fat loss help
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myurav
Posts: 165 Member
hi everyone,
i've been on this site for a while, and i'm really enjoying it. i've started getting more involved in the community and you're all awesome!
so here are some stats: a few years ago, i lost 20 lbs (got down to 150) by monitoring cals (at 1400/day) and going to the gym. i then gained it back when i moved and started a stressful job. i moved again last year, and it's been much less stressful, and i've finally decided to focus.
here's my question: i recently found out that my body fat percentage is around 27% (pleasantly surprised). now, i've been listening to a lot of fat 2 fit radio (amazing guys) and they consistently recommend eating more calories to keep the metabolism going, and to lose fat instead of muscle. the more muscle you lose, the less calories you can eat because 1 lb of muscle burns around 30-50 cal per day, whereas one lb of fat only burns 5 cals per day.
i have reset my goal calories to 1600 net (a weight loss of about 1 lb), but when i put in all my stats into a calculator at cordianet.com, it suggests around 1900 cals per day for optimum weight loss. i did put in that i exercise regularly, so maybe those extra 300 cal come on my exercise days. i'm also finding it a bit difficult to eat enough calories (my bmr is almost 1600) in a healthy way (not just potato chips!).
the other big surprise is that at a weight of 150 (assuming only fat loss), i'd be at 20%, which is a great percentage for a female. i wouldn't want to go below 18% (can't imagine myself there either!). but my goal weight was 140...so here are my questions.
1. should i revise my goal weight to be at 150 and then go from there? that would put me at a bmi of about 23.5 (higher end of normal), although to be honest, i don't take the bmi too seriously because it really doesn't account for muscle. when i was at 150 before though, i still felt as though i could have lost a little bit more weight.
2. i'm worried that my metabolism may have slowed down from eating under my bmr and that i will actually gain weight. any suggestions or thoughts?
i want to do this the healthy way and i'd rather go slow than not. intellectually, i know i should eat more calories in order to keep my body running at its optimal performance, but it's hard to reconcile this idea...
anyways, ideas, thoughts and support would be much appreciated!
thanks.
i've been on this site for a while, and i'm really enjoying it. i've started getting more involved in the community and you're all awesome!
so here are some stats: a few years ago, i lost 20 lbs (got down to 150) by monitoring cals (at 1400/day) and going to the gym. i then gained it back when i moved and started a stressful job. i moved again last year, and it's been much less stressful, and i've finally decided to focus.
here's my question: i recently found out that my body fat percentage is around 27% (pleasantly surprised). now, i've been listening to a lot of fat 2 fit radio (amazing guys) and they consistently recommend eating more calories to keep the metabolism going, and to lose fat instead of muscle. the more muscle you lose, the less calories you can eat because 1 lb of muscle burns around 30-50 cal per day, whereas one lb of fat only burns 5 cals per day.
i have reset my goal calories to 1600 net (a weight loss of about 1 lb), but when i put in all my stats into a calculator at cordianet.com, it suggests around 1900 cals per day for optimum weight loss. i did put in that i exercise regularly, so maybe those extra 300 cal come on my exercise days. i'm also finding it a bit difficult to eat enough calories (my bmr is almost 1600) in a healthy way (not just potato chips!).
the other big surprise is that at a weight of 150 (assuming only fat loss), i'd be at 20%, which is a great percentage for a female. i wouldn't want to go below 18% (can't imagine myself there either!). but my goal weight was 140...so here are my questions.
1. should i revise my goal weight to be at 150 and then go from there? that would put me at a bmi of about 23.5 (higher end of normal), although to be honest, i don't take the bmi too seriously because it really doesn't account for muscle. when i was at 150 before though, i still felt as though i could have lost a little bit more weight.
2. i'm worried that my metabolism may have slowed down from eating under my bmr and that i will actually gain weight. any suggestions or thoughts?
i want to do this the healthy way and i'd rather go slow than not. intellectually, i know i should eat more calories in order to keep my body running at its optimal performance, but it's hard to reconcile this idea...
anyways, ideas, thoughts and support would be much appreciated!
thanks.
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Replies
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well, those muscle burn vs fat burn numbers are way off just so you know. 1 lb of muscle burns about 6 to 8 calories a day (not including when being used for exercise) and 1 lb of fat burns about 1 calorie per day.
think about it, if you have 100 lbs of lean tissue, and you burned 60 calories a day, you'd be burning 6000 calories a day just from muscle mass (not including other things such as nervous system, respiration, thermogenesis...etc.) And I don't know many people that burn 6000 calories a day INCLUDING exercise, never mind just from muscle mass.
as to question 1, I'd say yes, that's a good goal (20% or about 150 assuming you keep existing muscle mass)
and question 2, if it worries you, do 1 month at maintenance first, to reset your metabolism, then drop down by about 300 to 400 calories and you should lose at about 2/3 of a lb per week, I wouldn't drop right to 500 off the bat, I'd try 300 first for 2 to 3 weeks, see how that goes, then move to 400 and see if you're still losing at the same clip or better, if you are, then you can try for 500 and see how that works.
And remember, you need to continually evaluate. After losing some weight you'll need to reduce your deficit (raise your calories eaten) by a bit to continue to lose fat but retain muscle. And of course make sure you're doing weight training at a minimum of once a week, but preferably twice, and if you can help it, not on the same day as cardio, or if you must, space your cardio out so that it's at least 4 hours after the weight training (never do cardio right before weight training).0 -
Great questions! I'll be interested to see what responses you get. Sorry I can't help you, but did want to thank you for the suggestion of fat2fit radio. Just subscribed and am listening right now. Thanks again!0
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This a great reply and I'm agreeing! It's great to see others who actually know the numbers (especially on the actually calories burned by a pound of muscle).well, those muscle burn vs fat burn numbers are way off just so you know. 1 lb of muscle burns about 6 to 8 calories a day (not including when being used for exercise) and 1 lb of fat burns about 1 calorie per day.
think about it, if you have 100 lbs of lean tissue, and you burned 60 calories a day, you'd be burning 6000 calories a day just from muscle mass (not including other things such as nervous system, respiration, thermogenesis...etc.) And I don't know many people that burn 6000 calories a day INCLUDING exercise, never mind just from muscle mass.
as to question 1, I'd say yes, that's a good goal (20% or about 150 assuming you keep existing muscle mass)
and question 2, if it worries you, do 1 month at maintenance first, to reset your metabolism, then drop down by about 300 to 400 calories and you should lose at about 2/3 of a lb per week, I wouldn't drop right to 500 off the bat, I'd try 300 first for 2 to 3 weeks, see how that goes, then move to 400 and see if you're still losing at the same clip or better, if you are, then you can try for 500 and see how that works.
And remember, you need to continually evaluate. After losing some weight you'll need to reduce your deficit (raise your calories eaten) by a bit to continue to lose fat but retain muscle. And of course make sure you're doing weight training at a minimum of once a week, but preferably twice, and if you can help it, not on the same day as cardio, or if you must, space your cardio out so that it's at least 4 hours after the weight training (never do cardio right before weight training).0 -
I noticed you said "never do weight training after cardio". Interesting. There are "trainers" at the gym I go to and they always suggest that I do my cardio first - every time I come in - and then do my weights. They do suggest I alternate upper body one day, lower the next, but they always have me do cardio first. Help me understand this?well, those muscle burn vs fat burn numbers are way off just so you know. 1 lb of muscle burns about 6 to 8 calories a day (not including when being used for exercise) and 1 lb of fat burns about 1 calorie per day.
think about it, if you have 100 lbs of lean tissue, and you burned 60 calories a day, you'd be burning 6000 calories a day just from muscle mass (not including other things such as nervous system, respiration, thermogenesis...etc.) And I don't know many people that burn 6000 calories a day INCLUDING exercise, never mind just from muscle mass.
as to question 1, I'd say yes, that's a good goal (20% or about 150 assuming you keep existing muscle mass)
and question 2, if it worries you, do 1 month at maintenance first, to reset your metabolism, then drop down by about 300 to 400 calories and you should lose at about 2/3 of a lb per week, I wouldn't drop right to 500 off the bat, I'd try 300 first for 2 to 3 weeks, see how that goes, then move to 400 and see if you're still losing at the same clip or better, if you are, then you can try for 500 and see how that works.
And remember, you need to continually evaluate. After losing some weight you'll need to reduce your deficit (raise your calories eaten) by a bit to continue to lose fat but retain muscle. And of course make sure you're doing weight training at a minimum of once a week, but preferably twice, and if you can help it, not on the same day as cardio, or if you must, space your cardio out so that it's at least 4 hours after the weight training (never do cardio right before weight training).0 -
I noticed you said "never do weight training after cardio". Interesting. There are "trainers" at the gym I go to and they always suggest that I do my cardio first - every time I come in - and then do my weights. They do suggest I alternate upper body one day, lower the next, but they always have me do cardio first. Help me understand this?0
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thanks guys!
that is a good point about the lean muscle tissue - never thought of it that way!
i appreciate the support and the advice
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i've heard that you shouldn't do cardio before weights actually, although i don't know the reason why.
i'm doing the 30DS right now (day 4) as my main weights, and then i do about 20-30 min of cardio afterwards.0 -
You have glycogen stores in your body. Exercise uses these stores first. If you deplete your glycogen stores doing cardio first, then when you go to lift weights the energy to do it HAS to come from somewhere. And it ain't going to be from fat stores......it will come in the form of the breaking down of muscle tissue. Broken down muscle tissue is amino acids in simple form and is the energy use to create the ATP/ADP conversion needed to contracted muscles under load (which is not the same in cardio workouts). So essentially you're accelerating muscle loss or catabolism. Less muscle means lower metabolic rate.[
I noticed you said "never do weight training after cardio". Interesting. There are "trainers" at the gym I go to and they always suggest that I do my cardio first - every time I come in - and then do my weights. They do suggest I alternate upper body one day, lower the next, but they always have me do cardio first. Help me understand this?
If these "trainers" are telling you this........then science shows they are wrong................and I'm a Certified PT too.0 -
I noticed you said "never do weight training after cardio". Interesting. There are "trainers" at the gym I go to and they always suggest that I do my cardio first - every time I come in - and then do my weights. They do suggest I alternate upper body one day, lower the next, but they always have me do cardio first. Help me understand this?
what niner said. I'ma also a Certified PT, also certified in AQR and in Olympic weightlifting coaching, cardio before weight training (or any failure training) is a no-no.
UNLESS, you're talking about something around 10 to 20 minutes as a warm up, that's fine, it takes about anywhere from 40 to 75minutes for most people to deplete glycogen stores enough to interrupt weight training (depending on the intensity of the cardio, and type).0 -
think about it, if you have 100 lbs of lean tissue, and you burned 60 calories a day, you'd be burning 6000 calories a day just from muscle mass (not including other things such as nervous system, respiration, thermogenesis...etc.) And I don't know many people that burn 6000 calories a day INCLUDING exercise, never mind just from muscle mass.
I just want to do some number crunching on this since it really is somewhat misleading (if I misunderstood what you were saying, I apologize in advance).
Though I think having muscle is much better than having fat (don't think anyone will disagree here), there really isn't that big of a difference in the total numbers per day burned when you look at it as a whole.
So according to what you said, 100 lbs of muscle will burn 600 calories per day (6 calories x 100 lbs of muscle, which is more than a pound per week.
If someone were to maintain their weight, and lose 10lbs of fat, and gained 10 lbs of pure muscle (which is a fairly big feat - equivalent to 140lb woman going from 30% body fat to 23%); using your numbers, they'd be burning 10 calories less per day because of the fat loss, and burning 60 more calories because of the muscle.
So that equates to another 50 calories per day burned (which is equivalent to about 1 lb every 70 days or so). IMO, that's hardly a reason to gain muscle.
With that said, there are a number of benefits of replacing fat with muscle, including being healthier, having your hormones properly functioning, looking a lot better, and just being more functional as a human being.0 -
somebody correct me if I'm wrong but you can't jsut do a straight up calculation of fat loss and recalculate your percentages like that, because your body isnt' just made up of muscle and fat.
When somebody lose 30lbs, a large proportion of that is water weight so that needs to be taken into account.
If you really need to set yourself a goal weight, look online for someone your height who has the body you'd like and use that as a goal weight. 140lbs sounds very reasonable for a goal weight. If you get to 150 and you're like whoa, I'm too skinny then just stop losing weight.
Also regarding food intake; if you're eating helthy foods and your satiated, I wouldn't force more down just for the sake of eating it. Just make sure you're getting enough protein (they say at least one gram to a lb of lean body weight; some say a gram of total body weight).0 -
somebody correct me if I'm wrong but you can't jsut do a straight up calculation of fat loss and recalculate your percentages like that, because your body isnt' just made up of muscle and fat.
When somebody lose 30lbs, a large proportion of that is water weight so that needs to be taken into account.
If you really need to set yourself a goal weight, look online for someone your height who has the body you'd like and use that as a goal weight. 140lbs sounds very reasonable for a goal weight. If you get to 150 and you're like whoa, I'm too skinny then just stop losing weight.
Also regarding food intake; if you're eating helthy foods and your satiated, I wouldn't force more down just for the sake of eating it. Just make sure you're getting enough protein (they say at least one gram to a lb of lean body weight; some say a gram of total body weight).
Why do you say a large portion of 30 lbs weight loss would be water weight? That's generally not the case unless you move from a glucose metabolism to a ketogenic metabolism. And that comes with it's own set of rules and requirements. A statement like that assumes you know how the weight has been lost, and as a generic statement is meaningless without context.0 -
While water weight is usually initial in the starting stage, genetics will play a role in just about anyone's weight loss along with nutrition and actual type of exercise. Someone losing weight from long endurance cardio ( more than 1.5 hours) is more than likely losing that weight from muscle tissue compared to someone who does sprints for cardio and retains more lean muscle and loses fat. Compare a long distance runner to a sprinter physique wise. There is a physical difference.somebody correct me if I'm wrong but you can't jsut do a straight up calculation of fat loss and recalculate your percentages like that, because your body isnt' just made up of muscle and fat.
When somebody lose 30lbs, a large proportion of that is water weight so that needs to be taken into account.
If you really need to set yourself a goal weight, look online for someone your height who has the body you'd like and use that as a goal weight. 140lbs sounds very reasonable for a goal weight. If you get to 150 and you're like whoa, I'm too skinny then just stop losing weight.
Also regarding food intake; if you're eating helthy foods and your satiated, I wouldn't force more down just for the sake of eating it. Just make sure you're getting enough protein (they say at least one gram to a lb of lean body weight; some say a gram of total body weight).
Why do you say a large portion of 30 lbs weight loss would be water weight? That's generally not the case unless you move from a glucose metabolism to a ketogenic metabolism. And that comes with it's own set of rules and requirements. A statement like that assumes you know how the weight has been lost, and as a generic statement is meaningless without context.
So I am agreeing with you again!0 -
Why do you say a large portion of 30 lbs weight loss would be water weight? That's generally not the case unless you move from a glucose metabolism to a ketogenic metabolism. And that comes with it's own set of rules and requirements. A statement like that assumes you know how the weight has been lost, and as a generic statement is meaningless without context.
I'm no specialist on this, so I could very well be wrong, but I've read that our bodies are about 75% water and I thought I remembered reading that the amount of water in your body goes up with your body size (maybe not proportionately, but they go up together). Though I know that obese people, for example, would proportionately have less water in their system than someone of average size, I'm pretty certain that in absolute values, someone who weighs 300lbs has quite a bit more water in their body than someone who weighs 200lbs.
So if someone were to lose 100lbs for example and maintain muscle, it doesn't necessarily mean that they lost 100lbs of pure fat (a significant portion of that would come from water).
Again, I could be wrong on this and if there's something I can read that would educate me, I'd love to read it (I love to learn new things).
My final point though remains the same for the OP. It's good to have goals but don't be afraid to re-evaluate them along the way. Whether your goal weight is 140 or 150 shouldn't make too much of a difference. If you get to 150 and you think that's enough, then stop there. I fyou think you still have another 10 to lose, then change your goal and do it.0 -
well, those muscle burn vs fat burn numbers are way off just so you know. 1 lb of muscle burns about 6 to 8 calories a day (not including when being used for exercise) and 1 lb of fat burns about 1 calorie per day.
think about it, if you have 100 lbs of lean tissue, and you burned 60 calories a day, you'd be burning 6000 calories a day just from muscle mass (not including other things such as nervous system, respiration, thermogenesis...etc.) And I don't know many people that burn 6000 calories a day INCLUDING exercise, never mind just from muscle mass.
as to question 1, I'd say yes, that's a good goal (20% or about 150 assuming you keep existing muscle mass)
and question 2, if it worries you, do 1 month at maintenance first, to reset your metabolism, then drop down by about 300 to 400 calories and you should lose at about 2/3 of a lb per week, I wouldn't drop right to 500 off the bat, I'd try 300 first for 2 to 3 weeks, see how that goes, then move to 400 and see if you're still losing at the same clip or better, if you are, then you can try for 500 and see how that works.
And remember, you need to continually evaluate. After losing some weight you'll need to reduce your deficit (raise your calories eaten) by a bit to continue to lose fat but retain muscle. And of course make sure you're doing weight training at a minimum of once a week, but preferably twice, and if you can help it, not on the same day as cardio, or if you must, space your cardio out so that it's at least 4 hours after the weight training (never do cardio right before weight training).
That's the number I keep seeing in my research. lb of muscle = about ~ extra 6 kcals extra per day.
Also, as you lose body fat, you will lose lean body mass. Regardless of your nutrition and workout levels. Some lean body mass is there just to support the added fat mass (extra water, blood, connective tissue). So assume about a 30% drop in lean body mass and 70% drop in fat mass with weight loss (assuming you are doing things the right way.
Don't worry so much about scale weight. Eat high amounts of protein, do a full body resistance training 3 times per week, and reduce calories to lose 1-2 lbs per week. Keep going until you are happy with what you see in the mirror.
99% of the people have to get way thinner than they ever expected. It's completely normal, so don't sweat it.0 -
Why do you say a large portion of 30 lbs weight loss would be water weight? That's generally not the case unless you move from a glucose metabolism to a ketogenic metabolism. And that comes with it's own set of rules and requirements. A statement like that assumes you know how the weight has been lost, and as a generic statement is meaningless without context.
I'm no specialist on this, so I could very well be wrong, but I've read that our bodies are about 75% water and I thought I remembered reading that the amount of water in your body goes up with your body size (maybe not proportionately, but they go up together). Though I know that obese people, for example, would proportionately have less water in their system than someone of average size, I'm pretty certain that in absolute values, someone who weighs 300lbs has quite a bit more water in their body than someone who weighs 200lbs.
So if someone were to lose 100lbs for example and maintain muscle, it doesn't necessarily mean that they lost 100lbs of pure fat (a significant portion of that would come from water).
Again, I could be wrong on this and if there's something I can read that would educate me, I'd love to read it (I love to learn new things).
My final point though remains the same for the OP. It's good to have goals but don't be afraid to re-evaluate them along the way. Whether your goal weight is 140 or 150 shouldn't make too much of a difference. If you get to 150 and you think that's enough, then stop there. I fyou think you still have another 10 to lose, then change your goal and do it.
you're correct and incorrect at the same time. While it's true that the body is a large proportion of water, it's water only in that it takes water to make up a lot of the other organs and cells in the body, I.E. a fat cell contains so much water in it, so when you lose fat, yes, some water goes away as well, but not in the sense of extra cellular water in the body, it's different.0 -
wow, very informative post! Thank you for sharing your extensive knowledge with us :flowerforyou:0
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thanks for the information everyone. i definitely learned some new information from this post 0
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