To cardio first or not to cardio first

NorthCascades wrote: »

ninerbuff wrote: »

NorthCascades wrote: »

ninerbuff wrote: »

Ever see anyone depleted from using all their glycogen stores? They don't move.

Yes, I've bonked myself. Continued riding until I got home, but it became much more difficult and painful and my power output fell substantially. I was able to continue exercising without glycogen, by burning only fat, because people can do that.

Also, this only happens when people exert themselves at high intensity. That's what "the fat burning zone" is all about. That's how you do long endurance exercise without bonking, by using mostly fat instead of glycogen, by staying at moderate intensity levels.

The "fat burning zone" is misinterpreted. While one burns more fat by percentage at moderate to low intensity, if the duration is the same versus higher intensity exercise, one still burns more fat calories overall doing high intensity.
And as for bonking, there's a reason gel packs and other simple carb packs are around for long endurance people. The body doesn't give fat as easily as people would like to think. And even in trained athletes, the reliance on carbs is more important. Heck if it were just about converting fat for energy for long endurance, it would make sense to be a fatter athlete with less muscle.
And if you really bonked out, you wouldn't move. You likely were really depleted, but true depletion of all glycogen would leave you in a fetal position.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

The bro-science in this post is very thick. Here are two articles with useful knowledge, written by people who know what they're talking about.

One of the fitness indicators that we hope to improve in the Base period has to do with using more fat and less glycogen (carb) for fuel during long endurance events. As your body becomes better at using fat to produce energy essentially your aerobic fitness improves.

http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2011/01/becoming-a-better-fat-burner.html

... and ...

Fat is the muscles’ primary fuel for low- to moderate-intensity exercise. Carbohydrate is the muscles’ primary fuel for moderately high- to high-intensity exercise. Carbohydrate fuel supplies are very limited in the body, such that carbohydrate fuel depletion is a major cause of fatigue during prolonged exercise at higher intensities (e.g. triathlons and marathons). Fat fuel supplies are virtually unlimited in the body. Thus, by increasing their reliance on fat fuel and decreasing their reliance on carbohydrate fuel during race-intensity exercise, endurance athletes could theoretically delay fatigue and perform better. Endurance training and increased fat consumption are known to increase fat burning during exercise.

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/can-you-become-a-fat-burning-machine

This is common knowledge and I could find you 100 other legitimate references if I had nothing better to do with my time.

You are quoting studies but not placing them in the proper context.

In colloquial usage, when people refer to the "fat burning zone" they mean an exercise intensity at which the body PREFERENTIALLY BURNS STORED BODY FAT LEADING TO ENHANCED WEIGHT LOSS. This is a myth.

Almost no one ever thinks of the "fat burning zone" in terms of an endurance training stimulus.

Cutaway_Collar wrote: »

My head hurts. Will I go to hell if I cardio after weights?

It's fairly simple:

1. Doing a lot of cardio first, esp long duration or intense cardio will decrease the quality of the strength workout.
2. However, "decrease the quality" is a relative term. One can still see significant results--perhaps all the improvement you want--doing cardio first.
3. Doing a heavy or intense strength workout first can have decrease the quality of the cardio workout--ie you may not be able to go as hard or as long.
4. So which you do first (assuming you have to do both in the same workout) will depend on your priorities and goals. (Not to mention personal preference) Do you want to maximize cardio training quality or strength? If so, do that first.
5. Does doing one type of workout first have a greater impact on the one following. For example, if I lift heavy first, my cardio is for sh-t, yet I can do intense/long cardio first and still do a decent strength workout. In other words, strength training has a disproportionately negative effect on my cardio than vice versa. So I do cardio first. YMMV
6. All the other stuff--using up glycogen so that you burn more fat, etc, etc--can be ignored as most of it is wrong.

j_love10 wrote: »

ninerbuff wrote: »

Depends on goals. Glycogen levels get reduced by exercise and if you're trying to get better a lifting, then it's more efficient to lift before cardio since glycogen levels are highest at the beginning of any workout.
If you're working on your endurance and cardio fitness more than strength and muscle toning, then you can do cardio first.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Im looking to build muscle in my legs and flatten my stomach... I have a body type to wear i only gain weight from the waist up which is very frustrating

Flattening your stomach will come with weight loss from diet. If you are primarily interested in building muscle lift before cardio so you can give those muscle building exercises your all. I prefer doing weights and cardio on alternating days so I can start each activity refreshed.

I want to get the most outta my lifts so if I use up all my good energy doing cardio I don't feel as if I'd be as strong. I do a 15 min walk to get the blood flow going first tho.

I'm tired of this topic. It depends on your goals. Period.