Minimum Calorie Requirement? Why?
cthakkar1985
Posts: 137 Member
So I've seen on these threads that generally people recommend women shouldn't go lower than 1,200 calories/day and men shouldn't go below 1,500 calories/day. What is the reason for this? If I'm eating nutritious foods and I feel full, what's wrong if I go lower than that? I'm lifting too so I think I'd be preserving muscle. People always say that your body will go into "starvation mode", but there's a lot of articles I've read that say that's a myth. Any insight is much appreciated.
2
Replies
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It's very difficult to get enough protein and other essential nutrients on extremely low calorie diets. Even lifting will not preserve muscle in the absence of sufficient protein.11
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I've seen recommendations of 1 gram/pound of lean body mass. My LBM is 140lb so I have my macros at 150g protein, 50g carbs (mostlly from veggies/some fruit), 45g fat which would put me at ~1,200 calories/day. This is on days where I'm not lifting. Days that I'm lifting (3-4 days/week), I'm eating 1,800 calories with more carbs. Basically, I'm carb cycling. This seems to work for me, but I'm hesitant to continue given what the general consensus seems to be i.e. starvation mode, etc.0
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"Determining a safe minimum amount of daily calories can be difficult as well for the same reasons listed above. However, extreme restriction of consumed calories can significantly slow the metabolic rate, and hinder your weight-loss goals. The American College of Sports Medicine states that you shouldn't send signals to your body to conserve calories by detoxing or fasting. They recommend that women should eat at least 1,200 calories per day, and men should eat at least 1,800.
The reason that the metabolic rate slows with prolonged dieting of less than 1,200 calories per day is a chain reaction of physiologic responses to the stress associated with such a restricted diet. Your body initially adapts to the stress of low caloric intake by engaging the "fight or flight" stress response, which has several negative consequences, despite you seeing lower numbers on the scale. The "fight or flight" response stimulates the breakdown of muscle in order to supply the body with enough fuel (glucose) to maintain the blood sugar levels in the absence of sufficient dietary calories. This "fight or flight" stress response will eventually wear out, thus slowing the metabolic rate to compensate for what the body perceives as starvation."
From article
http://www.popsugar.com/fitness/Why-1200-Calories-Day-Important-When-Dieting-130808648 -
To be honest if you're finding it hard to get to 1200 calories and you're lifting you won't be lifting for long!13
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Tighten up your logging. 1500 calories isn't much food for a guy.
Even if you are logging correctly, and even if you feel full, it's not a good idea. A too large deficit will lead to eating away on your precious muscles. Your body can only metabolize a certain amount of fat per pound of fatty tissue per day. And you can only keep up undereating for a while, then you crash and binge and wipe out all your effort. Of course, that's what most people do, but you are smarter than that
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why would anyone personally choose to eat low ? its not sustainable .. or healthy (lack of nutrients)... and without enough calories there would be a lack of energy...
believe me the number of posts I've seen with people losing their hair and lacking energy/tired all the time and all because they were eating too low cal.
If your wanting to see muscle growth you need to eat more than 1500 calories - for a guy that will barely fuel your organs let alone promote any type of muscle growth.
The key is to eat as much as possible and still lose imo.
Its not a race, we have to see weight loss as a rest of our life kind of thing - the changes we make now have to be longterm.
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cthakkar1985 wrote: »I've seen recommendations of 1 gram/pound of lean body mass. My LBM is 140lb so I have my macros at 150g protein, 50g carbs (mostlly from veggies/some fruit), 45g fat which would put me at ~1,200 calories/day. This is on days where I'm not lifting. Days that I'm lifting (3-4 days/week), I'm eating 1,800 calories with more carbs. Basically, I'm carb cycling. This seems to work for me, but I'm hesitant to continue given what the general consensus seems to be i.e. starvation mode, etc.
And closed diary.
Starvation mode as talked about on the forums is a myth. But there are a whole lot of other valid reasons for not having a large calorie deficit.1 -
If some days you are having 1800 and others 1200 and its averaging out to 1500 a day looking at the whole week - and if this is working for you in that you find it sustainable and not torturous - then okay. You're then hitting the recommended minimum.
As others have mentioned, you're unlikely to gain any muscle. But if that's not your current goal, if you are only wanting to sustain muscle while losing fat, then okay.3 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »cthakkar1985 wrote: »I've seen recommendations of 1 gram/pound of lean body mass. My LBM is 140lb so I have my macros at 150g protein, 50g carbs (mostlly from veggies/some fruit), 45g fat which would put me at ~1,200 calories/day. This is on days where I'm not lifting. Days that I'm lifting (3-4 days/week), I'm eating 1,800 calories with more carbs. Basically, I'm carb cycling. This seems to work for me, but I'm hesitant to continue given what the general consensus seems to be i.e. starvation mode, etc.
And closed diary.
Starvation mode as talked about on the forums is a myth. But there are a whole lot of other valid reasons for not having a large calorie deficit.
"Starvation mode" might be the wrong terminology. There are a lot of sources that admit that there is such a thing as adaptive thermogenesis. The body can slow down processes to accomodate a long term lower calorie level.5 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »cthakkar1985 wrote: »I've seen recommendations of 1 gram/pound of lean body mass. My LBM is 140lb so I have my macros at 150g protein, 50g carbs (mostlly from veggies/some fruit), 45g fat which would put me at ~1,200 calories/day. This is on days where I'm not lifting. Days that I'm lifting (3-4 days/week), I'm eating 1,800 calories with more carbs. Basically, I'm carb cycling. This seems to work for me, but I'm hesitant to continue given what the general consensus seems to be i.e. starvation mode, etc.
And closed diary.
Starvation mode as talked about on the forums is a myth. But there are a whole lot of other valid reasons for not having a large calorie deficit.
"Starvation mode" might be the wrong terminology. There are a lot of sources that admit that there is such a thing as adaptive thermogenesis. The body can slow down processes to accomodate a long term lower calorie level.
Absolutely! However this only occurs over long (14 weeks plus I believe) and with a severe caloric deficit.1 -
I went on a 1200 calorie diet. It worked for about 6 months but lowered my maintenance level down to 1500. It has taken 18 months of reverse dieting to get it back up a couple hundred calories (thankfully reversible over time). I don't ever plan to go that low again. But I am almost 5'8" so I don't think 1200 was ever high enough to begin with. But my body did adapt to the low calories by slowing me down.6
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Most people reporting feeling full at 1200 calories seem to log inappropriately, and are probably eating more. If you're working out and trying to preserve muscle, you don't really need to eat that little unless you're very short and very fat.3
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Eating low one day here and there: no concern. But if you're consistently eating at a very low calorie level, then its very difficult to get enough nutrition to meet your body's needs. Exceptions of course for someone who is very petite and/or under a doctor/dietician's care.cthakkar1985 wrote: »So I've seen on these threads that generally people recommend women shouldn't go lower than 1,200 calories/day and men shouldn't go below 1,500 calories/day. What is the reason for this? If I'm eating nutritious foods and I feel full, what's wrong if I go lower than that? I'm lifting too so I think I'd be preserving muscle. People always say that your body will go into "starvation mode", but there's a lot of articles I've read that say that's a myth. Any insight is much appreciated.
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If some days you are having 1800 and others 1200 and its averaging out to 1500 a day looking at the whole week - and if this is working for you in that you find it sustainable and not torturous - then okay. You're then hitting the recommended minimum.
As others have mentioned, you're unlikely to gain any muscle. But if that's not your current goal, if you are only wanting to sustain muscle while losing fat, then okay.
^^ This
3-4 days you are eating 1800 = 6300
3-4 days you are eating 1200 = 4200
10500 / 7 = 1500 average a day
That works out at the minimum.
I wouldn't chose to eat that low and I'm a small female at 5ft4 but you won't be harming yourself to do so as long as the majority of your calories are used on nutrient dense foods.
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cthakkar1985 wrote: »I've seen recommendations of 1 gram/pound of lean body mass. My LBM is 140lb so I have my macros at 150g protein, 50g carbs (mostlly from veggies/some fruit), 45g fat which would put me at ~1,200 calories/day. This is on days where I'm not lifting. Days that I'm lifting (3-4 days/week), I'm eating 1,800 calories with more carbs. Basically, I'm carb cycling. This seems to work for me, but I'm hesitant to continue given what the general consensus seems to be i.e. starvation mode, etc.
it's not just about macros, it's about energy, macros, micros.
And as a lifter you should know better.
You are eating about the same as me and I am a woman who is older...and I am a lifter..
I lose on a gross amount of 2k calories...net of 1800 easily, about 1/2lb a week.
Why would you eat so little? are you punishing yourself for gaining weight?
imagine how you would feel with the proper amount of calories in your body while lifting...9 -
To build muscle carbs and protein are important. Eat healthy sources and some healthy fats.2
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cthakkar1985 wrote: »I've seen recommendations of 1 gram/pound of lean body mass. My LBM is 140lb so I have my macros at 150g protein, 50g carbs (mostlly from veggies/some fruit), 45g fat which would put me at ~1,200 calories/day. This is on days where I'm not lifting. Days that I'm lifting (3-4 days/week), I'm eating 1,800 calories with more carbs. Basically, I'm carb cycling. This seems to work for me, but I'm hesitant to continue given what the general consensus seems to be i.e. starvation mode, etc.
it's not just about macros, it's about energy, macros, micros.
And as a lifter you should know better.
You are eating about the same as me and I am a woman who is older...and I am a lifter..
I lose on a gross amount of 2k calories...net of 1800 easily, about 1/2lb a week.
Why would you eat so little? are you punishing yourself for gaining weight?
imagine how you would feel with the proper amount of calories in your body while lifting...
Sorry, I should clarify my question. My goal right now is to lose fat (2lbs/week) and preserve muscle. I'm not new to weightlifting, so it will be difficult for me to put on muscle and lose fat at the same time.
Over the course of a month, I typically average ~2,000 calories/day. I allow myself cheat days, I also will eat more on certain days where I'm feeling fatigued and don't have enough energy to lift properly, etc.
My question is more around if it is harmful to have a day or 2 per week where I'm eating pretty low (~1,200 cals). I would never go more than 2 days in a row with eating as little as 1,200. There are just certain days where I'm not lifting, just busy with other stuff, and feel fine eating only 1,200 calories. Is there anything wrong with this?0 -
No, it's not harmful. Continue. Your average calorie intake is fine. Eating less on occasional days will not be harmful.5
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3dogsrunning wrote: »cthakkar1985 wrote: »I've seen recommendations of 1 gram/pound of lean body mass. My LBM is 140lb so I have my macros at 150g protein, 50g carbs (mostlly from veggies/some fruit), 45g fat which would put me at ~1,200 calories/day. This is on days where I'm not lifting. Days that I'm lifting (3-4 days/week), I'm eating 1,800 calories with more carbs. Basically, I'm carb cycling. This seems to work for me, but I'm hesitant to continue given what the general consensus seems to be i.e. starvation mode, etc.
And closed diary.
Starvation mode as talked about on the forums is a myth. But there are a whole lot of other valid reasons for not having a large calorie deficit.
"Starvation mode" might be the wrong terminology. There are a lot of sources that admit that there is such a thing as adaptive thermogenesis. The body can slow down processes to accomodate a long term lower calorie level.
Yes.
I was referring to the "if you eat too little your body holds onto everything and won't lose weight" "starvation mode".
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Do you weigh your food? If not, it's very likely you're eating more than you think. A man who lifts should lose weight on an average of 2000 cals/day not maintain on that amount. I suspect you're underestimating your calories.0
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My friend wrote a book about exactly this! Body composition is all about preserving lean muscle and losing fat, if you just want to lose weight, you might even look worse!
She asked for me to share the link with you here because she thought it would be helpful as she's used it with tons of her clients already. Diet is supposed to enhance our life, not control it.
Take a look if you like here:
http://amzn.to/2biy195-6 -
Pandabug93 wrote: »"Determining a safe minimum amount of daily calories can be difficult as well for the same reasons listed above. However, extreme restriction of consumed calories can significantly slow the metabolic rate, and hinder your weight-loss goals. The American College of Sports Medicine states that you shouldn't send signals to your body to conserve calories by detoxing or fasting. They recommend that women should eat at least 1,200 calories per day, and men should eat at least 1,800.
The reason that the metabolic rate slows with prolonged dieting of less than 1,200 calories per day is a chain reaction of physiologic responses to the stress associated with such a restricted diet. Your body initially adapts to the stress of low caloric intake by engaging the "fight or flight" stress response, which has several negative consequences, despite you seeing lower numbers on the scale. The "fight or flight" response stimulates the breakdown of muscle in order to supply the body with enough fuel (glucose) to maintain the blood sugar levels in the absence of sufficient dietary calories. This "fight or flight" stress response will eventually wear out, thus slowing the metabolic rate to compensate for what the body perceives as starvation."
From article
http://www.popsugar.com/fitness/Why-1200-Calories-Day-Important-When-Dieting-13080864
Really?! I can't lose weight at 1,800; wish I could. Sounds like an extremely generic answer.0 -
cthakkar1985 wrote: »cthakkar1985 wrote: »I've seen recommendations of 1 gram/pound of lean body mass. My LBM is 140lb so I have my macros at 150g protein, 50g carbs (mostlly from veggies/some fruit), 45g fat which would put me at ~1,200 calories/day. This is on days where I'm not lifting. Days that I'm lifting (3-4 days/week), I'm eating 1,800 calories with more carbs. Basically, I'm carb cycling. This seems to work for me, but I'm hesitant to continue given what the general consensus seems to be i.e. starvation mode, etc.
it's not just about macros, it's about energy, macros, micros.
And as a lifter you should know better.
You are eating about the same as me and I am a woman who is older...and I am a lifter..
I lose on a gross amount of 2k calories...net of 1800 easily, about 1/2lb a week.
Why would you eat so little? are you punishing yourself for gaining weight?
imagine how you would feel with the proper amount of calories in your body while lifting...
Sorry, I should clarify my question. My goal right now is to lose fat (2lbs/week) and preserve muscle. I'm not new to weightlifting, so it will be difficult for me to put on muscle and lose fat at the same time.
Over the course of a month, I typically average ~2,000 calories/day. I allow myself cheat days, I also will eat more on certain days where I'm feeling fatigued and don't have enough energy to lift properly, etc.
My question is more around if it is harmful to have a day or 2 per week where I'm eating pretty low (~1,200 cals). I would never go more than 2 days in a row with eating as little as 1,200. There are just certain days where I'm not lifting, just busy with other stuff, and feel fine eating only 1,200 calories. Is there anything wrong with this?
I am just gonna say one thing, if you want to preserve your muscles, rethink the calories and that 2 pounds loss per week idea.3 -
cthakkar1985 wrote: »cthakkar1985 wrote: »I've seen recommendations of 1 gram/pound of lean body mass. My LBM is 140lb so I have my macros at 150g protein, 50g carbs (mostlly from veggies/some fruit), 45g fat which would put me at ~1,200 calories/day. This is on days where I'm not lifting. Days that I'm lifting (3-4 days/week), I'm eating 1,800 calories with more carbs. Basically, I'm carb cycling. This seems to work for me, but I'm hesitant to continue given what the general consensus seems to be i.e. starvation mode, etc.
it's not just about macros, it's about energy, macros, micros.
And as a lifter you should know better.
You are eating about the same as me and I am a woman who is older...and I am a lifter..
I lose on a gross amount of 2k calories...net of 1800 easily, about 1/2lb a week.
Why would you eat so little? are you punishing yourself for gaining weight?
imagine how you would feel with the proper amount of calories in your body while lifting...
Sorry, I should clarify my question. My goal right now is to lose fat (2lbs/week) and preserve muscle. I'm not new to weightlifting, so it will be difficult for me to put on muscle and lose fat at the same time.
Over the course of a month, I typically average ~2,000 calories/day. I allow myself cheat days, I also will eat more on certain days where I'm feeling fatigued and don't have enough energy to lift properly, etc.
My question is more around if it is harmful to have a day or 2 per week where I'm eating pretty low (~1,200 cals). I would never go more than 2 days in a row with eating as little as 1,200. There are just certain days where I'm not lifting, just busy with other stuff, and feel fine eating only 1,200 calories. Is there anything wrong with this?
No, that is fine. You might want to look into Intermittent fasting.
http://www.leangains.com/ Is a good site with info. I think there is also a group here that do it.
I know there is a 5:2 intermittent fasting protocol where for 5 days of the week you would eat at maintenance and 2 days a week eat quite low calorie. 600kcal on fasting days for men I believe.
Others do a 16:8. No food for 16hours then you eat all your calories for the day in a 8 hr period. So say 8pm to noon, no food intake, then between noon and 8pm you eat your appropriate calories for the deficit you are trying to achieve.
Where you get into trouble with very low cal eating is if it is done constantly over an extended period.
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Preserving muscle mass with a 2 pound a week rate of loss is gonna be difficult. You are gonna loose both even with sufficient protein. When cutting fat like you are wanting to do and preserve muscle, the deficit should be much smaller.
Pick the right goal and stick to that. Lose fat/weight first with 2 pounds a week deficit or eat a smaller deficit to loose fat and preserve the muscles.1 -
cthakkar1985 wrote: »cthakkar1985 wrote: »I've seen recommendations of 1 gram/pound of lean body mass. My LBM is 140lb so I have my macros at 150g protein, 50g carbs (mostlly from veggies/some fruit), 45g fat which would put me at ~1,200 calories/day. This is on days where I'm not lifting. Days that I'm lifting (3-4 days/week), I'm eating 1,800 calories with more carbs. Basically, I'm carb cycling. This seems to work for me, but I'm hesitant to continue given what the general consensus seems to be i.e. starvation mode, etc.
it's not just about macros, it's about energy, macros, micros.
And as a lifter you should know better.
You are eating about the same as me and I am a woman who is older...and I am a lifter..
I lose on a gross amount of 2k calories...net of 1800 easily, about 1/2lb a week.
Why would you eat so little? are you punishing yourself for gaining weight?
imagine how you would feel with the proper amount of calories in your body while lifting...
Sorry, I should clarify my question. My goal right now is to lose fat (2lbs/week) and preserve muscle. I'm not new to weightlifting, so it will be difficult for me to put on muscle and lose fat at the same time.
Over the course of a month, I typically average ~2,000 calories/day. I allow myself cheat days, I also will eat more on certain days where I'm feeling fatigued and don't have enough energy to lift properly, etc.
My question is more around if it is harmful to have a day or 2 per week where I'm eating pretty low (~1,200 cals). I would never go more than 2 days in a row with eating as little as 1,200. There are just certain days where I'm not lifting, just busy with other stuff, and feel fine eating only 1,200 calories. Is there anything wrong with this?
People do that somewhat regularly it's called intermittent fasting.
I'm one of those types of people that doesn't get hungry all the time, and I force myself to eat to hit my macros.
Eating below X calories shouldn't be a huge deal if:
A. You're not hungry
B. You're getting enough protein (this is going to be one of the major factors is preserving lean mass while cutting)
So basically on days that you're not eating "that much" make sure you're at least trying to get enough protein in.
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cthakkar1985 wrote: »cthakkar1985 wrote: »I've seen recommendations of 1 gram/pound of lean body mass. My LBM is 140lb so I have my macros at 150g protein, 50g carbs (mostlly from veggies/some fruit), 45g fat which would put me at ~1,200 calories/day. This is on days where I'm not lifting. Days that I'm lifting (3-4 days/week), I'm eating 1,800 calories with more carbs. Basically, I'm carb cycling. This seems to work for me, but I'm hesitant to continue given what the general consensus seems to be i.e. starvation mode, etc.
it's not just about macros, it's about energy, macros, micros.
And as a lifter you should know better.
You are eating about the same as me and I am a woman who is older...and I am a lifter..
I lose on a gross amount of 2k calories...net of 1800 easily, about 1/2lb a week.
Why would you eat so little? are you punishing yourself for gaining weight?
imagine how you would feel with the proper amount of calories in your body while lifting...
Sorry, I should clarify my question. My goal right now is to lose fat (2lbs/week) and preserve muscle. I'm not new to weightlifting, so it will be difficult for me to put on muscle and lose fat at the same time.
Over the course of a month, I typically average ~2,000 calories/day. I allow myself cheat days, I also will eat more on certain days where I'm feeling fatigued and don't have enough energy to lift properly, etc.
My question is more around if it is harmful to have a day or 2 per week where I'm eating pretty low (~1,200 cals). I would never go more than 2 days in a row with eating as little as 1,200. There are just certain days where I'm not lifting, just busy with other stuff, and feel fine eating only 1,200 calories. Is there anything wrong with this?
I personally found it harmful...there would be days early in that I would eat 1k calories...
my workouts suffered, I was tired, dizzy and it took a good 3 days to get back to "normal"....
Now you may not but I did.
and as above it will be hard to maintain muscle with that steep of a deficit.
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First off, to preserve muscle you don't need a gram of protein per pound of body weight. I don't know why people have said that over the years. I'm very lean and have a good amount of muscle, take zero supplements of any kind, eat .5-.75 per pound and no problems.. Do what works for you and forget the rest. I also just multiply my weight by 10 and eat that much to really cut the fat. Just what I do, might not work for others..0
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sbubenchik wrote: »First off, to preserve muscle you don't need a gram of protein per pound of body weight. I don't know why people have said that over the years. I'm very lean and have a good amount of muscle, take zero supplements of any kind, eat .5-.75 per pound and no problems.. Do what works for you and forget the rest. I also just multiply my weight by 10 and eat that much to really cut the fat. Just what I do, might not work for others..
I read LBM...not weight....my suggestion is always 0.8 grams per lb...1 -
Oh my. My head is spinning from all the different answers0
This discussion has been closed.
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