Apple cider vinegar drink?
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See eatingacademy.com. Dr. Peter Attia went from about 20% bf to 7% while increasing CI from 4000 to 4500 cals/day while (I believe) keeping his exercise constant (about 3-4 hours of exercise/day) by eating keto-style. He attributes his loss to reversing insulin resistance. Is he full of it? I don't think so. Is he a liar? I don't think so. CICO isn't the whole story.2
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See eatingacademy.com. Dr. Peter Attia went from about 20% bf to 7% while increasing CI from 4000 to 4500 cals/day while (I believe) keeping his exercise constant (about 3-4 hours of exercise/day) by eating keto-style. He attributes his loss to reversing insulin resistance. Is he full of it? I don't think so. Is he a liar? I don't think so. CICO isn't the whole story.
Did he lose weight or recomp?
A lot of people lower body fat percentage without changing caloric intake.
Additionally, unless Attia went in for some serious lab testing, I'm going to guess, from learned experience, that the increased calories resulted in an increase in the intensity of his exercise, which resulted in an increased calorie burn for the same amount of time he was putting in.
This is a commonly observed effect. A lot of people report that they "suddenly started losing weight" when they "upped their calories" when what is really going on is that the increased calories enabled them to up their activity.
I know my runs and lifts are better when I diet at around 1500 calories as opposed to trying to diet at a lower range.4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »You know who would be experts in excretion of unused calories? People with digestive disorders like IBS or Crohn's. A lot of us happen to have food sort of rush through us.
I've got no scientific mumbo jumbo, and I'm certainly not going to post pictures for proof of what's being "excreted un-used" lately while my IBS is flaring, but it's not insignifcant.
Funny that. The scale is just chugging along, oblivious to what is supposedly being unused.
In other words, what's unused is not statistically significant to make an argument that has enough merit to undermine the basic validity of CICO.
CICO is the main driver for sure, but those studies did show some significant effects using ACV.
Statistically significant is still just a drop in the pond and really just noise when it comes to the practical matter of dieting. You're quibbling.4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »See eatingacademy.com. Dr. Peter Attia went from about 20% bf to 7% while increasing CI from 4000 to 4500 cals/day while (I believe) keeping his exercise constant (about 3-4 hours of exercise/day) by eating keto-style. He attributes his loss to reversing insulin resistance. Is he full of it? I don't think so. Is he a liar? I don't think so. CICO isn't the whole story.
Did he lose weight or recomp?
A lot of people lower body fat percentage without changing caloric intake.
Additionally, unless Attia went in for some serious lab testing, I'm going to guess, from learned experience, that the increased calories resulted in an increase in the intensity of his exercise, which resulted in an increased calorie burn for the same amount of time he was putting in.
This is a commonly observed effect. A lot of people report that they "suddenly started losing weight" when they "upped their calories" when what is really going on is that the increased calories enabled them to up their activity.
I know my runs and lifts are better when I diet at around 1500 calories as opposed to trying to diet at a lower range.
He was the lab tester. He does biomedical research and has all the lab equipment to do so. His undergrad was in engineering, then he got a med degree, then he became a surgeon, then he went into biomedical research. His site is very interesting. I'm not sure what his weight did during this experimentation. I don't believe he increased his activity. He had a routine going and was already doing 3-4 hours of exercise/day when he was at 20+% body fat.1 -
LifeLongFoodLvr wrote: »Please explain to me if acv cuts down blood sugar which in turn cuts down insulin levels which make the body less efficient using CI for fat storage, why wouldn't that result in less fat storage? There are calories lost due to excretion are there not?
I think a better model for CI-CO = Fat Storage/Loss would be:
CI * Efficiency Factor - CO * Help Factor = Fat Storage / Loss
with possible
Efficiency Factor = 0.0 - 1.0
and the Help Factor = 1.0 - 1+
CI is what you put in your mouth, not what reaches your blood stream. CI * Efficiency Factor is what gets to your blood stream. The rest that doesn't get to your blood stream is excreted.
Help Factor would be anything that helpz you lose fat up and above what a calorie deficit would demand. Can fat be metabolized without providing energy to the body? I'm not sure on this one but the previous discussion on CI makes total sense to me.
No laws of thermodynamics is violated with what I've written. All energy into and out of the body is accounted for. Explain why this model is wrong please, instead of no "xyz" has no effect whatsoever without any explanation to back it up and without addressing common sense reasoning that the body is not 100% efficient at using all calories put into it, and also neglecting scientific studies that do show there are other factors than CICO that effect weight loss (such as ACV).
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/22/health/apple-cider-vinegar-benefits/
https://authoritynutrition.com/apple-cider-vinegar-weight-loss/
I don't know if ACV helps with weight loss or not (I think it probably does) but my beef is when people think that anything like ACV helping people lose weight violates some thermo laws and is not possible. CICO is a very simple model and does not take into account efficiency of the body using CI and excretion of un-used calories, etc..
Omg you're clueless lol
If your so smart, please explain. Enlighten me.1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »You know who would be experts in excretion of unused calories? People with digestive disorders like IBS or Crohn's. A lot of us happen to have food sort of rush through us.
I've got no scientific mumbo jumbo, and I'm certainly not going to post pictures for proof of what's being "excreted un-used" lately while my IBS is flaring, but it's not insignifcant.
Funny that. The scale is just chugging along, oblivious to what is supposedly being unused.
In other words, what's unused is not statistically significant to make an argument that has enough merit to undermine the basic validity of CICO.
CICO is the main driver for sure, but those studies did show some significant effects using ACV.
Statistically significant is still just a drop in the pond and really just noise when it comes to the practical matter of dieting. You're quibbling.
Attia's results were not quibbling.0 -
LifeLongFoodLvr wrote: »LifeLongFoodLvr wrote: »Please explain to me if acv cuts down blood sugar which in turn cuts down insulin levels which make the body less efficient using CI for fat storage, why wouldn't that result in less fat storage? There are calories lost due to excretion are there not?
I think a better model for CI-CO = Fat Storage/Loss would be:
CI * Efficiency Factor - CO * Help Factor = Fat Storage / Loss
with possible
Efficiency Factor = 0.0 - 1.0
and the Help Factor = 1.0 - 1+
CI is what you put in your mouth, not what reaches your blood stream. CI * Efficiency Factor is what gets to your blood stream. The rest that doesn't get to your blood stream is excreted.
Help Factor would be anything that helpz you lose fat up and above what a calorie deficit would demand. Can fat be metabolized without providing energy to the body? I'm not sure on this one but the previous discussion on CI makes total sense to me.
No laws of thermodynamics is violated with what I've written. All energy into and out of the body is accounted for. Explain why this model is wrong please, instead of no "xyz" has no effect whatsoever without any explanation to back it up and without addressing common sense reasoning that the body is not 100% efficient at using all calories put into it, and also neglecting scientific studies that do show there are other factors than CICO that effect weight loss (such as ACV).
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/22/health/apple-cider-vinegar-benefits/
https://authoritynutrition.com/apple-cider-vinegar-weight-loss/
I don't know if ACV helps with weight loss or not (I think it probably does) but my beef is when people think that anything like ACV helping people lose weight violates some thermo laws and is not possible. CICO is a very simple model and does not take into account efficiency of the body using CI and excretion of un-used calories, etc..
Omg you're clueless lol
If your so smart, please explain. Enlighten me.
I don't need to. There are others that will do it better than me.
Easy to be dismissive and call names. I'm not interested in that. I would like a real conversation.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »See eatingacademy.com. Dr. Peter Attia went from about 20% bf to 7% while increasing CI from 4000 to 4500 cals/day while (I believe) keeping his exercise constant (about 3-4 hours of exercise/day) by eating keto-style. He attributes his loss to reversing insulin resistance. Is he full of it? I don't think so. Is he a liar? I don't think so. CICO isn't the whole story.
Did he lose weight or recomp?
A lot of people lower body fat percentage without changing caloric intake.
Additionally, unless Attia went in for some serious lab testing, I'm going to guess, from learned experience, that the increased calories resulted in an increase in the intensity of his exercise, which resulted in an increased calorie burn for the same amount of time he was putting in.
This is a commonly observed effect. A lot of people report that they "suddenly started losing weight" when they "upped their calories" when what is really going on is that the increased calories enabled them to up their activity.
I know my runs and lifts are better when I diet at around 1500 calories as opposed to trying to diet at a lower range.
He was the lab tester. He does biomedical research and has all the lab equipment to do so. His undergrad was in engineering, then he got a med degree, then he became a surgeon, then he went into biomedical research. His site is very interesting. I'm not sure what his weight did during this experimentation. I don't believe he increased his activity. He had a routine going and was already doing 3-4 hours of exercise/day when he was at 20+% body fat.
I re-read some of his stuff. He said his caloric intake went up about 50% and he went from 20% to 7.5% bf in two years with equal or less exercise. He went from 190 to 175lbs.
http://eatingacademy.com/how-i-lost-weight
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ACV (or any vinegar really) can help with stabilizing blood sugar. There are a few peer-reviewed research paper on this. Sometimes I take one Tbs ACV in a glass of water after I eat a carb-heavy meal. I almost always drink through a straw.0
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