Sugar

Wannabmarathoner wrote: »

Hi everyone! So, yesterday I posted in the Food discussion board that I had decided to cut out sugar from my diet cold turkey for the next 21 days to see if I feel better, look better, have more energy, lose some weight, etc... I guess I made the mistake of saying that sugar is poison, as that statement didn't go over too well with a few folks. Anyway, that is beside the point and I am happy to report that I made it 2 days, 2 DAYS!!!without sugar!
Yes, I know vegetables even have sugar, but I'm talking about all things refined and processed and the cause of my serious weight gain over the last 6 months. I'm feeling pretty good, but tired and I have a headache, but when I stepped on the scale this morning, I was down 4 pounds just from yesterday. I know, probably mostly water weight, but it's okay...my weight will hopefully trend in the right direction now. Anyway, could use encouragement, advice, or any new friends who'd like to join me. I'm using the 21 day sugar detox. I am just following the list that I found on google images with the list of yes food and no foods!

Good luck. I have the same mindset about sugar -- my life is better without it.

My doctor told me to lower my sugar intake. I don't have diabetes but my blood sugar numbers are creeping up. My life is better without sugar (and I mean refined, processed, added sugar, not the natural sugar in fruits and vegetables). When I eat processed sugar, I crave more. It ruins my skin, too.

Here's an interesting study that appeared on CNN today. It says if you drink 2 sweetened drinks a day you double your diabetes risk:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/22/health/sweetened-drinks-double-diabetes-risk/index.html

Wannabmarathoner wrote: »

SLLRunner wrote: »

Wannabmarathoner wrote: »

WinoGelato wrote: »

Wannabmarathoner wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

When I started this stuff over four years ago, I put more emphasis on what I could add to my diet to make it better than what I needed to take away...when I focused on adding positives to my diet, the negatives just naturally fell by the way side.

No qualms at all from me in regards to cutting back on free sugars...most people could stand to do so...but I do think people tend to overemphasize eliminations vs what they can add to their diets to make them better. IMO, focusing on the positives you can add makes the experience much more enjoyable...

I guess it's kind of like focusing on the positive rather than the negative.

I like that! That's a great thought process to adopt. I tend to be the type of person who would slip up and have a bite or more of deliciousness in the breakroom at work, then decide I already screwed up for the day, so don't even try to eat healthy. I know, it's a sad state of mind. My 3rd day into this, I've consumed more vegetables and less sugar than I've had in months! This is definitely a positive!

Many people have that all or nothing mindset and when they strive for perfection and inevitably slip up, they tend to think "to heck with it I might as well eat whatever I want" or "this is just too hard, I have to give up".

This is one of the reasons I and many others here try to make sure people know you don't have to give everything up, that it is possible to eat sweets (any food really) in moderation and lose weight/be healthy. It's why I and others react so strongly when people make things like "sugar is poison" or "processed foods are bad for you" because it creates this mindset in many that feel like they have to give everything they love up, and for most people, that's just not the case.

You keep saying you are doing this to see if it helps with some symptoms and that's fine. But there are a lot of others who are new here lurking these forums who read these bold statements that sugar is bad, or you need to adhere to a list of good/bad foods in order to "detox" your body, and that's just not true.

I totally agree with you, but please realize two important points: 1. I am not telling anyone else to do this with me, and 2. I will not be doing this forever! The sugar is poison comment is something I've read and heard from several sources and the amounts I was consuming could very well have negative impact on my health. As soon as I'm finished with my 21 days, will I indulge in a delicious bagel and a pumpkin spice latte? YES! Will I share a decadent dessert with a gentleman at the end of a fabulous dinner? YES! Will I consider it poison, no, but the amount of disgusting refined grocery store bought food I was consuming was probably at poisonous levels. I'm tired of defending myself while I make positive changes. I'm sure someone will find something in here to argue about now.

I assure you, none of us are arguing with you, some of us are simply pointing out blanket comments not based in fact . There is nothing wrong with doing an elimination diet to find out what your issue is, but making the kinds of statement I put in bold is not based on any true fact that refined grocery store bought food is disgusting and has any possibility of being at poisonous levels. That is the spreading of misinformation.

Of course you should, under the supervision of your doctor and a good registered dietician, work on finding out what is making you feel badly. However, I am also pointing out the fact that refined foods with sugar in them have a whole lot of other ingredients as well, so it might not be the actual sugar but other ingredients in them that are causing problems. For example, while doing an elimination diet at two different times, I found it was was never the actual sugar causing problems but lactose, and then soy.

People with diabetes and insulin resistance often do not tolerate high levels of carbs/sugar very well, but they can still eat moderate amounts. Please consider that there could be another medical issue going on that needs attention as well.

As an RN, I know. You've driven your point home. Can you move on?

Well, I'm glad that you see my point regarding the picture picture because I wasn't sure, hence my further comments.

No thank you, I choose not to move on because I'm enjoying reading what everyone has to say, as well as participating in the discussion.

cwolfman13 wrote: »

When I started this stuff over four years ago, I put more emphasis on what I could add to my diet to make it better than what I needed to take away...when I focused on adding positives to my diet, the negatives just naturally fell by the way side.

Yeah, this is exactly what worked for me. I mostly changed the nutritional quality of my diet some years ago, and that's exactly what I did. Eventually I back-slide some (more due to depression and being sedentary and not adjusting, but also because I'd convinced myself if I ate a healthful diet I did't need to worry about amounts, which was wrong--I can overdo it even then, and also I was allowing in some high-fat things like more oil and butter than I needed, cheese, etc. in overly large amounts), so cut back again. But I find so long as I eat a good diet eating too much junk food or added sugar or whatever it's any issue -- it wouldn't fit and just isn't how I eat. I think it makes more sense to focus on things like eating lots of vegetables, good quality protein sources (whether lean meat, such as fish, which I adore, or legumes, etc.), whole foods in general.

cwolfman13 wrote: »

When I started this stuff over four years ago, I put more emphasis on what I could add to my diet to make it better than what I needed to take away...when I focused on adding positives to my diet, the negatives just naturally fell by the way side.

No qualms at all from me in regards to cutting back on free sugars...most people could stand to do so...but I do think people tend to overemphasize eliminations vs what they can add to their diets to make them better. IMO, focusing on the positives you can add makes the experience much more enjoyable...

I guess it's kind of like focusing on the positive rather than the negative.

I absolutely love this post because it reinforces my belief that the glass is always half full rather than half empty.

Wannabmarathoner wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

MamaSooz89129 wrote: »

Kudos to you and I wish you well, being sugar free for 21 days is the best decision you can make about your health. You won't be dependent on it anymore, you'll enjoy fruit and vegetables more - and you'll come to enjoy a quality treat once in awhile - and really savor it - far above a steady stream of cheap sugar thrills!

Hmm. As I mentioned in the prior thread, I have gone without added sugar for a month before, and I thought it was surprisingly easy (hardly worth all this discussion!), but also -- and why I'm posting -- it certainly did not make me enjoy fruit and veg more. That strikes me as a deeply weird claim. I loved fruit and veg before, did while avoiding added sugar, and do now (when I'm back to eating some added sugar in moderation).

The idea that one can't have a healthful diet mostly based on foods that don't include added sugar and, of course, many vegetables and fruits, unless you do a detox (which isn't a detox, as that's entirely inapplicable) or give up added sugar is so strange to me.

I'm very interested in discussing why people choose to do these short term challenges and what they get out of them (I talked about it in the other thread, although OP seemed more interested in provoking a debate about sugar). I'm also interested in talking about barriers to eating a healthful diet if people find that challenging. But the idea that if you don't eat added sugar you necessarily eat more veg or a better overall diet (or, most weirdly, enjoy veg more) is false.

Lemurcat12. I was NOT trying provoke a debate about sugar then or now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes that is the most exclamation points I've ever used! I strongly would like encouragement and motivation and never ever intended to stir up the drama you have encouraged and still are encouraging. Moving on........

Hmm. How am I trying to stir up drama? (I think the poster I responded to above was doing that.) You purported in the other thread to be interested if anyone else had cut out added sugar and what their experiences were, and so I contributed mine. From what you've said, it sounds as if one of your issues (which wasn't mine) was not eating a nutrient-dense diet or vegetables or whatever, and I'd say that doing that is a great thing and entirely independent from cutting out added sugar. I also think there can be benefits to cutting out added sugar -- which really doesn't require a list of foods, which makes it sound as if whatever you are doing its something else, but whatever -- as I keep saying and have explained from my own experiences, but benefits ARE NOT removing poison (fructose and glucose are, well, fructose and glucose, and they are in fruit too, which is obviously not poison) and ARE NOT that it's impossible to have a healthful diet without doing it.

If you want encouragement for this experiment, I'm happy to contribute it, and if you want to chat about the benefits of challenges or what you get out of them, I'm interested, as I said (to zero response, since as I said I don't actually think is what you were looking for), I'm also interested. I find experimenting with different food things helpful and interesting too.

To answer your question, short challenges are fun for me. Be it a 30- day plank challenge, or no Facebook for one year, or run one mile every day for a month, whatever it is, I love them! It feels gratifying for me to reach the goal! I'm very goal oriented in work and in my personal life. I always strive to be better than I was yesterday. I am trying to get to the root of some health concerns so cutting out simple sugars for 21 days is simply my way to be a better person and to experiment.

Many of those challenges are not my thing (I don't think doing daily planks vs. a more sensible training program makes sense), but I do get it and to some extent feel the same way (as I said both here and in the other thread).

Not sure how not eating added sugar (you AREN'T cutting out simple sugars, as they are in fruit, veg, and dairy), makes one a better person, but if it helps you get your diet on track is is a will-power or "can I do this" thing, I again get it. I mean, I did a similar thing myself (although I don't think it made me a better person--I'd say there are other things I work on for that).

Now with my experience with you and a few folks here, I will get backlash 'so you're saying I'm a bad person because I eat sugar?' NO! This isn't about you! It is about me and I'm here to get a little encouragement and not be backed in a corner to explain everything I say!

This isn't backlash. I do think you are confusing various things -- one isn't a better person because one cuts out added sugar (something that is trivially easy to do for a while, vs. actually working on being a good person -- what always shocks me is how people act like it's some huge hard thing). More significantly, and what I mentioned in the other thread (guess it made you mad, but I never got to see your response, if any), is that it doesn't really determine if you have a good diet or not. Can it be helpful for other reasons? Of course, as I keep saying.

I totally support your efforts to cut out added sugar for a while (as I would anyone who decided to improve her diet by cutting down on sugary snacks or sweets, even though I happen to agree with cwolfman's approach to improving one's diet). I also support your efforts to improve your diet overall, as I think you are also doing. And I also enjoy challenges or setting goals and seeing if I can do them. I think it that was what this thread (and the other) was really about there'd be less drama, but who knows, I could be wrong.

I'm honestly confused why you are seeing my posts as critical of what you are doing as I keep saying I'm all for it. That's what makes me think that maybe you want to provoke a debate, since I've maybe committed the sin of saying a no added sugar challenge can be worthwhile, but that I don't think it means someone has a better diet than those eating moderate amounts of added sugar (and definitely isn't required to fit in vegetables or to enjoy them -- I think it's just normal and responsible to eat and enjoy vegetables, and doesn't take a challenge -- I know you didn't say this, it was the post I was responding to that I was taking issue with).

OP, hope you get to the bottom of what your issues are.

I lived without sugar for a very, very long time.

Now that I have it back in my life, I can't say I feel any different. In fact, I feel better now due to having reached a healthy weight and being in the habit of regular exercise.

One thing that concerned me reading this thread was hearing about your past struggles with that all or nothing type of mentality.

I'd urge you to use your time during your challenge to dig a little deeper into why you feel like you need to throw in the towel if you "slip up".

Setting moral values on a food and expectations on yourself and then caving in when you fail is self-sabotaging behavior that can hinder your progress towards your goals. While it's easy to say that sugar or potato chips (or whatever one's kryptonite is) themselves are the thing that is so alluring that we just can't help ourselves, ultimately, we're responsible for making the choice to go that extra step that throws in the towel and goes all out past a small indulgence into over indulgence.

I won't try to advise you not to do what you plan to do. I just urge you to think deeper about why you're doing it.

Best of luck.

Wannabmarathoner wrote: »

... I wish I could make my point. I'm getting more stressed trying to validate myself here.

Have you tried the alternative I sent you the private message about the other day? By now you should be realizing that happens here, EVERY SINGLE TIME someone talks about sugar, carbs or keto.

cwolfman13 wrote: »

When I started this stuff over four years ago, I put more emphasis on what I could add to my diet to make it better than what I needed to take away...when I focused on adding positives to my diet, the negatives just naturally fell by the way side.

No qualms at all from me in regards to cutting back on free sugars...most people could stand to do so...but I do think people tend to overemphasize eliminations vs what they can add to their diets to make them better. IMO, focusing on the positives you can add makes the experience much more enjoyable...

I guess it's kind of like focusing on the positive rather than the negative.

I think more people should think like this--not dwell on what they might be limiting in their diet, but focus instead on all the things they're adding.

Personally, with the history of diabetes and other often controllable diseases like high blood pressure and heart disease, I do watch my added sugars and simple carbs (and sodium). But I'm also lucky to not have much of a sweet tooth. And I never cared much for condiments like salad dressings or ketchup which often have a lot of added sugar.

That being said, I love my potatoes and rice, but in moderation. Since I lost my 100 pounds, I've found so many yummy foods I've forgotten what I cut out. My diet is so much more rich and balanced now.

I've found what works for me and hope that others find a road to health they can stay on for the long trip.

Ooooh. Sugar gets some people on these boards all riled up!! Forget what the naysayers are saying to you. I have mostly cut out sugar (I eat between 10-15g a day) and the sugar I DO eat comes from fruits and. Veggies ...And I have lost weight and I CERTAINLY am not eating at a calorie. deficit. I feel better, I'm not having energy spikes and drops, sleep better, not sore all the time, not foggy headed, Some people like to spew out what they can quickly google to benefit "the lurkers" ...please... you do what works for you, be healthy about it and remember, everyone is different and everyone's BODY will react differently. Interesting side note: I cut out sugar and my fat (mostly all healthy fats) is always over and I've managed to lose 39 lbs. so far. go figure. I was attacked for a sugar post once as well. It sucks to be talked down to when you are looking for inspiration, motivation, whatever. Good luck to you

LAC73167 wrote: »

Ooooh. Sugar gets some people on these boards all riled up!! Forget what the naysayers are saying to you. I have mostly cut out sugar (I eat between 10-15g a day) and the sugar I DO eat comes from fruits and. Veggies ...And I have lost weight and I CERTAINLY am not eating at a calorie. deficit. I feel better, I'm not having energy spikes and drops, sleep better, not sore all the time, not foggy headed, Some people like to spew out what they can quickly google to benefit "the lurkers" ...please... you do what works for you, be healthy about it and remember, everyone is different and everyone's BODY will react differently. Interesting side note: I cut out sugar and my fat (mostly all healthy fats) is always over and I've managed to lose 39 lbs. so far. go figure. I was attacked for a sugar post once as well. It sucks to be talked down to when you are looking for inspiration, motivation, whatever. Good luck to you

Care to elaborate on the bolded? You are losing weight and not eating at a calorie deficit?

WinoGelato wrote: »

ChaleGirl wrote: »

I always find it so interesting when some people on these boards try to say there are no bad foods. There actually are. Refined sugar is actually not good for you. Yes we all like it,but cakes, chocolate etc are bad for you. Well done for cutting down on the processed sugar. I'm sure your body will thank you for it!!

Why are those foods bad for you? If you eat cakes and chocolate in moderation, in the context of a healthy diet that includes a balanced nutritional profile, how are they "bad"?

I had peaches that were going bad, so I much homemade peach pie crumble. It was bad.

I edited my post for clarity.

ChaleGirl wrote: »

I always find it so interesting when some people on these boards try to say there are no bad foods. There actually are. Refined sugar is actually not good for you.

Unfortunately you are directly bringing up what I thought this thread was not supposed to be about. Having done that, of course it's necessary to respond as you are spreading bad information.

Yes, some foods contribute fewer other nutrients and more calories than others, but that doesn't make them "bad" for many of us. It means that a diet based on too many of them and too few nutrients (including protein, healthy fats, fiber) overall is a bad diet. No one has suggested that all diets are equally good, but obviously one has to be an idiot or lying to one's self to think that if no foods are independently bad that a diet based on only cake would be a good diet. I bet the people who say "no bad foods" eat more veg on average (and have done so for longer) than the people who insist on good and bad foods -- I often see it in people who admit they have to work to get themselves to eat a healthful diet at all.

Anyway, back to sugar: the "refined" sugar is a cake is sucrose, which is made up of fructose and glucose. The sugar is refined in that it is removed from a plant -- typically cane sugar, often beets too. I suppose there are cakes with HFCS also (which is also fructose and glucose, in a different combination, anyway), but as someone picky about my cakes, I haven't run into that. I don't use it when I bake.

So, no, on its own sugar in a sweet isn't meaningfully different from the sugar in fruit. Does that mean there are no differences between cake and an apple? Of course not. But if you claim it's the sugar you don't actually know what they are -- the sugar is the most similar part about them.

Yes we all like it,but cakes, chocolate etc are bad for you. Well done for cutting down on the processed sugar. I'm sure your body will thank you for it!!

No, in moderation as part of an overall healthful diet, cake and chocolate is not bad for you.

Also, as I noted in one of the other sugar threads, I'm currently drinking a drink made from ground cocoa beans instead of my morning coffee. It has a few more calories, but no sugar, so clearly chocolate does not inherently have a thing to do with sugar. (Most chocolate we consume has sugar and fat, of course, which is why it's high cal.)

But anyway, let's focus on the cake (for the record, cake seems to have a higher sugar to total carb ratio than other sweet baked goods). I found an entry for a chocolate cake in the database: 356 calories, 31 g of sugar, 43 g of total carbs, 19 g fat. What this means is that about 172 calories are from carbs (or about 48%) and 171 from fat (often sat fat) or, again, 48%. The amount of sugar is about the same as two apples. So, if the sugar is the same, is that cake the same as eating two apples? No, of course not -- the apple has different (and generally more) micronutrients and fiber, the cake has way more calories (probably more than twice as much), due to all that fat, mostly. Seems to me the biggest difference between the cake and apples is fiber and fat, then, not sugar at all. Yet you are claiming sugar is the difference and the problem and why cake (and not an apple) would be a "bad" food and bad for our health. Seems weird and not evidence based at all.

Oh, and again, exactly no one is recommending that people base their diet on cake or not think of lowering cake consumption (if it's a lot -- I can't think of a time when cake was other than a rare treat for me) as part of overall lowering calories.

Apologies to OP for going a bit off topic, but it was required to respond to the post I addressed (not from OP), which spread bad information and did so with quite an aggressive and attacking tone.

LAC73167 wrote: »

I don't know how that got bolded lol. ... but sure... I should've explained that a little better...what I meant to explain was that I'm eating enough calories to not be unhealthy. I use a fitness tracker and sometimes eat back my exercise calories and sometimes I don't / what I was trying to express was I'm never starving myself -sometimes I go over sometime to go under but I'm still losing weight and I'm still being healthy. I am eating at a deficit to lose weight but I was referring to a post above that basically used the term sayin OP was not eating enough food to be healthy or that's how I read it.

LAC73167 wrote: »

I don't know how that got bolded lol. ... but sure... I should've explained that a little better...what I meant to explain was that I'm eating enough calories to not be unhealthy. I use a fitness tracker and sometimes eat back my exercise calories and sometimes I don't / what I was trying to express was I'm never starving myself -sometimes I go over sometime to go under but I'm still losing weight and I'm still being healthy. I am eating at a deficit to lose weight but I was referring to a post above that basically used the term sayin OP was not eating enough food to be healthy or that's how I read it.

Thanks for clarifying. I actually bolded it, it helps to focus on a specific part of a response when quoting.

I understand now, you are eating intuitively and by doing so, you are able to eat in a calorie deficit in order to lose weight, without specifically focusing on the calorie amounts. Makes sense, and good for you, a lot of people can't do that! As long as your deficit isn't too big and you aren't losing too quickly, keep it up! I personally alway eat back those exercise calories but I know not everyone does.