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To Hydrate or Not to Hydrate
Replies
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Stay hydrated. That doesn't mean you need to buy drinks to do that. Water falls from the sky.... It also comes out of facets.1
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Here is the ad on MFP that raised the question.
according to Tim Noakes, it was the Gatorade Scientific Institute that first promoted the idea that dehydration impaired performance and we should drink sports drinks.
From what I read, there is no good information regarding the 'electrolytes' lost as sweat.
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Thanks for all the info. Sorry I was not specific, I ment to refer to Sports Hydration Drinks...
The only time that I don't feel (personally) that water is adequate is when I'm running 3+ miles outside in high heat and humidity. If I drink just water, a lot of times I'll feel off the rest of the day. So I bought those mini 80 calorie gatorades and if I have one of those on top of my water after the run, it gives much better results. Any other time I just drink water (filtered from my tap) and am just fine.2 -
Okay. You need to understand how your mind and mucslces work. You have electrical impulses that send singals to your muslce to contract. And you have Electrical Impuses in your mind that trigger memory and "thought".
When you sweat you lose moisture through your skin. Your body is robbing yourself of water to keep your muscle cool.
And you need to replenish that moisture so your muscles and thought process and function propperly.
Now pure h2o, DM water, is a purely a insulator and will not allow those electrionic impulses to fire, so you need to dirty that water somehow so your mucles and thought process can keep working.
So you need some kind of electrolyte to replenish what you lose through sweat. This is where Gatorade, PowerAde, Nuun, Vega, Science in Sports, Pacific Labs and other come into play. Those drinks have Electrolytes to help your muscles and thought process work at the full peak.
I will agree to a point that Bottled Water manufacturers try to push their product for a profit. But the fact you need to stay hydrated is not a Big Business ideal.....2 -
Okay. You need to understand how your mind and mucslces work. You have electrical impulses that send singals to your muslce to contract. And you have Electrical Impuses in your mind that trigger memory and "thought".
When you sweat you lose moisture through your skin. Your body is robbing yourself of water to keep your muscle cool.
And you need to replenish that moisture so your muscles and thought process and function propperly.
Now pure h2o, DM water, is a purely a insulator and will not allow those electrionic impulses to fire, so you need to dirty that water somehow so your mucles and thought process can keep working.
So you need some kind of electrolyte to replenish what you lose through sweat. This is where Gatorade, PowerAde, Nuun, Vega, Science in Sports, Pacific Labs and other come into play. Those drinks have Electrolytes to help your muscles and thought process work at the full peak.
I will agree to a point that Bottled Water manufacturers try to push their product for a profit. But the fact you need to stay hydrated is not a Big Business ideal.....
do you need to stay hydrated DURING exercise? There is some evidence that being dehydrated during a race actually is an effective winning mechanism.
The body maintains a careful balance of sodium within the blood. It can store sodium to maintain that balance, so there is no real need to take in additional salt to replenish what is lost. The amount of electrolytes sports drinks give you is very very small but one thing they DO give you that WILL help your performance - CARBS.
Other than that, what are these 'electrolytes' we so desperately need?
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When you lose sweat you lose more than water....contains critical electrolytes to help replace what's lost in sweat.
Both true statements, both statements also have no context as regards intensity and duration of training or how much an individual sweats.
Also no mention that your hydration and electrolyte levels get replaced from ALL sources including your everyday drinks and food. It's just advertising a product not education.
I can't imagine any circumstance where a sports hydration drink would be relevant for my wife - she would expire before perspiring! She also never exercises more than an hour so doesn't need to think how to fuel that.
On the other hand I ride multi-hour cycle rides (longest 9 hours) and sweat heavily when exercising, the calories also help fuel my performance.
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I try to stay Generally Hydrated (drink water throughout the day, big glass of water after coffee or alcohol) but do not specifically hydrate to work out. The opposite, actually. I run when I get up, just dress, pee, go run. I do that fasted and before drinking anything, that works better for me. I sweat plenty, just have a glass of water when I get home.
I guess you live somewhere cooler if you think dehydration isn't a thing...it's a risk here, sends people to the first aid tent at outdoor shows very regularly. But there is enough water in the body to keep you going until you can drink some, in most situations.
On adding electrolytes, my mind isn't made up. I can see the benefit of making the water more available to the body somehow, I know we need these minerals, but I eat food, so it seems like I get enough salt and stuff, not really in danger of diluting myself that much.
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girlinahat wrote: »Okay. You need to understand how your mind and mucslces work. You have electrical impulses that send singals to your muslce to contract. And you have Electrical Impuses in your mind that trigger memory and "thought".
When you sweat you lose moisture through your skin. Your body is robbing yourself of water to keep your muscle cool.
And you need to replenish that moisture so your muscles and thought process and function propperly.
Now pure h2o, DM water, is a purely a insulator and will not allow those electrionic impulses to fire, so you need to dirty that water somehow so your mucles and thought process can keep working.
So you need some kind of electrolyte to replenish what you lose through sweat. This is where Gatorade, PowerAde, Nuun, Vega, Science in Sports, Pacific Labs and other come into play. Those drinks have Electrolytes to help your muscles and thought process work at the full peak.
I will agree to a point that Bottled Water manufacturers try to push their product for a profit. But the fact you need to stay hydrated is not a Big Business ideal.....
1) do you need to stay hydrated DURING exercise? There is some evidence that being dehydrated during a race actually is an effective winning mechanism.
The body maintains a careful balance of sodium within the blood. It can store sodium to maintain that balance, so there is no real need to take in additional salt to replenish what is lost. The amount of electrolytes sports drinks give you is very very small but one thing they DO give you that WILL help your performance - CARBS.
2) Other than that, what are these 'electrolytes' we so desperately need?
1) As someone who practices endurance Sports, in my opinion, Yes. I would advise of drinking water and some sort of electrolyte during long distance/higher time line sports. There are studies that show if you run, cycle, hike for more that 3 hours at a stretch w/o drinking [tap] water or some sort of "sports drink" you run a risk of dehydration.
You and I agree that there is a timeline where that line is drawn. I can run a 5K and not drink during the event. I can run a 10K and be "okay" at the end of the event w/o a drink. If i were to run a Half I do not think I could make it w/o some sort of sprots drink. And you and I agree that it's a person by person istance.
2) Moden Sports drinks have more that just Sodium for electrolytes. They use Soidum, Potassium, and Calcium as "Lytes". Potassium is known to help cardiovascular systems, and help prevent cramping. So I propose the question. If you were involved in a Crit race, Road race, or running race. Wouldn't you want your cardio system running at it's most effective condition, and try to ward away cramps?2 -
I guess you live somewhere cooler if you think dehydration isn't a thing...it's a risk here, sends people to the first aid tent at outdoor shows very regularly. But there is enough water in the body to keep you going until you can drink some, in most situations.
dehydration is very much a thing, but as far as I know no one has ever died during an athletic event because of it. Slowed down, needed to drink, yes. Is it an actual RISK to health? debatable. Generally the body responds to it by making the person thirsty way way before they suffer serious health issues. People die of dehydration in the desert, not in towns.
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girlinahat wrote: »Okay. You need to understand how your mind and mucslces work. You have electrical impulses that send singals to your muslce to contract. And you have Electrical Impuses in your mind that trigger memory and "thought".
When you sweat you lose moisture through your skin. Your body is robbing yourself of water to keep your muscle cool.
And you need to replenish that moisture so your muscles and thought process and function propperly.
Now pure h2o, DM water, is a purely a insulator and will not allow those electrionic impulses to fire, so you need to dirty that water somehow so your mucles and thought process can keep working.
So you need some kind of electrolyte to replenish what you lose through sweat. This is where Gatorade, PowerAde, Nuun, Vega, Science in Sports, Pacific Labs and other come into play. Those drinks have Electrolytes to help your muscles and thought process work at the full peak.
I will agree to a point that Bottled Water manufacturers try to push their product for a profit. But the fact you need to stay hydrated is not a Big Business ideal.....
1) do you need to stay hydrated DURING exercise? There is some evidence that being dehydrated during a race actually is an effective winning mechanism.
The body maintains a careful balance of sodium within the blood. It can store sodium to maintain that balance, so there is no real need to take in additional salt to replenish what is lost. The amount of electrolytes sports drinks give you is very very small but one thing they DO give you that WILL help your performance - CARBS.
2) Other than that, what are these 'electrolytes' we so desperately need?
1) As someone who practices endurance Sports, in my opinion, Yes. I would advise of drinking water and some sort of electrolyte during long distance/higher time line sports. There are studies that show if you run, cycle, hike for more that 3 hours at a stretch w/o drinking [tap] water or some sort of "sports drink" you run a risk of dehydration.
You and I agree that there is a timeline where that line is drawn. I can run a 5K and not drink during the event. I can run a 10K and be "okay" at the end of the event w/o a drink. If i were to run a Half I do not think I could make it w/o some sort of sprots drink. And you and I agree that it's a person by person istance.
2) Moden Sports drinks have more that just Sodium for electrolytes. They use Soidum, Potassium, and Calcium as "Lytes". Potassium is known to help cardiovascular systems, and help prevent cramping. So I propose the question. If you were involved in a Crit race, Road race, or running race. Wouldn't you want your cardio system running at it's most effective condition, and try to ward away cramps?
1) There are two questions here. How badly do we get dehydrated during sports and how bad is it for a person to get dehydrated. Is being dehydrated during an event a risk to health other than making a person thirsty? Is the famed 2% dehydration a real figure? Yes, there are studies that show that running for more than 3/4 hours without drinking will dehydrate you, but just because we are dehydrated is there actually evidence that this causes real harm? Elite athletes run very well despite being dehydrated and losing body weight, and don't tend to consume much in the way of fluids during a race. Again, how dangerous is dehydration?
2) My understanding is that no one really knows what causes cramps, and that they may well be a simple nerve response to some form of stressor. Whether any form of electrolyte in the small quantity given in sports drinks helps is perhaps unproven.
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girlinahat wrote: »girlinahat wrote: »Okay. You need to understand how your mind and mucslces work. You have electrical impulses that send singals to your muslce to contract. And you have Electrical Impuses in your mind that trigger memory and "thought".
When you sweat you lose moisture through your skin. Your body is robbing yourself of water to keep your muscle cool.
And you need to replenish that moisture so your muscles and thought process and function propperly.
Now pure h2o, DM water, is a purely a insulator and will not allow those electrionic impulses to fire, so you need to dirty that water somehow so your mucles and thought process can keep working.
So you need some kind of electrolyte to replenish what you lose through sweat. This is where Gatorade, PowerAde, Nuun, Vega, Science in Sports, Pacific Labs and other come into play. Those drinks have Electrolytes to help your muscles and thought process work at the full peak.
I will agree to a point that Bottled Water manufacturers try to push their product for a profit. But the fact you need to stay hydrated is not a Big Business ideal.....
1) do you need to stay hydrated DURING exercise? There is some evidence that being dehydrated during a race actually is an effective winning mechanism.
The body maintains a careful balance of sodium within the blood. It can store sodium to maintain that balance, so there is no real need to take in additional salt to replenish what is lost. The amount of electrolytes sports drinks give you is very very small but one thing they DO give you that WILL help your performance - CARBS.
2) Other than that, what are these 'electrolytes' we so desperately need?
1) As someone who practices endurance Sports, in my opinion, Yes. I would advise of drinking water and some sort of electrolyte during long distance/higher time line sports. There are studies that show if you run, cycle, hike for more that 3 hours at a stretch w/o drinking [tap] water or some sort of "sports drink" you run a risk of dehydration.
You and I agree that there is a timeline where that line is drawn. I can run a 5K and not drink during the event. I can run a 10K and be "okay" at the end of the event w/o a drink. If i were to run a Half I do not think I could make it w/o some sort of sprots drink. And you and I agree that it's a person by person istance.
2) Moden Sports drinks have more that just Sodium for electrolytes. They use Soidum, Potassium, and Calcium as "Lytes". Potassium is known to help cardiovascular systems, and help prevent cramping. So I propose the question. If you were involved in a Crit race, Road race, or running race. Wouldn't you want your cardio system running at it's most effective condition, and try to ward away cramps?
1) There are two questions here. How badly do we get dehydrated during sports and how bad is it for a person to get dehydrated. Is being dehydrated during an event a risk to health other than making a person thirsty? Is the famed 2% dehydration a real figure? Yes, there are studies that show that running for more than 3/4 hours without drinking will dehydrate you, but just because we are dehydrated is there actually evidence that this causes real harm? Elite athletes run very well despite being dehydrated and losing body weight, and don't tend to consume much in the way of fluids during a race. Again, how dangerous is dehydration?
2) My understanding is that no one really knows what causes cramps, and that they may well be a simple nerve response to some form of stressor. Whether any form of electrolyte in the small quantity given in sports drinks helps is perhaps unproven.
1) You're talking about Elite Athletes. People who have trained their entire life, and people who have conditioned their bodies to those extremes. Not Average Joe people who are running and cycling for weight loss and generate health benefits associated with it..... How sever do you want to go? Vomiting? Diarrhoea? Fainting? Stroke? Death? When you're not accustom to it, you're mixing apples and oranges. Same reason the Average Joe doesn't go deep see diving or climb Mt Everest with training and preparation.
2) I will agree with you to a degree. Most Sport Medical Professions will credit dehydration as the number one cause for cramps, during sporting events. And potassium has been known to help relieve/prevent those cramps from happening. Now if that's from the water you're drinking or the potassium that's in your drink, who really knows. I've not researched it that far to determine which one does more.1 -
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1) You're talking about Elite Athletes. People who have trained their entire life, and people who have conditioned their bodies to those extremes. Not Average Joe people who are running and cycling for weight loss and generate health benefits associated with it..... How sever do you want to go? Vomiting? Diarrhoea? Fainting? Stroke? Death? When you're not accustom to it, you're mixing apples and oranges. Same reason the Average Joe doesn't go deep see diving or climb Mt Everest with training and preparation.
Vomiting and diarrhoea are not listed ANYWHERE I can see as symptoms of dehydration. CAUSES, certainly. Not symptoms. Cramps aren't listed either. From the Mayo Clinic:
Mild to moderate dehydration is likely to cause:
Dry, sticky mouth
Sleepiness or tiredness — children are likely to be less active than usual
Thirst
Decreased urine output
No wet diapers for three hours for infants
Few or no tears when crying
Dry skin
Headache
Constipation
Dizziness or lightheadedness
Severe dehydration, a medical emergency, can cause:
Extreme thirst
Extreme fussiness or sleepiness in infants and children; irritability and confusion in adults
Very dry mouth, skin and mucous membranes
Little or no urination — any urine that is produced will be darker than normal
Sunken eyes
Shriveled and dry skin that lacks elasticity and doesn't "bounce back" when pinched into a fold
In infants, sunken fontanels — the soft spots on the top of a baby's head
Low blood pressure
Rapid heartbeat
Rapid breathing
No tears when crying
Fever
In the most serious cases, delirium or unconsciousness
It is highly unlikely that any athlete, elite or otherwise, would get to a state of dehydration severe enough to cause death. I'm not saying a person shouldn't drink during activity, but that the risks of NOT drinking enough are greatly exaggerated. The average person does not need a sports drink.
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I never contested that.girlinahat wrote: »The average person does not need a sports drink.
In fact if you read my statement earlier and I quote1) As someone who practices endurance Sports, in my opinion, Yes. I would advise of drinking water and some sort of electrolyte during long distance/higher time line sports.There are studies that show if you run, cycle, hike for more that 3 hours at a stretch w/o drinking [tap] water or some sort of "sports drink" you run a risk of dehydration.
I even mention drinking water "or" a sports drinking I never once said it is required/mandatory to drink a sports drink. IE: Gatorade, PowerAde, Nuun, Vega, SIS.
I said those types of drinks will help replenish electrolytes you lose through sweating. I never said it was the only place to get them.
If you're looking for sodium replenishment you can get hat from Crackers. If you're looking for potassium Bananas and Kiwis are a great place to start..... I fully understand there is more than one way to skin a cat. . .0 -
I appreciate that, but the original enquiry was in relation to using sports drinks, and my comment that they were unnecessary related to that.
I totally agree that replenishment can come from food, although I don't think you mentioned that before. what I was mostly trying to make clear was that dehydration isn't necessarily the demon it is made out to be. uncomfortable, yes, but in the absence of actually disease (such as cholera) or lack of water available unlikely to kill you. I wouldn't recommend running with cholera.1 -
girlinahat wrote: »I appreciate that, but the original enquiry was in relation to using sports drinks, and my comment that they were unnecessary related to that.
I totally agree that replenishment can come from food, although I don't think you mentioned that before. what I was mostly trying to make clear was that dehydration isn't necessarily the demon it is made out to be. uncomfortable, yes, but in the absence of actually disease (such as cholera) or lack of water available unlikely to kill you. I wouldn't recommend running with cholera.
I did not mention food because the op was talking about hydration. Not specifically electrolytes and Hydration.I've heard that it is just big business telling us to hydrate all the time so they can make a buck, when all that is really needed is to just follow your body's que and just drink when thirsty. Any thoughts?
My underlining statement is. Stay hydrated, and if your going to be out for a long time. Use something with electrolytes. Either solid or liquid.
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I try to stay Generally Hydrated (drink water throughout the day, big glass of water after coffee or alcohol) but do not specifically hydrate to work out. The opposite, actually. I run when I get up, just dress, pee, go run. I do that fasted and before drinking anything, that works better for me. I sweat plenty, just have a glass of water when I get home.
I guess you live somewhere cooler if you think dehydration isn't a thing...it's a risk here, sends people to the first aid tent at outdoor shows very regularly. But there is enough water in the body to keep you going until you can drink some, in most situations.
On adding electrolytes, my mind isn't made up. I can see the benefit of making the water more available to the body somehow, I know we need these minerals, but I eat food, so it seems like I get enough salt and stuff, not really in danger of diluting myself that much.
The only workout I try to make sure I hydrate for throughout the day is spin classes. 5 minutes in and I'm sweating my behind off, so I try to counter that a little by drinking an extra 16oz of water/unsweetened tea during the day. Not sure how much it helps b/c I end up just peeing an extra time or two before the class, but it makes me feel better about the ride, so it's probably more of a psychological thing than anything else.0 -
Most days I don't need anything more than water (and food) but there are days when I drink glass after glass after glass of water and it seems to go through me without being absorbed. Those days, I drink a couple Nuun tabs and I stop being thirsty before long. Those days are always very hot (> 85 F which is a lot here) and they're always days I work at a high intensity (like hill repeats at race pace). I can feel it when I need it, and it makes a huge difference.
I also tend to allow myself to get slightly dehydrated while I exercise. I've been doing that for years and there's no ill effect (that I can tell) as long as I don't let it get too bad. But I feel worse when I do this, and my performance is definitely affected. You can see my heart rate go up and/or my power output go down.0 -
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Enjoy your kidney stones2
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I'm not sure how drinking water is big business. I usually drink tap water in a refillable water bottle. Water bottle was about 6 bucks I think but I've had it for years, and water is free.
I tend to have a lot more energy and feel better about myself when well hydrated.0 -
Hydrate. I don't want to resemble a tired prune, thanks.
I don't use some arbitrary amount of water.
If my pee is straw colored-clear, I am hydrated enough. I also go by thirst. If I am so thirsty that I am drinking so much water, I reach for electrolytes instead of guzzling too much water.2 -
I tried following my bodies que and was horribly under hydrated. I know some folks pay better attention but just for my self I would end up going all day with nothing to drink after my morning coffee until dinner if I didn't make a point to remember to drink. So really it depends on the person. If you don't feel thirsty you may not drink enough even if you need to.2
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Staying hydrated is important.
Water has many important jobs, such as:- carrying nutrients and oxygen to your cells
- flushing bacteria from your bladder
- aiding digestion
- preventing constipation
- normalizing blood pressure
- stabilizing the heartbeat
- cushioning joints
- protecting organs and tissues
- regulating body temperature
- maintaining electrolyte (sodium) balance.
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I'm a teacher so I can't hydrate too well because I can only manage to get to the bathroom a few times in the afternoon. Teacher life is a struggle!1
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Water is free.0
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trigden1991 wrote: »Water is free.
if only that were true.1 -
I am terrible at drinking throughout the day. Especially water! One of my kidney scores at my physical was one point out of the average range. My mom and younger brother both had stage 3 kidney disease. I feel that I MUST target hydration for my health. I do walk/run and lift and am now 69 yrs old. Started New Year off with hydration goal and have LIVED in the bathroom all day. Had 48 oz of water in addition to AM coffee. Really hope I can stick with this as I can not rely on my thirst sensor!0
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santoinetteberger wrote: »I am terrible at drinking throughout the day. Especially water! One of my kidney scores at my physical was one point out of the average range. My mom and younger brother both had stage 3 kidney disease. I feel that I MUST target hydration for my health. I do walk/run and lift and am now 69 yrs old. Started New Year off with hydration goal and have LIVED in the bathroom all day. Had 48 oz of water in addition to AM coffee. Really hope I can stick with this as I can not rely on my thirst sensor!
Consider phasing in the increased intake. We can also train our system toward higher capacity (less frequent urination with increased hydration), but gradual increases are more likely to facilitate that than a sudden big jump. Also, per my urologist and pelvic floor PT, avoid going "just in case", defer urination if you can without incident.0
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