Afraid of natural sugars
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gonetothedogs19 wrote: »shadowfax_c11 wrote: »Sugar is sugar no matter what it's source is. For weight loss the only thing you need to worry about is calories. I look at the macro goals as minimums to be met. Going over them by a little is not a concern. Going over them by really huge margins might be a problem, moreso for some people than for others.
Well if your trying to lose weight so you might as well try to eat healthy. When you say sugar is sugar it's a green light to eat a donut for breakfast instead of fruit (for argument sake they have the same calories and same sugar).
I have no trouble staying satisfied eating a donut for breakfast. What's your beef?7 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »shadowfax_c11 wrote: »Sugar is sugar no matter what it's source is. For weight loss the only thing you need to worry about is calories. I look at the macro goals as minimums to be met. Going over them by a little is not a concern. Going over them by really huge margins might be a problem, moreso for some people than for others.
Well if your trying to lose weight so you might as well try to eat healthy. When you say sugar is sugar it's a green light to eat a donut for breakfast instead of fruit (for argument sake they have the same calories and same sugar).
No, not unless you don't understand nutrition.
Sugar is sugar, but a donut and fruit is [edit: are, argh!] different.
And I have a green light to eat a donut for breakfast in that I know I can if I want, and even can without blowing my calorie budget should I so choose. But you don't have to scare me straight by saying that donut sugar is different and prevents weight loss or some such, because I can nonetheless make what I think is a reasonable decision and normally have a breakfast that is consistent with my own ideas of nutrition (which means, for me, vegetables, protein, maybe some fruit, maybe some whole grains).
Also, I'm curious why my prior response is deemed to make no sense.0 -
Unless you have a medical reason to worry about it, OP -- don't.
I've lost 92 pounds not worrying about sugar.
Personally, I find milk (all dairy really) and fruits (especially those with a lot of fiber) to be very filling foods, and they are big staples in my diet.
The only time to worry about overconsumption of sugar is if you are going over your calorie intake or you are eating foods that leave you feeling hungry and unsatisfied with the calorie deficit you need to eat to lose weight. As long as your food choices fit within your calorie goals? Enjoy. And that includes food choices containing refined sugar. Life is too short to never have chocolate.2 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »
Well if your trying to lose weight so you might as well try to eat healthy.
I think trying too hard to eat "healthy" is a terrible idea, particularly if weight is your primary health concern:
1. "Healthy" is a very nebulous term, not a clear and easily defined goal, particularly when looking at foods in isolation. It's impossible to measure quantitatively.
2. The more dramatic the change, the less likely you are to sustain it. Making unnecessary change reduces success of necessary change.
3. You can't focus on more than 1-3 goals at once. You need to pick the wildly important ones for your own health. The hardest thing in most types of management, whether it be managing a company or your health, isn't saying 'no' to bad ideas, the hardest thing is saying 'not now' to good ideas.
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@E02L05 , how much milk do you consume in ounces daily? Why 1%. Why not something like soy milk or almond milk or even full fat whole milk? Maybe even buttermilk, which has no fat. I'm just curious. I've read a lot of successful losers of weight on this site who pointed out that their goal each day is to have the final over under numbers at 1 digit only and don't care about red or green.0
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The sugar "limit" set by Myfitnesspal.com is not only arbitrary but ridiculous. They're using the WHO "added sugars goal" but not distinguishing between any sources of sugar. If course, your body doesn't either, distinguish between sources of sugar, which just illustrated how silly the " added sugar " guideline is in the first place.
You can change your food diary to track something useful like fiber instead of sugar. That is what many of us do. Most people get very little fiber in their diets, and there's strong evidence that fiber is beneficial both in the short term and long term.6 -
Raptor2763 wrote: »Natural sugars aren't any big deal - it's the added sugar, ESPECIALLY the REFINED sugar one need to avoid. That's where reading labels comes in really handy
Why? What's wrong with refined sugar?
WHO calls on countries to reduce sugars intake among adults and children
4 MARCH 2015 ¦ GENEVA - A new WHO guideline recommends adults and children reduce their daily intake of free sugars to less than 10% of their total energy intake. A further reduction to below 5% or roughly 25 grams (6 teaspoons) per day would provide additional health benefits.
Free sugars refer to monosaccharides (such as glucose, fructose) and disaccharides (such as sucrose or table sugar) added to foods and drinks by the manufacturer, cook or consumer, and sugars naturally present in honey, syrups, fruit juices and fruit juice concentrates.
“We have solid evidence that keeping intake of free sugars to less than 10% of total energy intake reduces the risk of overweight, obesity and tooth decay,” says Dr Francesco Branca, Director of WHO’s Department of Nutrition for Health and Development. “Making policy changes to support this will be key if countries are to live up to their commitments to reduce the burden of noncommunicable diseases.”
The WHO guideline does not refer to the sugars in fresh fruits and vegetables, and sugars naturally present in milk, because there is no reported evidence of adverse effects of consuming these sugars.
Read more: http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/1 -
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gonetothedogs19 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Raptor2763 wrote: »Natural sugars aren't any big deal - it's the added sugar, ESPECIALLY the REFINED sugar one need to avoid. That's where reading labels comes in really handy
Why? What's wrong with refined sugar?
WHO calls on countries to reduce sugars intake among adults and children
4 MARCH 2015 ¦ GENEVA - A new WHO guideline recommends adults and children reduce their daily intake of free sugars to less than 10% of their total energy intake. A further reduction to below 5% or roughly 25 grams (6 teaspoons) per day would provide additional health benefits.
Free sugars refer to monosaccharides (such as glucose, fructose) and disaccharides (such as sucrose or table sugar) added to foods and drinks by the manufacturer, cook or consumer, and sugars naturally present in honey, syrups, fruit juices and fruit juice concentrates.
“We have solid evidence that keeping intake of free sugars to less than 10% of total energy intake reduces the risk of overweight, obesity and tooth decay,” says Dr Francesco Branca, Director of WHO’s Department of Nutrition for Health and Development. “Making policy changes to support this will be key if countries are to live up to their commitments to reduce the burden of noncommunicable diseases.”
The WHO guideline does not refer to the sugars in fresh fruits and vegetables, and sugars naturally present in milk, because there is no reported evidence of adverse effects of consuming these sugars.
Read more: http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
But wait a minute, all the "experts" on MFP will tell you over and over again - sugar is sugar, doesn't matter where it comes from. Obviously, they know more than WHO. And also the USDA, which has just mandated the "added sugar" category on nutrition labels.
Point to where the World Health Orginization states that there is a chemical difference between "natural" sugars and "added" sugars please?
The idea of limiting added sugar is to limit overall sugar intake because sugar is generally speaking in and of itself very high calorie to satiation and therefore a lot of added refined sugar is probably going to lead to problems with obesity on an average since you are adding calories without adding micronutrients or adding any feelings of satiation.
That doesn't mean that the fructose in high fructose corn syrup is somehow different or processed differently in your body than fructose in a bananna or an apple.
I'm not disagreeing with the WHO, I'm disagreeing with you...who seems to be thinking the WHO is saying something they aren't.12 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »But wait a minute, all the "experts" on MFP will tell you over and over again - sugar is sugar, doesn't matter where it comes from. Obviously, they know more than WHO. And also the USDA, which has just mandated the "added sugar" category on nutrition labels.
If you read the actual WHO report, the reasons they are recommending reduction in free sugars is:
1. To reduce tooth decay,
2. To reduce the overall calories consumed and thus reduce body weight.
If you are controlling your calories directly, #2 is of no benefit to you since you're eating the same amount anyway. As to #1, sugar reduction can give a benefit, but dental cavities are much more easily prevented by better oral hygiene. Brushing your teeth and flossing before plaque has a chance to form is the best way to prevent cavities.8 -
rankinsect wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »But wait a minute, all the "experts" on MFP will tell you over and over again - sugar is sugar, doesn't matter where it comes from. Obviously, they know more than WHO. And also the USDA, which has just mandated the "added sugar" category on nutrition labels.
If you read the actual WHO report, the reasons they are recommending reduction in free sugars is:
1. To reduce tooth decay,
2. To reduce the overall calories consumed and thus reduce body weight.
If you are controlling your calories directly, #2 is of no benefit to you since you're eating the same amount anyway. As to #1, sugar reduction can give a benefit, but dental cavities are much more easily prevented by better oral hygiene. Brushing your teeth and flossing before plaque has a chance to form is the best way to prevent cavities.
And let's also not forget the WHO fully recognizes the energy balance must be addressed.
"Energy intake (calories) should be in balance with energy expenditure. Evidence indicates that total fat should not exceed 30% of total energy intake to avoid unhealthy weight gain (1, 2, 3), with a shift in fat consumption away from saturated fats to unsaturated fats (3), and towards the elimination of industrial trans fats (4)."2 -
LolBroScience wrote: »Not wrong per say, but there really isn't any need to avoid them unless you have some sort of underlying medical condition that would forbid you from ingesting it.
Focus on the bigger picture and stay under on your calories whilst intaking a wide variety of nutrient dense foods.
No reason to avoid things you like unless you have control issues or allergy/health related issues.
^This.. great advice right here1 -
My nutrient goals are low sodium and low sugar. I try to not go over half my MFP allotment. My diet consists mostly of lean protein, lots of veggies, an apple here and and there, a glass of wine. I eat diabetic bread cause it has no sugar. I have lost almost 10 lbs since my first month here on MFP. My tastebuds have changed. So if I have some juice like I did last Sunday, it absolutely tastes to sweet. Same with sodium. I'm doing this for lower blood pressure, and less inflammation in my body. It seems to be working for me.0
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Thanks everyone, I eat a lot of salad which also has natural sugars and that plus a glass of milk or putting a banana in a smoothie seems to bring up my sugar. Once I see that negative red number I feel like I screwed up.
+1 to the idea of changing your MFP diary settings to stop tracking sugar, and track something more interesting to you, if you don't have a medical reason to limit sugars.
While losing weight, I was going over my default MFP sugar goal every single day, when the only added sugar I was eating was a tiny bit of fruit juice concentrate (not even the first item on the ingredient list) in a 30-calorie tablespoon of all-fruit spread daily. All of the rest of the sugar was inherent in no-sugar-added milk products, and 2-3 daily servings of whole fruit. In that context, the default sugar goal is ridiculous.
So, I stopped tracking sugar, and started tracking fiber instead. No more scary red numbers. Lost 63 pounds, now at a healthy weight for the first time in decades.
Don't worry if you go over any particular macro goal, though, as long as you have good nutritional balance (and no medical issues that require compliance), and you'll lose weight as long as you maintain a calorie deficit, no matter what you eat to get there.1 -
TL;DR the endless sugar arguments.
I eat both natural and refined sugars pretty much daily. I've lost 85 lbs eating this way, and pretty sure I'm no special snowflake. I eat a banana almost everyday, too..I love those things!2 -
rankinsect wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »But wait a minute, all the "experts" on MFP will tell you over and over again - sugar is sugar, doesn't matter where it comes from. Obviously, they know more than WHO. And also the USDA, which has just mandated the "added sugar" category on nutrition labels.
If you read the actual WHO report, the reasons they are recommending reduction in free sugars is:
1. To reduce tooth decay,
2. To reduce the overall calories consumed and thus reduce body weight.
If you are controlling your calories directly, #2 is of no benefit to you since you're eating the same amount anyway. As to #1, sugar reduction can give a benefit, but dental cavities are much more easily prevented by better oral hygiene. Brushing your teeth and flossing before plaque has a chance to form is the best way to prevent cavities.
And let's also not forget the WHO fully recognizes the energy balance must be addressed.
"Energy intake (calories) should be in balance with energy expenditure. Evidence indicates that total fat should not exceed 30% of total energy intake to avoid unhealthy weight gain (1, 2, 3), with a shift in fat consumption away from saturated fats to unsaturated fats (3), and towards the elimination of industrial trans fats (4)."
Hold on. You mean the WHO says you should limit your fat intake too? You don't say. Interesting. Should we also believe them about that over the "experts" on MFP?
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From the USDA 2015 guidelines. Argue with them, not me.
According to the 2015-2020 Dietary Guidelines, we should limit our total daily consumption of added sugars to less than 10% of calories per day. This recommendation is to help achieve a healthy eating style. After eating foods from all food groups to meet nutrient needs, there is limited room for calories from added sugars. When added sugars in foods and beverages exceed 10% of calories, it may be difficult to achieve a healthy eating style that meets personal calorie limits.
A large body of science shows that eating styles with less added sugars are associated with reduced risk of cardiovascular disease in adults, and some evidence indicates that these styles are also associated with reduced risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, and some types of cancer in adults.0 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »From the USDA 2015 guidelines. Argue with them, not me.
According to the 2015-2020 Dietary Guidelines, we should limit our total daily consumption of added sugars to less than 10% of calories per day. This recommendation is to help achieve a healthy eating style. After eating foods from all food groups to meet nutrient needs, there is limited room for calories from added sugars. When added sugars in foods and beverages exceed 10% of calories, it may be difficult to achieve a healthy eating style that meets personal calorie limits.
A large body of science shows that eating styles with less added sugars are associated with reduced risk of cardiovascular disease in adults, and some evidence indicates that these styles are also associated with reduced risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, and some types of cancer in adults.
Why would I argue with that...that seems accurate to me. What I disagree with is your claim earlier that somehow added sugar is different than naturally present sugar. That is a claim that YOU made, not that the WHO made...not that the USDA made and its not true. Its just that if you eat a lot of sugar you are getting a lot of empty calories that don't provide the nutrition you need and don't provide the satiation necessary to stay full. That doesn't mean that added sugar is any different than sugar that is present in a bananna...they are both sugar. Its just that one comes with dietary fiber and potassium and one doesn't. The sugar that is present in a bananna is the same fructose that is present in that added sugar, because fructose is sourced from plants. Sucrose, table sugar, also sourced from plants and is just the disaccharide of glucose and fructose. Its the same sugar.
If your only point is "if you eat a lot of sugar its going to be hard to stay under your calorie limit while still getting enough nutrition" then duh man, no one is going to disagree with that...but you are taking it further to a place that is just bizarre when you claim that somehow refined sugars are different from "natural" sugars. That is just wrong and so I'm going to point out that that is wrong.
Is guzzling down a bunch of high fructose corn syrup drinking liters of soda going to make you fat and is that going to increase your risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, cancer and cardiovascular disease? Yeah...again, duh. People know that, that isn't some sort of new information that is surprising. You are taking in a lot of excess calories, going way over your maintenance level and getting fatter. But you know what, if you somehow decided to chow down 50 bananas a day you'd have the same problem, the only difference is its a lot easier to drink liters of soda than it is to eat 50 bananas. Again...surprising absolutely no one.9 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »From the USDA 2015 guidelines. Argue with them, not me.
According to the 2015-2020 Dietary Guidelines, we should limit our total daily consumption of added sugars to less than 10% of calories per day. This recommendation is to help achieve a healthy eating style. After eating foods from all food groups to meet nutrient needs, there is limited room for calories from added sugars. When added sugars in foods and beverages exceed 10% of calories, it may be difficult to achieve a healthy eating style that meets personal calorie limits.
A large body of science shows that eating styles with less added sugars are associated with reduced risk of cardiovascular disease in adults, and some evidence indicates that these styles are also associated with reduced risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, and some types of cancer in adults.
If your only point is "if you eat a lot of sugar its going to be hard to stay under your calorie limit while still getting enough nutrition" then duh man, no one is going to disagree with that...but you are taking it further to a place that is just bizarre when you claim that somehow refined sugars are different from "natural" sugars. That is just wrong and so I'm going to point out that that is wrong.
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My interpretation of the WHO guideline is that added sugars are added to excess, whereas if one sticks to more natural sugar sources intake is moderated somewhat - for example, in fruit the sugars are paired with fibre which is satiating, and in fuller fat dairy, paired with fat & protein (or just protein in low or fat free dairy), which is also satiating.
Personally, I restrict carbs (I have a 50% chance of developing type 2 diabetes in the next 3 years based purely on risk factors, even though I've never failed a glucose challenge test unless that's why my doctor wants to see me next week). But I still make room in my diet for dairy and a small amount of fruit (and a large amount of fibrous veggies, but those tend to be low in sugar anyway), because the nutrient profile is so good. My handful of strawberries in my smoothie maxes out my vitamin C for the day all by itself!0
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