Low fat diets are a sham
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cwolfman13 wrote: »I like how people think fat is universally satiating. I think most people realize that dietary fat is essential to a healthy diet...that doesn't mean one needs to go all out fat to be healthy...IMO, that's just as extreme as going the other way.
There's this really cool thing called a balanced, nutrient rich diet...perhaps your grandmother told you about it once upon a time.
Yep. Fat is not satiating to me. When it comes to satiation, 300 calories of eggplant and rice (about 400 g) are much more satiating to me than 300 calories of fried eggplants (about 150 g), and I'm not even going to mention potato chips vs boiled potatoes.
That article is silly. It first gave us an anecdote of one person who ate a certain way that was satiating to her, then generalized it for everyone. Then it acted as if people are still warring against fat (the vast majority isn't, we have a new villain in town called carbs), then it made the same mistake it was trying to challenge (vilifying a macronutrient).
Although saturated fats have not been shown to be harmful, personally I try to moderate their intake because 1) some other types of fat are more beneficial, so saturated fats are worse in comparison and 2) most of the high saturated fat dishes I like are cooked in ways that produce a maillard reaction in animal sources (like grilled meat), which I try not to overdo.4 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »(I think I had that on hand from a past discussion! ;-) And in all fairness, banana companies have been pretty morally-questionable historically, of course, but I wouldn't blame "carbs" for that.)
Btw, it is also an interesting read the guest post she recently wrote for authority nutrition
https://authoritynutrition.com/4-reasons-some-do-well-as-vegans/
That explains also why some people do better on HCLF0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »That article lacks nuance and ignores the data from places that thrive on low-fat intake like the Blue Zones.
Meh.
There is more than one way to skin a cat.
You do you. I'll stick with my low fat diet rich in fruit and veg and low fat sources of protein, and yes, whole grains. For me, doing this has successfully dealt with my familial high cholesterol.
I really don't see the constant need for there to be a "winner" in this ongoing discussion of macronutrient intake.
Also? I don't find fat satiating in the least. Fiber, protein, and starch do it for me.
This1 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »(I think I had that on hand from a past discussion! ;-) And in all fairness, banana companies have been pretty morally-questionable historically, of course, but I wouldn't blame "carbs" for that.)
Btw, it is also an interesting read the guest post she recently wrote for authority nutrition
https://authoritynutrition.com/4-reasons-some-do-well-as-vegans/
That explains also why some people do better on HCLF
The key here being "some people."3 -
low fat, high fat, low carb, high carb, keto, plaeo, gluten free(for non celiacs) they are all a "sham" in the sense none is better or magic or perfect. Personal preference and not caring how people eat for the win.9
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fibonacci11235 wrote: »http://time.com/96626/6-facts-about-saturated-fat-that-will-astound-you/
No single study has ever conclusively proven that increased fat intake leads to cardiac events. Sure, fatty foods have a lot of calories and can make you gain weight, but that's it if you can't control your portions. In fact, consuming fatty foods often makes you feel more satiated than when you consume low fat foods filled with sugar. The government and nutritionists have demonized fats for decades based on faulty conclusions and weak science, and since that time food makers have made everything low in fats and replaced them with sugar. The result has been an upward trend in obesity that keeps on continuing. No thanks. You'll find full fat whole milk yogurt, cheese, butter, bacon, and the like in my fridge. I don't feel guilty about eating them at all either and lost 16 lbs with portion control and exercise.
This is true. LFHC diets were based on fluff, cherry picked science, at best. Guidelines to reduce fat wasn't based on much, and ended up being bastardized into easy food (like) products like snackwells. I don't think the guidelines to cut fat helped anybody.
I do agree that LFHC can be a good option for people. A healthy option. I think the key to a healthy HFLC diet is to keep it whole foods based. As unrefined as possible while avoiding ultraprocessed food like items.
I don't think many would argue that diet based on lots of veggies, mainly greens, is bad for people.
There are exceptions of course.
https://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/ While I found the previous link fascinating, I cringe at the idea of a diet based in rice, sugar, and juice. That's how I ate while I developed my insulin resistance. My fats were not very high (but higher than <10%) nor was my protein high. I KNOW that if I eat that way I will get blood glucose swings and my reactive hypoglycemia will become symptomatic again. And my FBG? I'm not willing to even try an 80% carb diet That is based in sugar, rice and juice to begin with. I would be so ill... So exceptions. That might work for some, perhaps those who developed IR just because they got fat, but most likely not for people like me who got fat after developing IR.
A LCHF diet works better for me. A LCHF diet that is mainly whole food based, although not to the extent that a healthy LFHC diet seems to need to be. Plus I don't have to deal with the stomach upset and BM issues that arise for me in a plant based diet.Gianfranco_R wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »(I think I had that on hand from a past discussion! ;-) And in all fairness, banana companies have been pretty morally-questionable historically, of course, but I wouldn't blame "carbs" for that.)
Btw, it is also an interesting read the guest post she recently wrote for authority nutrition
https://authoritynutrition.com/4-reasons-some-do-well-as-vegans/
That explains also why some people do better on HCLF
Very interesting.0 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »(I think I had that on hand from a past discussion! ;-) And in all fairness, banana companies have been pretty morally-questionable historically, of course, but I wouldn't blame "carbs" for that.)
Btw, it is also an interesting read the guest post she recently wrote for authority nutrition
https://authoritynutrition.com/4-reasons-some-do-well-as-vegans/
That explains also why some people do better on HCLF
That was a really good read. Thanks for posting it. I had heard that research was pointing to a genetic component being behind people doing better going either higher carb vs. higher fat. Some of what Denise said here seemed to shed some light on that.0 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »(I think I had that on hand from a past discussion! ;-) And in all fairness, banana companies have been pretty morally-questionable historically, of course, but I wouldn't blame "carbs" for that.)
Btw, it is also an interesting read the guest post she recently wrote for authority nutrition
https://authoritynutrition.com/4-reasons-some-do-well-as-vegans/
That explains also why some people do better on HCLF
The key here being "some people."
Yup.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »It also helps that the US government subsidizes the sugar and high carb food industries, who in turn are able to fund the studies of these so-called experts with big titles.
So the government is subsidizing my legumes and lentils and whatnot? I eat a substantially plant based diet...I'm pretty friggin' healthy...
No, allow me to rephrase: simple carb:-) Better now??? thanks!1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Seriously, here's a very long but good read about not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Don't be put off by the title of the blog. This woman knows what she's talking about and cites good sources:
https://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/
I have no issues with low fat diets for those it works for. It isn't working for most people I know and I know a lot of former vegans who have gone high fat and a lot of their personal health issues resolved by having a fat fueled diet. That said , it's a nice article.0 -
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On the other hand, reducing fat is something I did when losing weight and it resulted in a MORE satiating diet for me, since experimentation shows that adding more olive oil/butter than I need, eating fattier meats, or full fat dairy doesn't make a meal more satisfying or filling for me. (Including good cheese and some delicious foods like ice cream does make my diet overall more sustainable, though, and so does steak and lamb chops, etc.) Mostly what I do is reduce oils/fattier cuts of meat (didn't eat these on a regular basis anyway, though), use cheese more sparingly, reduce extras (like fried things, sweets, restaurant foods) which tend to have lots of fat, among other things, and reduce starches that I don't care about but sometimes eat mindlessly (overly large servings of pasta and rice, bread on the table, a sandwich when I'd rather have it without the bread, a meal with two starch courses, like bread AND potatoes) -- none of that was a regular issue for me, but could be something especially when going out that I'd consume without thinking.
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I think that unless somebody is really aiming for a ketogenic diet in order to lose weight or control cravings that a high fat diet is probably no better than any other high calories diet. So, yes, if somebody isn't interested in a ketogenic lifestyle, a very easy way to reduce calories (which the vast majority of westerners benefit from), is to cut out the fat without compromising the benefits of soluble fiber, complex carbs, Etc.
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Seriously, here's a very long but good read about not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Don't be put off by the title of the blog. This woman knows what she's talking about and cites good sources:
https://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/
What an interesting read. The Kempner rice and sugar diet and the results his patients were able to achieve need to be plastered all over every single "sugar/carb make you fat" thread as an example of how a reduced calorie diet results in weight loss regardless of macros or sugar content.2 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Seriously, here's a very long but good read about not throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Don't be put off by the title of the blog. This woman knows what she's talking about and cites good sources:
https://rawfoodsos.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/
What an interesting read. The Kempner rice and sugar diet and the results his patients were able to achieve need to be plastered all over every single "sugar/carb make you fat" thread as an example of how a reduced calorie diet results in weight loss regardless of macros or sugar content.
I hesitate to bring Kempner into discussions because he was a thoroughly horrible human being.
Still, the results speak for themselves.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »It also helps that the US government subsidizes the sugar and high carb food industries, who in turn are able to fund the studies of these so-called experts with big titles.
So the government is subsidizing my legumes and lentils and whatnot? I eat a substantially plant based diet...I'm pretty friggin' healthy...
No, allow me to rephrase: simple carb:-) Better now??? thanks!
So all the fruit I eat then.... Gotcha.2 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »It also helps that the US government subsidizes the sugar and high carb food industries, who in turn are able to fund the studies of these so-called experts with big titles.
So the government is subsidizing my legumes and lentils and whatnot? I eat a substantially plant based diet...I'm pretty friggin' healthy...
No, allow me to rephrase: simple carb:-) Better now??? thanks!
So all the fruit I eat then.... Gotcha.
BigApple.5 -
There should probably be a separate thread on ag subsidies, in all seriousness (there are some like @tomteboda who may wish to comment, as I know she's had things to say in the past).
However, the idea that ag subsidies and carbs go along with each other ignores how a lot of the products of industrial farming are actually used. For example, my state has endless fields of alternating soybeans and corn, but that doesn't become tofu or edamame or even corn on the cob (oh, the horror of all those carbs!). It feeds livestock (and is a part of why meat in the US is comparatively cheap), it's made into oil and used in lots of processed products (that are often as high in fat as carbs). And sure, it's in HFCS, which is in soda, but it's not like the gov't was ever, for one instant, promoting high soda diets (back when low fat was actually pushed people also drank less soda--for example, in the '80s when I was a kid it was a special treat, not something you'd drink all day, especially not kids).2 -
fibonacci11235 wrote: »http://time.com/96626/6-facts-about-saturated-fat-that-will-astound-you/
No single study has ever conclusively proven that increased fat intake leads to cardiac events. Sure, fatty foods have a lot of calories and can make you gain weight, but that's it if you can't control your portions. In fact, consuming fatty foods often makes you feel more satiated than when you consume low fat foods filled with sugar. The government and nutritionists have demonized fats for decades based on faulty conclusions and weak science, and since that time food makers have made everything low in fats and replaced them with sugar. The result has been an upward trend in obesity that keeps on continuing. No thanks. You'll find full fat whole milk yogurt, cheese, butter, bacon, and the like in my fridge. I don't feel guilty about eating them at all either and lost 16 lbs with portion control and exercise.
I've lost 50lbs while eating fatty AND sugary foods, it's a win win
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Of course people CAN lose weight if they eat low fat, but I don't prefer that. I've switched to full-fat foods and I feel so much fuller for longer than when I was on the eat as many veggies and as much protein as you can train. Plus I think fats make food taste so much better, it's much easier for me to stick to a diet with fat.0
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BrunetteRunner87 wrote: »Of course people CAN lose weight if they eat low fat, but I don't prefer that. I've switched to full-fat foods and I feel so much fuller for longer than when I was on the eat as many veggies and as much protein as you can train. Plus I think fats make food taste so much better, it's much easier for me to stick to a diet with fat.
You could literally insert carbs in place of fats and butter in place of veggies and it would describe me. Bottom line, it's all preference which is why the OPs article is bunk.5 -
Different strokes and all that ...
Fatty foods used to taste good but usually made me feel sick and bloated. Veggies and whole grain foods easily fill me up without any of the nasty side effects.
Do what works for you.0
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