A question for diabetics.
Replies
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Thank you everyone for your comments, I'm definitely more enlightened on this subject now.0
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gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I'm asking this on behalf of my mum and i'm also curious too..
Her brother, my uncle, is a type 2 diabetic, but he lives in Germany so she only gets to talk to him on the phone and also hear only his side of the story..
By his own admission, he eats a terrible diet loaded with sugary foods, lollies, sweets and excessive carbs. However, he says he can eat all of these things because they have come out with an insulin injection which allows a diabetic to eat whatever they want as long they inject themselves (more than usual), after they eat 'unsuitable' foods, without any repercussions. Is this true, has anyone heard of this? My mum thinks he's fibbing...
Especially since he is now in hospital after having half his leg amputated. His doctor told my mum it was because of his poor lifestyle choices.
So my main question, is there such an insulin available?
Clearly your uncle's plan is not working for him. You could check the website of the American Diabetes Association or its counterpart in your country. That would be a great source of reliable info.
Forget the ADA. Try Diet Doctor on Facebook. He recommends a no-grain, no-sugar (or as close as you can get), high fat diet for pre-Type 2 and Type diabetics. The idea is because diabetes is a disease of high blood sugar, why would you want to eat food that spikes blood sugar? Grains and sugar spike blood sugar and fats do not.
Makes sense to me.
"Forget the official place to go, take this random dude from facebook that I agree with".7 -
stevencloser wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I'm asking this on behalf of my mum and i'm also curious too..
Her brother, my uncle, is a type 2 diabetic, but he lives in Germany so she only gets to talk to him on the phone and also hear only his side of the story..
By his own admission, he eats a terrible diet loaded with sugary foods, lollies, sweets and excessive carbs. However, he says he can eat all of these things because they have come out with an insulin injection which allows a diabetic to eat whatever they want as long they inject themselves (more than usual), after they eat 'unsuitable' foods, without any repercussions. Is this true, has anyone heard of this? My mum thinks he's fibbing...
Especially since he is now in hospital after having half his leg amputated. His doctor told my mum it was because of his poor lifestyle choices.
So my main question, is there such an insulin available?
Clearly your uncle's plan is not working for him. You could check the website of the American Diabetes Association or its counterpart in your country. That would be a great source of reliable info.
Forget the ADA. Try Diet Doctor on Facebook. He recommends a no-grain, no-sugar (or as close as you can get), high fat diet for pre-Type 2 and Type diabetics. The idea is because diabetes is a disease of high blood sugar, why would you want to eat food that spikes blood sugar? Grains and sugar spike blood sugar and fats do not.
Makes sense to me.
"Forget the official place to go, take this random dude from facebook that I agree with".
Truthfully, the ADA recommendation for tons of carbs is most harmful to those who are insulin resistant and not taking supplemental insulin. Those are the patients who would have the worst uncontrolled high BG's. In such cases, the ADA truly has terrible advice.1 -
The ADA does not advocate "tons of carbs"!!6
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midwesterner85 wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I'm asking this on behalf of my mum and i'm also curious too..
Her brother, my uncle, is a type 2 diabetic, but he lives in Germany so she only gets to talk to him on the phone and also hear only his side of the story..
By his own admission, he eats a terrible diet loaded with sugary foods, lollies, sweets and excessive carbs. However, he says he can eat all of these things because they have come out with an insulin injection which allows a diabetic to eat whatever they want as long they inject themselves (more than usual), after they eat 'unsuitable' foods, without any repercussions. Is this true, has anyone heard of this? My mum thinks he's fibbing...
Especially since he is now in hospital after having half his leg amputated. His doctor told my mum it was because of his poor lifestyle choices.
So my main question, is there such an insulin available?
Clearly your uncle's plan is not working for him. You could check the website of the American Diabetes Association or its counterpart in your country. That would be a great source of reliable info.
Forget the ADA. Try Diet Doctor on Facebook. He recommends a no-grain, no-sugar (or as close as you can get), high fat diet for pre-Type 2 and Type diabetics. The idea is because diabetes is a disease of high blood sugar, why would you want to eat food that spikes blood sugar? Grains and sugar spike blood sugar and fats do not.
Makes sense to me.
"Forget the official place to go, take this random dude from facebook that I agree with".
Truthfully, the ADA recommendation for tons of carbs is most harmful to those who are insulin resistant and not taking supplemental insulin. Those are the patients who would have the worst uncontrolled high BG's. In such cases, the ADA truly has terrible advice.
Glad you agree.
The ADA gets major funding from the drug companies who make billions treating Type 2 diabetics for decades. The simple diet switch defunds the drug companies, and defunds the ADA.
The other theory is that the ADA knows it has been giving terrible advise for decades, but cannot admit they were wrong because of the liability.2 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Thank you everyone for your comments, I'm definitely more enlightened on this subject now.
The bible of a high-fat, low-carb lifestyle is Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution. It was written in 1997 and has stood the test of time. He is an 82-year-old, very healthy Type I diabetic.2 -
The ADA does not advocate "tons of carbs"!!
I acknowledge the ADA has improved significantly over the past several years in regards to carbs. In the past, it was common to see something similar to the old food pyramid - primary food is grains, then some fruit carbs and dairy (some of which has heavy carbs) as well as vegetables (some of which have heavy carbs also) and meats.
Now, the ADA is advocating low fat (still not quite right), and 25% grains / 50% non-starchy vegetables / 25% meat using the "plate method." When you calculate calories, the non-starchy vegetables have very few calories. The calories they do have come from small amounts of carbs. So 75% of the "plate" is supposed to be covered with carbs.
However, it isn't really fair to say that 75% of calories come from carbs because the 50% of the plate with "non-starchy vegetables" is going to contain fewer total calories than the other 50% with grains/starchy vegetables and meat. So let's be conservative and say that only 20% of the total calories come from the 50% of the plate (I'm open to other numbers here... it will vary widely depending on specifics). Keep in mind that is all carbs. Now there are 80% remaining calories made up with grains and meats. Let's estimate conservatively here also and figure that 50% is meat (protein and fat) while 30% is grains. That is still 50% calories from carbs! On a 2,000 calorie diet, that is 250g of carbs per day. Yes, that is tons of carbs! And that is even after the ADA has gone through significant improvement over the past several years.
ETA: Keep in mind that 250g is after making several conservative estimates also. Realistically, a person following the ADA recommendations will consume more than that.2 -
The ADA does not advocate "tons of carbs"!!
From my perspective (eating a low carb diet) 200ishg of carbs a day seems insane for someone with diabetes. And the fat recommendation seems to be rock bottom even though it's the least likely to impact blood sugar - in order to make room for all of those carbs I guess. Source
Eat the "healthy" carbs your body can't process is asinine advice at best and criminal at worst. If I had diabetes I would be paying attention to recent studies -- good control is not protecting you from heart disease and cancer. --> THIS is not working.3 -
@Christine_72
Sounds like he's not interested in making changes. There's really not much you can do about this. Honestly, if you know that he's not being completely honest about his compliance with medical recommendations, is it going to do anything other than make you upset? Likewise, for your poor mum having to deal with him?
It sounds to me like he is slowly killing himself, and doesn't care enough to stop. All the back and forth about which diet is most appropriate is useless until he is willing to make the changes. Sounds like he needs some counseling to begin changing his mindset, but even then, he needs to be willing.
Let him know that you love him, support him, and worry about his health and life. Then try to accept that until he is ready to make the changes, there is nothing more you can do. It's painful to watch loved ones throw their lives away, but it's important to know that it is out of your control. Hug your mum and tell her the same things.
Just my opinion, of course. It's free, so take it for what it's worth.5 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »
I have read testimonial after testimonial from pre-Type 2 diabetics who got their blood sugars back to normal in a matter of just weeks by eliminating all grains, all sugars and all starches. Carbohydrates from leafy vegetables and low-car nuts are fine.
Maybe a few hundred of these people can organize and storm the gates of the ADA headquarters in Virginia, and tell them to change their guidelines.
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nutmegoreo wrote: »@Christine_72
Sounds like he's not interested in making changes. There's really not much you can do about this. Honestly, if you know that he's not being completely honest about his compliance with medical recommendations, is it going to do anything other than make you upset? Likewise, for your poor mum having to deal with him?
It sounds to me like he is slowly killing himself, and doesn't care enough to stop. All the back and forth about which diet is most appropriate is useless until he is willing to make the changes. Sounds like he needs some counseling to begin changing his mindset, but even then, he needs to be willing.
Let him know that you love him, support him, and worry about his health and life. Then try to accept that until he is ready to make the changes, there is nothing more you can do. It's painful to watch loved ones throw their lives away, but it's important to know that it is out of your control. Hug your mum and tell her the same things.
Just my opinion, of course. It's free, so take it for what it's worth.
I agree.. My poor mum has racked up over $500 in phone calls to the hospital, and they're telling her that he's now under 24 hour observation, but that's all they're telling her. Nothing about how he's doing or what's going on, but the fact that he's under constant supervision tells me that he may have pulled the 'i'm going to kill myself' card.
I'm furious with my uncle for not getting in contact with my mum, he has his phone (which is constantly switched off), and even more pissed off with the doctors for not talking to her every time she calls. She always ends up talking to some random nurse who promises the doctor will call her back, but he never does..
Right now i'm more concerned with my mum, who's about to lose her mind, than i am with my uncle! She feels extra guilty, because he always goes on how selfish she is for moving to another country , and she lets him get to her. We moved here 45 years ago, and he still rants on about it. Sorry guys, now I'm starting to rant :mad:1 -
You could check the website of the American Diabetes Association or its counterpart in your country. That would be a great source of reliable info.
Please don't. The ADA recommends diets dangerously high in carbs. Their advice contributes to the view of T2 diabetes as a chronic, progressive disease.
If I eat more than 20 grams carbs/meal, my blood glucose exceeds normal ranges for blood glucose. The ADA recommends upwards of 50 grams of carbs per meal. If I consumed that many carbs, my A1c would be at the level that has been demonstrated to be associated with chronic kidney disease (and other side effects such as neuropathy, retinopathy, etc.)
Yes, it is challenging to maintain normal blood glucose levels - but for many T2 diabetices it is not impossible (and it stops - and in many instances reverses - the chronic progression that most doctors and the ADA beleive are inevitable).
A far better source of information is diabetes.co.uk. The forum includes people committed to managing their diabetes, through a wide variety of approaches - most of whom have a healthy skepticism for the standard medical/ADA view.
As to T1 v. T2 - controlling blood glucose is far easier with T2, but many T1 diabetics find their diabetes much easier to manage if they dramatically decrease their carb consumption.
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Christine_72 wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »@Christine_72
Sounds like he's not interested in making changes. There's really not much you can do about this. Honestly, if you know that he's not being completely honest about his compliance with medical recommendations, is it going to do anything other than make you upset? Likewise, for your poor mum having to deal with him?
It sounds to me like he is slowly killing himself, and doesn't care enough to stop. All the back and forth about which diet is most appropriate is useless until he is willing to make the changes. Sounds like he needs some counseling to begin changing his mindset, but even then, he needs to be willing.
Let him know that you love him, support him, and worry about his health and life. Then try to accept that until he is ready to make the changes, there is nothing more you can do. It's painful to watch loved ones throw their lives away, but it's important to know that it is out of your control. Hug your mum and tell her the same things.
Just my opinion, of course. It's free, so take it for what it's worth.
I agree.. My poor mum has racked up over $500 in phone calls to the hospital, and they're telling her that he's now under 24 hour observation, but that's all they're telling her. Nothing about how he's doing or what's going on, but the fact that he's under constant supervision tells me that he may have pulled the 'i'm going to kill myself' card.
I'm furious with my uncle for not getting in contact with my mum, he has his phone (which is constantly switched off), and even more pissed off with the doctors for not talking to her every time she calls. She always ends up talking to some random nurse who promises the doctor will call her back, but he never does..
Right now i'm more concerned with my mum, who's about to lose her mind, than i am with my uncle! She feels extra guilty, because he always goes on how selfish she is for moving to another country , and she lets him get to her. We moved here 45 years ago, and he still rants on about it. Sorry guys, now I'm starting to rant :mad:
Sounds like he's looking for everyone else to blame and not taking his own responsibility. It also sounds like he is very selfish. I'm so sorry your mum is letting him get to her. I hope she can come to the conclusion that it's not helpful for either of them for her to continue being pulled this way. As long as she plays into it, he is getting the attention he wants. Maybe if the dynamics changed, he would too. Worst case scenario he continues on the path he is on. Best case scenario he starts to realize that he could have a different (better) relationship with those around him. Either way, your mum would be less pained by his behaviours.
Depending on what he's said to the docs, could be part of the reason they won't share much information with her, and nurses tend to be even more cautious about sharing medical information with people, particularly over the phone. As an adult, it is presumed that he would be informing the people that he wants to know, otherwise, it is a violation of his confidentiality. They would have to be careful or possibly face legal repercussions. I'm basing that on our laws here though, so it may be different.2 -
You could check the website of the American Diabetes Association or its counterpart in your country. That would be a great source of reliable info.
Please don't. The ADA recommends diets dangerously high in carbs. Their advice contributes to the view of T2 diabetes as a chronic, progressive disease.
If I eat more than 20 grams carbs/meal, my blood glucose exceeds normal ranges for blood glucose. The ADA recommends upwards of 50 grams of carbs per meal. If I consumed that many carbs, my A1c would be at the level that has been demonstrated to be associated with chronic kidney disease (and other side effects such as neuropathy, retinopathy, etc.)
Yes, it is challenging to maintain normal blood glucose levels - but for many T2 diabetices it is not impossible (and it stops - and in many instances reverses - the chronic progression that most doctors and the ADA beleive are inevitable).
A far better source of information is diabetes.co.uk. The forum includes people committed to managing their diabetes, through a wide variety of approaches - most of whom have a healthy skepticism for the standard medical/ADA view.
As to T1 v. T2 - controlling blood glucose is far easier with T2, but many T1 diabetics find their diabetes much easier to manage if they dramatically decrease their carb consumption.
neohidver - when you say 20 grams of carbs/meal, does that also include leafy vegetables? I thought leafy vegetables, despite the carbs, are OK for diabetics. Thanks.0 -
My T2 diabetes is also in remission and I never eliminated carbs.2
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My T2 diabetes is also in remission and I never eliminated carbs.
If I remember well, you also had surgery:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4566335/2 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »My T2 diabetes is also in remission and I never eliminated carbs.
If I remember well, you also had surgery:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4566335/
Your point is....???0 -
I'm Type 1 (late onset adult) and I have to take insulin with my meals. If I'm sticking with non starchy vegetables, and lean meats, I don't have to take any at all. If I'm indulging in starchy things; bread, potatoes, rice, pasta, or sugary things like some fruit and deserts, I have to dose accordingly. My doctor told me to eat whatever I want, in moderation. But knowing I had to test my sugar and take 3-4 units of insulin was enough for me to politely refuse the slice of homemade rum cake I was offered yesterday!1
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I've gotten a lot of great diabetic information to help with my diabetes (insulin resistance) from:
http://www.joslin.org/0 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I'm asking this on behalf of my mum and i'm also curious too..
Her brother, my uncle, is a type 2 diabetic, but he lives in Germany so she only gets to talk to him on the phone and also hear only his side of the story..
By his own admission, he eats a terrible diet loaded with sugary foods, lollies, sweets and excessive carbs. However, he says he can eat all of these things because they have come out with an insulin injection which allows a diabetic to eat whatever they want as long they inject themselves (more than usual), after they eat 'unsuitable' foods, without any repercussions. Is this true, has anyone heard of this? My mum thinks he's fibbing...
Especially since he is now in hospital after having half his leg amputated. His doctor told my mum it was because of his poor lifestyle choices.
So my main question, is there such an insulin available?
Clearly your uncle's plan is not working for him. You could check the website of the American Diabetes Association or its counterpart in your country. That would be a great source of reliable info.
Forget the ADA. Try Diet Doctor on Facebook. He recommends a no-grain, no-sugar (or as close as you can get), high fat diet for pre-Type 2 and Type diabetics. The idea is because diabetes is a disease of high blood sugar, why would you want to eat food that spikes blood sugar? Grains and sugar spike blood sugar and fats do not.
Makes sense to me.
ADA and hospital sites will give reliable medical information on all aspects of this condition.3 -
I'm Type 1 (late onset adult) and I have to take insulin with my meals. If I'm sticking with non starchy vegetables, and lean meats, I don't have to take any at all. If I'm indulging in starchy things; bread, potatoes, rice, pasta, or sugary things like some fruit and deserts, I have to dose accordingly. My doctor told me to eat whatever I want, in moderation. But knowing I had to test my sugar and take 3-4 units of insulin was enough for me to politely refuse the slice of homemade rum cake I was offered yesterday!
Proving once again that doctors know nothing about nutrition. But why should they when the subject is barely broached in medical school. Although I've read the medical schools are getting a little better.
Everything in moderation for a diabetic is beyond ridiculous, unless you enjoy a lifetime of taking pills and insulin.
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midwesterner85 wrote: »gieshagirl wrote: »
these are type 1 diabetics. some with new diagnosis and others that have had to deal with this since they were very small. with teens, the trend with doctors is that if you say something is off limits....that is what they will sneak and do. the diabetic clinics seem to have more compliance with adjustment after eating than prohibiting certain foods. the carbs are broken down by the body into sugar....sugar impacts your system fast...(2 smarties can bring it up by 50-60 points in 10 min.) where as carbs can be slowed down by eating protein with it (but it still turns to sugar and your body perceives it like sugar and uses and stores it like sugar) and thus it makes for more blood sugar stability rather than huge swings that can harm you. type 2 diabetics have less freedom if they are diet controlled because they have to rely on their body to correct blood sugar (sometimes with oral meds for help) but they are more likely to have huge swings in sugar r/t their pancreas are trying to work where as type one their pancreas are not working at allAre these type 1's or type 2's? Why are they trying to stay away from carbs (sugar)?
Teenagers will have more BG fluctuations (and challenges) than others under similar circumstances. BG is affected by dozens of factors, including hormones.
Right, so why are they supposed to stay away from sugar? They take insulin based on carbs, so why not include those sugar carbs in their dosage calculation?
It's not that simple. The replacement insulin is not as effective as a body makes. And it's near impossible to get the timing right so you don't go very high or very low with the replacement insulin. So the typical diabetic will lean towards allowing themselves to go on the high side because the consequences of going very low are real and dangerous. Also different carbohydrates are metabolized at different rates as noted above. As a parent of a type 1 diabetic child I can tell you that there is way more going on than the simple calculation for glucose vs insulin.
So to answer your question. Yes, you just need to include any carbohydrate in your needed insulin calculation. But if you consume too many fast acting carbohydrates, you will most likely go very high before your insulin injection has any affect.
Sugar is not actually the fastest acting carbohydrate, and when my daughter was younger we didn't run away from sugar products. Check out Glycemic index and Glycemic load. I can tell you though that as she has gotten older she self regulates carbohydrates and gets much better results.1 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »I'm Type 1 (late onset adult) and I have to take insulin with my meals. If I'm sticking with non starchy vegetables, and lean meats, I don't have to take any at all. If I'm indulging in starchy things; bread, potatoes, rice, pasta, or sugary things like some fruit and deserts, I have to dose accordingly. My doctor told me to eat whatever I want, in moderation. But knowing I had to test my sugar and take 3-4 units of insulin was enough for me to politely refuse the slice of homemade rum cake I was offered yesterday!
Proving once again that doctors know nothing about nutrition. But why should they when the subject is barely broached in medical school. Although I've read the medical schools are getting a little better.
Everything in moderation for a diabetic is beyond ridiculous, unless you enjoy a lifetime of taking pills and insulin.
Type 1's will take insulin no matter what. If not, we die even if we eat zero carb. Clearly you are referring to type 2's and have not a clue what you are talking about.1 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »I'm Type 1 (late onset adult) and I have to take insulin with my meals. If I'm sticking with non starchy vegetables, and lean meats, I don't have to take any at all. If I'm indulging in starchy things; bread, potatoes, rice, pasta, or sugary things like some fruit and deserts, I have to dose accordingly. My doctor told me to eat whatever I want, in moderation. But knowing I had to test my sugar and take 3-4 units of insulin was enough for me to politely refuse the slice of homemade rum cake I was offered yesterday!
Proving once again that doctors know nothing about nutrition. But why should they when the subject is barely broached in medical school. Although I've read the medical schools are getting a little better.
Everything in moderation for a diabetic is beyond ridiculous, unless you enjoy a lifetime of taking pills and insulin.
Type 1's will take insulin no matter what. If not, we die even if we eat zero carb. Clearly you are referring to type 2's and have not a clue what you are talking about.
That's correct. Clearly I was. So if I was clear, why are you questioning me?
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BlackTimber wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »gieshagirl wrote: »
these are type 1 diabetics. some with new diagnosis and others that have had to deal with this since they were very small. with teens, the trend with doctors is that if you say something is off limits....that is what they will sneak and do. the diabetic clinics seem to have more compliance with adjustment after eating than prohibiting certain foods. the carbs are broken down by the body into sugar....sugar impacts your system fast...(2 smarties can bring it up by 50-60 points in 10 min.) where as carbs can be slowed down by eating protein with it (but it still turns to sugar and your body perceives it like sugar and uses and stores it like sugar) and thus it makes for more blood sugar stability rather than huge swings that can harm you. type 2 diabetics have less freedom if they are diet controlled because they have to rely on their body to correct blood sugar (sometimes with oral meds for help) but they are more likely to have huge swings in sugar r/t their pancreas are trying to work where as type one their pancreas are not working at allAre these type 1's or type 2's? Why are they trying to stay away from carbs (sugar)?
Teenagers will have more BG fluctuations (and challenges) than others under similar circumstances. BG is affected by dozens of factors, including hormones.
Right, so why are they supposed to stay away from sugar? They take insulin based on carbs, so why not include those sugar carbs in their dosage calculation?
It's not that simple. The replacement insulin is not as effective as a body makes. And it's near impossible to get the timing right so you don't go very high or very low with the replacement insulin. So the typical diabetic will lean towards allowing themselves to go on the high side because the consequences of going very low are real and dangerous. Also different carbohydrates are metabolized at different rates as noted above. As a parent of a type 1 diabetic child I can tell you that there is way more going on than the simple calculation for glucose vs insulin.
So to answer your question. Yes, you just need to include any carbohydrate in your needed insulin calculation. But if you consume too many fast acting carbohydrates, you will most likely go very high before your insulin injection has any affect.
Sugar is not actually the fastest acting carbohydrate, and when my daughter was younger we didn't run away from sugar products. Check out Glycemic index and Glycemic load. I can tell you though that as she has gotten older she self regulates carbohydrates and gets much better results.
Yes, points that I made except that I didn't mention glycemic index, which has much less impact than what foods the carbs are paired with - the reason carbs from pizza often give a burst of glucose several hours later. None of that is an explanation about why a type 1 shouldn't eat sugar.
I have more education on type 1 than most physicians and I have decades of experience managing my own type 1 diabetes. My first hand experience is that yes, timing is challenging (it is much better than it was when I first developed type 1 with Regular and NPH as the only available options). That doesn't mean type 1's should abstain from sugar. They just need to manage it properly with insulin.
Timing is an issue for non-diabetics as well, which I pointed out earlier. The spike before insulin kicks in happens to healthy individuals when they eat carbs. There is a slightly bigger spike for diabetics, but most of the same spike happens to non-diabetics too. That is the reality of eating carbs - for everybody. So don't suggest diabetics should never eat carbs unless you are going to apply the same logic to everybody else... because everybody else experiences a spike after eating carbs. So if this is the conclusion regarding BG spikes: "Type 1 diabetics shouldn't eat sugar." Then what you must conclude is really this: "No person should eat sugar." If you are willing to accept a healthy person having a BG spike after carbs before insulin takes effect, then you need to accept that type 1's will have the same spike.
FTR, I'm actually on the "everybody should limit carbs" side. It is just that the ignorance leading to suggestions that type 1's act differently is annoying. So I try my best to cure that ignorance with knowledge.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »BlackTimber wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »gieshagirl wrote: »
these are type 1 diabetics. some with new diagnosis and others that have had to deal with this since they were very small. with teens, the trend with doctors is that if you say something is off limits....that is what they will sneak and do. the diabetic clinics seem to have more compliance with adjustment after eating than prohibiting certain foods. the carbs are broken down by the body into sugar....sugar impacts your system fast...(2 smarties can bring it up by 50-60 points in 10 min.) where as carbs can be slowed down by eating protein with it (but it still turns to sugar and your body perceives it like sugar and uses and stores it like sugar) and thus it makes for more blood sugar stability rather than huge swings that can harm you. type 2 diabetics have less freedom if they are diet controlled because they have to rely on their body to correct blood sugar (sometimes with oral meds for help) but they are more likely to have huge swings in sugar r/t their pancreas are trying to work where as type one their pancreas are not working at allAre these type 1's or type 2's? Why are they trying to stay away from carbs (sugar)?
Teenagers will have more BG fluctuations (and challenges) than others under similar circumstances. BG is affected by dozens of factors, including hormones.
Right, so why are they supposed to stay away from sugar? They take insulin based on carbs, so why not include those sugar carbs in their dosage calculation?
It's not that simple. The replacement insulin is not as effective as a body makes. And it's near impossible to get the timing right so you don't go very high or very low with the replacement insulin. So the typical diabetic will lean towards allowing themselves to go on the high side because the consequences of going very low are real and dangerous. Also different carbohydrates are metabolized at different rates as noted above. As a parent of a type 1 diabetic child I can tell you that there is way more going on than the simple calculation for glucose vs insulin.
So to answer your question. Yes, you just need to include any carbohydrate in your needed insulin calculation. But if you consume too many fast acting carbohydrates, you will most likely go very high before your insulin injection has any affect.
Sugar is not actually the fastest acting carbohydrate, and when my daughter was younger we didn't run away from sugar products. Check out Glycemic index and Glycemic load. I can tell you though that as she has gotten older she self regulates carbohydrates and gets much better results.
Yes, points that I made except that I didn't mention glycemic index, which has much less impact than what foods the carbs are paired with - the reason carbs from pizza often give a burst of glucose several hours later. None of that is an explanation about why a type 1 shouldn't eat sugar.
I have more education on type 1 than most physicians and I have decades of experience managing my own type 1 diabetes. My first hand experience is that yes, timing is challenging (it is much better than it was when I first developed type 1 with Regular and NPH as the only available options). That doesn't mean type 1's should abstain from sugar. They just need to manage it properly with insulin.
Timing is an issue for non-diabetics as well, which I pointed out earlier. The spike before insulin kicks in happens to healthy individuals when they eat carbs. There is a slightly bigger spike for diabetics, but most of the same spike happens to non-diabetics too. That is the reality of eating carbs - for everybody. So don't suggest diabetics should never eat carbs unless you are going to apply the same logic to everybody else... because everybody else experiences a spike after eating carbs. So if this is the conclusion regarding BG spikes: "Type 1 diabetics shouldn't eat sugar." Then what you must conclude is really this: "No person should eat sugar." If you are willing to accept a healthy person having a BG spike after carbs before insulin takes effect, then you need to accept that type 1's will have the same spike.
FTR, I'm actually on the "everybody should limit carbs" side. It is just that the ignorance leading to suggestions that type 1's act differently is annoying. So I try my best to cure that ignorance with knowledge.
Boy, you are really hung up on the NO sugar. I'm not sure anyone ever mentioned it. Here is the comment from the initial post. "By his own admission, he eats a terrible diet loaded with sugary foods, lollies, sweets and excessive carbs". As annoying as it may be for you, being type 1 does make you different. That's not a bad thing, but it's the truth. You can eat anything you want and be just fine, but you need to be conscious of everything that you eat.
I'm with you on the lack of knowledge by most doctors. Wow!
I'm not diabetic but have done quite a bit of testing. (excess stuff) A few years after my daughter was diagnosed with type1, we tried matching carbohydrate consumption(% body weight). My bodies ability to metabolize carbohydrates was between 20% and 80% faster than hers. I never went low.0 -
BlackTimber wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »BlackTimber wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »gieshagirl wrote: »
these are type 1 diabetics. some with new diagnosis and others that have had to deal with this since they were very small. with teens, the trend with doctors is that if you say something is off limits....that is what they will sneak and do. the diabetic clinics seem to have more compliance with adjustment after eating than prohibiting certain foods. the carbs are broken down by the body into sugar....sugar impacts your system fast...(2 smarties can bring it up by 50-60 points in 10 min.) where as carbs can be slowed down by eating protein with it (but it still turns to sugar and your body perceives it like sugar and uses and stores it like sugar) and thus it makes for more blood sugar stability rather than huge swings that can harm you. type 2 diabetics have less freedom if they are diet controlled because they have to rely on their body to correct blood sugar (sometimes with oral meds for help) but they are more likely to have huge swings in sugar r/t their pancreas are trying to work where as type one their pancreas are not working at allAre these type 1's or type 2's? Why are they trying to stay away from carbs (sugar)?
Teenagers will have more BG fluctuations (and challenges) than others under similar circumstances. BG is affected by dozens of factors, including hormones.
Right, so why are they supposed to stay away from sugar? They take insulin based on carbs, so why not include those sugar carbs in their dosage calculation?
It's not that simple. The replacement insulin is not as effective as a body makes. And it's near impossible to get the timing right so you don't go very high or very low with the replacement insulin. So the typical diabetic will lean towards allowing themselves to go on the high side because the consequences of going very low are real and dangerous. Also different carbohydrates are metabolized at different rates as noted above. As a parent of a type 1 diabetic child I can tell you that there is way more going on than the simple calculation for glucose vs insulin.
So to answer your question. Yes, you just need to include any carbohydrate in your needed insulin calculation. But if you consume too many fast acting carbohydrates, you will most likely go very high before your insulin injection has any affect.
Sugar is not actually the fastest acting carbohydrate, and when my daughter was younger we didn't run away from sugar products. Check out Glycemic index and Glycemic load. I can tell you though that as she has gotten older she self regulates carbohydrates and gets much better results.
Yes, points that I made except that I didn't mention glycemic index, which has much less impact than what foods the carbs are paired with - the reason carbs from pizza often give a burst of glucose several hours later. None of that is an explanation about why a type 1 shouldn't eat sugar.
I have more education on type 1 than most physicians and I have decades of experience managing my own type 1 diabetes. My first hand experience is that yes, timing is challenging (it is much better than it was when I first developed type 1 with Regular and NPH as the only available options). That doesn't mean type 1's should abstain from sugar. They just need to manage it properly with insulin.
Timing is an issue for non-diabetics as well, which I pointed out earlier. The spike before insulin kicks in happens to healthy individuals when they eat carbs. There is a slightly bigger spike for diabetics, but most of the same spike happens to non-diabetics too. That is the reality of eating carbs - for everybody. So don't suggest diabetics should never eat carbs unless you are going to apply the same logic to everybody else... because everybody else experiences a spike after eating carbs. So if this is the conclusion regarding BG spikes: "Type 1 diabetics shouldn't eat sugar." Then what you must conclude is really this: "No person should eat sugar." If you are willing to accept a healthy person having a BG spike after carbs before insulin takes effect, then you need to accept that type 1's will have the same spike.
FTR, I'm actually on the "everybody should limit carbs" side. It is just that the ignorance leading to suggestions that type 1's act differently is annoying. So I try my best to cure that ignorance with knowledge.
Boy, you are really hung up on the NO sugar. I'm not sure anyone ever mentioned it.
Really?gieshagirl wrote: »
this is true. I am a nurse at a high school and several diabetic students...they eat what they want, try to stay away from sugar...yeah right....calculate carbs and adjust per meal. all of the diabetics at my school are on this now. since they don't adhere well to the rules....sugar....the blood sugar levels are all over the place...that being said adults seem to do very well with this.midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes, as long as he is using proper bolus doses and knows how to do the math, then a bolus type insulin can be used to cover carbs. This is what type 1's do all the time for everything they eat - whether you think the food is "healthy" or not; and regardless of weight.
On the other hand, if he is really a type 2 and overweight, it is almost certain he can improve his condition by losing weight. So while he is right as far as taking insulin to cover carbs (assuming he has the supplies and knows what he is doing), he might be better long-term by losing weight.0 -
BlackTimber wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »gieshagirl wrote: »
these are type 1 diabetics. some with new diagnosis and others that have had to deal with this since they were very small. with teens, the trend with doctors is that if you say something is off limits....that is what they will sneak and do. the diabetic clinics seem to have more compliance with adjustment after eating than prohibiting certain foods. the carbs are broken down by the body into sugar....sugar impacts your system fast...(2 smarties can bring it up by 50-60 points in 10 min.) where as carbs can be slowed down by eating protein with it (but it still turns to sugar and your body perceives it like sugar and uses and stores it like sugar) and thus it makes for more blood sugar stability rather than huge swings that can harm you. type 2 diabetics have less freedom if they are diet controlled because they have to rely on their body to correct blood sugar (sometimes with oral meds for help) but they are more likely to have huge swings in sugar r/t their pancreas are trying to work where as type one their pancreas are not working at allAre these type 1's or type 2's? Why are they trying to stay away from carbs (sugar)?
Teenagers will have more BG fluctuations (and challenges) than others under similar circumstances. BG is affected by dozens of factors, including hormones.
Right, so why are they supposed to stay away from sugar? They take insulin based on carbs, so why not include those sugar carbs in their dosage calculation?
It's not that simple. The replacement insulin is not as effective as a body makes. And it's near impossible to get the timing right so you don't go very high or very low with the replacement insulin. So the typical diabetic will lean towards allowing themselves to go on the high side because the consequences of going very low are real and dangerous. Also different carbohydrates are metabolized at different rates as noted above. As a parent of a type 1 diabetic child I can tell you that there is way more going on than the simple calculation for glucose vs insulin.
So to answer your question. Yes, you just need to include any carbohydrate in your needed insulin calculation. But if you consume too many fast acting carbohydrates, you will most likely go very high before your insulin injection has any affect.
Sugar is not actually the fastest acting carbohydrate, and when my daughter was younger we didn't run away from sugar products. Check out Glycemic index and Glycemic load. I can tell you though that as she has gotten older she self regulates carbohydrates and gets much better results.
I've had Type 1 for nearly 20 years and this is spot on. We can eat what we want, its better to not have a haribo party though as its hard to balance it out afterwards.
I also find coffee really affects me. Having coffee in the morning tends to cause a big spike even if that's the only thing I've consumed. Tea is fine, coffee isn't. Its unfortunate!!1 -
That's fascinating about coffee. Never heard that. What is going on with that?0
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