Apple cider vinegar drink?
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It's a great natural flea protection for dogs!
Not sure thats a great help for us hooomans
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jillrules169 wrote: »Thanks everyone! This helps my research a lot !
Read Jason Fung's book, "The Obesity Epidemic". It has several references to medical studies that he says shows that ACV does help in weight loss. It is supposed to reduce insulin levels significantly. All these people say no but don't back it up with anything. It is much easier to get down mixing it with tart cherry juice.
For sure a calorie deficit will work every time, but that doesn't mean other things can't help.
Fung functions on the "homonal theory" of obesity which blames obesity on insulin. This is a theory put forward by people like Taubes. It is also a theory that has no support in scientific studies. Taubes, as its biggest proponent, cherry picks research, and even rejects research funded by his own organization which contradicts this theory. All ACV may, and the emphasis here is on MAY, do is reduce or blunt insulin response, which is what the two papers he cited in the article I read refer to. Neither study had to do with weight loss, just insulin response.10 -
WinoGelato wrote: »jillrules169 wrote: »Well, the taste hasn't bothered me or made me feel sick at all. It's obviously not the tastiest drink in the world lol... but I've seen a lot of mixed reviews on this acv thing.. so I'm still on the fence. Regardless, I'll still drink my water to fill up more before eating, and do my workouts each week!
Where are you seeing mixed reviews... not here, the responses have been overwhelmingly stating correctly that this will do nothing to help with weight loss.
Ive been searching other sites as well as watching YouTube reviews and seeing others opinions on using acv. So I meant I'm getting mixed reviews from multiple places, not just on here.0 -
jillrules169 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »jillrules169 wrote: »Well, the taste hasn't bothered me or made me feel sick at all. It's obviously not the tastiest drink in the world lol... but I've seen a lot of mixed reviews on this acv thing.. so I'm still on the fence. Regardless, I'll still drink my water to fill up more before eating, and do my workouts each week!
Where are you seeing mixed reviews... not here, the responses have been overwhelmingly stating correctly that this will do nothing to help with weight loss.
Ive been searching other sites as well as watching YouTube reviews and seeing others opinions on using acv. So I meant I'm getting mixed reviews from multiple places, not just on here.
YouTube and blog reviews are generally not a reliable unbiased source of scientific information. As others have posted here there is no evidence that there is any impact of ACV on weight loss, and logically you could say that for any particular substance. Weight loss comes from a calorie deficit, period. Consuming a tsp of ACV is not going to put you in a calorie deficit. Anything that says otherwise is just woo.6 -
OP, normally I figure if someone wants to try something useless for a little while, what's the harm?
The issue with taking vinegar, as some people have already posted, is damage to your tooth enamel and esophagus, and while some people say it helped their heartburn issues, others find it caused heartburn. You stated in your OP that you have already had tremendous success, so why mess around with something like this? At best you will lose an extra lb or two.
Obviously, you can decide to do whatever you want, I just wanted to throw in another two cents
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This is nothing more than a gimmick. It's routine building and you will get the same results by scheduling drinking a glass of water before every meal.
If you are ingesting a TBSP then fine, but I recently filed a death report to the FDA where a woman had died from long term ingestion of vinegar which had eventually eroded her gastrointestinal system.
Everything in moderation.
Oh my! Do you know how much she was consuming daily and for how long?0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »jillrules169 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »jillrules169 wrote: »Well, the taste hasn't bothered me or made me feel sick at all. It's obviously not the tastiest drink in the world lol... but I've seen a lot of mixed reviews on this acv thing.. so I'm still on the fence. Regardless, I'll still drink my water to fill up more before eating, and do my workouts each week!
Where are you seeing mixed reviews... not here, the responses have been overwhelmingly stating correctly that this will do nothing to help with weight loss.
Ive been searching other sites as well as watching YouTube reviews and seeing others opinions on using acv. So I meant I'm getting mixed reviews from multiple places, not just on here.
YouTube and blog reviews are generally not a reliable unbiased source of scientific information. As others have posted here there is no evidence that there is any impact of ACV on weight loss, and logically you could say that for any particular substance. Weight loss comes from a calorie deficit, period. Consuming a tsp of ACV is not going to put you in a calorie deficit. Anything that says otherwise is just woo.
Weight loss does not only come by a deficit. You are not taking into account excretion. Does the body convert 100% of the calories it takes in to fat-potential energy or use it for energy needs only? No it doesn't. The body does excrete some without using it. A calorie deficit guarantees fat or muscle loss but the loss can be greater than predicted by the simple CICO model because the body isn't 100% efficient in converting all calories to fat (some is excreted). Anything that effects this efficiency can cause more weight loss than the simple CICO model would predict because it would cause a larger deficit due to not all the CI being used. It is silly to think the body is 100% efficient in using all of the calories put into it! I've read studies where ACV can reduce blood glucose by 30+%. If the glucose is reduced, then insulin should be too and I think it is proven science that high insulin does cause weight gain. Type II diabetics fight this all the time from what I've read. Anything that effects insulin should effect storage of fat. That does not contradict that deficits will cause fat loss, it just shows that the deficit can be bigger than predicted due to inefficiencies in using all the CI. It makes no sense to think otherwise. If not, tell me where I'm wrong. I know the body isn't 100% efficient.2 -
Hi I heard that apple vinegar is support be good for you. So need some research on it and true. Apple cider vinegar can help you lose weight. The acetic acid it contains helps to suppress your appetite, increase your metabolism and reduce water retention — a great combo if you’re looking to lose a few pounds.. It has other great benefits.
Nope.
On the other hand, please share your research on this.1 -
My Mom made me take it once to help me with a cold (she believes it would help). It tastes nasty, it does nothing for weight loss. The only way it would work is to take away your appetite since it is horrible. If you want to lose weight just log what you eat and then use that information to make healthy food decisions to lessen your calorie intake.3
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Many people experience benefits related to gall bladder issues with it. I try to have a spoon of this http://amzn.to/2j23QXR in a glass of water in the mornings. I feel better when I take it, especially if I've eaten fried stuff the night before, and I don't get pain associated with gall bladder stones (I had a bad attack once). Just don't take it on its own, so to protect your teeth.0
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isabellapanzica9387 wrote: »My Mom made me take it once to help me with a cold (she believes it would help). It tastes nasty, it does nothing for weight loss. The only way it would work is to take away your appetite since it is horrible. If you want to lose weight just log what you eat and then use that information to make healthy food decisions to lessen your calorie intake.
ACV would make me lose a lot of weight because I vomit at the smell and completely lose my appetite for the rest of the day, you hit the nail on the head lol.0 -
Forget the vinegar -- reasons to consume apple cider, taken from Woodchuck's marketing materials:
It can help you win the oh so lauded of late "white working class" (sigh):
"In the 1840 election, Harrison dubbed himself the “Log Cabin and Hard Cider Candidate”. The campaign hoped it would create an image that he was in touch with the common man, unlike his competitor and sitting president, Martin Van Buren. With log cabins and hard cider plastered across banners and posters and Harrison giving free cider away to his supporters, he won..."
It's good for longevity:
John Adams "lived to be 90 years old making him the third longest living president. What was his secret? Adams drank a tankard of cider every morning. He believed it promoted good health, and would cure him of his ailments."
Benjamin Franklin famously (well, sort of) said: “It’s indeed bad to eat apples, it’s better to turn them all into cider.”
However, now that I know Fung is all over the ACV silliness,* not surprised it's this year's thing.
*Anything that is said to cause weight loss without cutting calories or increasing activity = silliness.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Forget the vinegar -- reasons to consume apple cider, taken from Woodchuck's marketing materials:
It can help you win the oh so lauded of late "white working class" (sigh):
"In the 1840 election, Harrison dubbed himself the “Log Cabin and Hard Cider Candidate”. The campaign hoped it would create an image that he was in touch with the common man, unlike his competitor and sitting president, Martin Van Buren. With log cabins and hard cider plastered across banners and posters and Harrison giving free cider away to his supporters, he won..."
It's good for longevity:
John Adams "lived to be 90 years old making him the third longest living president. What was his secret? Adams drank a tankard of cider every morning. He believed it promoted good health, and would cure him of his ailments."
Benjamin Franklin famously (well, sort of) said: “It’s indeed bad to eat apples, it’s better to turn them all into cider.”
However, now that I know Fung is all over the ACV silliness,* not surprised it's this year's thing.
*Anything that is said to cause weight loss without cutting calories or increasing activity = silliness.
Weren't Adamn and Franklin drinking cider, not cider vinegar? Given the reference to the tankard, probably alcohol-based.... So, are alcohol-containing ciders considered fermented food? Asking for a friend.2 -
ClosetBayesian wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Forget the vinegar -- reasons to consume apple cider, taken from Woodchuck's marketing materials:
It can help you win the oh so lauded of late "white working class" (sigh):
"In the 1840 election, Harrison dubbed himself the “Log Cabin and Hard Cider Candidate”. The campaign hoped it would create an image that he was in touch with the common man, unlike his competitor and sitting president, Martin Van Buren. With log cabins and hard cider plastered across banners and posters and Harrison giving free cider away to his supporters, he won..."
It's good for longevity:
John Adams "lived to be 90 years old making him the third longest living president. What was his secret? Adams drank a tankard of cider every morning. He believed it promoted good health, and would cure him of his ailments."
Benjamin Franklin famously (well, sort of) said: “It’s indeed bad to eat apples, it’s better to turn them all into cider.”
However, now that I know Fung is all over the ACV silliness,* not surprised it's this year's thing.
*Anything that is said to cause weight loss without cutting calories or increasing activity = silliness.
Weren't Adamn and Franklin drinking cider, not cider vinegar? Given the reference to the tankard, probably alcohol-based.... So, are alcohol-containing ciders considered fermented food? Asking for a friend.
Your "friend" might like this cider
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUC7a7zm4g4 0 -
ClosetBayesian wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Forget the vinegar -- reasons to consume apple cider, taken from Woodchuck's marketing materials:
It can help you win the oh so lauded of late "white working class" (sigh):
"In the 1840 election, Harrison dubbed himself the “Log Cabin and Hard Cider Candidate”. The campaign hoped it would create an image that he was in touch with the common man, unlike his competitor and sitting president, Martin Van Buren. With log cabins and hard cider plastered across banners and posters and Harrison giving free cider away to his supporters, he won..."
It's good for longevity:
John Adams "lived to be 90 years old making him the third longest living president. What was his secret? Adams drank a tankard of cider every morning. He believed it promoted good health, and would cure him of his ailments."
Benjamin Franklin famously (well, sort of) said: “It’s indeed bad to eat apples, it’s better to turn them all into cider.”
However, now that I know Fung is all over the ACV silliness,* not surprised it's this year's thing.
*Anything that is said to cause weight loss without cutting calories or increasing activity = silliness.
Weren't Adamn and Franklin drinking cider, not cider vinegar? Given the reference to the tankard, probably alcohol-based.... So, are alcohol-containing ciders considered fermented food? Asking for a friend.
Yeah, read the first sentence. ;-)
But they are fermented, no?
Speaking of fermented apples: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/the-alcoholics-of-the-animal-world-81007700/0 -
Please explain to me if acv cuts down blood sugar which in turn cuts down insulin levels which make the body less efficient using CI for fat storage, why wouldn't that result in less fat storage? There are calories lost due to excretion are there not?
I think a better model for CI-CO = Fat Storage/Loss would be:
CI * Efficiency Factor - CO * Help Factor = Fat Storage / Loss
with possible
Efficiency Factor = 0.0 - 1.0
and the Help Factor = 1.0 - 1+
CI is what you put in your mouth, not what reaches your blood stream. CI * Efficiency Factor is what gets to your blood stream. The rest that doesn't get to your blood stream is excreted.
Help Factor would be anything that helpz you lose fat up and above what a calorie deficit would demand. Can fat be metabolized without providing energy to the body? I'm not sure on this one but the previous discussion on CI makes total sense to me.
No laws of thermodynamics is violated with what I've written. All energy into and out of the body is accounted for. Explain why this model is wrong please, instead of no "xyz" has no effect whatsoever without any explanation to back it up and without addressing common sense reasoning that the body is not 100% efficient at using all calories put into it, and also neglecting scientific studies that do show there are other factors than CICO that effect weight loss (such as ACV).
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/22/health/apple-cider-vinegar-benefits/
https://authoritynutrition.com/apple-cider-vinegar-weight-loss/
I don't know if ACV helps with weight loss or not (I think it probably does) but my beef is when people think that anything like ACV helping people lose weight violates some thermo laws and is not possible. CICO is a very simple model and does not take into account efficiency of the body using CI and excretion of un-used calories, etc..2 -
You know who would be experts in excretion of unused calories? People with digestive disorders like IBS or Crohn's. A lot of us happen to have food sort of rush through us.
I've got no scientific mumbo jumbo, and I'm certainly not going to post pictures for proof of what's being "excreted un-used" lately while my IBS is flaring, but it's not insignifcant.
Funny that. The scale is just chugging along, oblivious to what is supposedly being unused.
In other words, what's unused is not statistically significant to make an argument that has enough merit to undermine the basic validity of CICO.9 -
Please explain to me if acv cuts down blood sugar which in turn cuts down insulin levels which make the body less efficient using CI for fat storage, why wouldn't that result in less fat storage? There are calories lost due to excretion are there not?
I think a better model for CI-CO = Fat Storage/Loss would be:
CI * Efficiency Factor - CO * Help Factor = Fat Storage / Loss
with possible
Efficiency Factor = 0.0 - 1.0
and the Help Factor = 1.0 - 1+
CI is what you put in your mouth, not what reaches your blood stream. CI * Efficiency Factor is what gets to your blood stream. The rest that doesn't get to your blood stream is excreted.
Help Factor would be anything that helpz you lose fat up and above what a calorie deficit would demand. Can fat be metabolized without providing energy to the body? I'm not sure on this one but the previous discussion on CI makes total sense to me.
No laws of thermodynamics is violated with what I've written. All energy into and out of the body is accounted for. Explain why this model is wrong please, instead of no "xyz" has no effect whatsoever without any explanation to back it up and without addressing common sense reasoning that the body is not 100% efficient at using all calories put into it, and also neglecting scientific studies that do show there are other factors than CICO that effect weight loss (such as ACV).
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/22/health/apple-cider-vinegar-benefits/
https://authoritynutrition.com/apple-cider-vinegar-weight-loss/
I don't know if ACV helps with weight loss or not (I think it probably does) but my beef is when people think that anything like ACV helping people lose weight violates some thermo laws and is not possible. CICO is a very simple model and does not take into account efficiency of the body using CI and excretion of un-used calories, etc..
You are really fecally focused. I think worrying about this measurement is OTT. Just because you don't have all of the exact numbers, doesn't mean that the system stops working. CICO is all estimations at best anyway, so why not focus on the major factors which you can control, rather than the numerous insignificant factors which you cannot control.7 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »You know who would be experts in excretion of unused calories? People with digestive disorders like IBS or Crohn's. A lot of us happen to have food sort of rush through us.
I've got no scientific mumbo jumbo, and I'm certainly not going to post pictures for proof of what's being "excreted un-used" lately while my IBS is flaring, but it's not insignifcant.
Funny that. The scale is just chugging along, oblivious to what is supposedly being unused.
In other words, what's unused is not statistically significant to make an argument that has enough merit to undermine the basic validity of CICO.
CICO is the main driver for sure, but those studies did show some significant effects using ACV.0 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »Please explain to me if acv cuts down blood sugar which in turn cuts down insulin levels which make the body less efficient using CI for fat storage, why wouldn't that result in less fat storage? There are calories lost due to excretion are there not?
I think a better model for CI-CO = Fat Storage/Loss would be:
CI * Efficiency Factor - CO * Help Factor = Fat Storage / Loss
with possible
Efficiency Factor = 0.0 - 1.0
and the Help Factor = 1.0 - 1+
CI is what you put in your mouth, not what reaches your blood stream. CI * Efficiency Factor is what gets to your blood stream. The rest that doesn't get to your blood stream is excreted.
Help Factor would be anything that helpz you lose fat up and above what a calorie deficit would demand. Can fat be metabolized without providing energy to the body? I'm not sure on this one but the previous discussion on CI makes total sense to me.
No laws of thermodynamics is violated with what I've written. All energy into and out of the body is accounted for. Explain why this model is wrong please, instead of no "xyz" has no effect whatsoever without any explanation to back it up and without addressing common sense reasoning that the body is not 100% efficient at using all calories put into it, and also neglecting scientific studies that do show there are other factors than CICO that effect weight loss (such as ACV).
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/22/health/apple-cider-vinegar-benefits/
https://authoritynutrition.com/apple-cider-vinegar-weight-loss/
I don't know if ACV helps with weight loss or not (I think it probably does) but my beef is when people think that anything like ACV helping people lose weight violates some thermo laws and is not possible. CICO is a very simple model and does not take into account efficiency of the body using CI and excretion of un-used calories, etc..
You are really fecally focused. I think worrying about this measurement is OTT. Just because you don't have all of the exact numbers, doesn't mean that the system stops working. CICO is all estimations at best anyway, so why not focus on the major factors which you can control, rather than the numerous insignificant factors which you cannot control.
I totally concur CICO is the main driver, but I don't agree it is the only driver. The reports I referenced showed acv can help. Why should that be ignored. Maybe some of these other factors like insulin resistance, acv, etc are significant. The attitude that since it doesn't obey CICO (which isn't a correct assumption) negates any possibility of even looking at these other things that could be significant also.1
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