Gaining strength versus muscle?
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wndlady
Posts: 70 Member
I've seen a few people comment not to confuse the two. Can you get stronger without gaining muscle? I do martial arts for exercise and we often do pushups, lunges, ab work. Wondering how you could get stronger without building muscle. Thanks.
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I've seen a few people comment not to confuse the two. Can you get stronger without gaining muscle? I do martial arts for exercise and we often do pushups, lunges, ab work. Wondering how you could get stronger without building muscle. Thanks.
Neuromuscular adaptation. Essentially, the strength is already there to be used, but your brain doesn't know how. It's kind of like that old saying about 10,000 hours to become an expert at something.8 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »I've seen a few people comment not to confuse the two. Can you get stronger without gaining muscle? I do martial arts for exercise and we often do pushups, lunges, ab work. Wondering how you could get stronger without building muscle. Thanks.
Neuromuscular adaptation. Essentially, the strength is already there to be used, but your brain doesn't know how. It's kind of like that old saying about 10,000 hours to become an expert at something.
Basically.
Even without increasing muscle mass, the muscle fibers can become more efficient at firing in unison to exert more power, thus making you "stronger" without making you bigger.
I've read that newbie lifters will experience these strength gains at first and muscle growth doesn't really kick in until after the first few months.1 -
Ok, so just maximizing muscle that was already available. Does this help with weight loss or just increases overall fitness?1
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You can build strength without mass by straining to do one really hard rep. Look at Denis Rogers. He bends steel, breaks chains, drives nails through boards, and arm wrestled.0
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Okay so question. I hit a new squat PR about every 2 weeks. Last week I was able to do 3x240 at the end of a set when all my muscles were exhausted. This will I will add on more reps to each set and also finish with 3x250. Is this building strength or building muscle? Kinda confusing. I assumed I was doing both.0
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peaceout_aly wrote: »Okay so question. I hit a new squat PR about every 2 weeks. Last week I was able to do 3x240 at the end of a set when all my muscles were exhausted. This will I will add on more reps to each set and also finish with 3x250. Is this building strength or building muscle? Kinda confusing. I assumed I was doing both.
I would call that building strength for sure...as for the building muscle, I think that would be harder to determine without a DEXA scan? And I guess it would depend on whether you're at a surplus, deficit, or maintenance.1 -
peaceout_aly wrote: »Okay so question. I hit a new squat PR about every 2 weeks. Last week I was able to do 3x240 at the end of a set when all my muscles were exhausted. This will I will add on more reps to each set and also finish with 3x250. Is this building strength or building muscle? Kinda confusing. I assumed I was doing both.
Strength? Yes.
Muscle? Maybe. Like samantha mentioned - very difficult to tell without some other metric(s) other than just strength increases.1 -
peaceout_aly wrote: »Okay so question. I hit a new squat PR about every 2 weeks. Last week I was able to do 3x240 at the end of a set when all my muscles were exhausted. This will I will add on more reps to each set and also finish with 3x250. Is this building strength or building muscle? Kinda confusing. I assumed I was doing both.
You are doing both, since I'm sure when you add up all your sets and reps you're still getting enough volume to build mass, along with strength.0 -
Comparative. My training partner is 290 lbs., and he just maxed out at 255 lbs. on bench. I weigh 200 lbs., and I maxed out at 260. Most would think because he is bigger, he should be stronger. Size does not always equate to strength. You can be small in statue and be strong.
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peaceout_aly wrote: »Okay so question. I hit a new squat PR about every 2 weeks. Last week I was able to do 3x240 at the end of a set when all my muscles were exhausted. This will I will add on more reps to each set and also finish with 3x250. Is this building strength or building muscle? Kinda confusing. I assumed I was doing both.
You can do both up to a point. The body is going to adapt to what it is asked to do. If you are lifting heavier and heavier weights, at some point muscle cross sectional size will have to increase because neuromuscular activation can only take you so far. However, you can also reach a point where you need other factors (e.g. Diet) to support continued gains. Without changes, you will plateau. As always, results will reflect training and so training should be defined specifically to one's goals.
You seem to be making excellent progress in any case.
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Comparative. My training partner is 290 lbs., and he just maxed out at 255 lbs. on bench. I weigh 200 lbs., and I maxed out at 260. Most would think because he is bigger, he should be stronger. Size does not always equate to strength. You can be small in statue and be strong.
Lamar Gant ftw. Dude deadlifted almost 5x bodyweight in the (I believe) 132 weight class, which made him essentially insect like in relative strength.1 -
peaceout_aly wrote: »Okay so question. I hit a new squat PR about every 2 weeks. Last week I was able to do 3x240 at the end of a set when all my muscles were exhausted. This will I will add on more reps to each set and also finish with 3x250. Is this building strength or building muscle? Kinda confusing. I assumed I was doing both.
Especially in the beginning, strength increases much faster than muscle mass. Building muscle mass is a slow, gradual process and is more difficult to quantify than strength gains, which are pretty easily expressed by the amount of weight on the bar or number of reps.
Here's an excellent read which discusses strength vs. muscle gain and also the factors involved in neuromuscular adaptation: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/determinants-of-strength-performance-part-3.html/1 -
Bumping, still curious to know if strength training helps with weight loss.0
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Bumping, still curious to know if strength training helps with weight loss.
It helps with protecting your existing muscle during weight loss, rather than losing it along with the fat. You end up with better body composition in the end if you are losing most of the weight in fat (rather than losing lots of muscle along with the fat).
It burns some calories which can create a higher deficit and/or more food to eat, which can make weight loss happen faster if you don't eat back the calories (or more pleasantly, if you do)
The muscular adaptations themselves don't actually burn more calories or increase metabolism if that's what you are asking. That takes more mass.
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Docbanana2002 wrote: »Bumping, still curious to know if strength training helps with weight loss.
It helps with protecting your existing muscle during weight loss, rather than losing it along with the fat. You end up with better body composition in the end if you are losing most of the weight in fat (rather than losing lots of muscle along with the fat).
It burns some calories which can create a higher deficit and/or more food to eat, which can make weight loss happen faster if you don't eat back the calories (or more pleasantly, if you do)
The muscular adaptations themselves don't actually burn more calories or increase metabolism if that's what you are asking. That takes more mass.
This.
It doesn't help in the way you are wanting it to help, other than a small calorie burn, but everything stated above is important and why you should continue to do so.1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »I've seen a few people comment not to confuse the two. Can you get stronger without gaining muscle? I do martial arts for exercise and we often do pushups, lunges, ab work. Wondering how you could get stronger without building muscle. Thanks.
Neuromuscular adaptation. Essentially, the strength is already there to be used, but your brain doesn't know how. It's kind of like that old saying about 10,000 hours to become an expert at something.
Yup...Bumping, still curious to know if strength training helps with weight loss.
Weight loss is going to come largely from diet...exercise, including resistance training can help in that energy expenditure is increased...but you can lose weight, maintain weight, or gain weight strength training...it's not the training, it's how many calories are going into your body.
Resistance training is going to result in more muscle mass being preserved when you're in an energy deficiency...so when the fat is cut, the result is that "toned" body people are often shooting for...you have to have muscle to have that look...1 -
peaceout_aly wrote: »Okay so question. I hit a new squat PR about every 2 weeks. Last week I was able to do 3x240 at the end of a set when all my muscles were exhausted. This will I will add on more reps to each set and also finish with 3x250. Is this building strength or building muscle? Kinda confusing. I assumed I was doing both.
Especially in the beginning, strength increases much faster than muscle mass. Building muscle mass is a slow, gradual process and is more difficult to quantify than strength gains, which are pretty easily expressed by the amount of weight on the bar or number of reps.
Here's an excellent read which discusses strength vs. muscle gain and also the factors involved in neuromuscular adaptation: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/determinants-of-strength-performance-part-3.html/
True, a lot of people say it goes by the weight you put on, but I always question how much of that is BF and water retention. I have gotten up to 120 lbs. (from 114 lbs.) on a slow bulk since September and have increased my strength significantly since then (went from squatting 180 lb. max for 6 to having that be my mid-weight range with 12-15 reps and 250 lbs. is my max for 3 reps) I guess I just have to wait until the cut to see how much of it is actual muscle and pray that I can maintain these heavy lifts.
Great article, by the way! I can't wait to read it.0 -
Docbanana2002 wrote: »Bumping, still curious to know if strength training helps with weight loss.
It helps with protecting your existing muscle during weight loss, rather than losing it along with the fat. You end up with better body composition in the end if you are losing most of the weight in fat (rather than losing lots of muscle along with the fat).
It burns some calories which can create a higher deficit and/or more food to eat, which can make weight loss happen faster if you don't eat back the calories (or more pleasantly, if you do)
The muscular adaptations themselves don't actually burn more calories or increase metabolism if that's what you are asking. That takes more mass.
Also to add, when you are able to maintain muscle mass, you also help maintain metabolic functions. So over time, you would maintain a higher metabolic rate, and potentially a higher TDEE.0
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