Thoughts on the "potato diet"?
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lemurcat12 wrote: »On diabetes and HCLF diets, I'd ask esfoster5 to check out the end of this thread for the discussion of whether HCLF diets are a good approach. I also have read that they are (not getting into the can it be cured discussion), from reading the same people esfoster5 seems to like. I'm more skeptical about those people in general, although I am pretty high on the WFPB diet being a good approach if done correctly. As you will see, the one person suggesting it might be a good approach got smacked down and didn't really have the knowledge to pursue it. Therefore, if you think the information provided is incorrect, esfoster5 (I'm not particularly interested in IR/T2D myself and haven't done the research), I'd invite you to jump in. I think it would be valuable:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10437679/the-obesity-code-unlocking-the-secrets-of-weight-loss-by-jason-fung#latest
I may not have the knowledge to persue it but I personally know someone managing on a vegan hclf. There are people out there and it is an option. I don't feel smacked down either, I just don't know evough about it which I admitted to. We both agreed it can work but it's not as good as lchf:)0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »You have stated elsewhere that you understand it's about CICO, so if you're eating "mountains" of junk food and maintaining your weight, surely you understand that you weren't eating past the point of your maintenance calorie level?
Surely you understand that the foods you eat now make you feel full at a point where you're consuming them in portions that contain enough calories to create a caloric deficit?
Surely you understand that this means it can't be about the food?
I urge you, for your own good to stop thinking this way. It's fine if you're happy to keep eating this way, but I am telling you from hard-learned experience that thinking it's the food is not going to keep the weight off long-term.
One of the first things we calorie counters learn is how to get the most bang for our buck, calorie-wise. That means eating foods that keep us full for the fewest calories. "Junk food" to you didn't keep you as full, so you ate more, and maintained a higher weight. The food you eat now is more satiating, so you eat less of it, calorically speaking.
It's not that it's the food, it's that you're managing your calories by making smarter choices with it. Junk foods can still be incorporated into one's diet in moderation. If they're not satiating, just don't make them the mainstay.
I think we're talking past each other. You just said yourself it's the food. We can't talk about calories and satiety without talking about food.
No, it's a fine distinction.
You believe it's the food controlling you.
I believe it's me controlling the food.
BIG difference. And a very important one.
It's important to understand how all this works and to not demonize the food so that weight management is possible in an ongoing fashion.
Right now, you're in a honeymoon phase with your way of eating. What happens 5 years from now when you're in a grocery store and that Snickers bar looks might fine to you?
If you don't understand that it's not the food, you'll never get that you can still have the Snickers bar and manage your weight.6 -
I wouldn't have believed it myself until a few months ago, but I can eat mountains of what most diet books would call junk food (carbs, carbs, carbs) and at worst maintain my weight. Unless something changes, I see no reason not to stick with this. I feel great.
Yeah, I don't think anyone is saying don't do what you are doing (you aren't doing the potato diet, based on what you said upthread).
Also, if diet books or anyone else classified carbs in general as "junk food," the person or source is ignorant or lying and not worth listening to [edit for dumb typo], so you are essentially debunking something no one sensible (IMO) would say. On that, I will certainly agree with you.
I personally think I'd lose weight easily on a HCLF diet (I lost weight without trying to when I went plant-based one Lent), and even more so if on a super limited (and IMO not particularly healthy or good for my relationship with food) potato only diet. I also think I'd lose weight easily on a keto diet. In both cases it would take me a while to up calories while changing my way of eating so much and certainly with HCLF you have a ton of volume and I tend to be satisfied with volume eating and just vegetables. Despite this, I don't think that either way of eating is the healthiest way for me (perhaps for others), and believe I do better with a moderate balanced diet focused more on making nutritious choices and not cutting out foods or worrying about macros.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »On diabetes and HCLF diets, I'd ask esfoster5 to check out the end of this thread for the discussion of whether HCLF diets are a good approach. I also have read that they are (not getting into the can it be cured discussion), from reading the same people esfoster5 seems to like. I'm more skeptical about those people in general, although I am pretty high on the WFPB diet being a good approach if done correctly. As you will see, the one person suggesting it might be a good approach got smacked down and didn't really have the knowledge to pursue it. Therefore, if you think the information provided is incorrect, esfoster5 (I'm not particularly interested in IR/T2D myself and haven't done the research), I'd invite you to jump in. I think it would be valuable:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10437679/the-obesity-code-unlocking-the-secrets-of-weight-loss-by-jason-fung#latest
I don't feel qualified to jump into that myself.
No? Weren't you saying HCLF cured T2D?But it looks to me like one random person on the internet criticizing both a HCLF diet and the ADA diet for not being good enough. And attacking the researchers for being PETA funded—again, I'm not qualified to comment on Neal Barnard's animal-rights activism or whatever PCRM does besides promote eating plants.
Yeah, I agree with this, although it's multiple random people on the internet and some popular low carb blogs..1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I wouldn't have believed it myself until a few months ago, but I can eat mountains of what most diet books would call junk food (carbs, carbs, carbs) and at worst maintain my weight. Unless something changes, I see no reason not to stick with this. I feel great.
Yeah, I don't think anyone is saying don't do what you are doing (you aren't doing the potato diet, based on what you said upthread).
Also, if diet books or anyone else classified carbs in general as "junk food," the person or source is ignorant or lying and not worth listening too, so you are essentially debunking something no one sensible (IMO) would say. On that, I will certainly agree with you.
I personally think I'd lose weight easily on a HCLF diet (I lost weight without trying to when I went plant-based one Lent), and even more so if on a super limited (and IMO not particularly healthy or good for my relationship with food) potato only diet. I also think I'd lose weight easily on a keto diet. In both cases it would take me a while to up calories while changing my way of eating so much and certainly with HCLF you have a ton of volume and I tend to be satisfied with volume eating and just vegetables. Despite this, I don't think that either way of eating is the healthiest way for me (perhaps for others), and believe I do better with a moderate balanced diet focused more on making nutritious choices and not cutting out foods or worrying about macros.
I too would probably be quite satisfied with HCLF, but I'd need a bit more fat than I think The Starch Solution Allows. I'm pretty low fat as it is, but I think the parameters of this diet are too low for me.
I might also need to tweak the amount of protein and choose more beans to get it.
Generally, though, I do like those foods.0 -
leanjogreen18 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »On diabetes and HCLF diets, I'd ask esfoster5 to check out the end of this thread for the discussion of whether HCLF diets are a good approach. I also have read that they are (not getting into the can it be cured discussion), from reading the same people esfoster5 seems to like. I'm more skeptical about those people in general, although I am pretty high on the WFPB diet being a good approach if done correctly. As you will see, the one person suggesting it might be a good approach got smacked down and didn't really have the knowledge to pursue it. Therefore, if you think the information provided is incorrect, esfoster5 (I'm not particularly interested in IR/T2D myself and haven't done the research), I'd invite you to jump in. I think it would be valuable:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10437679/the-obesity-code-unlocking-the-secrets-of-weight-loss-by-jason-fung#latest
I may not have the knowledge to persue it but I personally know someone managing on a vegan hclf. There are people out there and it is an option. I don't feel smacked down either, I just don't know evough about it which I admitted to. We both agreed it can work but it's not as good as lchf:)
I am not convinced it can't be as good as LCHF from my own anecdotal evidence and casual reading (as well as my skepticism about the LCHF argument), but don't care enough to research it, since honestly I am bored with the whole IR topic and wish it came up less.
That said, I wish the low carbers and LFHCers on MFP would discuss these things with each other (in a positive, pleasant way, of course) as I would find it interesting. My own bias is that I think the blue zone diets are good evidence that the general approach of the dietary guidelines (not so much meat or animal products, lots of vegetables and some fruit, focus on whole food carbs, get some protein from non animal sources like beans and nuts and seeds, eat healthy sources of fat like, again, nuts and seeds, olives, avocado, some oils, and fatty fish) is a sensible one, and for me it's easier to feel satisfied and eat less if I include some fish and other meat in my diet, as well as eggs and dairy, and some "extras" just for taste like cheese and occasional pie). However, I do think the WFPB approach is a really healthy one and can be great for some, even if I am not convinced that one must go entirely PB to get the benefits (absent a health issues). As for LCHF, I think it's fine and probably good for weight loss/IR for some, so long as you make sure to not go insane with the sat fat, and include plenty of plants in the diet (non starchy veg aren't caloric enough to have that many carbs).
I also think we probably all focus too much on diet when maintaining a healthy weight and being active probably have more of an effect on health.2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »I wouldn't have believed it myself until a few months ago, but I can eat mountains of what most diet books would call junk food (carbs, carbs, carbs) and at worst maintain my weight. Unless something changes, I see no reason not to stick with this. I feel great.
Yeah, I don't think anyone is saying don't do what you are doing (you aren't doing the potato diet, based on what you said upthread).
Also, if diet books or anyone else classified carbs in general as "junk food," the person or source is ignorant or lying and not worth listening too, so you are essentially debunking something no one sensible (IMO) would say. On that, I will certainly agree with you.
I personally think I'd lose weight easily on a HCLF diet (I lost weight without trying to when I went plant-based one Lent), and even more so if on a super limited (and IMO not particularly healthy or good for my relationship with food) potato only diet. I also think I'd lose weight easily on a keto diet. In both cases it would take me a while to up calories while changing my way of eating so much and certainly with HCLF you have a ton of volume and I tend to be satisfied with volume eating and just vegetables. Despite this, I don't think that either way of eating is the healthiest way for me (perhaps for others), and believe I do better with a moderate balanced diet focused more on making nutritious choices and not cutting out foods or worrying about macros.
I too would probably be quite satisfied with HCLF, but I'd need a bit more fat than I think The Starch Solution Allows. I'm pretty low fat as it is, but I think the parameters of this diet are too low for me.
I might also need to tweak the amount of protein and choose more beans to get it.
Generally, though, I do like those foods.
McDougall and Starch Solution are weird, because based on the interviews with him I've heard he thinks too many non starchy veg/fruits could be a problem, as well as being all about the low fat starches and not too much fat (not only no oils, but also limited nuts and seeds, if memory serves).0 -
Um, you can't cure diabetes.
Weird, even the paleo people claim they can cure Type 2 diabetes by not eating sugar.
So alright, you most likely won't cure Type 1 diabetes, but Type 2 is a disease of civilization just like everything else. It doesn't even make sense for it to exist unless the food environment has been destroyed. Which it has.
Can you please show evidence of someone being cured of diabetes? And I mean cured (it's gone for good and never coming back), not remission (under control but still there).
So I could never say a broken bone was cured because there would always be the chance that I would break it again?0 -
Remission vs. cure aside, I think it makes sense to distinguish between "blood sugar currently controlled by diet" which is great but doesn't mean it's cured, certainly, vs. I can eat the way others without IR do and not have any more problems than they do (which does sound more like a cure but one would worry that the person is more prone to having it come back quickly if they don't carefully follow their way of eating).
My takeaway from much of the discussion by the LCHF folks is that they mainly mean the former (it's under control) and not actual cure. Indeed, super low carb diets tend to make anyone experience insulin spikes and high blood glucose when higher carbs are reintroduced even if they don't have IR (and it soon goes away).2 -
MonkeyMel21 wrote: »I watched The Martian. No thanks.
He had protein rations and ketchup/salt for part of it (how many calories in a serving of Vicodin anyway?)2 -
dragon_girl26 wrote: »I was unintentionally trying the All Christmas Cookie and Chocolate diet (or at least, it seemed like it) throughout the holidays, and the only thing it did for me was make me sick of cookies and chocolate. Now I crave salt...
I suspect this diet would have similar results.
I can't imagine anyone doing this for more than a day or two. I'd never want to look at a potato again.
Haha! That diet didn't have the same effect on me. I still love chocolate and Christmas cookies
Joking aside - a few days of only potatos won't hurt you, if your diet was varied and balanced before. The high potassium in the potatoes with encourage your body to lose any retained water along with a bit of fat (assuming you are in a cal deficit). But long term - unhealthy and very boring.0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Um, you can't cure diabetes.
Weird, even the paleo people claim they can cure Type 2 diabetes by not eating sugar.
So alright, you most likely won't cure Type 1 diabetes, but Type 2 is a disease of civilization just like everything else. It doesn't even make sense for it to exist unless the food environment has been destroyed. Which it has.
Can you please show evidence of someone being cured of diabetes? And I mean cured (it's gone for good and never coming back), not remission (under control but still there).
So I could never say a broken bone was cured because there would always be the chance that I would break it again?
I guess what I consider the main definition of "cured" in a medical sense is completely different from everyone else on the planet (or at least MFP).
Me "cured" - a permanent solution
Everyone Else "cured" - relieved of symptoms
The latter would mean, hells yeah, diabetes is curable.1 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Um, you can't cure diabetes.
Weird, even the paleo people claim they can cure Type 2 diabetes by not eating sugar.
So alright, you most likely won't cure Type 1 diabetes, but Type 2 is a disease of civilization just like everything else. It doesn't even make sense for it to exist unless the food environment has been destroyed. Which it has.
Can you please show evidence of someone being cured of diabetes? And I mean cured (it's gone for good and never coming back), not remission (under control but still there).
So I could never say a broken bone was cured because there would always be the chance that I would break it again?
You don't "get diabetes again", you always have diabetes you only get the symptoms under control.
Put a bandaid on a cut and it doesn't bleed -> symptoms under control, you take the bandaid off it'll start bleeding again until it's healed
when it's healed -> the cut is gone and won't come back until you do another thing that causes a new cut.3 -
WinoGelato wrote: »You really should stick around and peruse the boards, particularly the success stories section. There are countless people on this site who have lost weight using a moderation approach, and who have kept the weight off. There are also many people who find moderation challenging so they follow a particular way of eating that restricts certain foods/food groups - whether it be sugar, or LCHF, or paleo, or Low fat, etc. You seem to be of the impression that moderation means only eating smaller quantities of the same foods as before, even if those foods are not particularly satiating. There are some people who take that approach but what I did and what I advocate for on these boards is not specifically restricting a food but rather:
1. Set a reasonable calorie target based on an appropriate goal.
2. Eat a variety of foods within that target that provide nutrition (macro and micro nutrients), satiety, and enjoyment.
This enables me to still enjoy things like pizza, wine, caramel popcorn in addition to lean protein, whole grains, fruits and vegetables, healthy fats, etc.
I came to this site nearly four years ago, lost the weight I set out to lose and am currently maintaining. I'm still here (though the question wasn't addressed to me) because:
1. I still log my foods in the MFP database and plan to do so for the foreseeable future even though I'm no longer eating in a calorie deficit. I think that is a critical component to keeping weight off and why so many fail because they look at it as a temporary diet, not a life long habit.
2. I have a network of friends that I've built here over the years that I enjoy interacting with, that support me and that I try to support as well
3. I enjoy participating in these boards (most of the time) and trying to help people understand how to be successful the way so many helped me when I first started out.
Thanks for responding, even though the question wasn't addressed to you.
I'd say your definition of moderation fits at least two of the three things I wrote in another post: calorie counting, smaller portions, and conscious effort. If that works for you, great. But I don't think we're in any fundamental disagreement about what "moderation" means.
The only reason I'm so evangelical about my no-meat, no-dairy, no-oil diet is that I haven't had to think about food in months, and I've still been losing obscene amounts of weight. And, unexpectedly, after a few weeks, there is NOTHING you could tempt me with that would make me change the way I'm eating for more than a couple bites. I'm sure it sounds too extreme for most people, but it doesn't feel extreme at all.
I can totally see using MFP to log foods. I did off and on for years on failed diets, but after tracking for a few weeks on this diet to get a baseline, I realized it wasn't necessary.
I guess I find building friends and community here long-term to be a little weird, but I find church weird and AA weird, so maybe I'm just anti-friends and community.
Glad to hear you found something that works for you. Thanks again for the detailed response.
Why are you here then? Seems a little weird that you're spending time on MFP if you're not using the calorie tracking option and aren't looking at building friendships and being a part of a community
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stevencloser wrote: »Per 100 grams --- Not COMPLETE, but close
Vitamin B-12 µg 0.00 0.00 0.00
Vitamin A, RAE µg 0 0 0
Vitamin D (D2 + D3) µg 0.0 0.0 0.0
Vitamin D IU 0 0 0
B12 – Made by bacteria. Don't wash the potatoes. Drink dirty water.
A – Fair. Eat sweet potatoes instead.
D – Go outside. Stand in the sun for a bit.
There, you can now live forever on one food.
Except for the fact it's devoid of essential fat and low on protein. Do you want to eat 3 kilos of potatoes every day just to get to the RDA minimum amount?
You would also get anaemic once you had used up your pre existing iron stores
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paperpudding wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »I believe moderation is for people who want the exact opposite...
What do you mean? Honestly. I've never seen anyone do moderation in any way that isn't just low-level deprivation.
You haven't seen me then.
I eat a variety of foods and I lost weight and then maintained at current weight for last 3 years, doing nothing other than eating to a right calorie amount.
I feel far less deprived doing than I would eating only potatoes.
Far far less.
Serious question. This is honest curiousity. I really don't mean to be rude.
You lost weight and maintained the weight loss for 3 years. Why are you still here?
I see others have already answered this - but seeing as it was directed to me I will give my own answer too.
MFP is not just for those losing weight (in fact,there is a whole forum section about maintenance)
Maintenance is long term - for me that includes the accountability of logging - albeit my largely lazy estimate version of logging.
And I like participating in forums - I do tend to come and go a bit from the forums, I sometimes dont log in for week or so and then come back.
I didnt realise I needed to justify that.
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@esfoster5 I'm here because i deleted my Facebook account after joining MFP, i just swapped one forum for another. The difference between MFP and Facebook is that most of the threads here interest me and I'm around like minded people with similar interests and goals.1
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Christine_72 wrote: »@esfoster5 I'm here because i deleted my Facebook account after joining MFP, i just swapped one forum for another. The difference between MFP and Facebook is that most of the threads here interest me and I'm around like minded people with similar interests and goals.
No longer on FB either-MFP is way more interesting 1 -
At least it won't stink as much as the cabbage diet. And you won't have as many trips to the bathroom as with the lemonade diet.
Seriously, potato diet?? I'm 70 years old and for as long as I remember, there have been fad diets. If they worked you wouldn't have any more fat people.3 -
Yes, it goes against everything anyone ever told you, but potatoes are nutritionally complete, and you can survive on them pretty much indefinitely.
NO. They can provide complete protein but to get sufficient protein you will need to eat a lot. You'd need to eat about 4 lbs. a day to get 1200 calories but it would only be about 30 grams of protein. To get the 50-ish grams needed you'd eat closer to 7 pounds of potatoes a day which would be a close to a 2200 calorie per day diet.
Potatoes lack vitamins A, B12, and D.
You are likely to develop an imbalance from too much potassium and it would be hard on your kidneys. Too much potassium can lead to fatal heart arrhythmias.
You'd need to eat the skins of the potatoes to get sufficient fiber but the increased consumption of glycoalkaloids and phenols from so many potato skins would increase your likelihood of eating a toxic dose.
Can you eat just potatoes for a couple months and live to tell the tale? Yes. Should you? No.
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