What is 'clean' eating??
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »katthouse499 wrote: »I am food sensitive !! I don't break down some things. To me clean eating is eating anything that isn't man made or comes in a box with any type of additives
What isn't man-made that you can find in a grocery store?
Fish
....yeah okay that is actually true, hadn't thought of that one. The vast vast majority though are agricultural products or processed foods.
Which mostly aren't man-made. Man grows an apple, he doesn't make the apple.
Apples are pretty much man made. Doesn't matter if they grow, they were shaped by us...they wouldn't exist without us. There is nothing in nature that resembles or tastes like something like a Gala apple. The natural version is nothing like what we have in a store.
A metal object is made by pouring liquid metal into a mold, the liquid and solidification follow natural laws but yet no one would argue that it isn't man made nor would you ever see its like in nature without human intervention. An agricultural product is formed by a molding process over centuries...the proccesses follow natural laws but yet the product is something you would never see in nature without human intervention. Yet people call that natural. That always confused me.
Why would a plant in nature produce hundreds of giant sugar orbs with tiny seeds only to die shortly thereafter or no longer be able to produce. We engineered that into them, they are products. That doesn't mean they are bad but I don't understand the purpose of denying that fact.
Fish I agree though, the fish we consume are gathered from a natural enviorment (unless you are talking like farmed salmon).
When a man pours the ingredients of an apple into a mold and makes an apple, I'll believe it's man-made. Until then it will always be man-manipulated to me.
Okay what is the difference between man made and man manipulated? Is it a distinction between organic and non-organic materials? Because the properties of the metal, the liquid state, the liquid dynamics, the solidification and crystalization....all of that are natural, we just manipulate it to form what we want. As a molecular biologist I guess I don't really view life as being all that different. We manipulate it to form what we want. To me, both are man made or...if we want to change word choice...both are man-manipulated.
Both rely on our intential use of natural processes to create a product that we want.
The difference is that I don't believe man can make an apple, period.
Your examples seem more like the difference in making a baked apple and making an apple. Man can make a baked apple.
Apples, as we know them, are the result of human intervention. Most domesticated fruits are significantly altered from their "natural" counterparts.2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »katthouse499 wrote: »I am food sensitive !! I don't break down some things. To me clean eating is eating anything that isn't man made or comes in a box with any type of additives
What isn't man-made that you can find in a grocery store?
Fish
....yeah okay that is actually true, hadn't thought of that one. The vast vast majority though are agricultural products or processed foods.
Which mostly aren't man-made. Man grows an apple, he doesn't make the apple.
Apples are pretty much man made. Doesn't matter if they grow, they were shaped by us...they wouldn't exist without us. There is nothing in nature that resembles or tastes like something like a Gala apple. The natural version is nothing like what we have in a store.
A metal object is made by pouring liquid metal into a mold, the liquid and solidification follow natural laws but yet no one would argue that it isn't man made nor would you ever see its like in nature without human intervention. An agricultural product is formed by a molding process over centuries...the proccesses follow natural laws but yet the product is something you would never see in nature without human intervention. Yet people call that natural. That always confused me.
Why would a plant in nature produce hundreds of giant sugar orbs with tiny seeds only to die shortly thereafter or no longer be able to produce. We engineered that into them, they are products. That doesn't mean they are bad but I don't understand the purpose of denying that fact.
Fish I agree though, the fish we consume are gathered from a natural enviorment (unless you are talking like farmed salmon).
When a man pours the ingredients of an apple into a mold and makes an apple, I'll believe it's man-made. Until then it will always be man-manipulated to me.
Okay what is the difference between man made and man manipulated? Is it a distinction between organic and non-organic materials? Because the properties of the metal, the liquid state, the liquid dynamics, the solidification and crystalization....all of that are natural, we just manipulate it to form what we want. As a molecular biologist I guess I don't really view life as being all that different. We manipulate it to form what we want. To me, both are man made or...if we want to change word choice...both are man-manipulated.
Both rely on our intential use of natural processes to create a product that we want.
The difference is that I don't believe man can make an apple, period.
Your examples seem more like the difference in making a baked apple and making an apple. Man can make a baked apple.
Apples, as we know them, are the result of human intervention. Most domesticated fruits are significantly altered from their "natural" counterparts.
Yes, I know.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »katthouse499 wrote: »I am food sensitive !! I don't break down some things. To me clean eating is eating anything that isn't man made or comes in a box with any type of additives
What isn't man-made that you can find in a grocery store?
Fish
....yeah okay that is actually true, hadn't thought of that one. The vast vast majority though are agricultural products or processed foods.
Which mostly aren't man-made. Man grows an apple, he doesn't make the apple.
Apples are pretty much man made. Doesn't matter if they grow, they were shaped by us...they wouldn't exist without us. There is nothing in nature that resembles or tastes like something like a Gala apple. The natural version is nothing like what we have in a store.
A metal object is made by pouring liquid metal into a mold, the liquid and solidification follow natural laws but yet no one would argue that it isn't man made nor would you ever see its like in nature without human intervention. An agricultural product is formed by a molding process over centuries...the proccesses follow natural laws but yet the product is something you would never see in nature without human intervention. Yet people call that natural. That always confused me.
Why would a plant in nature produce hundreds of giant sugar orbs with tiny seeds only to die shortly thereafter or no longer be able to produce. We engineered that into them, they are products. That doesn't mean they are bad but I don't understand the purpose of denying that fact.
Fish I agree though, the fish we consume are gathered from a natural enviorment (unless you are talking like farmed salmon).
When a man pours the ingredients of an apple into a mold and makes an apple, I'll believe it's man-made. Until then it will always be man-manipulated to me.
Okay what is the difference between man made and man manipulated? Is it a distinction between organic and non-organic materials? Because the properties of the metal, the liquid state, the liquid dynamics, the solidification and crystalization....all of that are natural, we just manipulate it to form what we want. As a molecular biologist I guess I don't really view life as being all that different. We manipulate it to form what we want. To me, both are man made or...if we want to change word choice...both are man-manipulated.
Both rely on our intential use of natural processes to create a product that we want.
The difference is that I don't believe man can make an apple, period.
Your examples seem more like the difference in making a baked apple and making an apple. Man can make a baked apple.
So you think before humans got into agriculture there were wild Gala apple trees and wild corn and wild zucchini plants?1 -
cmriverside wrote: »in for the pedantry.
lol fair enough.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »katthouse499 wrote: »I am food sensitive !! I don't break down some things. To me clean eating is eating anything that isn't man made or comes in a box with any type of additives
What isn't man-made that you can find in a grocery store?
Fish
....yeah okay that is actually true, hadn't thought of that one. The vast vast majority though are agricultural products or processed foods.
Which mostly aren't man-made. Man grows an apple, he doesn't make the apple.
Apples are pretty much man made. Doesn't matter if they grow, they were shaped by us...they wouldn't exist without us. There is nothing in nature that resembles or tastes like something like a Gala apple. The natural version is nothing like what we have in a store.
A metal object is made by pouring liquid metal into a mold, the liquid and solidification follow natural laws but yet no one would argue that it isn't man made nor would you ever see its like in nature without human intervention. An agricultural product is formed by a molding process over centuries...the proccesses follow natural laws but yet the product is something you would never see in nature without human intervention. Yet people call that natural. That always confused me.
Why would a plant in nature produce hundreds of giant sugar orbs with tiny seeds only to die shortly thereafter or no longer be able to produce. We engineered that into them, they are products. That doesn't mean they are bad but I don't understand the purpose of denying that fact.
Fish I agree though, the fish we consume are gathered from a natural enviorment (unless you are talking like farmed salmon).
When a man pours the ingredients of an apple into a mold and makes an apple, I'll believe it's man-made. Until then it will always be man-manipulated to me.
Okay what is the difference between man made and man manipulated? Is it a distinction between organic and non-organic materials? Because the properties of the metal, the liquid state, the liquid dynamics, the solidification and crystalization....all of that are natural, we just manipulate it to form what we want. As a molecular biologist I guess I don't really view life as being all that different. We manipulate it to form what we want. To me, both are man made or...if we want to change word choice...both are man-manipulated.
Both rely on our intential use of natural processes to create a product that we want.
The difference is that I don't believe man can make an apple, period.
Your examples seem more like the difference in making a baked apple and making an apple. Man can make a baked apple.
Apples, as we know them, are the result of human intervention. Most domesticated fruits are significantly altered from their "natural" counterparts.
Yes, I know.
Then you can understand why the distinction between "natural" and "manmade" strikes some of us as meaningless when it comes to food?0 -
Anvil_Head wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »katthouse499 wrote: »I am food sensitive !! I don't break down some things. To me clean eating is eating anything that isn't man made or comes in a box with any type of additives
What isn't man-made that you can find in a grocery store?
Fish
Much of the fish found in grocery stores is farmed - bred and raised by humans in a fish farm. Wild-caught fish were caught, processed, flash frozen and packaged by humans. By some definitions that would make it "processed" and thus "unclean".
Which further shows how ridiculous the phrase is. If I were to go catch a salmon myself, clean it with my own hands and throw it on ice to eat later, many would consider that "clean". But if somebody else caught, cleaned, froze it and put it in the store, it would be "processed" and "unclean".
Eh I don't think simply farming something makes it man-made immediately. I think it takes a certain amount of alternation before I would consider it man made. Farmed salmon tends to be fattier for sure but the fish itself is pretty darn close to the natural counterpart. That is in contrast to other farmed animals or farmed produce which have been in agriculture long enough to be completely altered to the point there is no resembelance to a natural plant.
Corn is a good example of that. The genetic origin of corn was from a grass that grows in the area of Mexico. If you saw said grass it wouldn't remind you of corn at all. We made corn, corn did not exist in nature...it is man-made.
Apples there are crab apples that are natural, they don't taste the same aren't nearly as large (more like sour cherries) aren't produced in nearly the numbers...they have faint resemblance to what we have created.
Berries I think are the closest to natural, what we have in terms of berries there are very close counterparts that grow naturally. Mountain huckleberries look pretty close to blueberries.
Natural "corn" is teosinite.
Its basically grass. You know how when your grass goes to seed it forms that little stalk with multiple seeds on it? Yeah we took that and grew it over and over and over and over selecting for larger seeds and more sugar content until we got corn. Corn is not something that would exist at all without us. It is man made. Grass is natural, corn is not.3 -
Is what I am saying semantic or pedantic? Yeah, in some ways it is. But at the point people are valuing "natural" over "processed" to eat "clean" it starts to matter when they are pointing at things as being "natural" that have a longer history of processing by man than anything else.
We engineered plants to have high sugar content and produce giant big sugar orbs because we like the hell out of sugar not because of our health. The fact that they are produced by a plant doesn't make that somehow natural nor does it automatically make it good for you. I just get really annoyed by the attitude that a plant made it therefore its natural therefore its healthy. I'm not saying fruit in your grocery store is bad for you nor am I saying things that are truly natural are guaranteed good for you, but lets at least be honest about the origin of our food. Shopping the edge of your local Whole Foods Market is not somehow akin to foraging in a forest.5 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »katthouse499 wrote: »I am food sensitive !! I don't break down some things. To me clean eating is eating anything that isn't man made or comes in a box with any type of additives
What isn't man-made that you can find in a grocery store?
Fish
....yeah okay that is actually true, hadn't thought of that one. The vast vast majority though are agricultural products or processed foods.
Which mostly aren't man-made. Man grows an apple, he doesn't make the apple.
Apples are pretty much man made. Doesn't matter if they grow, they were shaped by us...they wouldn't exist without us. There is nothing in nature that resembles or tastes like something like a Gala apple. The natural version is nothing like what we have in a store.
A metal object is made by pouring liquid metal into a mold, the liquid and solidification follow natural laws but yet no one would argue that it isn't man made nor would you ever see its like in nature without human intervention. An agricultural product is formed by a molding process over centuries...the proccesses follow natural laws but yet the product is something you would never see in nature without human intervention. Yet people call that natural. That always confused me.
Why would a plant in nature produce hundreds of giant sugar orbs with tiny seeds only to die shortly thereafter or no longer be able to produce. We engineered that into them, they are products. That doesn't mean they are bad but I don't understand the purpose of denying that fact.
Fish I agree though, the fish we consume are gathered from a natural enviorment (unless you are talking like farmed salmon).
When a man pours the ingredients of an apple into a mold and makes an apple, I'll believe it's man-made. Until then it will always be man-manipulated to me.
Okay what is the difference between man made and man manipulated? Is it a distinction between organic and non-organic materials? Because the properties of the metal, the liquid state, the liquid dynamics, the solidification and crystalization....all of that are natural, we just manipulate it to form what we want. As a molecular biologist I guess I don't really view life as being all that different. We manipulate it to form what we want. To me, both are man made or...if we want to change word choice...both are man-manipulated.
Both rely on our intential use of natural processes to create a product that we want.
The difference is that I don't believe man can make an apple, period.
Your examples seem more like the difference in making a baked apple and making an apple. Man can make a baked apple.
Apples, as we know them, are the result of human intervention. Most domesticated fruits are significantly altered from their "natural" counterparts.
Yes, I know.
Then you can understand why the distinction between "natural" and "manmade" strikes some of us as meaningless when it comes to food?
Meaningless? No, sorry I don't.2 -
We also engineered away as much of the bitterness and sourness as we could.
While we were at it we messed with milk production and muscle and fat content in cows, sheep,, goats and pigs. And really, REALLY messed with chickens.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Here's some good overviews of the history of the word and what it supposedly means:
http://www.takepart.com/article/2014/01/08/what-it-means-eat-clean
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2014/05/08/clean_eating_is_a_bad_label_with_no_real_meaning_for_your_diet_plan.html
Um, no. That first link says the term was coined in 1993, but I've heard it all my life. Since I was a child in the 1960's.
I didn't see where the second link said anything at all about it origins. Just that it had been around for "years".
Well, I was a child in the 70s and it certainly wasn't in use then, and by the 80s I was reading a lot of food and nutrition writing, and it wasn't in wide use then. Maybe you could point to some examples of its 1960s uses?
The second one talks about the multiplicity of ways it is used today, explaining why its pretty much become a catchphrase people use to try to make their particular way of eating morally better than other people's way of eating.1 -
The other thing I don't get is the treatment of so called "genetically modified" foods. Apparently those aren't natural anymore, those are manmade. Yet they still grow. They aren't "poured into a mold". Why are they considered no longer natural by people who consider agriculture to be natural? I'm not going to guess as to your opinion on those @Need2Exerc1se so I'll just ask if you consider "genetically modified" plants to be natural or man-made and if so what about them crossed that line for you?
I assume the answer is because the process isn't "natural" like agriculture itself is natural or like the techniques used in genetic engineering aren't from natural processes neither of which are true.
4 -
Boy, reading some of these comments... no matter what someone tries to answer, someone else is there to stomp them down. As I understand "clean" eating it's avoiding overly processed foods - the kinds of foods you find toward the center of the store (chips, sweetened cereals, box meals, etc.) and focusing on selecting fresher items and basic ingredients that are more likely found around the parameter of the store (fresh vegetables, fruits, meat, dairy).
"But there's baked goods around the parameter of the store to so you must be saying that the 3-layer German chocolate cake is a clean food, right? Huh? Yeah you must be!"
No that's not what I'm saying.
In this day and age it's vitually impossible to be a completely "clean" eater but if it's of interest to you there's nothing wrong with going in that direction. It means having some crispy carrots with your lunch instead of potato chips, for example. There's always someone to point out a flaw or an exception but that's my best attempt to explain "clean eating" on a high level. Hope that helps a little.4 -
Wash fruits and vegetables, don't eat things past their expiration date, and avoid things that are growing blue-green fuzz?1
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »katthouse499 wrote: »I am food sensitive !! I don't break down some things. To me clean eating is eating anything that isn't man made or comes in a box with any type of additives
What isn't man-made that you can find in a grocery store?
Fish
....yeah okay that is actually true, hadn't thought of that one. The vast vast majority though are agricultural products or processed foods.
Which mostly aren't man-made. Man grows an apple, he doesn't make the apple.
Apples are pretty much man made. Doesn't matter if they grow, they were shaped by us...they wouldn't exist without us. There is nothing in nature that resembles or tastes like something like a Gala apple. The natural version is nothing like what we have in a store.
A metal object is made by pouring liquid metal into a mold, the liquid and solidification follow natural laws but yet no one would argue that it isn't man made nor would you ever see its like in nature without human intervention. An agricultural product is formed by a molding process over centuries...the proccesses follow natural laws but yet the product is something you would never see in nature without human intervention. Yet people call that natural. That always confused me.
Why would a plant in nature produce hundreds of giant sugar orbs with tiny seeds only to die shortly thereafter or no longer be able to produce. We engineered that into them, they are products. That doesn't mean they are bad but I don't understand the purpose of denying that fact.
Fish I agree though, the fish we consume are gathered from a natural enviorment (unless you are talking like farmed salmon).
When a man pours the ingredients of an apple into a mold and makes an apple, I'll believe it's man-made. Until then it will always be man-manipulated to me.
Okay what is the difference between man made and man manipulated? Is it a distinction between organic and non-organic materials? Because the properties of the metal, the liquid state, the liquid dynamics, the solidification and crystalization....all of that are natural, we just manipulate it to form what we want. As a molecular biologist I guess I don't really view life as being all that different. We manipulate it to form what we want. To me, both are man made or...if we want to change word choice...both are man-manipulated.
Both rely on our intential use of natural processes to create a product that we want.
The difference is that I don't believe man can make an apple, period.
Your examples seem more like the difference in making a baked apple and making an apple. Man can make a baked apple.
Apples, as we know them, are the result of human intervention. Most domesticated fruits are significantly altered from their "natural" counterparts.
Yes, I know.
Then you can understand why the distinction between "natural" and "manmade" strikes some of us as meaningless when it comes to food?
Meaningless? No, sorry I don't.
Okay, so in the context of many domesticated plants being significantly changed via human intervention, what do you see as the difference between "natural" and "manmade" when it comes to food?1 -
StealthHealth wrote: »What is clean eating? "A-can-of-worms", that is what clean eating is.
Wash the dirt off those worms first!2 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Anvil_Head wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »katthouse499 wrote: »I am food sensitive !! I don't break down some things. To me clean eating is eating anything that isn't man made or comes in a box with any type of additives
What isn't man-made that you can find in a grocery store?
Fish
Much of the fish found in grocery stores is farmed - bred and raised by humans in a fish farm. Wild-caught fish were caught, processed, flash frozen and packaged by humans. By some definitions that would make it "processed" and thus "unclean".
Which further shows how ridiculous the phrase is. If I were to go catch a salmon myself, clean it with my own hands and throw it on ice to eat later, many would consider that "clean". But if somebody else caught, cleaned, froze it and put it in the store, it would be "processed" and "unclean".
Eh I don't think simply farming something makes it man-made immediately. I think it takes a certain amount of alternation before I would consider it man made. Farmed salmon tends to be fattier for sure but the fish itself is pretty darn close to the natural counterpart. That is in contrast to other farmed animals or farmed produce which have been in agriculture long enough to be completely altered to the point there is no resembelance to a natural plant...
Make no mistake, I agree with you 100%. I'm simply pointing out how ridiculous the "clean eating" argument is. Shunning certain foods for arbitrary reasons, yet including others (and touting them as "clean") when they're as much or more engineered/processed than the dreaded "unclean" foods.
FWIW, I don't look at any food as "clean" or "unclean". I consider how it fits into my overall diet, taking context and dosage into consideration. A diet consisting entirely of homegrown, organically farmed kale would be no more healthy or balanced than a diet consisting entirely of highly processed fast food. As usual, the answer lies somewhere between the two (equally ridiculous) extremes.3 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »The other thing I don't get is the treatment of so called "genetically modified" foods. Apparently those aren't natural anymore, those are manmade. Yet they still grow. They aren't "poured into a mold". Why are they considered no longer natural? I'm not going to guess as to your opinion on those @Need2Exerc1se so I'll just ask if you consider "genetically modified" plants to be natural or man-made and if so what about them crossed that line for you?
I assume the answer is because the process isn't "natural" like agriculture itself is natural or like the techniques used in genetic engineering aren't from natural processes neither of which are true.
http://www.who.int/foodsafety/areas_work/food-technology/faq-genetically-modified-food/en/
Genetically modified organisms (GMOs) can be defined as organisms (i.e. plants, animals or microorganisms) in which the genetic material (DNA) has been altered in a way that does not occur naturally by mating and/or natural recombination. The technology is often called “modern biotechnology” or “gene technology”, sometimes also “recombinant DNA technology” or “genetic engineering”. It allows selected individual genes to be transferred from one organism into another, also between nonrelated species. Foods produced from or using GM organisms are often referred to as GM foods.
I'd say that's a little beyond "natural".0 -
Wash fruits and vegetables, don't eat things past their expiration date, and avoid things that are growing blue-green fuzz?
I have eaten strawberries/blackberries without washing them whilst out strawberry picking
I even saw people eating corn on the cob raw straight from plucking..
here best before dates are ok for some foods but use by dates i wouldnt go past
i guess i am doomed
Are we sure those blue bits in cheese is fine? where does that come from3 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »Wash fruits and vegetables, don't eat things past their expiration date, and avoid things that are growing blue-green fuzz?
I have eaten strawberries/blackberries without washing them whilst out strawberry picking
I even saw people eating corn on the cob raw straight from plucking..
here best before dates are ok for some foods but use by dates i wouldnt go past
i guess i am doomed
Are we sure those blue bits in cheese is fine? where does that come from
You're doomed! Bleu cheese has mold!
No actually I eat it also.0 -
There is an aspect of the "clean eating" idea that I do agree with. I think that our food has become a bit overengineered. That reductionist thinking where you take the sugar (but only the sugar) from this plant and combine it with the protein from this plant and then add the salt from this and thats a food product I think ends up eliminating a lot of nutrients that are important for good health and fiber that is important for digestive health and satiation.
I think adding lots of sugar for taste, removing fiber, processing and refining, has the rather severe drawback of having higher calorie/satiation foods with fewer nutrients.
I believe that eating "whole foods" is a way of avoiding this and getting more micronutrients and fiber in your diet.
That said what I absolutely do not subscribe to is the demonization of processing nor the idea of "natural" versus "man-made" that seems to go along with it or the arbitrary rules that don't actually line up with what is really important but are rather just shortcuts that sort of miss the point.
If I can eat an apple rather than applesauce I will do so, but that doesn't mean that I shun applesauce or curse its existance. I don't favor the apple because its "natural" or because it "has less than 5 ingredients" I favor it because the skin has some nutrients I would otherwise miss and I get a little extra fiber out of it (although not much) and the act of chewing is a bit more satisfying.3
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