Long Term PSMF

The leaner you get, the more potential there is for metabolic downregulation. Thay being said, even for Cat 3s, he recommends no more than 12 weeks without a full diet break of 2 weeks at your calculated maintenance. The calculation he uses will also be about 10% below what you'd find anywhere else, to compensate for the drop in hormones that occurs on RFL.

Now, I've seen a couple of report of really really bad off people (40%+ BF) who stayed on straight until they hit the low 20s. However, I feel that you're going to need to look at this in terms of where your progress goes, instead of an absolute timeframe. For example, I'm probably going to have to pull the plug in my C2 run before the six weeks is up, because I'm already in week 3, and getting very close to Cat 1 bodyfat.

YOLOboi19 wrote: »

trigden1991 wrote: »

If you are obese it may be ok if you take the required diet breaks at 12 week intervals. Once you get leaner, you should spend less time on RFL (Cat 2 = 4-6 weeks & Cat 1 = 2 weeks).

Hate to be the person to say it, but read the book!

I guess I'm also wondering why this is.. I know the mile mentioned some hormonal whirlwind of sorts for females and a little bit of trouble for males but is it dangerous to diet longer than that?

That depends on the amount of bodyfat you're carrying. For example, the guy who plays Paul Blart could probably eat literally nothing and survive for a few weeks. Usain Bolt would be dead within two. While your body can catabolize muscle for energy, it's not very efficient, and the energy content of muscle tissue compared to fat is laughable (roughly 700 vs 3500). Once the muscle has been nommed out, the organs are going next.

Now, that of course is for starvation, not dieting (no matter how restrictive). What you will see happening is that your leptin levels tank, stay tanked, and this puts your body into the last place a dieter wants to me. Tired as *kitten*, lethargic as hell, and hungry enough to eat rotting skunk carcass. The longer you stay there, the worsr it gets, and the longer it could take for things to upregulate once you go back to eating normally. So basically there is a threshold, that once crossed, is going to make your diet less productive (or even counterproductive) because eventually you have to go back to at least maintenance, or you eventually die.

Essentially, such a drastic deficit gets harder and harder to maintain without negative hormonal signaling, as you lean out.

Gallowmere1984 wrote: »

YOLOboi19 wrote: »

trigden1991 wrote: »

If you are obese it may be ok if you take the required diet breaks at 12 week intervals. Once you get leaner, you should spend less time on RFL (Cat 2 = 4-6 weeks & Cat 1 = 2 weeks).

Hate to be the person to say it, but read the book!

I guess I'm also wondering why this is.. I know the mile mentioned some hormonal whirlwind of sorts for females and a little bit of trouble for males but is it dangerous to diet longer than that?

That depends on the amount of bodyfat you're carrying. For example, the guy who plays Paul Blart could probably eat literally nothing and survive for a few weeks. Usain Bolt would be dead within two. While your body can catabolize muscle for energy, it's not very efficient, and the energy content of muscle tissue compared to fat is laughable (roughly 700 vs 3500). Once the muscle has been nommed out, the organs are going next.

Now, that of course is for starvation, not dieting (no matter how restrictive). What you will see happening is that your leptin levels tank, stay tanked, and this puts your body into the last place a dieter wants to me. Tired as *kitten*, lethargic as hell, and hungry enough to eat rotting skunk carcass. The longer you stay there, the worsr it gets, and the longer it could take for things to upregulate once you go back to eating normally. So basically there is a threshold, that once crossed, is going to make your diet less productive (or even counterproductive) because eventually you have to go back to at least maintenance, or you eventually die.

Essentially, such a drastic deficit gets harder and harder to maintain without negative hormonal signaling, as you lean out.

Very much this. If you don't have a specific deadline for your cut, you have to weigh the repercussions and intangibles. I like to start my cuts really aggressively, even when starting at an already pretty low bodyfat, but I eventually bonk and have to throttle back on the deficit. If you are too tired to even get off the couch, then your workouts suck. If you are so mentally foggy that you can't concentrate, your performance at work will suck. If you completely lose your libido and you are constantly irritable, your wife will tell you that you suck. I have also suffered several severe injuries while overreaching during prolonged aggressive deficit. Overtraining hell sucks, and it can take a long time to fully recover from.

HannahSaturn wrote: »

My experience of PSMF is that it can work longer term if you zigzag calories.
Work out the total calories over a 2 weeks or even over a 4 week period and then rather than disperse them evenly each day, have them lower some days and higher others. So for instance, some 1500 calorie days and some 700 calorie days. The human body did not evolve to have the same number of calories every day, and I believe that your metabolism and leptin levels are less likely to get trashed with zigzagging than a constant low calorie level. I would also strongly recommend inputting extremely high calorie days (so 3000 for example) here and there, if you don't want to stop at 12 weeks and take a 2 week diet break. On high calorie days, DO NOT eat crap. Eat extremely nutritionally rich and diverse foods. Also consider taking an Omega 3 (if not eating oily fish regularly) and good quality multivit and mineral supplement.

Have you personally done this? I have just finished a 6 week run doing exactly this; incorporating 4 RFL days, 2 maintenance days and a huge refeed. I dropped around 20lbs and accounting for the 5lbs of water/glycogen I carry, that is about 2.5lbs of fat per week. Very successful and easy to do, for me.

I have an open diary. Several months ago I started a discussion about my food. One community member explained that I had what seemed like a protein sparing modified fast. I didn't know what that was, so I did some research. I still don't know what that is. I eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I have protein. I have a calorie deficit. I have lost 88 lb in 11 months.

trigden1991 wrote: »

If you are obese it may be ok if you take the required diet breaks at 12 week intervals. Once you get leaner, you should spend less time on RFL (Cat 2 = 4-6 weeks & Cat 1 = 2 weeks).

Hate to be the person to say it, but read the book!

Thanks for the info. I've only read the free book. If Lyle McDonald finishes the book for women I'll buy it.