Runners Knee / Pain

robbins001 · October 2016

I need some words of encouragement that i do not have a bigger problem here.

Sunday I ran outside up and down hills 2.5 miles. I say run more of a jog with interment walk moment for 15 sec or so.

Monday of this week noticed some discomfort inside leg side under kneecap pain

I lifted Monday no legs.

I hit the row machine on Tuesday and did a little elliptical for cardio and did core.

Full rest in we'd eat nothing but steps from waking and some push-ups in my office every hour or so just to stand / activity - desk job. Normal.

Lifted today again no legs because knee is still a little sore to the touch and with some motions.

I asked the PT at the gym when I walked in she said I needed to roll my quad which I did a little. That said the concern was I asked how long runners knee should last and she indicated it should have been gone by now.

Anyone have it last long than 4 days?

How screwed am I. I love upper body workout and all but I have to get them leg days in. And I am now a little worried.

I have searched the internets a ton. But would like some personal experience from this community on duration of pain.

MeanderingMammal · October 2016

Given your description it's difficult to suggest what the issue is. There are a number of different potential causes for pain around the patella.

When I had Iliotibial Band Syndrome, that exhibits in a similar way, I had a month off running to recover

Erik8484 · October 2016

I suffer from patella femoral pain. Mine flares up due to muscle tightness, and I manage it by rolling and stretching religiously (itb, hamstrings, calf, every day).

My pain doesn't seem to go away on its own, I need to put in the effort to recover.

sarabushby · October 2016

Runners knee can take months to get better and/or never really fully go away, always requiring managing through stretching, strength work and physio etc. I wouldn't worry too much as it's only been a few days that you've felt the discomfort, focus on rest, ice and anti inflammatories then if it's still troubling you in a while seek some expert advice from a good & recomended sports physio. If you start a gentle run and the pain eases off, carry on, but if it's still there after your warm up then you're better to continue your rest.

Somebody_Loved · October 2016

I've had Runner's Knee and ITBS and had to decrease my running for a few months, with about a month off from running completely.

Now I manage as said above - tons of stretching and foam rolling, every day.

BeeerRunner · October 2016

robbins001 wrote: »

I need some words of encouragement that i do not have a bigger problem here.

Sunday I ran outside up and down hills 2.5 miles. I say run more of a jog with interment walk moment for 15 sec or so.

Monday of this week noticed some discomfort inside leg side under kneecap pain

I lifted Monday no legs.

I hit the row machine on Tuesday and did a little elliptical for cardio and did core.

Full rest in we'd eat nothing but steps from waking and some push-ups in my office every hour or so just to stand / activity - desk job. Normal.

Lifted today again no legs because knee is still a little sore to the touch and with some motions.

I asked the PT at the gym when I walked in she said I needed to roll my quad which I did a little. That said the concern was I asked how long runners knee should last and she indicated it should have been gone by now.

Anyone have it last long than 4 days?

How screwed am I. I love upper body workout and all but I have to get them leg days in. And I am now a little worried.

I have searched the internets a ton. But would like some personal experience from this community on duration of pain.

I used to experience this a lot in the past. I have arthritis in my left knee (due to other sports..not running). For me, the pain would last anywhere from a few days to 2 weeks max. I was told to rest it, ice it, and elevate it. This would help speed the recovery.

I will say that once I fixed my running form, I very rarely have knee pain. Make sure your foot is landing directly below your body. If your foot is landing in front of you, it will definitely aggravate your knees. You can google proper running form, and there are a lot of articles/videos about the topic.

Also, my doctor told me about a supplement you can take called Glucosamine that helps rebuild cartilage in your knees. I do take this religiously and I rarely have flare ups.

BasicGreatGuy · October 2016

In my opinion, the PT you briefly spoke to at the gym didn't know what she was talking about. I wouldn't waste my time asking her any other medically based questions.

As to your question, there could be multiple problems going on at the same time, that is causing the pain you spoke of.

How long have you been running, and how many miles a week do you average? How long have you been engaged in the exercise plan you noted? Have you had any other running / exercise related injuries? If so, what kind?

1. Could be gait related
2. Could be due to overuse
3. Could be trying to do too much too soon (depending on exercise history
4. Could be Chondromalacia Patella
5. Could be runner's knee
6. Could be runner's knee and ITBS
7. Could be caused by weak core muscles

As you can see, the problem you are insuring about may not be something simple. It would be best to consult a sports medicine physician or physiotherapist who deals with runners, so that you can be properly diagnosed and treated.

robbins001 · October 2016

Thank you to everyone who has replied. This is a reply to you all.

I am not a runner. Started lifting with a variation of SL 5x5 with many accessories and using the leg press over squat do to insecureities over form. Training since march (lift wise). This past 4-6 weeks started working in cardio on rest days to get a little calorie burn. Was focused solely on a 5000 meter row with 10 (max setting resistance on row machine) at a steady pace approx 21-23 min to finish the row.

Approximately 2 weeks before this past weekend since the gym is near my work which is an hour away, I go during lunch weekdays, I thought I would go for a run around the hood.

First run around the coldasac / subdivision was clocked by the Apple Watch as 2.5 miles in 23 min aka slow pace. No issue

Fast forward to this past weekend I thought I would do the same since weekend is 2 days rest might as well do a little cardio.

And you know this rest. This week right knee not happy.

After internet searches and self diagnosing I realized I have no business running because I don't know how and should have treated running like I do lifting and go into it slowly and after research.

My question is????? Do I stretch and roll but also so light strength training even if knee is sore?? Such as elliptical?

Something of note it doesn't hurt just bending. I have to or some pressure on it in the bent position. Think of the back leg of a lunge or when you kneel down to get something off the bottom shelf.

robbins001 · October 2016

It is also sore to the touch. Meaning I can press on the inside area below my knee a little and cause some pain. Not severe but noticeable and annoying.

Really gets going after the drive home in the car since it takes an hour and that is my driving leg which is an hour

thunder1982 · October 2016

Just to add, how old are your shoes? I find that my knees start to play up if my shoes are old. I would regularly wear shoes for 2 years or until the sole fell off and i was exercise 4-5 days a week. I mentioned knee pain to my bootcamp instructor and first question was how old are your shoes? She told me that with the amount of exercise I was doing I should be replacing shoes at least every 6 months.

robbins001 · October 2016

thunder1982 wrote: »

Just to add, how old are your shoes? I find that my knees start to play up if my shoes are old. I would regularly wear shoes for 2 years or until the sole fell off and i was exercise 4-5 days a week. I mentioned knee pain to my bootcamp instructor and first question was how old are your shoes? She told me that with the amount of exercise I was doing I should be replacing shoes at least every 6 months.

Several year old Nike shocks. Never used to exercise.

I have wondered if they helped contribute and keep trying to remember if I wore my chucks (converse all stars) the first run when I had no issue

AnnPT77 · October 2016

Rower here - completed level 2 USRowing coaching certification, even. If we're talking Concept 2 machines, rowers do not set resistance on 10 (except for occasional special drills). Recommended is 3-5 for women, 4-6 for men. Even elite (national team) rowers use these ranges. Unlike some other types of machines, you don't get a "better" workout via higher resistance. Instead, push harder, suspending your weight between the handle & your feet. The ultra-high resistance is not gonna help your knees. (I have problem knees, too - from way before rowing.) If you haven't, watch the technique videos on the C2 web site, and work on form, to get the best possible rower workout with least body risk. Your splits are good, but I'm betting they can be better . . . and more knee-friendly.

robbins001 · October 2016

AnnPT77 wrote: »

Rower here - completed level 2 USRowing coaching certification, even. If we're talking Concept 2 machines, rowers do not set resistance on 10 (except for occasional special drills). Recommended is 3-5 for women, 4-6 for men. Even elite (national team) rowers use these ranges. Unlike some other types of machines, you don't get a "better" workout via higher resistance. Instead, push harder, suspending your weight between the handle & your feet. The ultra-high resistance is not gonna help your knees. (I have problem knees, too - from way before rowing.) If you haven't, watch the technique videos on the C2 web site, and work on form, to get the best possible rower workout with least body risk. Your splits are good, but I'm betting they can be better . . . and more knee-friendly.

Yep that be the one. I would have named it but my memory bank couldn't see the logo. Concept 2 is exactly it.

Thank you for this piece. About the setting. As you can tell noob here.

And yes you are spot on regarding the routine. I am still figuring out what the final bits are to something that doesn't change.

I approach the gym time from a these compounds are required get that in then what sounds like fun today.

I will back off on setting and check into the references you made.

robbins001 · October 2016

Sacrificed a pampered chef pizza dough roller to roll out quad tonight.

Getting some while eyes saying if it touched my feet I have to buy her a new one

lol

robbins001 · October 2016

While = evil.

Sigh auto correct.

canadianlbs · October 2016

i do the lifts in the stronglifts lineup. i also try to run about once a year and usually end up convinced that i've torn a meniscus or something, and will never be able to lift weights again.

i can't promise your thing and my thing are the same thing, but fwiw in my case it was always about the quads. i think rectus femoris is the one that runs straight over the top of your knee and attaches somewhere high up on the shin, but whichever one it is, that's the one that would crush my kneecap and give me a few weeks of pain and freakout. that inside-edge-of-knee tender spot could be the attachment (insertion?) where the muscle is joined to the bone.

rolling is fine for temporary relief but stretching that muscle is the real bomb. a retired rmt that i lifted with for a few months gave me this weight-in-gold tip: always release the insertion and attachment points of a muscle first, and then move inwards into the 'belly'. there's a ton of info out there on the internet about anatomy, individual muscles, and how to release and stretch them.

oh . . . and a great implement for 'stripping' a muscle that's easy to reach? edge of a fresh bar of soap while you're in the shower.

canadianlbs · October 2016

as far as lifting, i usually find that any time i mess up my knees, something that emphasizes the hamstrings tends to help too. the quads and hamstrings balance each other and it sounds like right now you've got an immoderate emphasis on your quads. they're also 'antagonists' which usually means if you contract one the other one releases whether it wants to or not. it's called sympathetic inhibition. that could help your quads to calm down as well.

so i dunno if i'd squat, because i'm a wimp that way. but hamstring curls, or doing glute bridges where you adjust a little to let your hamstrings do at least part of the work, might help. other possibilities are deadlifts of any kind, maybe bottom-up box squats from below parallel (your hamstrings do a good part of the work).

robbins001 · October 2016

I am planning on going to the gym today and trying to roll, stretch, and do some type light strength training on the legs not to hurt myself but to work the muscle of hamstring and quads.

I know leg extension is bad but I can get down with the leg curl machine as well as potentially a light one legged press. I was also thinking about some correctly performed kettle bell swings for the hamstring to support deadlifts in the future. In addition while I usually see the hotties in leggings doing the bands around the ankle crab walk, perhaps some side to side motions with a little resistance will be good for me as well

real men aren't scared of a little hip work. Lord knows I don't have any. Straight up chicken leg bean pole pins on this frame lol.

Thank you again to everyone providing experience and suggestions all of it is valuable.

What is encouraging is that chances are slim that I have done any real permanent damage.

This will take effort on my part to resolve and awareness going forward.

I am becoming slightly obsessed with everything fitness related. A spark has been lit and the idea that I had injured myself within the first six months of the journey, where I have been so focused on doing exactly the opposite, well was bumming me out. I don't worry about how many "plates" I put in the bar as it is all a matter of volume and intensity and form to some degree depending on your goals. My goal is to become a better me inside and out. Not to be the strongest bro in the gym.

Thank you all and keep the information coming I am a sponge at this stage in the game and every little insight is beneficial.

Runners Knee / Pain

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