So, I went to a dietician....

MarilynCurves · November 2016

Hi everyone,
I've been a member here for years, and have lurked on the boards, never posting, all this time. To start with, I want to thank so many of you for all I've learned! This might be kind of a long post, I'm sorry. I guess I just need to give a little background before I make my point.

I've been yo-yoing for many years now, losing up to 12kg (26lb), then gaining them back due to ZERO discipline. I'm so "all or nothing" and it's something I really need to work on. Currently I weigh 92.5kg (203lb), having gone up to 97.3kg (214.5lb), my all-time heaviest weight. Ideally, I'd like to be closer to 60kg (132lb), being around 172cm (5ft8/9). My doctor referred me to a dietician, where I can have 5 free sessions, so I thought "why not, this might be the thing that helps me reach my goal". I had reservations, however, because I'm kind of a veteran at this game, even if I have struggled with adherence, I feel I know enough to succeed.

I work full-time in a shop, so I'm on my feet all day. I also perform in a band some weekends, which is pretty active. I help to load in/out the equipment, and I move around onstage.

I joined a gym in July, and was eating 1740cal a day, while doing both cardio and weights (the pulley machine kind) 3 times a week. The scale wasn't moving (which frustrated me to no end, as I can lose 1.5kg (3.3lb) a week with NO exercise), but I was shrinking and looking much better. After a couple of months of no tangible loss, I decided to drop to 1550cal in an effort to get the scale moving again. I got sick though, a chest infection, and have fallen off the wagon completely. Eating like a pig and no gym at all. I feel terrible about myself and am still mentally very motivated, I just can't get my "a" into "g".

Anyhoo, I went to my first session yesterday, and came away so confused and frustrated. Basically this guy (whose tummy overflowed his jeans, btw) told me I should stop doing weights completely for a few months, eat no more than 1500cal a day, and stick with 45min- 1 hour of cardio, 4 times a week. He didn't listen at all when I told him I just feel hungry all day, and recommended I eat 3 small meals, and no snacks. He then started going on about how muscle weighs 4 times more than fat.

How much of this advice do you think I should take into account? The idea of not doing weights at all sounds wrong to me. Yes, I want to lose fat, I desperately do, but I want to maintain as much muscle mass as possible. Your thoughts or advice would be much appreciated. If you've made it this far, thank you!!!

VeganRaptor · November 2016

How strange, that doesn't seem like a great dietitian- I can't see what he's basing his advice on. Would you be able to ask to be transferred to a different dietitian? You could just blame a personality clash or something.

I personally go to a small team of two dietitians and they work from scientific evidence. If I asked them for their sources, I know they would have information to show me. You might like to ask your dietitian for their sources, if you can't be transferred? Although you need to have a degree to become a dietitian (unlike becoming a nutritionist), some people, even professionals, have strange ideas about diet or have weird agendas to push.

crzycatlady1 · November 2016

I'd just enter your current stats here into MFP and then follow the calorie deficit that it gives you (I'd chose the 1lb a week option). Make sure you're using a food scale, set to grams, and then track all your food in the tracker.

As for exercise, it's nice, but it's not what matters for weight loss-eating at the correct calorie deficit is. If you haven't been losing weight then you've been eating too many calories.

As for meal frequency/timing-that's a preference thing and again, is not important for weight loss. If you do better with more frequent, smaller meals/snacks then do that. If you do better with a couple bigger meals, then do that. All that matters is that at the end of the day/week you've hit your calorie deficit target.

Gallowmere1984 · November 2016

I am reading this, but just...wat? I think I'd have started to pop a vein after five minutes.

MarilynCurves · November 2016

Gallowmere1984 wrote: »

I am reading this, but just...wat? I think I'd have started to pop a vein after five minutes.

Honestly, I was nearly in tears. I was hoping for genuine help :-( it shouldn't feel like I know more than him!

MarilynCurves · November 2016

crzycatlady1 wrote: »

I'd just enter your current stats here into MFP and then follow the calorie deficit that it gives you (I'd chose the 1lb a week option). Make sure you're using a food scale, set to grams, and then track all your food in the tracker.

As for exercise, it's nice, but it's not what matters for weight loss-eating at the correct calorie deficit is. If you haven't been losing weight then you've been eating too many calories.

As for meal frequency/timing-that's a preference thing and again, is not important for weight loss. If you do better with more frequent, smaller meals/snacks then do that. If you do better with a couple bigger meals, then do that. All that matters is that at the end of the day/week you've hit your calorie deficit target.

Many thanks for your advice. You're right. MFP has worked for me just fine in the past. I need to get back to basics. It just feels like everything got LESS effective when I joined the gym. I'll have to pick it all back up and stick with it!

Gallowmere1984 · November 2016

MarilynCurves wrote: »

Gallowmere1984 wrote: »

I am reading this, but just...wat? I think I'd have started to pop a vein after five minutes.

Honestly, I was nearly in tears. I was hoping for genuine help :-( it shouldn't feel like I know more than him!

That's been the overwhelming sentiment that I've gotten from most longtime MFP users who have gone to dieticians and/or nutritionists. Honestly, I'm starting to believe you'd actually get better advice juat picking the brain of the strongest and leanest gymbro you can find. At least those guys have some kind of idea of what they're doing.

GottaBurnEmAll · November 2016

Don't go back to that dude.

Strength training is awesome. Most people will lose muscle mass while dieting. You are correct. Strength training (and attention to protein intake) will preserve it.

Amount of meals and meal timing are irrelevant.

I plugged your stats into a TDEE calculator allowing for your 3 gym session a week and got a TDEE of around 2300 calories for you. The question is how steep a deficit do you want to create? You were saying you were always hungry. It's normal to experience some hunger when you first start dieting, but some dieters are too aggressive with their deficits and cutting too many calories just won't work for them. It's okay to lose weight slowly.

1,800 calories might be more manageable for you and would give you a pound loss per week.

zyxst · November 2016

Me, I wouldn't take exercise advice from a dietitian just like I wouldn't nutrition advice from a personal trainer.

I'd look closer at your logging (not saying you're not logging correctly) as little things can slip up like not weighing slices of cheese and those individual yogurt cups. How's your sodium? Are you hydrated enough? Are you eating foods that satisfy you/have a macro split that satisfies you?

I found, for myself, it was going back to the basics of logging everything properly and even making my deficit smaller (went from 1# to half a pound loss per week which got me away from sneaking food) helped get my weight loss back on track.

staticsplit · November 2016

That dietician sounds mneh. I had one when I was recovering from an eating disorder and she was great--made me a meal plan, said I was fine to exercise as long as I wasn't going into a calorie deficit.

MFP always works for me, but then like you I give up and gain it back. This time I'm trying to consistently log even when I'm over, and try to have more moderation and balance.

PixelPuff · November 2016

The fact he said "Muscle weighs more than fat" alone is enough to make me say never go back to him. 1lb is 1lb, though the SIZES may be different [muscle is more dense, so it would be smaller]. He shouldn't be spewin' that crap in the way he is.. You also wouldn't be putting on so much muscle SO QUICKLY as to counteract any of your weight loss. Muscle takes a good amount of time to build.

amusedmonkey · November 2016

I can see why he recommended that. He probably has a formula that works for most of his clients who may not be as seasoned in the arts of weight loss as you are. Not doing weight training = no initial water retention from damage repair, 1500 calories + cardio = fast glycogen depletion and scale numbers going down. This formula works. When people see the numbers moving they get motivated and are more likely to stick with it. Any loss is better than rage quitting too early, he probably thinks. Any loss is good loss, even if it comes from muscle, and this is especially true for obese clients, they're taught, since they have "extra" muscle. His issue is that, yes, this formula works for many but it doesn't work for all, and he needs to customize his advice to his client. He either hasn't been at it long enough, or has been at it too long and lost passion for his job. My advice: take what you feel makes sense and don't take anything you feel does not fit your style of weight loss. Your next sessions may be better, but if they aren't, don't feel obligated to see this through.

annaskiski · November 2016

who cares that muscle weighs more than fat?
You want to lose fat, not weight... Why would you stop lifting?!?!?

red99ryder · November 2016

Sounds like he wanted to make sure you were eating less than you burned . I am surprised he didn't talk about macros. I went to a therapist once for marriage counseling, found out they were divorced ... And it didn't help lol

Good luck

kshama2001 · November 2016

MarilynCurves wrote: »

...

Anyhoo, I went to my first session yesterday, and came away so confused and frustrated. Basically this guy (whose tummy overflowed his jeans, btw) told me I should stop doing weights completely for a few months, eat no more than 1500 cal a day, and stick with 45 min - 1 hour of cardio, 4 times a week. He didn't listen at all when I told him I just feel hungry all day, and recommended I eat 3 small meals, and no snacks. He then started going on about how muscle weighs 4 times more than fat.

How much of this advice do you think I should take into account? The idea of not doing weights at all sounds wrong to me. Yes, I want to lose fat, I desperately do, but I want to maintain as much muscle mass as possible. Your thoughts or advice would be much appreciated. If you've made it this far, thank you!!!

I'm sorry this guy was a waste of your time. You could ask to see someone else. When I wanted talk therapy, it took a while to find someone who was a good fit.

I was with the VA's TeleMOVE program and could have seen a nutritionist for free but didn't bother. I had already learned what foods satiate me the most for the least calories and that when I focus on them, and exercise, I can stay within my calorie budget and lose weight at a reasonable rate.

Sounds like a big part of your problem is the "all or nothing" mindset you mentioned - inability to moderate. You don't weigh enough that losing 3.3 pounds per week is sustainable. Try setting a calorie goal that will give you a 1.5 pound per week loss and drop it to a pound a week when you're down to wanting to lose 50 pounds.

I'm sure you're aware that we can retain water when we start a new exercise program? I "gained" 7 pounds when I started lifting weights again last fall. You just have to work through that psychological block and focus on feeling stronger and clothes fitting better.

yirara · November 2016

Just a thought. Looking through my diary I'm usually heaviest at the end of the week and lightest on Monday morning. Why? I exercise during the week. Exercising makes me hold more onto water (muscles repair). I get rid of this water over the weekend. Plus, sitting in an office all week probably plays a role there as well. Water weight can mask weight loss. But indeed the most important thing is eating at a calorie deficit. And you can only be sure if you're in one if you weigh all your food on a scale in grams and chose the right entries.

annaskiski · November 2016

I agree with the poster above that you need to address your 'all or nothing' approach.

Try for a modest calorie deficit, and make sure you include all the foods you love.

Please....don't cut out food groups that you have been told are 'bad'.

bfanny · November 2016

My experience is that I need Cardio to lose more weight, yes 2-3 days lifting helps with my shape, afterburn and all that, but to have a decent amount of cals available each day and drop pounds more cardio for me, I have to keep a deficit for it to "work"

Good Luck!

LiminalAscendance · November 2016

According to you, you already know what to do; your issue is adherence. Therefore, it doesn't matter what the dietician recommends, since you're not going to follow his advice anyway (I love these "bash the so-called-professionals" posts).

And I wouldn't worry about losing muscle mass, if you're not losing any weight.

DaniCanadian · November 2016

If you aren't, you need to use a food scale and weigh everything you eat. I was stuck in what I thought was a plateau, then I took the advice from here to use a digital food scale. That made me realize I wasn't at a plateau, I was eating a butt load more than I thought.

zyxst · November 2016

LiminalAscendance wrote: »

According to you, you already know what to do; your issue is adherence. Therefore, it doesn't matter what the dietician recommends, since you're not going to follow his advice anyway (I love these "bash the so-called-professionals" posts).

And I wouldn't worry about losing muscle mass, if you're not losing any weight.

Considering a dietitian has no professional training/schooling in weight lifting, I wouldn't take his advice on it. I'm a professional, would you take my advice on something I have little to no knowledge about?

lkpducky · November 2016

zyxst wrote: »

LiminalAscendance wrote: »

According to you, you already know what to do; your issue is adherence. Therefore, it doesn't matter what the dietician recommends, since you're not going to follow his advice anyway (I love these "bash the so-called-professionals" posts).

And I wouldn't worry about losing muscle mass, if you're not losing any weight.

Considering a dietitian has no professional training/schooling in weight lifting, I wouldn't take his advice on it. I'm a professional, would you take my advice on something I have little to no knowledge about?

Also, why is losing muscle mass ok? The object is to lose fat tissue. Not just anything to make the scale go down.
OP mentioned shrinking when doing weights - that sounds like some progress was being made.

siraphine · November 2016

I have a rule with getting haircuts that I won't let someone with a bad haircut touch my hair. I would feel the same way about an overweight dietician.

Tacklewasher · November 2016

siraphine wrote: »

I have a rule with getting haircuts that I won't let someone with a bad haircut touch my hair. I would feel the same way about an overweight dietician.

Remember, the person with the bad haircut is not the person who did the cutting. It's their co-workers you need to avoid.

charlenekapf · November 2016

There are so many better dietitians. Can you see another one with those free consults? Of course I'm not saying that you need to always seek someone who agrees with your own beliefs as sometimes they will have different opinions. However, It is important that you feel they are giving you sound advice. Advising you not to lift weights may help the scale read less sure, but you will also lose muscle and possibly bone mass over time. Maybe see if you can find a trainer or a dietician with a fitness background? Having good role models has been motivating for me. I have also had doctors telling me to do an hour of cardio, eat 1400-1600 calories a day and no lifting, low fat vegetarian etc and it contradicted a lot of things i know my body does not respond well to. Seek 2nd opinions, and 3rd, etc.

Pocket__Cthulhu · November 2016

MarilynCurves wrote: »

crzycatlady1 wrote: »

I'd just enter your current stats here into MFP and then follow the calorie deficit that it gives you (I'd chose the 1lb a week option). Make sure you're using a food scale, set to grams, and then track all your food in the tracker.

As for exercise, it's nice, but it's not what matters for weight loss-eating at the correct calorie deficit is. If you haven't been losing weight then you've been eating too many calories.

As for meal frequency/timing-that's a preference thing and again, is not important for weight loss. If you do better with more frequent, smaller meals/snacks then do that. If you do better with a couple bigger meals, then do that. All that matters is that at the end of the day/week you've hit your calorie deficit target.

Many thanks for your advice. You're right. MFP has worked for me just fine in the past. I need to get back to basics. It just feels like everything got LESS effective when I joined the gym. I'll have to pick it all back up and stick with it!

I went to a dietician once. I bought months worth of my food log to see if she could help me by making recommendations on eating more of this or that, eating a little less of this or that... and all she did was pull out the toy foods and ask if that was the portion size I was eating. She didn't even glance at my food diary. When I said that I have a food scale in response to the toy haunch of steak, she just said "Oh, well, you're doing everything right. Why don't you go see an endocrinologist and he'll probably put you on metformin?"

Well, I refused, because I wanted to make sure that I was doing everything I could before turning to a medication. Although my weight loss is stalling to a painfully slow rate (which is my fault) my pant size keeps dropping. They're dropping because I've been doing Strong-lifts 5x5. YAY SQUATS!

everher · November 2016

I'd bet the reason the scale wasn't moving when you were going to the gym was because you were eating more than you thought. Exercise tends to make most people hungrier.

I'm a (hopefully) former yo-yo dieter myself and one of my problems in the past with logging was I always log after I eat, but sometimes I would mean to do it after a snack and forget and forget I ate said item. I would make sure you are logging every piece of food and liquid that goes in your mouth and weighing everything accurately.

I've always felt personally that dieticians were a waste of time unless you had a special circumstance were you couldn't eat a lot of fat or gluten or had to be low carb. Otherwise, what exactly are they suppose to tell you ? My best friend who is heavily obese went and saw one and the advice was basically, "eat less move more."

dawnemjh · November 2016

it can be frustrating when you are working out and trying hard and then don't lose! I can relate. I agree with getting a food scale. Also for your height 132 is pretty aggressive. Maybe shoot for 150 or make mini goals...

SideSteel · November 2016

Did you ask why he suggested to stop lifting?

xmichaelyx · November 2016

You already know exactly what you need to do, which is why you're questioning what the dietitian told you. Limit your calories, workout, and you'll lose.

You have a problem with hunger because it takes a few days of restricting your calories before the cravings will go away. Some also have success in limiting cravings by eating fewer cards and more fat/protein, or by chewing gum, or by drinking zero-cal beverages.

It sucks for a short period, and then it becomes the new normal.

Really, the way to do it isn't to study it, or by talking to a doctor, or by looking for shortcuts. You do it just by doing it. It sucks, and then it's easy.

vingogly · November 2016

You sure this isn't a personal trainer being marketed by the gym as a dietician? What are his credentials as a dietician? Almost all the advice he gave you was exercise related -- what does advice on weight training have to do with nutrition?

You're paying him, you're his employer -- the relationship isn't working so it's time to fire him. Just as you would get rid of a mental health professional who wasn't helping you, or a financial advisor who was giving you bad advice.

So, I went to a dietician....

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