Is she a doctor or "a doctor like Dr. Pepper's a doctor"?
Cjmi427
Posts: 26 Member
I went to see a new PCP to confirm that some symptoms I was having were anxiety related. She said they were and then suggested I try lifestyle changes before using medications. I don't want any meds unless I really need them, so that was good. However, then she started talking about how an important part of everyone's health is gut flora and that she recommends that everyone take a specific probiotic ($30 for a month's supply for 1 person) and cut out sugar and processed food. She added that she often recommends fish oil supplements and up to 10,000 IU of Vitamin D per day as well (we live in Michigan).
Some of this sounds a bit like quackery to me, but I'm unsure of how to find out if there are peer reviewed studies demonstrating that her recommendations are evidence based. Furthermore, I am concerned that she is recommending such expensive supplements that aren't covered by health insurance. It would cost our family an additional $240 a month if we all followed her suggestions! Not to mention the inconvenience of removing all sugar and processed food from our diets. We'd have to make some serious (to us) sacrifices to make that happen.
So, how would you go about fact checking what she's said?
Some of this sounds a bit like quackery to me, but I'm unsure of how to find out if there are peer reviewed studies demonstrating that her recommendations are evidence based. Furthermore, I am concerned that she is recommending such expensive supplements that aren't covered by health insurance. It would cost our family an additional $240 a month if we all followed her suggestions! Not to mention the inconvenience of removing all sugar and processed food from our diets. We'd have to make some serious (to us) sacrifices to make that happen.
So, how would you go about fact checking what she's said?
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Replies
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Vitamin D is pretty cheap and deficiencies are linked strongly to a host of physical and mental woes. I'd probably start there and with the fish oil, which is also cheap. Just for you, not the whole family.
I think probiotics are mostly a crock, but there is some intriguing, but limited evidence for the gut flora hypotheses.
Eating and being healthy doesn't require most people to take extensive supplements or give up sugar or all processed foods. But she might be looking at a way to help you achieve something that is good: higher fiber and lower salt than most people get (most western diets are fiber deficient).5 -
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First, can I saw that you quoted scrubs...
Vitamin D deficiency is a fairly common thing, but a blood test would show if you are deficient.3 -
Like others have said Vit D deficiency is common -- my doctor recommends that everyone here consider taking it in the winter, but I don't bother in the summer.
I'm concerned by the bit where you asked her if certain symptoms are anxiety-related and she said yes and started recommending supplements. Yes, they might be, although I'd want tests or something if you are concerned about them -- how does she know it's anxiety? Also, if it is anxiety, maybe pursue some therapy for that (which would indicate whether there's a need for me) or if the dietary approach is to be the answer a referral to a dietitian. For me, that would probably send me in search of a new PCP. Exercise and things like that are also non drug approaches to anxiety, but there's no quick "this is the answer" like it seems you got, typically.
That said, Vit D and fish oil won't hurt, and the D in particular might be worth trying.1 -
Do PCP's actually diagnose and treat anxiety disorders/issues? I didn't think they did. I could very well be wrong, and I'm sure someone will tell me if I am - this is MFP, after all. I would think she'd refer you to a specialist.0
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Dr. Pepper2
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Do PCP's actually diagnose and treat anxiety disorders/issues? I didn't think they did. I could very well be wrong, and I'm sure someone will tell me if I am - this is MFP, after all. I would think she'd refer you to a specialist.
I am already seeing a counselor for anxiety. I was having panic attack symptoms and wanted to make sure there was not another medical reason for them. These symptoms can also be caused by heart problems, blood sugar issues, thyroid issues, etc. From the blood test and ekg, she felt comfortable agreeing it is anxiety.First, can I saw that you quoted scrubs...
Vitamin D deficiency is a fairly common thing, but a blood test would show if you are deficient.
That line from Scrubs kept going through my head when she was talking1 -
Do PCP's actually diagnose and treat anxiety disorders/issues? I didn't think they did. I could very well be wrong, and I'm sure someone will tell me if I am - this is MFP, after all. I would think she'd refer you to a specialist.
I am already seeing a counselor for anxiety. I was having panic attack symptoms and wanted to make sure there was not another medical reason for them. These symptoms can also be caused by heart problems, blood sugar issues, thyroid issues, etc. From the blood test and ekg, she felt comfortable agreeing it is anxiety.First, can I saw that you quoted scrubs...
Vitamin D deficiency is a fairly common thing, but a blood test would show if you are deficient.
That line from Scrubs kept going through my head when she was talking
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on the scrubs
2. You can always modify your foods or try an elimination diet to see if there is any effect. Its what I had to do for my wife with all her issues.1 -
@lemurcat12, I did have tests run at a hospital because I felt like I was having a heart attack! She used their test results.
She did recommend continuing to go to my therapist. I didn't go to her for anxiety recommendations, but rather to confirm that I wasn't experiencing some other medical problem.2 -
Go look at examine.com. They do a good job collating study data on supplements. Look and see if the research sounds like they may be worth it to you. If nothing else, it's a good place to start.
On the Vitamin D. I'm going to assume you tested deficient, or low for someone with anxiety issues. You might want to try a full spectrum lamp rather than a supplement (figuring sun is not so available in the winter in Michigan). Over time it's definitely cheaper.1 -
I think the whole point of probiotics is to re-populate the gut with good bacteria. Once that is accomplished you don't need to take them anymore. I'd just take a round of them and then start eating fermented foods after that. Also figure out why you might be killing off your good flora in the first place. Are you stressed out?
Instead of fish oil, consider adding sardines to your diet. I think a tin of sardines (the one I buy anyway) has 1g of omega-3 which is plenty for the day. Fatty fish in general will meet your needs. They're also great sources of B12, selenium, and Vitamin D.
I'm surprised your doctor didn't recommend magnesium though since she is so supplement happy. If you experienced tachycardia but tests came back normal, it could be something as simple as not getting enough magnesium. You could take epsom salt baths, oral capsules, or just focus on eating more magnesium rich foods. I've been through the same ordeal with the rapid heart rate and panic attacks and it took a simple lifestyle and diet overhaul to correct it. Nothing too crazy and certainly not $240 a month. All the best to your health.
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The vitamin D thing worries me. From my own experience, I was deficient, but my Doc only recommended 5,000 IU a day. That brought my levels back up. Here's the kicker, alot of doctors aren't necessarily nutritionist. Doctors also don't know everything. It took a long time for me to find one I trusted. The UL for vitamin D is 4000 IU. So that's something to think about.
When in doubt get a 2nd opinion and don't bring up any thing first, just say you need some help and want to check if your are healthy.
My doctor also recommended fish oil, but fish oil and probiotics can be gotten cheaper that are just as effective. There are 3rd party tests for vitamins that rank quality and cost. I use LabDoor and ConsumerLab. USP verified can also be good, but if it's not it doesn't mean it's bad.1 -
I'd try another doctor. Even if she isn't a Dr. Pepper doctor it sounds like you don't have much confidence in her anyway. Why go to a doctor you think might be a quack? You wouldn't buy clothes that are too big because they might fit someday, so why go to a doctor that sends up your red flags? Doctors offer a service just like other businesses in the US. Until they really socialize medicine the power is in your hands as a consumer.
Oh, and for that probiotics business...I'm not sure, but my doctor recommended that if I wanted to take it to get the cheapest acidophilous one I could find.2 -
@lemurcat12, I did have tests run at a hospital because I felt like I was having a heart attack! She used their test results.
She did recommend continuing to go to my therapist. I didn't go to her for anxiety recommendations, but rather to confirm that I wasn't experiencing some other medical problem.
Ah, okay. I probably wouldn't add a bunch of supplements then.1 -
enterdanger wrote: »I'd try another doctor. Even if she isn't a Dr. Pepper doctor it sounds like you don't have much confidence in her anyway. Why go to a doctor you think might be a quack? You wouldn't buy clothes that are too big because they might fit someday, so why go to a doctor that sends up your red flags? Doctors offer a service just like other businesses in the US. Until they really socialize medicine the power is in your hands as a consumer.
Oh, and for that probiotics business...I'm not sure, but my doctor recommended that if I wanted to take it to get the cheapest acidophilous one I could find.
Yeah my opinion is that incorporating yogurts with live cultures is a better idea, but i like yogurt and dislike supplements in general1 -
My GI told me not to take probiotics lol3
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Have you eliminated caffeine and alcohol from your diet? Both will contribute to anxiety in many individuals.2
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http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/expert-answers/fish-oil-supplements/faq-20058143
Here's a Mayo Clinic article that says fish oil helps some people with depression.
If a doctor makes you uneasy for any reason, look into it and switch doctors. Also, you might ask this doctor some questions, like why such a high number for the Vitamin D.0 -
Do PCP's actually diagnose and treat anxiety disorders/issues? I didn't think they did. I could very well be wrong, and I'm sure someone will tell me if I am - this is MFP, after all. I would think she'd refer you to a specialist.
Many general practitioners will treat for less complicated mental health issues such as anxiety, depression, even ADHD. There are not really enough psychiatrists to go around. Here in rural Minnesota our local clinic's mental health department makes do with a clinical nurse (like a nurse practitioner but specializes in management of psychotropic medications) and a GP with a "special interest" in mental health.
I've never heard of a doctor who is willing to talk about 10,000 IU of vit. D without labwork to go with it.
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I take more Vit d than that a day. But I am always deficient. At one time I was taking prescription for it, 100,000 units twice a week.1
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@ketonekaren I'm working on the caffeine and will consider the alcohol if I don't see enough results.
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My doctor prescribed a very high dose of Vitamin D when blood work showed mine was extremely low. It was cheap. You can also buy cheaper Vit D, Fish Oil, and probiotics (or yogurt for that matter), a lot cheaper than $240/month!0
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10,000 is beyond the safe limit of Vit
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-Consumer/Yes, when amounts in the blood become too high. Signs of toxicity include nausea, vomiting, poor appetite, constipation, weakness, and weight loss. And by raising blood levels of calcium, too much vitamin D can cause confusion, disorientation, and problems with heart rhythm. Excess vitamin D can also damage the kidneys.
The upper limit for vitamin D is 1,000 to 1,500 IU/day for infants, 2,500 to 3,000 IU/day for children 1-8 years, and 4,000 IU/day for children 9 years and older, adults, and pregnant and lactating teens and women. Vitamin D toxicity almost always occurs from overuse of supplements. Excessive sun exposure doesn't cause vitamin D poisoning because the body limits the amount of this vitamin it produces.
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10,000 IU/day is a lot! I was prescribed 50,000 IU once a week for 2 months, then OTC 1,000 IU daily.0
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I take 5,000 IU a day for VitD3 , but I have lupus. It's on a doctor's order's, I was running exceptionally low VitD.0
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She knows her stuff. If you want to reduce inflammation in your body, and feel your best, I would follow her recommendations. Doesn't even need to be all at once. Ease into it. Start with the Vitamin D. There are lots of ways to get probiotics without having to spend $$$ on them. I regularly drink Kefir, mixed with frozen fruits. It's a fermented milk. Sauerkraut, and other home ferments can help you achieve that recommendation with little cost to you. I'm learning how to make healthier versions of the foods I love. One example is making my own fruit leathers and granola bars and cookies for my kid. I know what goes in. Not a bunch of chemicals and colorants like on that processed boxed crap.0
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I would be concerned about a doctor who makes the same recommendations to "everyone" or even "often" without apparently any reference to your specific situation. Did she mention any symptoms or medical conditions you have that make the probiotics or fish oil advisable? Surely the hospital test results would have included blood chemistry tests indicating whether or not you have a vitamin D deficiency, but from the OP's account, that wasn't mentioned either.
Every profession has people who aren't great at their jobs.0 -
I went to see a new PCP to confirm that some symptoms I was having were anxiety related. She said they were and then suggested I try lifestyle changes before using medications. I don't want any meds unless I really need them, so that was good. However, then she started talking about how an important part of everyone's health is gut flora and that she recommends that everyone take a specific probiotic ($30 for a month's supply for 1 person) and cut out sugar and processed food. She added that she often recommends fish oil supplements and up to 10,000 IU of Vitamin D per day as well (we live in Michigan).
Some of this sounds a bit like quackery to me, but I'm unsure of how to find out if there are peer reviewed studies demonstrating that her recommendations are evidence based. Furthermore, I am concerned that she is recommending such expensive supplements that aren't covered by health insurance. It would cost our family an additional $240 a month if we all followed her suggestions! Not to mention the inconvenience of removing all sugar and processed food from our diets. We'd have to make some serious (to us) sacrifices to make that happen.
So, how would you go about fact checking what she's said?
She's Dr Pepper alright!
Cochrane Reviews are the best. Strictly evidence-based meta-studies on health.
http://www.cochrane.org/evidence
Awesome medical blog on all things pseudoscience:
https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/
Another good site on supplements and nutrition:
https://examine.com/2
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