Paleo/Primal

I didn't lose weight, my cholesterol went up from all the fat, I developed cold intolerance from the low carb and digestion wasn't great. The worst part was that also due to low carb, I never had enough energy to sustain exercise, which is why I struggled to lose weight.

In primal, the guidelines are "keep carbs under 100g to lose weight effortlessly" and "over 300g results in insidious weight gain and excess insulin". A bunch of BS. I now eat over 300g, down to 115 lbs, my fasting glucose and A1c are normal, lipids back to normal, no cold intolerance, digestion problems stopped and I've been continuously active for 2 yrs now, something I just couldn't do during primal.

Bottom line is, for weight loss, ANY diet will work IF a calorie deficit is created, so choose a diet you can sustain in the long run and one that doesn't cause you health problems in the process.

I did paleo for a while because I was curious about it and in some ways it seemed like it would be good for me (I don't care about grains that much so figured they'd be easy to cut). I liked it and found it easy, but was bugged by the bad science/rationales -- I don't see why dairy is bad for me if I react well to it, think legumes are probably healthy things to include in your diet for most, and don't see why cutting out whole grains is especially helpful if you don't overeat them (plus I love corn on the cob which I only eat fresh and in season and wasn't going to cut that out). I came to realize that the things I liked about that way of eating -- the way I was doing it focused on eating lots of vegetables, making food from whole ingredients, sourcing meat from local farms (or hunters, if possible, or wild fish) and eating the whole animal, stuff like that -- were all things that I tended to do independent of paleo (and for reasons not directly related to health), and I could do them without giving up foods that seemed fine to me. I also realized that the reason paleo was easy for me -- I can take or leave grains -- meant that it was kind of pointless, I wasn't going to overeat them. And, admittedly, I missed dairy or being able to buy a quick lentil soup if out and wanting a lunch with some protein.

So I kept the things I liked (which don't strike me as particularly paleo or different from what I was doing when not paleo, but I do like the greater emphasis on eating the whole animal, although I'm still not as good about that as I could be), and ditched the rest. I tend to eat grains more sparingly than some, still (I went through a phase where I was doing a lot of pasta, as that's an easy base for a healthy dinner for me, but cut back on that), but that's more because for me when I think about how I want to spend my calories grains usually don't make the cut (personal preference). I think dairy is a good source of protein and taste (cheese), and legumes are something I would be better off eating more of, so I ignore those elements of paleo entirely. I mostly cook from whole foods, but that's something I did anyway and is not paleo specific.

Paleo plans do seem to differ a lot -- from my reading I saw it as no grains, legumes, dairy, added sugars (and as little premade as possible), but NOT low carb, nothing about limiting fruit. Some versions limited potatoes, which I couldn't see any justification for even within the diet (a tuber is a tuber) so ignored that. Most bacon or sausage from the store wouldn't seem to fit, but some paleo followers eat lots of it. For me the sourcing of meats was a quite important element, as was including organ meats, and yet again some ignore that. Similarly, I understood the diet to include LOTS of vegetables (one reason I liked it) and yet some ignore that bit too, so there's no really consistent element except (IMO) no grains, legumes, and dairy ("primal" is with dairy, but more Mark Sisson's personal thing that also involves low carbing, I guess).

So tldr -- I did it, liked it well enough, don't really see the point of it for me, but if you enjoy it/it helps you eat better it could be a good way to eat, too bad it's often justified with some nonsense about eating like paleo man (when it seems people did eat grains and legumes).

CanadianMissy wrote: »

lemurcat12 wrote: »

I think dairy is a good source of protein and taste (cheese), and legumes are something I would be better off eating more of, so I ignore those elements of paleo entirely. I mostly cook from whole foods, but that's something I did anyway and is not paleo specific.

Paleo plans do seem to differ a lot -- from my reading I saw it as no grains, legumes, dairy, added sugars (and as little premade as possible), but NOT low carb, nothing about limiting fruit. Some versions limited potatoes, which I couldn't see any justification for even within the diet (a tuber is a tuber) so ignored that. Most bacon or sausage from the store wouldn't seem to fit, but some paleo followers eat lots of it. For me the sourcing of meats was a quite important element, as was including organ meats, and yet again some ignore that. Similarly, I understood the diet to include LOTS of vegetables (one reason I liked it) and yet some ignore that bit too, so there's no really consistent element except (IMO) no grains, legumes, and dairy ("primal" is with dairy, but more Mark Sisson's personal thing that also involves low carbing, I guess).

I agree that we also already eat a whole foods diet so that part is easy. I also enjoy and tolerate dairy well. When I tried primal (not paleo) and tracked my macros it DID make me realise the HUGE number of carbs I was eating. I am certainly more aware of how empty carbs can catch up to you very quickly.

I would not consider whole grains and legumes "empty carbs," and like I said I don't see paleo as a low carb diet. My main exposure to it was through crossfit, and most of the people I knew who were doing it ate plenty of carbs (lots of sweet potatoes, potatoes, fruit and starchier veg) and if they ended up going off it it was usually because they found it hard to meet the carbs they found helpful to fuel workouts (some versions of it are okay with white rice for that reason, although it's a grain).

I also disagree that "carbs" catch up with one sooner than any other foods. Junk foods are largely lots of calories and not much in the way of nutrition, sure -- I limit them myself, although they aren't really my main temptation -- but most of them are more like half fat, half carbs (chips, fries, brownies, ice cream). When I started logging and looked at my "excess calories" I found it was a combination of more fat than I needed (cutting back on cheese and added butter and oil was helpful for me) AND mindless eating. Some of that mindless eating was helped by paleo (I don't care about rice or most bread and am happy with a small serving of pasta, so limiting those foods made sense and is something I do without doing paleo) and some of it was just about snacking and not any particular food (or emotional eating) and is something I avoid with or without paleo.

Anyway, turning paleo into just a low carb diet under a different name (as if we all used to be low carb, contrary to the evidence) is kind of a pet peeve of mine, which is why this extended response -- I am afraid this may sound more argumentative than I mean it to. I TOTALLY get it if you feel better not eating grains (or specifically wheat) and found it helpful to exclude it. While I don't eat grains that much out of personal preference/calorie usage, and was curious whether not eating grains, dairy,* or added sugar would make me feel different, I found that it really didn't. So I certainly wouldn't say it was not valuable to cut out those foods based on one's own reaction to them, but I find it wrongheaded for the paleo movement to claim they are bad for everyone.

*I was pretty certain I did not have any problems with dairy, and have even tended to use it as an easy pre workout fuel as I know I digest it easily and tolerate it well, but cut it out when doing paleo as part of the experiment anyway.