Ketogenic Diet: would anyone like to share their experiences good or bad?

silverfiend wrote: »

Noel_57 wrote: »

imo, the "hunger suppression" from ketogenic diets is an illusion. What happens, is that diet boredom sets in from having eliminated 75% of the foods you once ate. After a week or two of bunless hamburgers and few carbohydrates , you just get tired of the limited choices and automatically reduce your food intake.

Completely false, and a very bad excuse. Anyone who is bored from eating the same thing repeatedly simply doesn't know how to prepare food. I have done "low fat, high carb" CICO diets and felt starved the entire time. One year and counting on LCHF and I don't have any hunger problems except those days when I run 5 - 10 miles, but then thats a LOT of extra calories my body is looking to replace.

LCHF is CICO, too.

kgeyser wrote: »

snickerscharlie wrote: »

barni71 wrote: »

I've done keto a few times in the past with a lot of success. I was calorie counting before Christmas as I do like my carbs but as I ate far too many of them over Christmas/New Year I am doing keto again this week as I feel I eat more healthily on this type of diet as I'm not going for convenience food which is what I normally do on a cico diet. I've never calorie counted on a keto diet in the past but I am this week.

Fyi, cico isn't a diet. It's the scientific principle on which *all* diets are based. If you lost weight eating a keto diet, you lost the weight because of cico.

snickerscharlie wrote: »

silverfiend wrote: »

Noel_57 wrote: »

imo, the "hunger suppression" from ketogenic diets is an illusion. What happens, is that diet boredom sets in from having eliminated 75% of the foods you once ate. After a week or two of bunless hamburgers and few carbohydrates , you just get tired of the limited choices and automatically reduce your food intake.

Completely false, and a very bad excuse. Anyone who is bored from eating the same thing repeatedly simply doesn't know how to prepare food. I have done "low fat, high carb" CICO diets and felt starved the entire time. One year and counting on LCHF and I don't have any hunger problems except those days when I run 5 - 10 miles, but then thats a LOT of extra calories my body is looking to replace.

LCHF is CICO, too.

It appears both of those comments were using CICO to refer to calorie counting, which is a pretty common occurrence on the forums, and fits in the context of their posts. They also reference the energy balance in conjunction with keto/LCHF.

Oh, nevermind.

kidodo wrote: »

lost 4 lbs in 2 week , considering I am only a 115lbs person, that is FAST!

Bounced back in 2 days, I promise I was just eating normal during that 2 days (1700calories/day)

Will NEVER do it again.

This isn't that surprising though...

Let's walk through what you're asking your body to do.... "Hey Body, I know you're used to storing glycogen in your muscles and using that whenever I need to exercise, but I want you to now start processing fats and using ketones to fuel yourself from the foods I eat and the natural fat store I have... by the way body, I'm going to do this for two weeks only, too little time for me to adapt properly or have any real physiological changes, but definitely long enough for me to drop a bunch of water wait ( look up inflammation from carbohydrates and water retention" then you get to your goal weight, which is great, but then you say "Hey body, so I know I've been asking you to burn ketones for the past couple of weeks, but I'm now going to push carbohydrates back on you, can you just forget what you did in the past two weeks and go back to burning carbohydrates?"

It takes around two weeks for actual meaningful physiological change to occur for most people, with Keto, generally it takes 3-6 weeks for your body to adjust fully and get to around 80% of its potential burning ketones that it had burning Glyocgen... that's important to note, because ultimately what you're experiencing is an evolutionary response to what you've asked your body to do.

Think of the hunter/gatherer times - during winter or other periods you would have less access to carbohydrates and likely supplement that more with fatty meats and things like nuts that store longer (and have a lot of good fatty acids) - your body then starts to go ketogenic to supply it the fuel it needs through using your existing fat stores in order to ensure you're still functional enough to survive winter, you then come out of winter and have more ready access to carbohydrates (fresh fruits, etc) and your body says "Great, we survived!! Let's just stock up on gyclogen, build up some body fat and rest/restore those injuries you picked up" - where inflammation occurs, pressing water, white blood cells and such into your joints which happens much more when you're fueling your body with gylocgen, because your body realises that it's not needing to ensure it's only response is against starvation'

Keto in itself, of itself will not help you lose weight unless you're following the same principles of CICO that any other diet has; what Keto will do is assist your body in dropping water ( i.e where realistically you probably lost those 4lbs in 2 weeks) and getting it to fuel itself on fat, both introduced and pre-existing within your body)

One key though is not cutting carbs entirely, I eat approx 70-80g of carbs through sources like Broccoli, Coconut, Capsicum, Green Beans, Avocado, Nuts each and every day. It translates to around 45-50G once you subtract the fibre, the reason I'm able to maintain a ketogenic state is that I utilise intermittent fasting via eating windows on an 18/6 ratio - i.e I only start eating from 12PM and finish eating by 6PM - after six hours (i.e midnight, when I'm asleep) my body goes into a natural ketogenic state for the evening, I then get up, have my coffee, do some light exercise and down water until 12, where I start my eating day.

I'm reasonably new to the practice of the diet, but I've spent approximately three months researching everything I could get my hands on to understand it more, understand the risks, benefits and how I could make it work for myself. I'm looking to shift weight, so I'm working on a calorie deficit of approximately 300-600 each day and that is highly important for the weight loss portion, but what I'm also teaching my body to do is become a fat burning machine so that when I am in that deficit, my body is seeking out fats in itself to burn rather than burning whatever it can find.

msolano713 wrote: »

I am so confused because some say LCHF and no holds barred, go to town on butter and bacon, etc. While others say, No you do need to watch your calories, and fat intake if you want to burn fat. I want to burn fat. I have done Dukan Diet in the past, and Dr. Dukan has you limit salt intake, and no fat. Protein and veggies. Keto suggests increase in salt intake, and fat fat fat. I have set my macros to 5% carbs, 25%protein, 70% fat. 1300 calories. What do you suggest? Please and thanks!!!!!!!

Look - 100% you absolutely need to watch your calories if weight loss is your goal - as someone above said, CICO isn't a diet, CICO is pure physics - energy cannot be generated from nothing; therefore if you're consuming less calories than your body is burning, your body needs to burn itself in order to function further.

The key with keto is finding out what range you start producing ketones and adjusting your macros accordingly, once you've got your macros (i.e mine - 10% (Net) Carb, 30% protein, 60% fat) you then work out your BMR which can take some trial and error, the commonly held "2000 calories" is just a rough guide but it is different for everyone. - my body, I'm around the 2050-2150 BMR per day, so I'm looking at approximately

Net Carbs are carbohydrates minus fibre, however I'd suggest only calculating net carbs in unprocessed food, if you eat a piece of bread, mark down all the carbs regardless of fibre because the realities are fibre has likely been added from other sources and isn't attached to the carbohydrates you're consuming (i.e sugar/corn syrup within breads)

The reason people say "Go to town on butter and bacon" is that carbs themselves have a LOT of calories in them, so when you're taking them out of your diet, your body needs to replenish them, I think a lot of people wrongly think this means "eat as much fat as you can" - I personally work on the method of "Only eat enough fat to ensure I never feel hungry) -which is why I'm down at 60% of my calories coming from fat, rather than 70-75% like some.

SymbolismNZ wrote: »

kidodo wrote: »

lost 4 lbs in 2 week , considering I am only a 115lbs person, that is FAST!

Bounced back in 2 days, I promise I was just eating normal during that 2 days (1700calories/day)

Will NEVER do it again.

This isn't that surprising though...

Let's walk through what you're asking your body to do.... "Hey Body, I know you're used to storing glycogen in your muscles and using that whenever I need to exercise, but I want you to now start processing fats and using ketones to fuel yourself from the foods I eat and the natural fat store I have... by the way body, I'm going to do this for two weeks only, too little time for me to adapt properly or have any real physiological changes, but definitely long enough for me to drop a bunch of water wait ( look up inflammation from carbohydrates and water retention" then you get to your goal weight, which is great, but then you say "Hey body, so I know I've been asking you to burn ketones for the past couple of weeks, but I'm now going to push carbohydrates back on you, can you just forget what you did in the past two weeks and go back to burning carbohydrates?"

It takes around two weeks for actual meaningful physiological change to occur for most people, with Keto, generally it takes 3-6 weeks for your body to adjust fully and get to around 80% of its potential burning ketones that it had burning Glyocgen... that's important to note, because ultimately what you're experiencing is an evolutionary response to what you've asked your body to do.

Think of the hunter/gatherer times - during winter or other periods you would have less access to carbohydrates and likely supplement that more with fatty meats and things like nuts that store longer (and have a lot of good fatty acids) - your body then starts to go ketogenic to supply it the fuel it needs through using your existing fat stores in order to ensure you're still functional enough to survive winter, you then come out of winter and have more ready access to carbohydrates (fresh fruits, etc) and your body says "Great, we survived!! Let's just stock up on gyclogen, build up some body fat and rest/restore those injuries you picked up" - where inflammation occurs, pressing water, white blood cells and such into your joints which happens much more when you're fueling your body with gylocgen, because your body realises that it's not needing to ensure it's only response is against starvation'

Keto in itself, of itself will not help you lose weight unless you're following the same principles of CICO that any other diet has; what Keto will do is assist your body in dropping water ( i.e where realistically you probably lost those 4lbs in 2 weeks) and getting it to fuel itself on fat, both introduced and pre-existing within your body)

One key though is not cutting carbs entirely, I eat approx 70-80g of carbs through sources like Broccoli, Coconut, Capsicum, Green Beans, Avocado, Nuts each and every day. It translates to around 45-50G once you subtract the fibre, the reason I'm able to maintain a ketogenic state is that I utilise intermittent fasting via eating windows on an 18/6 ratio - i.e I only start eating from 12PM and finish eating by 6PM - after six hours (i.e midnight, when I'm asleep) my body goes into a natural ketogenic state for the evening, I then get up, have my coffee, do some light exercise and down water until 12, where I start my eating day.

I'm reasonably new to the practice of the diet, but I've spent approximately three months researching everything I could get my hands on to understand it more, understand the risks, benefits and how I could make it work for myself. I'm looking to shift weight, so I'm working on a calorie deficit of approximately 300-600 each day and that is highly important for the weight loss portion, but what I'm also teaching my body to do is become a fat burning machine so that when I am in that deficit, my body is seeking out fats in itself to burn rather than burning whatever it can find.

msolano713 wrote: »

I am so confused because some say LCHF and no holds barred, go to town on butter and bacon, etc. While others say, No you do need to watch your calories, and fat intake if you want to burn fat. I want to burn fat. I have done Dukan Diet in the past, and Dr. Dukan has you limit salt intake, and no fat. Protein and veggies. Keto suggests increase in salt intake, and fat fat fat. I have set my macros to 5% carbs, 25%protein, 70% fat. 1300 calories. What do you suggest? Please and thanks!!!!!!!

Look - 100% you absolutely need to watch your calories if weight loss is your goal - as someone above said, CICO isn't a diet, CICO is pure physics - energy cannot be generated from nothing; therefore if you're consuming less calories than your body is burning, your body needs to burn itself in order to function further.

The key with keto is finding out what range you start producing ketones and adjusting your macros accordingly, once you've got your macros (i.e mine - 10% (Net) Carb, 30% protein, 60% fat) you then work out your BMR which can take some trial and error, the commonly held "2000 calories" is just a rough guide but it is different for everyone. - my body, I'm around the 2050-2150 BMR per day, so I'm looking at approximately

Net Carbs are carbohydrates minus fibre, however I'd suggest only calculating net carbs in unprocessed food, if you eat a piece of bread, mark down all the carbs regardless of fibre because the realities are fibre has likely been added from other sources and isn't attached to the carbohydrates you're consuming (i.e sugar/corn syrup within breads)

The reason people say "Go to town on butter and bacon" is that carbs themselves have a LOT of calories in them, so when you're taking them out of your diet, your body needs to replenish them, I think a lot of people wrongly think this means "eat as much fat as you can" - I personally work on the method of "Only eat enough fat to ensure I never feel hungry) -which is why I'm down at 60% of my calories coming from fat, rather than 70-75% like some.

A couple small corrections. First, when you calculate needs, it's based on TDEE, not BMR. BMR is only apart of the equation. And second, carbs do not have lot of calories as compared to fats. Fats are 9 calories per grams, carbs are 4.

psuLemon wrote: »

A couple small corrections. First, when you calculate needs, it's based on TDEE, not BMR. BMR is only apart of the equation. And second, carbs do not have lot of calories as compared to fats. Fats are 9 calories per grams, carbs are 4.

I use BMR mostly because I eat back any of the calories I burn in exercise, but that's an argument of semantics, either one so long as it's accurate and you remain in deficit will cause weight loss.

In terms of carbs vs fats - again you're absolutely right; except try and consume 50 grams of fat within a single meal, unless you're using something like MCT Oil or eating raw butter, it's actually very hard to get your macro level of fat up, even though it's calorie dense, where as eating 50 grams of carbs? That's an easy snack, hell, eating 300 grams of carbs is usually what some people have for a meal.

SymbolismNZ wrote: »

psuLemon wrote: »

A couple small corrections. First, when you calculate needs, it's based on TDEE, not BMR. BMR is only apart of the equation. And second, carbs do not have lot of calories as compared to fats. Fats are 9 calories per grams, carbs are 4.

I use BMR mostly because I eat back any of the calories I burn in exercise, but that's an argument of semantics, either one so long as it's accurate and you remain in deficit will cause weight loss.

In terms of carbs vs fats - again you're absolutely right; except try and consume 50 grams of fat within a single meal, unless you're using something like MCT Oil or eating raw butter, it's actually very hard to get your macro level of fat up, even though it's calorie dense, where as eating 50 grams of carbs? That's an easy snack, hell, eating 300 grams of carbs is usually what some people have for a meal.

I am not even keto and eat 50g+ of fat in a sitting, quite often. Look at my diary and you see it even on my high carb days. I even do it with 70g+ of protein and 50g+ of carbs. Fat may satiate you, but it certainly doesn't me. And these are all cut calories in my diary. I maintain at 3K.