Intuitive eating - thoughts?

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Replies

  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    8. Respect Your Body Yeah, no. I'm not gonna settle for an obese weight just because I intuitively like to be there. Dieting needs to be made "as simple as possible, but no simpler". Putting in zero effort is not an option.

    I'm not really interpreting it that way...I'm looking at it more like not everyone can be a size zero for example...my wife, while quite lean will never be a size zero because she has an athletic build and larger bone structure...she's not petite and never will be and it would be unreasonable for her to think she could be...but you see that a lot...people trying to be some body shape that they genetically can't be...also think things like thigh gap, etc.

    I'm not interpreting this to mean that it's just ok to be obese because that's just the way you are...

    At the beginning of my post I touched on that point. Of course people need to find a reasonably comfortable maintenance point. I have delved deep into intuitive eating a while back because I'm always on the lookout for things that will make maintenance as smooth as possible, reading all the literature, articles, books, seminars I could get my hands on. The common direction seems to be linked to HAES in way (I did not want to get into that). Some talks even explicitly mentioned that all you need to do is eat intuitively without dieting, and whichever weight you settle at is what your body wants to be and trying to push your weight further down forcefully will suck you back into the dieting mentality, and even if you lose nothing at least you will be happy and learn to accept yourself. It's not an issue of aspiring for an impossible body shape or desiring to be at the bottom of the normal BMI scale.

    I think this is still valid though...and isn't necessarily meant to say, "you're obese...it's ok." I've learned that about 180 and 12-14% BF is my happy place...I maintain pretty easily there without having to give too much thought to things and I can just kind of live my life...it's respectably lean and "fit looking", but not exceptionally so.

    I've tried to go lower and it's a struggle because at that point I'm no longer just "me doing me"...so in that regard, I've accepted that given my lifestyle, 12-15% is just fine...it's completely healthy and I don't have to be a diet and exercise nazi to maintain it...I just do me and it happens naturally. I usually just describe it as doing the things that lean, healthy, and fit people do for the most part...

    But yeah...I guess I could see how someone might misinterpret that...but at the same time, if they're settling for obese then they're really not too concerned with their overall health.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    edited December 2016
    Francl27 wrote: »
    I completely agree with the 10 principles actually. My issue is that it's just not going to cut it for most people because...

    1) people who are overweight or obese usually don't have reliable hunger signals
    2) even if people have reliable hunger signals, a lot of people struggling with weight have a hard time saying no to a cookie even if they are not hungry
    3) it doesn't take food quality into question at all. Raise your hand if you can eat 1000 calories of bread and still be hungry...

    Honestly, if I didn't log and just followed those 10 principles, I'd end up gaining weight back. So yeah... good in theory, in practice.. not so much.

    I guess it just depends on where you're coming from...I never really had a problem with overeating per sei...I never had a weight problem growing up or anything like that...I was always very active in sports and in college I didn't own a car and walked everywhere or road my bike and spent a lot of time with my buddies smoking pot and hiking and playing ultimate frisbee...

    I gained weight when I graduated and took a desk job and went from being very active to sedentary but I didn't understand that I would need to compensate with less food and/or start doing deliberate exercise. I didn't actually change my diet substantively when I lost weight other than trying to get in more fruits and vegetables...but I didn't really have to do anything crazy or practice any kind of food avoidance...really, just kicking up the activity level pretty much did it...along with dropping soda as a regular in my diet.
  • ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken
    ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken Posts: 1,530 Member
    Francl27 wrote: »
    I completely agree with the 10 principles actually. My issue is that it's just not going to cut it for most people because...

    1) people who are overweight or obese usually don't have reliable hunger signals
    2) even if people have reliable hunger signals, a lot of people struggling with weight have a hard time saying no to a cookie even if they are not hungry
    3) it doesn't take food quality into question at all. Raise your hand if you can eat 1000 calories of bread and still be hungry...

    Honestly, if I didn't log and just followed those 10 principles, I'd end up gaining weight back. So yeah... good in theory, in practice.. not so much.

    **Standing ovation** You nailed it right there.
  • ScratchyAnderson
    ScratchyAnderson Posts: 12 Member
    So this probably resonates more for me, as the parent of a kid with feeding issues, but it may be worth thinking about for anyone here who's a parent as well. I learned about intuitive eating as it relates to parenting/feeding my child, and helping her--even at age five--learn to recognize her own cues, make her own choices, and speak up for her needs. For many of us, intuitive eating will be a struggle, because we learned along the way--whether at home, through other relationships, or because of our environment, to respond to other cues and influences in making our choices about food.

    As parents, we can't control everything in our kids' lives. And we want to help support their healthy development. But part of this, I've learned through this experience, is _trusting them_ to lead and make decisions along the way. This doesn't mean allowing a toddler or young child to eat nothing but candy and junk. But it does mean letting them control what they eat of the foods you offer (per Ellyn Satter, referenced above), and making sure that at least some of what you offer is what they like. How many of us have bartered vegetables for dessert or pushed our kids to take one more bite when they say they don't want to? This is part of what leads to us ignoring our own instincts about being hungry or full, curious about new tastes or reluctant.

    Ask my daughter to try something she doesn't want and she'll politely say no thank you. Tell her she has to do it and she's learned to say "It's my body, and I make the choices."
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    CattOfTheGarage wrote: »
    crzycatlady1 wrote: »
    I've read their book but for me personally, the intuitive eating method is just not realistic for long term weight loss adherence.

    I can identify with this, but at the same time I feel there are things to learn from the approach. Thanks for the link, OP, I'll check it out later on.

    I think the approach is sensible, but I reject the idea that humans (or all humans) innately intuitively eat, if that means won't eat more than we need to maintain a healthy weight unless we are somehow messed up. I think humans evolved in a situation in which overeating wasn't a problem and being able to eat when food was available was a positive, so that for many of us desire to eat exists if tempting food is around is not surprising.

    I don't plan to count and log at maintenance (and haven't been), but for me it's not intuitive eating, but mindful eating -- I eat based on schedule and with an eye to reasonable portion size.

    I totally agree with the normalizing your relationship with food stuff and feel fortunate that beyond some minor aspects that one picks up in society I have never really been into the dieting culture (and didn't diet when young or before learning how calories and nutrition worked and all that), so mostly didn't internalize a lot of the "X=bad" stuff. I do have some other weird food things due to being kind of obsessive but not things that make me feel guilty based on food choice.
  • kommodevaran
    kommodevaran Posts: 17,890 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    CattOfTheGarage wrote: »
    crzycatlady1 wrote: »
    I've read their book but for me personally, the intuitive eating method is just not realistic for long term weight loss adherence.

    I can identify with this, but at the same time I feel there are things to learn from the approach. Thanks for the link, OP, I'll check it out later on.

    I think the approach is sensible, but I reject the idea that humans (or all humans) innately intuitively eat, if that means won't eat more than we need to maintain a healthy weight unless we are somehow messed up. I think humans evolved in a situation in which overeating wasn't a problem and being able to eat when food was available was a positive, so that for many of us desire to eat exists if tempting food is around is not surprising.

    I don't plan to count and log at maintenance (and haven't been), but for me it's not intuitive eating, but mindful eating -- I eat based on schedule and with an eye to reasonable portion size.

    I totally agree with the normalizing your relationship with food stuff and feel fortunate that beyond some minor aspects that one picks up in society I have never really been into the dieting culture (and didn't diet when young or before learning how calories and nutrition worked and all that), so mostly didn't internalize a lot of the "X=bad" stuff. I do have some other weird food things due to being kind of obsessive but not things that make me feel guilty based on food choice.
    This is so important. I don't really feel the need to separate mindful and intuitive and normal eating anymore, they are all one and the same to me. Normal eating is a negative feedback loop - you regulate intake by eating less after eating more. Mindful eating is consciously taking care of your needs, which include good health, which includes normal weight. Intuitive eating means automatically/habitually eating what you truly need. Nature prioritizes need, and there hasn't been a need for a hunger off-switch until the last 30-80 years. Until then, food has been scarce. And even in times of plenty, there have been cultural restrictions. We used to eat meals, together, and share. The feeling of "full" is an aquired skill. You learn what is acceptable growing up. If your family overeat, you learn to overeat. It's way more difficult to learn to stop eating before you are stuffed as an adult, but it can be done, and it's necessary. Portioning out set meals works for me.

    Then there is the issue of food choices. Some modern foods are made to be overeaten, so to speak. It sets off a positive feedback loop - you eat more, and you just want more and more. The sensitivity to the alluring qualities of (junk) food varies from individual to individual, just as not everybody is going to be an alcoholic or addicted to nicotine or caffeine or gambling or porn.

    Because we have different reactions, mental and physical and habitual, these discussions are going to get inflamed.

    Just as I dislike being told what to eat and not eat, I dislike being told what I should feel and shouldn't feel, and that I'm not even feeling what I am feeling. I'm not much of an emotional eater (grateful for that), but I do have tendencies. When I'm frustrated - often when I feel criticized and have no way of "defending" myself - I feel threatened. One of the greatest threats to an animal, is food scarcity. So - automatic thought - find food. Problem: Too much food. I need another course of action. Get up, read a book, take a shower. Lol, even crying is better than eating when I don't need more food. And learning more appropriate ways to soothe oneself is challenging too, but also necessary.
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    Maybe I am just mentally wired in a different way, but to me that article had more straw men than a Wizard of Oz convention.
  • soozy_q
    soozy_q Posts: 56 Member
    Lost 7 pounds intuitive eating so far. Been doing it for a month. Time will tell i guess. I used to not be able to have chips or chocolate in the house or this compulsive voice in my head would not let me relax until it was all gone. I now have all my favourite 'trigger' foods sat in my cupboards and it isn't an issue any more. Intuitive eating isn't just eat whatever you want whenever you want. You need to be honest and mindful as to whether you are genuinely hungry or just craving. Figuring that out is the tricky part. Intuitive eating combined with some things i learned reading Brain over Binge have been really helpful for me. It's nice not having to use 'willpower' and 'self control' 24 7
  • amusedmonkey
    amusedmonkey Posts: 10,330 Member
    This thread came to mind today, as I'm having a hungry day. I had a whole can of beans in tomato sauce, a bowl of oatmeal and a big salad containing 1 pound each tomatoes and cucumbers plus a tiny bit of olive oil. The whole thing came out at 723 calories for lunch and I was still a bit hungry when I said "enough". I was planning to have spinach pastries, but my hunger level changed my choices. One of the most important rules of intuitive eating is to respect your hunger and to not pick foods based on calories, but based on desire with a side eye on nutrients without obsessing. Spinach pastries are quite nutritious and I wanted to have them, but I would have needed roughly 2000 calories of pastries to achieve the "a bit hungry" level and more to achieve the coveted "comfortably full".

    Intuitive eating rules are nice as a rule of thumb, but not always the smartest choice. They can be too rigid to adapt to certain situations.
  • Francl27
    Francl27 Posts: 26,371 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Francl27 wrote: »
    I completely agree with the 10 principles actually. My issue is that it's just not going to cut it for most people because...

    1) people who are overweight or obese usually don't have reliable hunger signals
    2) even if people have reliable hunger signals, a lot of people struggling with weight have a hard time saying no to a cookie even if they are not hungry
    3) it doesn't take food quality into question at all. Raise your hand if you can eat 1000 calories of bread and still be hungry...

    Honestly, if I didn't log and just followed those 10 principles, I'd end up gaining weight back. So yeah... good in theory, in practice.. not so much.

    I guess it just depends on where you're coming from...I never really had a problem with overeating per sei...I never had a weight problem growing up or anything like that...I was always very active in sports and in college I didn't own a car and walked everywhere or road my bike and spent a lot of time with my buddies smoking pot and hiking and playing ultimate frisbee...

    I gained weight when I graduated and took a desk job and went from being very active to sedentary but I didn't understand that I would need to compensate with less food and/or start doing deliberate exercise. I didn't actually change my diet substantively when I lost weight other than trying to get in more fruits and vegetables...but I didn't really have to do anything crazy or practice any kind of food avoidance...really, just kicking up the activity level pretty much did it...along with dropping soda as a regular in my diet.

    My guess is that most people who have a healthy weight naturally use intuitive eating. So yeah, it works... for some people.
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