Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Bariatric surger the only option
Okohme
Posts: 152 Member
in Debate Club
I made a lot of headway in dieting and exercising and almost stopped when I first read the 95% stat. You know what I mean.
So, not to beat a dead horse but here's this topic again, sort of.
I've done a lot of reading on the issue of metabolic damage and one of the things that really stood out to me was the whole "The NIH recognized bariatric (weight-loss) surgery as the only effective treatment to combat severe obesity and maintain weight loss in the long term."
I've seen that reiterated in a number of ways, sometimes omitting the portion about sever obesity. Is it just me, or does it seem somewhat suspect that the ONLY recognized method is a dangerous, invasive surgery? I'm not saying it doesn't work, I know people for whom it HAS worked. But the ONLY method......?
So, not to beat a dead horse but here's this topic again, sort of.
I've done a lot of reading on the issue of metabolic damage and one of the things that really stood out to me was the whole "The NIH recognized bariatric (weight-loss) surgery as the only effective treatment to combat severe obesity and maintain weight loss in the long term."
I've seen that reiterated in a number of ways, sometimes omitting the portion about sever obesity. Is it just me, or does it seem somewhat suspect that the ONLY recognized method is a dangerous, invasive surgery? I'm not saying it doesn't work, I know people for whom it HAS worked. But the ONLY method......?
2
Replies
-
Don't ask a hairdresser if you need a haircut?12
-
What is the first 95% stat?
So a girl was told when she was 12 that surgery was the only way for her. when she went in to get it as an adult the doctor totally supported her and let her know she could do it "naturally". Let me just see if I can find....
the body actually adapts really well. It's like a (flawed) computer. So yes that seems suspect. And I think a lot more people are keeping it off lately. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xoly324FG4
She is planning on getting loose skin surgery.9 -
You still have to diet after those surgeries, but I'm sure you knew that.11
-
I know several people who had bariatric surgery. They all gained the weight back. The surgery reduces the size of your stomach and limits the amount of food your stomach can hold at once, which naturally forces you to eat less. You still have to learn effective habits because you can stretch it back out, meaning you wasted all that money and time for nothing.
All weight loss, surgical or otherwise, relies on continuing positive habits after the extra weight is gone. You can take the time to learn them as you lose or you can be forced into a situation where you have to learn them immediately. The conversations I have had with those who gained it all back showed that they didn't take time to fix the mental part of it and that when they lost the weight the second time they made sure to fix how they saw things and approached food the second time around.14 -
DisruptedMatrix wrote: »What is the first 95% stat?
That 95% of people who lose weight gain it back, if not more.1 -
You can lose weight in a way to minimize metabolic damage and work to reverse any such damage afterwards. More significantly, there are lots of things you can do to increase TDEE even if you have some metabolic reduction, like just being more active. Concern about metabolic damage shouldn't keep someone who is overweight or obese from losing weight.7
-
I figure if one person has lost it and kept it off, it's possible.
This site is full of people who have done just that.
Read the Success Stories forum here, not fear-mongering media stories.
Who cares what the 95 do? I only care about what I do.
I went from morbid obesity to 22.5 BMI. I lost the weight in 2007. Yes, I've gained and lost that last ten to fifteen pounds during a few of the long NW winters since, but I've always lost it again before it got worse than that, and I've stayed within my healthy BMI.
Is it easy? Not really. It is possible.
14 -
DisruptedMatrix wrote: »What is the first 95% stat?
That 95% of people who lose weight gain it back, if not more.
That state came from a low protein diet study in 1959. The stat is still high at 80, and that's because people tend to give up on the eating habits that caused the weight loss in the first place.4 -
Maybe I am hopelessly optimistic but I believe NO ONE needs surgery to lose weight. Eat at a modest deficit and you WILL lose weight. Note I stated MODEST deficit. This will make weight loss a bit slower, but will avoid any ill effects such as metabolism issues.
The 95% stat you mention is true, and not true. It is true those who "diet" will gain the weight back. Those who modify their lifestyle WILL NOT. It is all about how and why you lose weight that determines the long term outcome. If you crash diet and focus on rapid weight loss you will likely put it right back on. If you focus on changing your lifestyle to include good eating habits, caloric monitoring, along with increased physical activity (exercise), you likely will not put the weight back on.13 -
MissusMoon wrote: »DisruptedMatrix wrote: »What is the first 95% stat?
That 95% of people who lose weight gain it back, if not more.
That state came from a low protein diet study in 1959. The stat is still high at 80, and that's because people tend to give up on the eating habits that caused the weight loss in the first place.
Not only that, did the participants in that 1959 study not also return to their prior eating habits? It's really not surprising that you'll regain the weight if you do that.
Here's the study to support the 80% finding.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/82/1/222S.short5 -
I know several people who had bariatric surgery. They all gained the weight back. The surgery reduces the size of your stomach and limits the amount of food your stomach can hold at once, which naturally forces you to eat less. You still have to learn effective habits because you can stretch it back out, meaning you wasted all that money and time for nothing.
All weight loss, surgical or otherwise, relies on continuing positive habits after the extra weight is gone. You can take the time to learn them as you lose or you can be forced into a situation where you have to learn them immediately. The conversations I have had with those who gained it all back showed that they didn't take time to fix the mental part of it and that when they lost the weight the second time they made sure to fix how they saw things and approached food the second time around.
I know three people who had the surgery. Only one has been successful at maintaining her loss.
She's the only one who from the start acknowledged that she had to make sweeping changing to her whole lifestyle and relationship with food and worked hard to do just that.
The other two started looking for ways to game the whole thing as soon as they could. They were just looking for a quick fix and never acknowledged the part they played in their problem.7 -
I am a bariatric surgery success story. I weighed the options and this was my best shot. There is more than stomach reduction going on. Ghrelin is reduced. Some T2 diabetics go in to remission immediately after surgery. I did.
Yes, I still must make wise choices. Since my portion sizes are limited, I choose protein first. And I work at staying hydrated throughout the day.17 -
To say its the only way is absolute rubbish.
I have been morbidly obese since childhood, have never seen myself at a healthy weight except for pictures from when I was 5 years old. (I'm 34 now)
Over the past 2.5 years I've lost 141 pounds by eating less and moving more, no surgery.
Have not gained one single pound of that back and am now maintaining my loss while eating 400 calories more per day than when I was losing.
It can absolutely be done without surgery.
There is no possible way I can regain the weight unless I eat too much food. I have complete control over my weight plain and simple. 990 days logged and will log for the rest of my life.
Most people hit their goal weight and then think they are done. Go back to their old eating habits and stop caring as much until the scale starts to creep back up. That is a sure fire way to become one of those statistics!24 -
I'm a 68 yo who was overweight from my late 20s. I lost and regained many times.
in 2012 When I got up to 376# I considered WLS but was afraid of it and the aftermath.
I joined WW Jan 2013 and have lost -145#. I have changed my lifestyle and know I can live this way the rest of my life. I'm still losing (slowly) and have not gained back any weight during the past four years.
IT CAN BE DONE but it's not easy. I agree with @JoeCWV and @ElvenToad and their POV.23 -
Jimb376mfp wrote: »I'm a 68 yo who was overweight from my late 20s. I lost and regained many times.
in 2012 When I got up to 376# I considered WLS but was afraid of it and the aftermath.
I joined WW Jan 2013 and have lost -145#. I have changed my lifestyle and know I can live this way the rest of my life. I'm still losing (slowly) and have not gained back any weight during the past four years.
IT CAN BE DONE but it's not easy. I agree with @JoeCWV and @ElvenToad and their POV.
Totally brilliant :flowerforyou:1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I know several people who had bariatric surgery. They all gained the weight back. The surgery reduces the size of your stomach and limits the amount of food your stomach can hold at once, which naturally forces you to eat less. You still have to learn effective habits because you can stretch it back out, meaning you wasted all that money and time for nothing.
All weight loss, surgical or otherwise, relies on continuing positive habits after the extra weight is gone. You can take the time to learn them as you lose or you can be forced into a situation where you have to learn them immediately. The conversations I have had with those who gained it all back showed that they didn't take time to fix the mental part of it and that when they lost the weight the second time they made sure to fix how they saw things and approached food the second time around.
I know three people who had the surgery. Only one has been successful at maintaining her loss.
She's the only one who from the start acknowledged that she had to make sweeping changing to her whole lifestyle and relationship with food and worked hard to do just that.
The other two started looking for ways to game the whole thing as soon as they could. They were just looking for a quick fix and never acknowledged the part they played in their problem.
Similar story here. I know four people who've had it done (various types of procedures). It's been about 3 yrs since the most recent one I know about and none have kept it off.
One ended up back in the hospital with systemic organ failure. He recovered and is mostly back to normal, health-wise. The best explanation the doctors were able to come up with was a combination of malnutrition and a low-grade infection from surgery that turned into much more as the months passed. This guy either did not get any advice on how to eat after surgery or he threw it all out the window from day one. Hard to tell.
Two went the more common route of losing about 60-70% of what they needed to get to a healthy weight and then started putting it back on when their stomach stretched back out and they weren't so careful about their diets anymore, although they will tell you they are still eating the way they were. It is obvious that both are now eating much more volume at a sitting than they were even remotely capable of months after surgery. We're talking at least 3x more - which is why the weight creeps back on. One of these two was just prescribed a doctor-recommended VLCD because his weight is starting to cause heart issues.
The fourth went the route of losing everything he wanted to lose, and gaining every bit of it back. This guy used to be an athlete. More than a hobbyist, but not a pro. A bicyclist and very lean and muscled - the last person you would have thought would have 1) gained enough to be morbidly obese, 2) had surgery to lose it given he knew how to lose that weight already, and 3) gain it all back again. Then, although we didn't know this at the time, he decided to do something about the fact he was unhappy with his marriage and ready for a change. Guess what - now that he had plenty of motivation, he dieted and exercised the way he already knew how to do and was down to healthy and well muscled again pretty quickly. Then he divorced his wife, who had stuck with him through the whole mess for a younger woman. :headdesk:2 -
You still need a calorie deficit after the surgery. Without a change in mentality and behaviour the surgery is pointless.8
-
You are correct it is not the only way to lose weight and keep it off. I think that it probably comes down to how often it occurs though. Please also keep in mind it is specifically saying severe obesity. I think everything should be looked at in context. Your statement "The NIH recognized bariatric (weight-loss) surgery as the only effective treatment to combat severe obesity and maintain weight loss in the long term." is stemming from some very specific studies, but of course most weight loss places and practitioners leave that part out. There is also a ton of anecdotal evidence that we all have, hence the I knew someone who....(insert did/did not) I would like to know more about what context that original statement is being made in and the details around the studies before forming my opinion about that statement. Its possible that traditional methods of WL for severely obese fail at such a high rate that it is deemed ineffective. Not because it doesn't actually work but because so few are successful with it. That of course comes down to personal accountability which is a whole other debate. You also mention the health risks of surgery which are very valid. However, its possible that in cases where surgery is truly warranted other health risks outweigh those. Surgery is definitely not for me. However, while at one point in my life i was in the obese category, I was never severely or morbidly obese. I did not worry about not waking up because the weight on my organs was too much. I do not feel it is my place to discount how surgery could help individuals in that case.2
-
My boss had this surgery back in February this year and immediately dropped 20 lbs. He never increased his motion and never changed his eating habits. He is now at the same weight he was before trending heavier.
At the same point - my team and I moved into a new building with a small gym. We stopped taking lunches and instead workout daily and then eating at our desks. We have all lost weight and establishing good habits which have a much higher chance of succeeding long term.2 -
That statistic is a scary one, and it was a factor in my decision to pursue the gastric sleeve. I'm 35, and have struggled with my weight since high school. Like most yo-yo dieters, I would lose a ton of weight (60 lbs) and then gain it all back because my diet wasn't sustainable. Especially to someone addicted to sugars and carbs. I'd gain 80 back and end up heavier than I was. After doing this several times in my life, my body had become resistant to any kind of calorie deficit. I struggled with many ways to 'shock' your body into losing weight through low carb and other means with no luck. The most I lost during this time period of a few years was 12 lbs over 6 months.
7 months post-op, I've lost 100 lbs and am still creeping down. I went from a BMI of 46 to now 31. I've learned a lot about myself, and as others have said on this thread, I am at risk of gaining weight back if I continue my habits. I've spent these last 8 months retraining my habits and dedicating myself to this new lifestyle.
I know there are a lot of anecdotes on this thread about 'everyone gains it back', but the real statistic is 20-30% fail long term with bariatric surgery because they don't change their habits. I'm confident I won't be one of them.
I would never go back. I'm thrilled with my success, my complete change in lifestyle and the freedom I feel every day. I'd do it 10x over.
If this is something you're considering for yourself, educate yourself. Talk to those who have failed and those who have succeeded. Don't let fear guide your decisions.10
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 392.9K Introduce Yourself
- 43.7K Getting Started
- 260.1K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.8K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 415 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.9K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.6K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.5K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions