Easy runs

ThyPeace · January 2017

Hi there. I've been learning to run for a little over a year now. It started when I was out walking one morning. I got so cold that I ran for about 30 yards. And then went back to walking. And then ran some more because I was still cold. (It was 15 degrees out. And windy. And my shoes were basically just cheap mesh sneakers.)

I've slowly, painfully worked up from there to my first run-walk 5k (36:21) in August, an all running 8k (55:11) in early December, and another 5k (33:55) on New Year's Day. Obviously there's no hidden talent for running that was just waiting to be discovered. But I have remembered that I like exercise, and the nice thing about running is that it's available pretty much everywhere and with very little prep work. (I have better shoes and warmer socks now, too.)

As I've worked on learning to run, I've encountered all kinds of little challenges. Lungs that ached (walking helped, and time built up more breathing ability), arches that ached (new shoes and inserts helped), aching behind the right knee (I learned what over-striding is, and stopped doing it), aching quads (oh, so running downhill is hard on the quads? okay...). I've hit another sticking point that I haven't figured out yet, and could use some advice.

I've gotten to the point where I can run for three or four miles without a break. I've done longer distances some -- I think I'm up to a maybe all of 6 times in my life when I've gone more than five miles. Some of those have been continuous, some have had some walk breaks. What I can't figure out, though, is the concept of the "easy run." Everything I've read says that the easy run means you can chat with someone while you're running. One author (Older, Faster, Stronger) talked about how much she loved going running with her friends so that they could chat the whole time.

And I just can't do it. I can say "Morning" to people I meet while running. I can manage a few words to my husband on flat ground. I can grunt "Shut. Up." to him when he tries to chat while we're going uphill. But the only time I can actually converse is when we are running down a hill. I've read many times that this means I'm going too fast. But you know, I can't actually run any slower than I already am. I tried. It's bizarrely impossible -- and at 12 minute miles most of the time, I'm pretty sure I'm not actually running all that fast.

So -- can anyone give any suggestions on this whole "easy run" concept?

Thanks much!
ThyPeace, slow. Very very slow. But enjoying it nonetheless.

__TMac__ · January 2017

I have a theory about this. It's puzzled me for a while. I think it's only for people who CAN actually run faster. The equivalent for us slower people is the "power walk". So if I have a training program that says "alternate tempo (faster) and easy runs," what it really means for me is "alternate my normal slow run and power walking." But that's just my theory.

tobandit · January 2017

I can really relate...I started running in August, and ran my first 5k is October (I could run 7k at this point slowly). I was in the same boat, I couldn't talk...and I was going slow (36.01 was my 5k time). And then I worked my distance to 10k...still slow.

But then it got cold and I did some reading about how to improve my time and I started doing intervals on the treadmill. I would do 6.5km/hr then 12 km/hr, approx minute on minute off. I do this for about 5k.... I would do regular runs too. By mid December I realized my breathing wasn't so bad when doing my regular "easy" 5k run. And now I have an "easy" pace and my intervals. I also dropped about 35 lbs in that time too, and I believe that helped too.

I'm a real novice here, but I totally understand where your at. I think intervals helped my breathing.

Sadly I think I have a torn posterior meniscus on my right knee so I'm jealous that you're running right now

And btw well done with all you've accomplished. You should be proud!

spiriteagle99 · January 2017

How many days a week are you running now? How many miles? As you run more (i.e. 20+) you are likely to get faster without having to force it.

I understand how hard it is to run slower, since I often have the same issue. I end up looking at my watch ever 30 seconds or so and telling myself to slow it down, or I run a mid-level pace until I get tired, and then my body forces me to slow it down.

Running some faster intervals does help you get a grasp of what easy feels like, just by contrast. After you have warmed up for a mile or so, try running fast for 100 paces or so, then slow to a jog. When you have your breath back, speed up again for another 100 paces. When you slow down again, you'll be doing it at a slower easier pace. Most beginners only have one pace, but playing with harder paces can help you develop more variety. In the beginning, it all feels hard, but there are lower easier gears.

Using a treadmill can really help you find your slower pace. If you are currently running 11 minute miles, get on the TM and start to run at 12.5 minute miles. After 1/4 mile, speed up to 12.4 mm., then in a 1/4 mi. raise the speed again to 12.3, etc. When you find a comfortable pace, where you can speak whole sentences, say at 12.0 or 11.5, stick there a while. If you start getting breathless, so you feel like you can't talk, back the speed down. I do most of my TM runs as progressive runs, starting at a walk, then moving up to slow and easy, then faster and but still easy, to faster still. The only time it should feel hard is if you are deliberately trying to do speedwork as part of your training.

tiny_clanger · January 2017

I've been running for a couple of years and in training for my first marathon, and I can't run and talk. I think it's a breathing thing, I need to keep control of my breathing, and I can't do that if I'm talking.
It is also partly psychological - I'm very conscious of sounding out of breath, so I try to control my breathing so I don't, then I get out of breath.

I measure easy pace as am I in control of my breathing? I can't talk, but am I breathing slow and strong, is breathing under control? Can I sing? (I usually find I can't talk, but I can sing under my breath).

LisaEatSleepRun · January 2017

ThyPeace wrote: »

Hi there. I've been learning to run for a little over a year now. It started when I was out walking one morning. I got so cold that I ran for about 30 yards. And then went back to walking. And then ran some more because I was still cold. (It was 15 degrees out. And windy. And my shoes were basically just cheap mesh sneakers.)

I've slowly, painfully worked up from there to my first run-walk 5k (36:21) in August, an all running 8k (55:11) in early December, and another 5k (33:55) on New Year's Day. Obviously there's no hidden talent for running that was just waiting to be discovered. But I have remembered that I like exercise, and the nice thing about running is that it's available pretty much everywhere and with very little prep work. (I have better shoes and warmer socks now, too.)

As I've worked on learning to run, I've encountered all kinds of little challenges. Lungs that ached (walking helped, and time built up more breathing ability), arches that ached (new shoes and inserts helped), aching behind the right knee (I learned what over-striding is, and stopped doing it), aching quads (oh, so running downhill is hard on the quads? okay...). I've hit another sticking point that I haven't figured out yet, and could use some advice.

I've gotten to the point where I can run for three or four miles without a break. I've done longer distances some -- I think I'm up to a maybe all of 6 times in my life when I've gone more than five miles. Some of those have been continuous, some have had some walk breaks. What I can't figure out, though, is the concept of the "easy run." Everything I've read says that the easy run means you can chat with someone while you're running. One author (Older, Faster, Stronger) talked about how much she loved going running with her friends so that they could chat the whole time.

And I just can't do it. I can say "Morning" to people I meet while running. I can manage a few words to my husband on flat ground. I can grunt "Shut. Up." to him when he tries to chat while we're going uphill. But the only time I can actually converse is when we are running down a hill. I've read many times that this means I'm going too fast. But you know, I can't actually run any slower than I already am. I tried. It's bizarrely impossible -- and at 12 minute miles most of the time, I'm pretty sure I'm not actually running all that fast.

So -- can anyone give any suggestions on this whole "easy run" concept?

Thanks much!
ThyPeace, slow. Very very slow. But enjoying it nonetheless.

I have been running for about 6 months only, but I think you are doing brilliantly! I run alone, but I am pretty sure I would be having no easy run conversations either! I say 'morning' to other runners etc, but that's about it. Some runs are easier than others, but none are easy for me yet either. I run about the same distances as you. I do 6 km runs 5 times a week and a 9 km run once a week, with one rest day. Your comments to your husband made me laugh, very funny and I can so imagine it based on how I feel running uphills! Don't worry if the conversations don't flow for some time, at least you are out there and improving!

chrismellor01 · January 2017

I think it's something that will come eventually...

When I started running - even breathing was difficult. Over time and KM gained, I could continue and also breath better. Sometimes I had to consciously bring my breathing back under control and others - it was fine. It did get better over time.

I remember doing one 15K run and chatting with folks for the first 5km. That was fun and also my fastest 5k ever (and uphill). I was relaxed.

Other times when I've run - it's been more a sort of meditation thing - that was cool.

Main thing is to just do it. Enjoy it and benefit from it:)

jennypapage · January 2017

I know what you mean, i can't sing or talk much either. However, i can really understand the meaning of this in the following way. When i was building up to a 5k, the last 5-10 minutes were HARD. I felt the exhaustion in my breath really bad, huffing and puffing and a couple of times even wheezing near the end.I was going quite slow, i'm not a big runner or anything. Imagine a slow jog that got even slower the more tired i became.
As i built my distance up to the 10k, it got so much easier. I can run the full 10k with a very steady jogging rhythm (faster than before) and a breath that for the most part you can't even hear it. I'm not huffing or puffing, but i still can't sing.I don't know if i'll ever be able to sing a song continuously, but as long as i have my breath under control,i'm good.

ThyPeace · January 2017

Thanks, everyone, for the thoughts, suggestions, and encouragement.

SpiritEagle99 asked: "How many days a week are you running now? How many miles?"

In the fall I was running 4-5 days a week and built up to something like 13 miles. Then I kind of killed myself with a 6.25 mile run that left me wiped out for four days, and decided I was probably increasing the distance too fast. So since the beginning of the year, I've been doing 3 days a week of running 30, 45, and 60+ minutes, and one day of about 3 miles of fast walking. Total mileage right now is, hmmm. Including the walking, probably 13-14 miles. As for 20+ miles, well, that's going to require figuring out how to carve a lot more time out of my days. I am doing strength training and yoga/mobility work on the other three days a week, as I also learned that running 5 days a week meant that I was really short-changing my strength. I couldn't do a single pushup after three months of that. After working as hard as I did to be able to do them, I'm not about to give them up! So I went back to three days of strength rather than one day of strength and one half-assed "strength" workout that was really more about stretching than anything else.

I really appreciate all the "me too" folks who chimed in. It helps to know that this is part of the process, and that there are things that I can do about it. I have been trying to use at least one of my workouts each week to do hills (there are a lot of hills where I live), and have done some sprints. By which I mean faster-than-my-usual-plodding. I do know there's another gear in here somewhere. I find it sometimes when I need to pass someone or get out of the way of a car that's waiting for me to cross. I know I can't keep that faster pace for more than a few hundred feet, though!

ThyPeace, tried running on a track one day and discovered what a ten minute mile feels like. That was kind of cool. Not repeatable for a few days. But cool.

BrianSharpe · January 2017

All I can really suggest is ......... slow down and then slow down some more.

Most of us have a natural tendency to try and run too fast and running slowly can be very counter-intuitive. One of the tricks I use to regulate my speed (other than keeping an eye on the pace on my watch) is controlling my breathing. On my slow run days I breath in for 4 steps and out for the same, if I can't I slow down until I can. One of the best things that ever happened to my running was going outside in the winter where I had to a) slow down and b) keep my stride short.

Treadmills are also useful for getting a feel for running at a slow pace.

It takes practice and a conscious effort but you'll get there if you persevere.

ThyPeace · January 2017

Now that I have a few more minutes, I'll respond to a few more comments.

@TmacMMM, I appreciate the idea of Power Walking. That's basically what I do when I take a walk break while running. Maybe it just indicates that that's where my cardiovascular system is right now.

@tobandit, that sounds like a good interval workout. I don't have access to a treadmill, but did something similar over Thanksgiving when I was in a hotel. Hopefully my hotels and occasional around-the-little-block-sprints will serve a similar purpose.

@spiriteagle99, yup, I'll try the intervals. And next time I'm in a hotel with a treadmill, I'll try some more pacing. I definitely found it useful over Thanksgiving. (Boring, but useful.)

@tiny_clanger, I totally get that. I'm a swimmer by nature, a synchronized swimmer by training, so focused and controlled breathing was important for a lot of years. That may indeed be part of the issue. I like in-for-three-out-for-three best, because I like waltzes. When I'm running at that pace, I feel like things are pretty easy. in-two-out-two is maintainable for a good long while, but doesn't feel easy.

And now it's time to go on with my evening. Back later, maybe, for a few more answers.

ThyPeace, not much free time.

GaryRuns · January 2017

I hate things like "be able to talk" as a measure of your level of effort. It's too subjective for my engineer's brain. Plus I like to run alone most of the time and I get really dirty looks from passers-by if I'm talking to myself.

If you're like me consider getting a heart-rate monitor. It will help you figure out exactly how much effort you're exerting. I'm loving my Scosche Rhythm+ but it's still relatively new. I've used Polar and Zephyr chest-strap rigs for years prior to it with mostly success. I had problems with the straps on those after about 6 months of use. They're not that expensive, ~ $80.

And remember you have to have a goal in mind. If your goal is just to be more fit then running at any level of effort will do that. The place where "easy" runs come into play is to help avoid over-use injuries if you're running frequently, and to help build an aerobic base if you're targeting running for distances on the level of marathons where you'll be running for over an hour or two.

And here's an article on how to use a HRM for running.

tiny_clanger · January 2017

When I'm running at that pace, I feel like things are pretty easy. in-two-out-two is maintainable for a good long while, but doesn't feel easy.

Bingo!! You've found your easy pace measurer - 3 breaths in, 3 out. So long as you are maintaining that comfortably, you should be good.

ThyPeace · January 2017

@LittleL78 – Thanks for being amused at my comments to my husband. It was over the summer, and “Did you see the Nats win last night?” was truly him yanking my chain. I’m not a sports fan and he knows it’s not something I’m excited to talk about even when I have the breath for it! I take great pride in the fact that I didn’t shove him off the path at that point. Then again, I didn’t have the energy to do it, so my pride is entirely misplaced.

@chrismellor01 – I hope that I get to the point where an easy run is just a meditation. I can now understand that it’s possible. When I first started running, I had to really concentrate on continuing to run, so there was nothing meditative about it. Now, maybe I can.

@jennypapage – thanks for sharing your experience! I remember the days of huffing and puffing and wheezing like they were yesterday! Oh, wait… Okay, that was two weeks ago. 

@BrianSharpe – I know, I’m trying. And thanks for the pointer on breathing. I have tried in-4-out-4, and for the moment I can’t both run that slowly and breathe like that. I’ll keep trying it, though. That may be what I’m doing on the long downhill stretches without realizing it. Or… hmmm. Maybe those don’t require regulating my breathing at all, hence the ability to converse.

@GaryRuns -- Heh. I am also an engineer by training, though I’m a manager now. And yeah, my weekday runs are mostly solitary. Talking then isn’t an issue though the question of “easy runs” still is. I wear a FitBit Charge HR, which is not nearly as accurate for heart rate as the chest monitors you mentioned. I usually check the trends after I run rather than worrying about the heart rate during the run. I’m sure I’m not running at a pace slow enough to be in the 60-70% of MHR range. And that’s maybe the problem. Even my fastest walk doesn’t get me up to that heart rate anymore, and my slowest run gets me to above that pace. Then again, I’m not even convinced that I know my maximum heart rate. The calculators say that, for my age (49), it should be 160 or 165, depending on the calculation. I see that rate (and confirm it with hand counts) fairly regularly when I’m doing sprints. So yeah. Lots of nerding out that I can do on this topic if I decide I need to.
@tiny_clanger – Like I said above to Brian, you may very well be right. Something to play with when I run on Friday. Or tomorrow, depending on how DH is feeling about walking/running in the morning. (He has a knee with no cartilage in it. Wants to run, but the swelling and pain afterward is not so fun. So sometimes we run and sometimes we walk, depending on how much time he has available afterward to ice the knee.)

ThyPeace, suffering today from the workout on Monday. It's been a long time since I did box work.

tiny_clanger · January 2017

Has he looked at the Jeff Galloway programmes? The run/walk approach is very good for injuries, minimises the stress and enables healing

ritzvin · January 2017

I know for me personally, I get much more out of breath much more easily running in the winter - like it's a lot harder to process the freezing air you are breathing in.

lorrpb · January 2017

Easy run is an oxymoron.

pondee629 · January 2017

lorrpb wrote: »

Easy run is an oxymoron.

Like
"Military Intelligence"?
"Jumbo Shrimp"?
"Greater Cleveland"?

slowbubblecar · January 2017

Like others have said, it will come with time and increasing your cardio capacity. The more you run, the more you will progress.

If you wanted to change things a bit, you could push yourself to run faster for a shorter distance.

I started as a slower runner, but got to the point where I was running for an hour a day (~7 miles) which seemed like an easy run over time. While I didn't like forcing myself to run fast, I planned some shorter runs where I would force myself to be at a very high heart rate (using my HRM) just to change things up a bit and see how I was improving. I started at doing it for a mile, but got to the point where I could sprint a 5k.

Not sure how your runs are, but I noticed the first mile of my typical run was generally faster than the later miles due to having more energy. My body usually takes about 10 minutes to get used to an increased activity level as well, so I usually breath much harder until my body starts to settle in.

zdyb23456 · January 2017

When I first started running I tried to control my breathing thinking it would help me keep pace, plus I didn't want people to think I was so out of shape. Then I said screw it I'll huff and puff as much as I need to! Now I know easy runs are when I'm not huffing and puffing and my breathing is coming fairly easy. Hard runs are when I'm breathing hard and I'm sure every one can hear me

ironhajee · January 2017

Once you keep at it you will build more fitness. It will become easier just like anything we do in life, with repetition and Practise and a healthy diet you will surely succeed and find it easier and easier!

Your lungs will get stronger
Your quads will get stronger
Your arches will adapt (make sure you wear some really good shoes for running)

Challenge yourself to some faster paced runs and then go back and do an slow paced run and see if that helps.

For example I used to run 4 miles at a decent fast pace (7 min miles) and stopped due to back injury and low motivation. So now that I'm trying to start again even the slow stuff is killing me because I lost all that fitness I built up

So start slow, but throughout your week incorporate some "high intensity" or "FASTER PACE" running

Keep up the great work you're doing great guys!

OldAssDude · January 2017

I started adding run intervals to my power walks about 6 months ago because I could not get my heart rate up enough just power walking any more.

At first I could only run for 30 seconds before I had to start walking again. Now I can run 5 miles without stopping, and I can actually keep my heart rate in zone 4 instead of it going right up to zone 5.

I run very slow (about a 5 mph pace), and I power walk at about a 4.5 mph pace. I'm 59 so I have to watch my old joints. I run on paved roads so I got some really good running shoes (Hoka One One Clayton & Clifton 3) that take a lot of the shock off my joints. I am also trying to develop a good running style. I do a heel touch mid foot strike, and try to use a faster cadence with a shorter stride.

Also... Joints/bones/tendons develop much slower than heart and lungs, so even though your heart and lungs are telling you to go faster, your joints may not be ready yet.

As far as having a conversation goes... If I am doing a workout and can have a conversation, to me, that means I am not pushing it hard enough. If I am doing a recovery workout (power walk only), then having a conversation is fine because I am doing it to recover and not for improvement.

Sounds like you are doing great so far, and it's good that you are pushing yourself to the point that you cannot have a conversation. Doing that will increase your cardio fitness level, and eventually you will be able to have a conversation at that level. Then you will be ready to step it up to the next level. And so on...

Good job so far.

GaryRuns · January 2017

ThyPeace wrote: »

@GaryRuns -- Heh. I am also an engineer by training, though I’m a manager now. And yeah, my weekday runs are mostly solitary. Talking then isn’t an issue though the question of “easy runs” still is. I wear a FitBit Charge HR, which is not nearly as accurate for heart rate as the chest monitors you mentioned. I usually check the trends after I run rather than worrying about the heart rate during the run. I’m sure I’m not running at a pace slow enough to be in the 60-70% of MHR range. And that’s maybe the problem. Even my fastest walk doesn’t get me up to that heart rate anymore, and my slowest run gets me to above that pace. Then again, I’m not even convinced that I know my maximum heart rate. The calculators say that, for my age (49), it should be 160 or 165, depending on the calculation. I see that rate (and confirm it with hand counts) fairly regularly when I’m doing sprints. So yeah. Lots of nerding out that I can do on this topic if I decide I need to.

Again, I had limited success with the chest-strap/induction based HRMs. The Scosche is an optical device but it's supposed to be better than something like a fitbit. I've never used a fitbit so I can't comment.

Pretty easy to find your maximum HR if you have an HRM. Do a nice warm-up run for about a mile, find a hill and sprint up it until your HR peaks. Done. The formulas are okay, but if you have a HRM you might as well find out exactly what your max is. What formula are you using BTW? Whatever it is isn't even close to the ones I'm familiar with. The rough one is 220-age. There are refined ones that say things like 208-0.7*age and another 207-0.7*age. Your max HR should be up in the 170s at 49. I haven't checked mine in a couple of years, which would have put me at 49 years old the last time I did, and it was 176.

If you're interested in building an aerobic base for distance races then you do have to "learn" to run that slow if you're not used to it. But there's no doubt that you have to train in your aerobic zone if you want to build up to doing something like a full or ultra marathon. You'll find that as you build up your aerobic base your pace will get faster for a given heart rate.

As to checking your HR while you run, get something like Runtastic. You can set it so that it will tell you, via voice synthesizer, when you transition from one HR zone to another. So if you are running and suddenly hit your anaerobic zone it'll tell you that and you can slow down to get back to your aerobic zone. Of course you need a bluetooth enabled HR monitor and phone so that the runtastic app can monitor your HR.

I'm totally sold on HR training for distance running. Don't get me wrong, it has it's flaws. It gets hot in the Summer where I'm at and your HR goes up pretty significantly when you run in the heat, without reflecting your exertion. And there are just days where it's obvious I'm struggling with a run and my HR isn't reflecting that, but it sure beats "be able to talk while you run" as a measure of exertion!

ThyPeace · January 2017

@tiny_clanger, I have done the Galloway stuff -- it was a great way to start running, and I am still not afraid to walk when I need to. DH runs at my pace when we run together and walks when I walk, but is really competitive and feels as though he should be working harder. He'll occasionally run by himself and push far too hard. We're going to a stride clinic in a couple of weeks that I hope will help him figure out some good ways to work through his joint issues.

@ritzvin, I notice that when it's well below freezing. Since I live in the DC area, that hasn't happened all that much this year. I agree, though. It's an issue!

@lorrb and @pondee629, I know, right? Sort of like a male ladybug or something...

@slowbubblecar, thanks for your experience! Running 7 miles in an hour would be fantastically fast for me; I would be happy to run a 5k at that pace. So it's good to know that improvements can continue for a while before they level off.

@zdyb23456, heh. There's no way I could both run and control my breathing when I started this process. I gave up trying any such thing almost immediately. And I agree -- hard is hard and easy is easy makes sense. It's the conversation part that I can't do.

@ironhajee, thanks for the encouragement! One thing that I really am trying to avoid is injury. I have experienced a pretty bad herniated disc, damaged shoulder and knee joints from swimming, and sprained a couple of ankles when I was a kid. The last thing I want to do is aggravate any of the prior damage or create any new damage. So I run very, very cautiously. And yes, I'm already seeing things improve. When I think about how the muscles all the way around my ankles hurt last year at this time, it's kind of amazing that I kept running at all.

@bcalvanese, I hear you about old joints! And I agree about good shoes. Last summer, I went to my local running store and the manager spent an hour with me assessing my gait and then testing various shoes. I ended up with Mizuno Wave Inspire shoes with a supportive insert, and oh my, I felt so much better! (I bought them because they felt like my steel-toe Red Wing work shoes with inserts, which were the most comfortable shoes I had ever owned at that point.) The manager also told me that he couldn't quite get all of the rotation out of my gait, which he thought was due to lack of strength from being such a new runner. So I've been working on that. I've been doing my indoor workouts barefoot to get my feet more engaged in what's going on, and sometimes doing some of the toe and foot exercises I found online. Lately I have been testing the newest pair of Mizuno shoes without the insert, and it seems to be going okay. I can tell that my feet and toes are stronger, anyway. I'm sure I still have a very long way to go before I can claim to have real runner's feet, though.

ThyPeace, really appreciate all the comments and feedback, everyone!

fitmom4lifemfp · January 2017

ThyPeace wrote: »

Hi there. I've been learning to run for a little over a year now. It started when I was out walking one morning. I got so cold that I ran for about 30 yards. And then went back to walking. And then ran some more because I was still cold. (It was 15 degrees out. And windy. And my shoes were basically just cheap mesh sneakers.)

I've slowly, painfully worked up from there to my first run-walk 5k (36:21) in August, an all running 8k (55:11) in early December, and another 5k (33:55) on New Year's Day. Obviously there's no hidden talent for running that was just waiting to be discovered. But I have remembered that I like exercise, and the nice thing about running is that it's available pretty much everywhere and with very little prep work. (I have better shoes and warmer socks now, too.)

As I've worked on learning to run, I've encountered all kinds of little challenges. Lungs that ached (walking helped, and time built up more breathing ability), arches that ached (new shoes and inserts helped), aching behind the right knee (I learned what over-striding is, and stopped doing it), aching quads (oh, so running downhill is hard on the quads? okay...). I've hit another sticking point that I haven't figured out yet, and could use some advice.

I've gotten to the point where I can run for three or four miles without a break. I've done longer distances some -- I think I'm up to a maybe all of 6 times in my life when I've gone more than five miles. Some of those have been continuous, some have had some walk breaks. What I can't figure out, though, is the concept of the "easy run." Everything I've read says that the easy run means you can chat with someone while you're running. One author (Older, Faster, Stronger) talked about how much she loved going running with her friends so that they could chat the whole time.

And I just can't do it. I can say "Morning" to people I meet while running. I can manage a few words to my husband on flat ground. I can grunt "Shut. Up." to him when he tries to chat while we're going uphill. But the only time I can actually converse is when we are running down a hill. I've read many times that this means I'm going too fast. But you know, I can't actually run any slower than I already am. I tried. It's bizarrely impossible -- and at 12 minute miles most of the time, I'm pretty sure I'm not actually running all that fast.

So -- can anyone give any suggestions on this whole "easy run" concept?

Thanks much!
ThyPeace, slow. Very very slow. But enjoying it nonetheless.

Fast runners can run at a slower-than-normal pace, and talk. I have never been able to carry on a conversation while running. But I have a friend that can maintain an 8 min mile for 26 miles, and do MUCH faster for a short run. She loves to run and chat - I can't even think about running with her, even if she slowed down to my pace, there's no way I could talk while running!!

ThyPeace · January 2017

I did some running this morning with DH. We only went 1.72 miles and ran half, so a very short run. I practiced the in-4-out-4 breathing that @BrianSharpe mentioned. I had to slow down a lot at first to be able to maintain that breathing pace, but found toward the end of the run that I could breathe like that and run at a faster pace. It uses very different muscles to run as slowly as that first part was. I am pretty sure that I could walk that fast with less effort, actually. Or close to it.

@GaryRuns, thanks for the clarification on the chest monitors. I'll stick with the FitBit for now. The formulas I had seen were 210-age (perhaps a misprint from the 220-age that you quoted, and which seems much more common the first page of Google) and 210-0.9*age. So now I need to go look and see if there is much science behind those. And good point on the self-test. I've got some fine hills for torturing myself, so next time I do a hill workout, I'll stop and check my heart rate at the can't-go-further point. Runtastic sounds like a good app, though I'm working with FitBit and iPod. I'll have to see if that's high enough tech for it to work.

@fitmom4lifemfp, you made me laugh. Someone who can maintain an 8 minute mile for 26 miles is running an incredible marathon time! Makes me grin, actually. People are amazing.

Which goes back to @GaryRuns' comment about whether my goal is to run a marathon or an ultra or not. My stated goal is to run a 5k when I am 100 years old. To my mind, that means building an injury-free, healthy body that is highly accustomed to running, and that does it so regularly that even advanced age won't prevent the distance. I'm not looking to set records at that age. Just to DO it. My genetics will likely get me to my 80s or early 90s, so the rest is going to have to be incredibly clean living and an active lifestyle. Plus, probably, the assistance of younger people whose friendships I have yet to make, a community of runners who keep me going, and various other things. Whether it means ever running a marathon or further, I am not yet certain. For the moment, I don't need to worry about whether the goals diverge because really? I'm a long way from both of them.

ThyPeace, one day, one mile, one step at a time.

ThyPeace · January 2017

Ran 45 minutes today, trying to run easy. Later I'll take a more careful look at my heart rate numbers, but my average heart rate was 146. Peak was 165 on a pretty steep hill. Other than that it was steady except where I had to stop to wait for a light. Dropped below 120 then. Felt like a pretty good run and I was able to go on with the day without a rest -- which to me is important because I run at times when a lot of rest afterwards isn't all that doable. I was happy to sit in one spot for an hour this afternoon, though.

ThyPeace, had the day off.

spiriteagle99 · January 2017

You really can't take the 220-age formula seriously. It is a generalization, but not true for many of us. At age 59, I saw my HR hit 182 on a regular run when I was going up a not all that steep hill. It goes up into the 160s when I'm running at my easy pace. If you really want to know, the best way is to test it when you are running an all out 5k race. Alternately, do 1/4 mile sprints up a hill. On the 3rd or 4th repetition, you'll get closer to your maximum.

ritzvin · January 2017

After starting to have doubts that it could be such a huge effect, I can definitely say today that the cold does indeed really F* my aerobic capacity. After a month of being out of breath on short 2 minute running intervals and needing the extra walking breaks, we had a freak perfect 55° day. Got in plenty of 10-20 minute intervals and PR'd every distance.

ThyPeace · January 2017

@spiriteagle99, thanks for that. I kind of suspected that the formula was a bit suspect.

@ritzvin, that's really interesting. I noticed a problem on a -really- cold day (the wind chill was in single digits and the wind was so strong that I felt like I was running uphill), but haven't really noticed it at other times. Then again, it's generally above 30 when I run, and today was 45, so perhaps it's just not cold enough for me to really experience that. I do certainly notice the heat in the summer, though. Sometimes it's just oppressive.

Say, do people generally stick with one thread and post all their questions on that, or do people start new ones? I have been on forums that do both, and am not sure which one is most common here. Thanks!

ThyPeace, has a question about shoes next.

HRKinchen · January 2017

ThyPeace wrote: »

Say, do people generally stick with one thread and post all their questions on that, or do people start new ones? I have been on forums that do both, and am not sure which one is most common here. Thanks!

ThyPeace, has a question about shoes next.

I'd post a new thread when changing topics, even if they're tangentially related.

Easy runs

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