raw till four? ?
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OP, your body NEEDS protein and fat. If you want to eat nothing but fruit during the day, I guess that's fine, but please try to get some protein and fat in your evening meal. Like I said, nuts seeds avocado lentils beans.
No I haven't done raw til 4. I do eat raw produce every day because I believe it is an important part of a healthy diet. But based on the knowledge I have acquired over the years, I do not believe raw til 4 is necessary or more healthy than other ways of eating. I don't need to try something to know its value. I don't have to jump out of my second floor window to know I can't fly and it will hurt when I hit the ground.2 -
OK guys first of all animal protein leaks calcium from your bones! Animal dairy products are mainly consumed by USA Finland England and sweedon. The countries with the highest osteoporosis is USA England awesome and Finland. No one ever went to hospital because they lacked protein. Leafy greens fruit and veggies provide all the protein I need. Forty grams a day is easy to hit. Apes and chimpanzee are the closest animal I'm DNA and they don't eat anything but bananas greens seeds and nuts and there body strength is ten times greater than a man's. Let's not he stupid we are the only creatures that cook our food0
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I think you mean "leaches" but also, no.5
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Many countries other than England, Finland, Sweden and USA have people who consume dairy products.
All of Europe in fact and any westernised countries like Australia and. New Zealand.
Asian people not so much - since many more are genetically lactose intolerant.
But nobody was saying you have to consume dairy or any animal products. But whether you do or don't, you still need adequate protein and fat in your diet.
This can certainly be achieved on a vegetarian non-dairy diet - but not on what you are eating currently.2 -
baristabeannz wrote: »OK guys first of all animal protein leaks calcium from your bones! Animal dairy products are mainly consumed by USA Finland England and sweedon. The countries with the highest osteoporosis is USA England awesome and Finland. No one ever went to hospital because they lacked protein. Leafy greens fruit and veggies provide all the protein I need. Forty grams a day is easy to hit. Apes and chimpanzee are the closest animal I'm DNA and they don't eat anything but bananas greens seeds and nuts and there body strength is ten times greater than a man's. Let's not he stupid we are the only creatures that cook our food
Do you have a source for your allegation about protein being harmful for your bones? Please share.
Oh BTW chimpanzees are actually omnivores, they eat insects and also predate on small mammals.
You would be well advised to eat nuts like them to help add fat to your example diet which appears to be sorely lacking. Fat is essential to health, hormonal regulation and absorption of vitamins.
Some foods actually release more of their nutrition when cooked.
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baristabeannz wrote: »OK guys first of all animal protein leaks calcium from your bones! Animal dairy products are mainly consumed by USA Finland England and sweedon. The countries with the highest osteoporosis is USA England awesome and Finland. No one ever went to hospital because they lacked protein. Leafy greens fruit and veggies provide all the protein I need. Forty grams a day is easy to hit. Apes and chimpanzee are the closest animal I'm DNA and they don't eat anything but bananas greens seeds and nuts and there body strength is ten times greater than a man's. Let's not he stupid we are the only creatures that cook our food
Actually meat is an important part of a chimp's diet, from eggs to chicks to small reptiles to monkeys they eat meat products. Not cooked I'll give you that, but they definitely eat meat.4 -
baristabeannz wrote: »OK guys first of all animal protein leaks calcium from your bones! Animal dairy products are mainly consumed by USA Finland England and sweedon. The countries with the highest osteoporosis is USA England awesome and Finland. No one ever went to hospital because they lacked protein. Leafy greens fruit and veggies provide all the protein I need. Forty grams a day is easy to hit. Apes and chimpanzee are the closest animal I'm DNA and they don't eat anything but bananas greens seeds and nuts and there body strength is ten times greater than a man's. Let's not he stupid we are the only creatures that cook our food
In addition to all the points other people are making about the diets of apes (chimpanzees are apes, so I'm including them), you don't seem to be eating any seeds or nuts. And you don't give amounts of what you're eating, but the kale and greens in one typical smoothie and one large dinner salad will not make much of a dent even in your very low goal of 40 g/day (even by the U.S. gov't recommendations of .85/kg a day, which are often criticized by MFP'ers as inadequate for people in a deficit trying to preserve muscle mass, or anyone trying to build muscle, or older people, etc. etc.), you'd have to be pretty small for 40 g/day to be adequate.
Also, it's called "raw till four." Are you eating your tea before four? Are you not eating anything after? "Raw till four" means you're supposed to have "regular" (cooked, including animal sources) after four. Are you trying to combine IF with "raw till four"?
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Also people have been hospitalized for low protein. Actually because of medical reasons my blood protein (albumin) was super low which caused huge problems including major edema.4
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baristabeannz wrote: »OK guys first of all animal protein leaks calcium from your bones! Animal dairy products are mainly consumed by USA Finland England and sweedon. The countries with the highest osteoporosis is USA England awesome and Finland. No one ever went to hospital because they lacked protein. Leafy greens fruit and veggies provide all the protein I need. Forty grams a day is easy to hit. Apes and chimpanzee are the closest animal I'm DNA and they don't eat anything but bananas greens seeds and nuts and there body strength is ten times greater than a man's. Let's not he stupid we are the only creatures that cook our food
In addition to low albumin mentioned above, low protein is also associated with poorer outcomes related to healing after an injury. It's actually important enough that hospitals have changed post operative protocols. Protein is essential to healing. I would strongly suggest getting health advice from actual professionals rather than YouTube zealots.4 -
I just want to say, even the creator of raw till 4 doesn't eat raw til 4 anymore.
Unless you're in a tropical climate where you have plenty of access to amazing produce AND you're an endurance athlete burning thousands and thousands of calories a day, this program is not for you.
Ever wondered why she advocates "smashing in the calories"? It's because she only gets enough protein and fats in her diet by eating 4,000 + calories a day. How does she stay so slim eating so many calories? Take a look at her strava for an idea of how much she burns on her "not difficult, easy pace" bike rides.
P.S. In 2015 here was her data JUST from riding. She does other stuff as well.
Cycling
Distance 12,307.9km
Time 612h 15m
Elevation Gain 218,444m
Rides 329
This is nearly 2 hours of bike riding and 37k distance (22 miles) uphill every single day.5 -
baristabeannz wrote: »OK guys first of all animal protein leaks calcium from your bones! Animal dairy products are mainly consumed by USA Finland England and sweedon. The countries with the highest osteoporosis is USA England awesome and Finland. No one ever went to hospital because they lacked protein. Leafy greens fruit and veggies provide all the protein I need. Forty grams a day is easy to hit. Apes and chimpanzee are the closest animal I'm DNA and they don't eat anything but bananas greens seeds and nuts and there body strength is ten times greater than a man's. Let's not he stupid we are the only creatures that cook our food
A diet where your protein comes from fruit and vegetables is almost certainly going to be deficient in certain amino acids, specifically lysine. I say this to you as a long term vegan (ten years). You don't need animal protein to live, but you do need protein. People can and have gotten sick from protein deficiency -- your body requires an assortment of amino acids, some of which are going to be very, very low on a diet where your protein is coming only from fruits and vegetables.
Let's not be stupid, okay? There are actual experts on vegan nutrition out there (that is, not YouTubers trying to make a buck) and they won't tell you that protein isn't an issue.5 -
baristabeannz wrote: »OK guys first of all animal protein leaks calcium from your bones! Animal dairy products are mainly consumed by USA Finland England and sweedon. The countries with the highest osteoporosis is USA England awesome and Finland. No one ever went to hospital because they lacked protein. Leafy greens fruit and veggies provide all the protein I need. Forty grams a day is easy to hit. Apes and chimpanzee are the closest animal I'm DNA and they don't eat anything but bananas greens seeds and nuts and there body strength is ten times greater than a man's. Let's not he stupid we are the only creatures that cook our food
OP, several of the posters suggesting you increase protein and fat in your planned diet are in fact vegan or vegetarian. They are not trying to get you to eat meat or dairy, they are trying to help you learn what is required in any kind of diet you choose to eat. As others have said, there are several things your DNA-relative apes and chimps eat that you are not including in your plan, so it seems they know better than you do anyway.
Yes, I suppose we are the only animal that cooks our food. We are also the only animal to write poetry, create rockets that can go into space, and other cool stuff. We evolved past the apes and the chimps, is everything we do differently than them unhealthy? All any of us are suggesting is to at least include some nuts and beans in your day. I think the apes would approve.9 -
True. Thanks xx. God bless everyone today and it's been a great chat.0
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baristabeannz wrote: »OK guys first of all animal protein leaks calcium from your bones! Animal dairy products are mainly consumed by USA Finland England and sweedon. The countries with the highest osteoporosis is USA England awesome and Finland. No one ever went to hospital because they lacked protein. Leafy greens fruit and veggies provide all the protein I need. Forty grams a day is easy to hit. Apes and chimpanzee are the closest animal I'm DNA and they don't eat anything but bananas greens seeds and nuts and there body strength is ten times greater than a man's. Let's not he stupid we are the only creatures that cook our food
Well, let's not be stupid...humans have been cooking for about 1.9 million years...
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I'm going to go get a napkin because I just got served. Haha actually a really great chat and I appreciate your feedback and different views. Thank-you it has me thinking. Cheers team. This is the good side of hoping mfp community we can nut this stuff out5
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baristabeannz wrote: »I'm going to go get a napkin because I just got served. Haha actually a really great chat and I appreciate your feedback and different views. Thank-you it has me thinking. Cheers team. This is the good side of hoping mfp community we can nut this stuff out
Thanks for being open to listening! We usually just get told how rude and mean we are. :laugh:
Keep looking for what's right for you. I really respect @janejellyroll, she is inspiring to me, and has a good handle on managing vegan balanced with nutrition and health. Another one, although I haven't seen him around much is @BecomingBane.3 -
Im not rawtill4 but i am hclf vegan.
I eat rice at night and im always at a deficit.
It works, you just need to eat less than you burn.
Dont stuff yourself. I tried tawtill4 the "incorrect way" and i stuffed myself with 10 bananas a day and 6 cups of rice. No lol. I gained about 6 pounds0 -
baristabeannz wrote: »OK guys first of all animal protein leaks calcium from your bones! Animal dairy products are mainly consumed by USA Finland England and sweedon. The countries with the highest osteoporosis is USA England awesome and Finland. No one ever went to hospital because they lacked protein. Leafy greens fruit and veggies provide all the protein I need. Forty grams a day is easy to hit. Apes and chimpanzee are the closest animal I'm DNA and they don't eat anything but bananas greens seeds and nuts and there body strength is ten times greater than a man's. Let's not he stupid we are the only creatures that cook our food
Please post scientific evidence. Thanks.
Do you even KNOW proteins role in the body? Hint: It's not just for muscle... and no, leafy greens and veggies do not have adequate protein.
This has to be one of the most ignorant things I've read on mfp. Seriously. Not backed by science, full of scaremongering, misinformation of apes and chips (they DO eat flesh...shame on you, they're omnivores!!!).2 -
How many bananas do you eat now per day?i eat around 4 as ND at night two potato's and kumura. I have a whole pineapple for lunch and a juice during the day. Around 1500 calories I am concerned I might be starting to gain raw till four I will wait and seeveganfaceholex wrote: »Im not rawtill4 but i am hclf vegan.
I eat rice at night and im always at a deficit.
It works, you just need to eat less than you burn.
Dont stuff yourself. I tried tawtill4 the "incorrect way" and i stuffed myself with 10 bananas a day and 6 cups of rice. No lol. I gained about 6 pounds
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rainbowbow wrote: »I just want to say, even the creator of raw till 4 doesn't eat raw til 4 anymore.
Unless you're in a tropical climate where you have plenty of access to amazing produce AND you're an endurance athlete burning thousands and thousands of calories a day, this program is not for you.
Ever wondered why she advocates "smashing in the calories"? It's because she only gets enough protein and fats in her diet by eating 4,000 + calories a day. How does she stay so slim eating so many calories? Take a look at her strava for an idea of how much she burns on her "not difficult, easy pace" bike rides.
P.S. In 2015 here was her data JUST from riding. She does other stuff as well.
Cycling
Distance 12,307.9km
Time 612h 15m
Elevation Gain 218,444m
Rides 329
This is nearly 2 hours of bike riding and 37k distance (22 miles) uphill every single day.
and if you look at said person they have little lean muscle mass.I cant see where that person has any decent amount of muscle. but then again I stay away from the persons videos and other bunk they promote. many people have become sick,overweight, etc after trying that persons way of eating because that person promoted it would help with diabetes,insulin resistance and even cancer.which we know with diabetes/insulin resistance a lot of people cant do high carb. not to mention this person says you can eat more than 4000+ calories a day and not gain any weight. which we know thats not true unless like you said the person is an athlete
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Um.. Do you not consume any significant sources of fat or protein? All you need to be is in a caloric deficit. That sounds like one of the most ridiculous fad diets I've ever heard of to be painfully honest.2
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And why 4? Why not 4:01, 4:02, or even 5? It sounds like you're looking for a paleo diet. Also, skip the white rice and eat some quinoa or wild rice.1
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Um.. Do you not consume any significant sources of fat or protein? All you need to be is in a caloric deficit. That sounds like one of the most ridiculous fad diets I've ever heard of to be painfully honest.
And completely unneccessary to achieve healthy nutrition!
Since when has eating a balanced and varied doet become so Taboo??
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Christine_72 wrote: »Um.. Do you not consume any significant sources of fat or protein? All you need to be is in a caloric deficit. That sounds like one of the most ridiculous fad diets I've ever heard of to be painfully honest.
And completely unneccessary to achieve healthy nutrition!
Since when has eating a balanced and varied doet become so Taboo??
Unfortunately, since someone decided making some fake studies proving their made up "healthy" weight loss scheme could make them some money.3 -
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Like paleo, yes, it's a fad, even the RT4 diet's authors don't do it anymore.baristabeannz wrote: »..... Has anyone tried raw till four or are you all assuming it's fad not a lifestyle?
Does it work? Any diet will work if it creates a calorie deficit. This diet tells people that calories don't matter and that anything under 2100 is severely restricting and not recommended. Lots of girls bought into this BS, "smashed in the calories" and got fat. Then they were told it's part of the "recovery" from "metabolic damage" and that it can take years to recover. Good thing folks are seeing through the BS and realizing that you can't ignore calories and you can't eat the same amount as highly active people if you're not, and expect to be as skinny as them.
If you want to eat vegan that's fine but instead of going by a Youtuber's fad diet, listen to the plant based experts like Dr. Michael Greger, Dr. John McDougall, Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. Neal Barnard, even Dr. Joel Furhman etc. If you're not going to eat animal protein, then you should eat plant proteins, mainly beans and lentils. Leafy greens and fruits aren't enough. And you want to be closer to 1g/kg so your 40g seems a bit low.
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Traveler120 wrote: »
Like paleo, yes, it's a fad, even the RT4 diet's authors don't do it anymore.baristabeannz wrote: »..... Has anyone tried raw till four or are you all assuming it's fad not a lifestyle?
Does it work? Any diet will work if it creates a calorie deficit. This diet tells people that calories don't matter and that anything under 2100 is severely restricting and not recommended. Lots of girls bought into this BS, "smashed in the calories" and got fat. Then they were told it's part of the "recovery" from "metabolic damage" and that it can take years to recover. Good thing folks are seeing through the BS and realizing that you can't ignore calories and you can't eat the same amount as highly active people if you're not, and expect to be as skinny as them.
If you want to eat vegan that's fine but instead of going by a Youtuber's fad diet, listen to the plant based experts like Dr. Michael Greger, Dr. John McDougall, Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. Neal Barnard, even Dr. Joel Furhman etc. If you're not going to eat animal protein, then you should eat plant proteins, mainly beans and lentils. Leafy greens and fruits aren't enough. And you want to be closer to 1g/kg so your 40g seems a bit low.
I would be careful with McDougall (very low fat) and Furhman (very low fat, limits beans). Furhman's plan was actually what I was trying when I went very low fat years ago -- I felt sick, hungry, and miserable. It all went away when I added reasonable amounts of fat back into my diet. They both layer a lot of extra restrictions on top of plant-based eating (Esselstyn does too, I'm pretty sure). Unless one is trying to address another health issue that requires low fat eating or reducing sugar, there's not much compelling evidence that people on plant-based diets do better when they go very low fat or restrict sugar.
For the general population, I would recommend the work of Jack Norris and Virginia Messina -- they're both RDs, long-term vegans, and practice evidence-based nutrition. Their book "Vegan for Life" contains tons of useful information for vegans, those considering the switch, or those who care for them (like parents).1 -
@janejellyroll I just looked up Furhman and I don't see where he limits beans. They're one of his 'should eat' G-BOMBS >https://www.drfuhrman.com/learn/library/articles/29/the-healthiest-anti-cancer-foods-g-bombs
Also, he recommends beans for diabetics >https://www.drfuhrman.com/learn/library/articles/62/clinical-study-confirms-that-beans-are-the-preferred-starch-source-for-diabetics
I may be wrong but the other docs seem to say 'no oil' but not necessarily very low fat since some, including Furhman recommend nuts and seeds. I agree that unless there's a clinical need for a very low fat diet, I don't believe it's necessarily better.0 -
Traveler120 wrote: »@janejellyroll I just looked up Furhman and I don't see where he limits beans. They're one of his 'should eat' G-BOMBS >https://www.drfuhrman.com/learn/library/articles/29/the-healthiest-anti-cancer-foods-g-bombs
Also, he recommends beans for diabetics >https://www.drfuhrman.com/learn/library/articles/62/clinical-study-confirms-that-beans-are-the-preferred-starch-source-for-diabetics
I may be wrong but the other docs seem to say 'no oil' but not necessarily very low fat since some, including Furhman recommend nuts and seeds. I agree that unless there's a clinical need for a very low fat diet, I don't believe it's necessarily better.
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I remember the quantities on the "Eat to Live" meal plan that I tried (for context about eight years ago) to be pretty low. That may be updated now or I may not remember the plan accurately.
I disagree with Furhman and McDougall (and Esselyn) about the dangers of oils. At the end of the day, this just seems like a whole bunch of unnecessary restrictions to layer on top of veganism/plant-based dieting which is why I wouldn't recommend them to people who are seeking an evidence-based approach to vegan/plant-based nutrition.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Traveler120 wrote: »@janejellyroll I just looked up Furhman and I don't see where he limits beans. They're one of his 'should eat' G-BOMBS >https://www.drfuhrman.com/learn/library/articles/29/the-healthiest-anti-cancer-foods-g-bombs
Also, he recommends beans for diabetics >https://www.drfuhrman.com/learn/library/articles/62/clinical-study-confirms-that-beans-are-the-preferred-starch-source-for-diabetics
I may be wrong but the other docs seem to say 'no oil' but not necessarily very low fat since some, including Furhman recommend nuts and seeds. I agree that unless there's a clinical need for a very low fat diet, I don't believe it's necessarily better.
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I remember the quantities on the "Eat to Live" meal plan that I tried (for context about eight years ago) to be pretty low. That may be updated now or I may not remember the plan accurately.
I disagree with Furhman and McDougall (and Esselyn) about the dangers of oils. At the end of the day, this just seems like a whole bunch of unnecessary restrictions to layer on top of veganism/plant-based dieting which is why I wouldn't recommend them to people who are seeking an evidence-based approach to vegan/plant-based nutrition.
Fair enough. I'll check out the two RDs you mentioned.0
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