**Help!!! PROTEIN macro help needed!!! From high protein eaters!!!
Replies
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sunnybeaches105 wrote: »You probably only need about 0.8 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight. I'm not saying it's not possible that more couldn't help (I use 1 gram per pound of bodyweight while dieting), but if you're having trouble hitting that goal then back off. As for it affecting weight loss, it is unlikely. I'm guessing you're pretty petite? How much per week are you targeting? Keep in mind that if you're smaller/petite that much of your weight loss per week can be easily masked by water weight fluctuations. At 197-198 pounds I vary by as much as 5 pounds a day. Be patient.
I'd have to agree, for a woman 1g/lb might be a bit much. Still, might not hurt, but might not gain you any more than what is being suggested by sunnybeaches105. Also, keep in mind that the usual recommendation for building muscle is 1g/lb of lean body mass, not necessarily body weight unless you have almost no fat on your body. Figure out your lean body mass, and adjust accordingly and see if that helps. Beyond that, unless you are in a calorie surplus, even a slight one, the extra protein will likely help keep your muscle mass, but won't help you gain it very fast (not while in a deficit). Also, more protein will require more fiber and more water intake for your body to process it. Watch the fiber intake, and make sure you are getting enough water. I was able (most people will argue) to gain quite a bit of muscle in a deficit by eating more protein and working out consistently; my body was burning fat on top of the protein I was consuming and allowed me to gain some muscle (some call it newbie gains). I never got 'big' but muscle definition is certainly much more than it was. Now that I'm in maintenance I have not changed my protein intake (I eat even more protein than you do a day) and I am still slowly gaining muscle. But again, because I am not in surplus I am not gaining very fast, and most of my fat stores are now gone so there's no help there.3 -
lilac_bunny wrote: »I feel like that proves my point. How many people who read this would be classed as athletes? I don't know loads about nutrition but the dietitian I work with gave me the riot act when I told her I was going on a diet how bad eating high levels of protein over a sustained period can be. She has a PhD so I tend to believe her. I feel like it's unsafe to just say there is no maximum amount without qualifying or explaining that.
That said I can't imagine how that much protein could be costumed daily, I don't get close haha
Pending the OP has good kidneys and drinks plenty of water, there shouldn't be an issue (as discussed in here).
Also, taking into consideration, the OP's goal, 1.5 to 2.2g per kg of body mass, it not excessive or unreasonable. In fact, higher levels of protein will provide greater results as compared to lowering protein. So if anything, I would ask your training to quantify what is constituting as too much protein. Also, to note, that excessive protein will just convert to glucose (the body's energy source) through glucenogenesis. For even more information on protein, but is a great thread with one of the leading researchers in nutrient and fitness.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1158604/eric-helms-protein-research
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You would be surprised how many athletes are on this forum we just don't belong to an advertised team on TV.0
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under one gram per lb for novice . I agree with Lilac. My pops is a physician and i had the same convo. He was miffed at me for how I was planning my macros and cal intake. I'm in relatively good shape for an old guy but clearly not an athlete. short term high protein I think is fine. Long term...not so much. Trying to eat in a manner of remaining in an anabolic state most of the day is likely the best choice for best results.
Also not to be gross I had significant constipation when I was at 200 grams a day no matter how much water,fiber and fats I added, but my regular is fairly irregular even with my old eating habits so the high protein just exaggerated an already unusual body process. .1 -
How are your bowels with the increased protein? What kind of protein? Are you still regular? The one pound could be that.0
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lilac_bunny wrote: »I feel like that proves my point. How many people who read this would be classed as athletes? I don't know loads about nutrition but the dietitian I work with gave me the riot act when I told her I was going on a diet how bad eating high levels of protein over a sustained period can be. She has a PhD so I tend to believe her. I feel like it's unsafe to just say there is no maximum amount without qualifying or explaining that.
That said I can't imagine how that much protein could be costumed daily, I don't get close haha
Put ten dietitions in ten different rooms with the goal of writing the perfect diet for one person they will all be different. Learn what fit people eat and what they do on a daily basis you will be better off then listening to someone who doesn't live the lifestyle. My x wife is triple board certified Doctor she is Fat and feeds my kids crap so they are chunky beautiful wonderful kids but out of shape (work in progress).. A degree is a great accomplishment but unless you love the lifestyle I question if your any good at what you do because you have to love something to truly be good at it.3 -
I get the living the lifestyle comment as well, but Im pretty sure most studies show under 1g per lb of body weight is sufficient even in elite status. Also I chuckled at some of your other comments. while it wasnt funny you painted it in a funny light.1
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I get the living the lifestyle comment as well, but Im pretty sure most studies show under 1g per lb of body weight is sufficient even in elite status. Also I chuckled at some of your other comments. while it wasnt funny you painted it in a funny light.
They show that if you are maintaining. If you are in a deficit, or working to build muscle higher levels of protein is beneficial. Additionally, NO ONE in this thread is telling the OP to eat 200g a day and many recommended .8-1g lb of lbm. But there is a lot of debate by researchers (which hold more credibility than physicians) if there are upper limits on protein and if increase protein causes kidney damaged. The links I provided support that. But in the context of the OP's current short term goals, 1.5-2.2g per kg of body weight is beneficial.1 -
So I recently increased my protein intake to 150g, on a 1480 eating plan, I weigh 156. I lift around 4-5 times a week. The scale has NOT moved. Any other time, a daily deficit for me yields daily losses. For one week consistently, I have stayed at 156.6- my goal is to lose fat and increase muscle, but I'm not sure if I should decrease protein, or decrease caloric intake. 1200 calories is very steep to adhere to. Any suggestions on macros and calorie count??? And for clarity and honesty, my eating is between 1480 to 1650, with a daily deficit from exercise.
Cardio + calorie deficit = losing weight
Lifting + HIIT + maintenance or surplus = gaining muscle and strength (which is also = gaining weight)
Make sense? Not sure of your height but if you feel you have a lot of fat to lose, you may want to focus on eating at a deficit while incorporating cardio into your lifting regimen in order to keep muscle mass while also losing fat. If you are happy with your size and just want more muscle, you can continue on the routine you are doing. Lift heavier, go hard when you are the gym and push your limits. This will in turn decrease BF% but will not decrease your weight per se. I started lifting at 107 lbs. 26% BF. I'm now 115-117 lbs. 21% BF because muscle weighs more than fat.2 -
I get the living the lifestyle comment as well, but Im pretty sure most studies show under 1g per lb of body weight is sufficient even in elite status. Also I chuckled at some of your other comments. while it wasnt funny you painted it in a funny light.
We agree 100% 1g of protein is the maximum a human can process for muscle gain without steroids. My Point is that after that point just because the human body isn't capable of processing protein for muscle gain doesn't mean that the calories aren't needed to maintain a certain weight and that they can come from protein rich foods that would exceed 720 calories a day.
180 x 4 calories= 720 calories
THE ROCKS DIET_
DWAYNE JOHNSON'S DIET
Meal 1
10 oz cod
2 whole eggs
2 cups oatmeal
Meal 2
8 oz cod
12 oz sweet potato
1 cup veggies
Meal 3
8 oz chicken
2 cups white rice
1 cup veggies
Meal 4
8 oz cod
2 cups rice
1 cup veggies
1 tbsp fish oil
Meal 5
8 oz steak
12 oz baked potato
spinach salad
Meal 6
10 oz cod
2 cups rice
salad
Meal 7
30 grams casein protein
10 egg-white omelet
1 cup veggies (onions, peppers, mushrooms)
1 tbsp omega-3 fish oil0 -
I get the living the lifestyle comment as well, but Im pretty sure most studies show under 1g per lb of body weight is sufficient even in elite status. Also I chuckled at some of your other comments. while it wasnt funny you painted it in a funny light.
Give this a read if you're interested in looking into the details on what we know about protein intake. It delves into why earlier studies on the subject underestimated our needs, and the authors conclude that, "in practice, we suggest 1.5–2.2 g/(kg·day) of a variety of high-quality proteins." This is along the lines of the general advice we are seeing of 0.8 grams per pound of body weight. Note the ranges used in some of these studies do suggest that some atheletes may require more. I'm not pretending to be an expert in this area, but it has given me pause on reducing protein intake and it's consitent with my own personal experience that I lose muscle mass in a cut if I don't get at least around 180 grams a day. I get that some old school bodybuilders were pushing well in excess of that amount, but from what I can tell the RDA and lower-end recommendations seem well below what the current evidence regarding optimal intake is showing. I think the most important part of this piece FOR ME (and several studies I've read) is to not hesitate to experiment with my own needs because there isn't a "magic" amount that is optimall for all people. Given that there appears to be a very low risk with high protein intakes, I don't see an issue with getting a little more than necessary if that covers all bases and helps with satiety.
http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/pdfplus/10.1139/apnm-2015-0549
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I don't understand why you need 150g of protein while eating only 1480 calories.1
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littlechiaseed wrote: »I don't understand why you need 150g of protein while eating only 1480 calories.
Well you have to look at what people's goal are, their training requirements, and the body composition. 150g may be a little excessive, and 1480 may not even be a good number consider the OP seems to want to recomp. But based on the studies posted above, 1.5 - 2.2g/kg of body weight is not unreasonable and has not shown to have any adverse effects.0 -
cgreen120288 wrote: »Literally just posted this in another thread. Thought id copy and paste here as its applicable here too.
1. Calculate a rough calorie/macronutrient breakdown using IIFYM Calculator - a 500 calorie deficit is great. So if you maintain at 2500 calories, eat 2000.
0.8g-1g of protein per lb, 0.33-0.45g fat per lb, rest into carbs is a good starting place.
2. Count your calories/macronutrients at Free Calorie Counter, Diet & Exercise Journal | MyFitnessPal.com - weigh your foods, account for everything including cooking oils, beverages etc.
3. Follow a weight training program (Yes! Women too, this does not make you look bulky, this is a silly misconception/myth). StrongLifts 5x5, ICF 5x5, Starting Strength - but for females obviously the progression will be slower in terms of strength so progress 50% slower each time. Example: If it says add 5lbs - add 2.5 instead.
4. Don't think you have to train 4-6x a week. 3 is plenty and gives you plenty of time to enjoy lifes pleasures and not burn yourself out fast. Cardio is OPTIONAL and not something you need to do, however for health benefits I'd recommend a little cardio 2-3x a week at a low/moderate intensity for 30-60 minutes.
5. Realise you don't need to give up your favourite foods, this is one that kills people fast - they think they need to eat "clean" and give up all their favourite foods. Obviously, a wholefood nutritious diet is what we want, but you can definitely still fit some of your favourite foods in each day without a problem. Ensure you get plenty of vegetables and a little fruit.
6. Weigh yourself but don't fret over it. Fitbit Official Site for Activity Trackers & More and TrendWeight is two places you can track your weight (daily). You enter it in fitbit and it displays on a graph at trendweight and shows you what weight loss/gain you are having - this gives you peace of mind. If you don't want to weigh daily - just weigh once every 1-2 weeks on the same day in the mornings after using the bathroom and hopefully within a few weeks you'll notice a downward trend.
7. The mirror is your friend, absolutely. This and measurements can be a great way (often better than the scale) to gauge progress. I advise you do all these steps.
8. Remember its a marathon, not a sprint, enjoy the journey.
Awesome advice, thanks so much! I have learned to be more lenient and still have great results!!1 -
Michael190lbs wrote: »I get the living the lifestyle comment as well, but Im pretty sure most studies show under 1g per lb of body weight is sufficient even in elite status. Also I chuckled at some of your other comments. while it wasnt funny you painted it in a funny light.
We agree 100% 1g of protein is the maximum a human can process for muscle gain without steroids. My Point is that after that point just because the human body isn't capable of processing protein for muscle gain doesn't mean that the calories aren't needed to maintain a certain weight and that they can come from protein rich foods that would exceed 720 calories a day.
180 x 4 calories= 720 calories
THE ROCKS DIET_
DWAYNE JOHNSON'S DIET
Meal 1
10 oz cod
2 whole eggs
2 cups oatmeal
Meal 2
8 oz cod
12 oz sweet potato
1 cup veggies
Meal 3
8 oz chicken
2 cups white rice
1 cup veggies
Meal 4
8 oz cod
2 cups rice
1 cup veggies
1 tbsp fish oil
Meal 5
8 oz steak
12 oz baked potato
spinach salad
Meal 6
10 oz cod
2 cups rice
salad
Meal 7
30 grams casein protein
10 egg-white omelet
1 cup veggies (onions, peppers, mushrooms)
1 tbsp omega-3 fish oil
I agree! If calories in vs calories out are the goal, why not fill in my calories with protein to prevent muscle wasting on my deficit?! Of course I wrote the post lol because I am NO expert in this field at all.0 -
All of the advice has been EXTREMELY HELPFUL!!! I ended up backing my protein to around 118 daily, sometimes higher, but never lower than 100g. Still eating from 1400-1600 a day (mind you in I get a 500 calorie workout in, I eat those 500). I want to minimize muscle loss while being in a deficit. I only weigh weekly, and have lost 1 lb per week to the T the past 6 weeks!!! My muscles are slowly becoming more defined. I now do body fat measurements monthly as a more accurate indicator of progress. I have learned to "enjoy the process". I love the new foods, protein bars rock, and my boyfriend loves that I have protein and shaker bottles like him
You guys are an awesome community!!! 1 -
oh yeah and I am doing 3 day/full body and LOVE IT!0
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peaceout_aly wrote: »So I recently increased my protein intake to 150g, on a 1480 eating plan, I weigh 156. I lift around 4-5 times a week. The scale has NOT moved. Any other time, a daily deficit for me yields daily losses. For one week consistently, I have stayed at 156.6- my goal is to lose fat and increase muscle, but I'm not sure if I should decrease protein, or decrease caloric intake. 1200 calories is very steep to adhere to. Any suggestions on macros and calorie count??? And for clarity and honesty, my eating is between 1480 to 1650, with a daily deficit from exercise.
Cardio + calorie deficit = losing weight
Lifting + HIIT + maintenance or surplus = gaining muscle and strength (which is also = gaining weight)
Make sense? Not sure of your height but if you feel you have a lot of fat to lose, you may want to focus on eating at a deficit while incorporating cardio into your lifting regimen in order to keep muscle mass while also losing fat. If you are happy with your size and just want more muscle, you can continue on the routine you are doing. Lift heavier, go hard when you are the gym and push your limits. This will in turn decrease BF% but will not decrease your weight per se. I started lifting at 107 lbs. 26% BF. I'm now 115-117 lbs. 21% BF because muscle weighs more than fat.
You look incredible! Thank you!0 -
Remember muscle weighs more than fat so the scale may not go down it may increase. You should pay attention to how your body looks by taking pics of your transformation, waist to hip ratio, measurements, and how your clothes fit. The scale can be deceiving don't let it be the only measurement of your body changes.1
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zbobbsemple wrote: »Remember muscle weighs more than fat so the scale may not go down it may increase. You should pay attention to how your body looks by taking pics of your transformation, waist to hip ratio, measurements, and how your clothes fit. The scale can be deceiving don't let it be the only measurement of your body changes.
You body will not create new muscle at the pace it can lose fat. Even in a surplus, women would be lucky to gain 1/4 lb per week. Fat loss is much greater than that. If the scale isn't moving, there are many things that can affect it; glycogen storage, sodium, water retention from lifting, TOM, etc.. But it's going to be new muscle growth offsetting fat loss. Unless you are taking anabolic steroids.0 -
zbobbsemple wrote: »Remember muscle weighs more than fat so the scale may not go down it may increase. You should pay attention to how your body looks by taking pics of your transformation, waist to hip ratio, measurements, and how your clothes fit. The scale can be deceiving don't let it be the only measurement of your body changes.
You body will not create new muscle at the pace it can lose fat. Even in a surplus, women would be lucky to gain 1/4 lb per week. Fat loss is much greater than that. If the scale isn't moving, there are many things that can affect it; glycogen storage, sodium, water retention from lifting, TOM, etc.. But it's going to be new muscle growth offsetting fat loss. Unless you are taking anabolic steroids.
No, no steroids for me! I'm happy with my results thus far. Even though I weigh more than I did before my birthday, I look better now. So I can definitely tell that the weight lifting is playing a huge part!0
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