Easy runs

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  • OldAssDude
    OldAssDude Posts: 1,436 Member
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    I started adding run intervals to my power walks about 6 months ago because I could not get my heart rate up enough just power walking any more.

    At first I could only run for 30 seconds before I had to start walking again. Now I can run 5 miles without stopping, and I can actually keep my heart rate in zone 4 instead of it going right up to zone 5.

    I run very slow (about a 5 mph pace), and I power walk at about a 4.5 mph pace. I'm 59 so I have to watch my old joints. I run on paved roads so I got some really good running shoes (Hoka One One Clayton & Clifton 3) that take a lot of the shock off my joints. I am also trying to develop a good running style. I do a heel touch mid foot strike, and try to use a faster cadence with a shorter stride.

    Also... Joints/bones/tendons develop much slower than heart and lungs, so even though your heart and lungs are telling you to go faster, your joints may not be ready yet.

    As far as having a conversation goes... If I am doing a workout and can have a conversation, to me, that means I am not pushing it hard enough. If I am doing a recovery workout (power walk only), then having a conversation is fine because I am doing it to recover and not for improvement.

    Sounds like you are doing great so far, and it's good that you are pushing yourself to the point that you cannot have a conversation. Doing that will increase your cardio fitness level, and eventually you will be able to have a conversation at that level. Then you will be ready to step it up to the next level. And so on...

    Good job so far.
  • GaryRuns
    GaryRuns Posts: 508 Member
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    ThyPeace wrote: »

    @GaryRuns -- Heh. I am also an engineer by training, though I’m a manager now. And yeah, my weekday runs are mostly solitary. Talking then isn’t an issue though the question of “easy runs” still is. I wear a FitBit Charge HR, which is not nearly as accurate for heart rate as the chest monitors you mentioned. I usually check the trends after I run rather than worrying about the heart rate during the run. I’m sure I’m not running at a pace slow enough to be in the 60-70% of MHR range. And that’s maybe the problem. Even my fastest walk doesn’t get me up to that heart rate anymore, and my slowest run gets me to above that pace. Then again, I’m not even convinced that I know my maximum heart rate. The calculators say that, for my age (49), it should be 160 or 165, depending on the calculation. I see that rate (and confirm it with hand counts) fairly regularly when I’m doing sprints. So yeah. Lots of nerding out that I can do on this topic if I decide I need to.

    Again, I had limited success with the chest-strap/induction based HRMs. The Scosche is an optical device but it's supposed to be better than something like a fitbit. I've never used a fitbit so I can't comment.

    Pretty easy to find your maximum HR if you have an HRM. Do a nice warm-up run for about a mile, find a hill and sprint up it until your HR peaks. Done. The formulas are okay, but if you have a HRM you might as well find out exactly what your max is. What formula are you using BTW? Whatever it is isn't even close to the ones I'm familiar with. The rough one is 220-age. There are refined ones that say things like 208-0.7*age and another 207-0.7*age. Your max HR should be up in the 170s at 49. I haven't checked mine in a couple of years, which would have put me at 49 years old the last time I did, and it was 176.

    If you're interested in building an aerobic base for distance races then you do have to "learn" to run that slow if you're not used to it. But there's no doubt that you have to train in your aerobic zone if you want to build up to doing something like a full or ultra marathon. You'll find that as you build up your aerobic base your pace will get faster for a given heart rate.

    As to checking your HR while you run, get something like Runtastic. You can set it so that it will tell you, via voice synthesizer, when you transition from one HR zone to another. So if you are running and suddenly hit your anaerobic zone it'll tell you that and you can slow down to get back to your aerobic zone. Of course you need a bluetooth enabled HR monitor and phone so that the runtastic app can monitor your HR.

    I'm totally sold on HR training for distance running. Don't get me wrong, it has it's flaws. It gets hot in the Summer where I'm at and your HR goes up pretty significantly when you run in the heat, without reflecting your exertion. And there are just days where it's obvious I'm struggling with a run and my HR isn't reflecting that, but it sure beats "be able to talk while you run" as a measure of exertion!
  • ThyPeace
    ThyPeace Posts: 16 Member
    edited January 2017
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    @tiny_clanger, I have done the Galloway stuff -- it was a great way to start running, and I am still not afraid to walk when I need to. DH runs at my pace when we run together and walks when I walk, but is really competitive and feels as though he should be working harder. He'll occasionally run by himself and push far too hard. We're going to a stride clinic in a couple of weeks that I hope will help him figure out some good ways to work through his joint issues.

    @ritzvin, I notice that when it's well below freezing. Since I live in the DC area, that hasn't happened all that much this year. I agree, though. It's an issue!

    @lorrb and @pondee629, I know, right? Sort of like a male ladybug or something...

    @slowbubblecar, thanks for your experience! Running 7 miles in an hour would be fantastically fast for me; I would be happy to run a 5k at that pace. So it's good to know that improvements can continue for a while before they level off.

    @zdyb23456, heh. There's no way I could both run and control my breathing when I started this process. I gave up trying any such thing almost immediately. And I agree -- hard is hard and easy is easy makes sense. It's the conversation part that I can't do.

    @ironhajee, thanks for the encouragement! One thing that I really am trying to avoid is injury. I have experienced a pretty bad herniated disc, damaged shoulder and knee joints from swimming, and sprained a couple of ankles when I was a kid. The last thing I want to do is aggravate any of the prior damage or create any new damage. So I run very, very cautiously. And yes, I'm already seeing things improve. When I think about how the muscles all the way around my ankles hurt last year at this time, it's kind of amazing that I kept running at all.

    @bcalvanese, I hear you about old joints! And I agree about good shoes. Last summer, I went to my local running store and the manager spent an hour with me assessing my gait and then testing various shoes. I ended up with Mizuno Wave Inspire shoes with a supportive insert, and oh my, I felt so much better! (I bought them because they felt like my steel-toe Red Wing work shoes with inserts, which were the most comfortable shoes I had ever owned at that point.) The manager also told me that he couldn't quite get all of the rotation out of my gait, which he thought was due to lack of strength from being such a new runner. So I've been working on that. I've been doing my indoor workouts barefoot to get my feet more engaged in what's going on, and sometimes doing some of the toe and foot exercises I found online. Lately I have been testing the newest pair of Mizuno shoes without the insert, and it seems to be going okay. I can tell that my feet and toes are stronger, anyway. I'm sure I still have a very long way to go before I can claim to have real runner's feet, though.

    ThyPeace, really appreciate all the comments and feedback, everyone!
  • fitmom4lifemfp
    fitmom4lifemfp Posts: 1,575 Member
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    ThyPeace wrote: »
    Hi there. I've been learning to run for a little over a year now. It started when I was out walking one morning. I got so cold that I ran for about 30 yards. And then went back to walking. And then ran some more because I was still cold. (It was 15 degrees out. And windy. And my shoes were basically just cheap mesh sneakers.)

    I've slowly, painfully worked up from there to my first run-walk 5k (36:21) in August, an all running 8k (55:11) in early December, and another 5k (33:55) on New Year's Day. Obviously there's no hidden talent for running that was just waiting to be discovered. But I have remembered that I like exercise, and the nice thing about running is that it's available pretty much everywhere and with very little prep work. (I have better shoes and warmer socks now, too.)

    As I've worked on learning to run, I've encountered all kinds of little challenges. Lungs that ached (walking helped, and time built up more breathing ability), arches that ached (new shoes and inserts helped), aching behind the right knee (I learned what over-striding is, and stopped doing it), aching quads (oh, so running downhill is hard on the quads? okay...). I've hit another sticking point that I haven't figured out yet, and could use some advice.

    I've gotten to the point where I can run for three or four miles without a break. I've done longer distances some -- I think I'm up to a maybe all of 6 times in my life when I've gone more than five miles. Some of those have been continuous, some have had some walk breaks. What I can't figure out, though, is the concept of the "easy run." Everything I've read says that the easy run means you can chat with someone while you're running. One author (Older, Faster, Stronger) talked about how much she loved going running with her friends so that they could chat the whole time.

    And I just can't do it. I can say "Morning" to people I meet while running. I can manage a few words to my husband on flat ground. I can grunt "Shut. Up." to him when he tries to chat while we're going uphill. But the only time I can actually converse is when we are running down a hill. I've read many times that this means I'm going too fast. But you know, I can't actually run any slower than I already am. I tried. It's bizarrely impossible -- and at 12 minute miles most of the time, I'm pretty sure I'm not actually running all that fast.

    So -- can anyone give any suggestions on this whole "easy run" concept?

    Thanks much!
    ThyPeace, slow. Very very slow. But enjoying it nonetheless.

    Fast runners can run at a slower-than-normal pace, and talk. I have never been able to carry on a conversation while running. But I have a friend that can maintain an 8 min mile for 26 miles, and do MUCH faster for a short run. She loves to run and chat - I can't even think about running with her, even if she slowed down to my pace, there's no way I could talk while running!!
  • ThyPeace
    ThyPeace Posts: 16 Member
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    I did some running this morning with DH. We only went 1.72 miles and ran half, so a very short run. I practiced the in-4-out-4 breathing that @BrianSharpe mentioned. I had to slow down a lot at first to be able to maintain that breathing pace, but found toward the end of the run that I could breathe like that and run at a faster pace. It uses very different muscles to run as slowly as that first part was. I am pretty sure that I could walk that fast with less effort, actually. Or close to it.

    @GaryRuns, thanks for the clarification on the chest monitors. I'll stick with the FitBit for now. The formulas I had seen were 210-age (perhaps a misprint from the 220-age that you quoted, and which seems much more common the first page of Google) and 210-0.9*age. So now I need to go look and see if there is much science behind those. And good point on the self-test. I've got some fine hills for torturing myself, so next time I do a hill workout, I'll stop and check my heart rate at the can't-go-further point. Runtastic sounds like a good app, though I'm working with FitBit and iPod. I'll have to see if that's high enough tech for it to work.

    @fitmom4lifemfp, you made me laugh. Someone who can maintain an 8 minute mile for 26 miles is running an incredible marathon time! Makes me grin, actually. People are amazing.

    Which goes back to @GaryRuns' comment about whether my goal is to run a marathon or an ultra or not. My stated goal is to run a 5k when I am 100 years old. To my mind, that means building an injury-free, healthy body that is highly accustomed to running, and that does it so regularly that even advanced age won't prevent the distance. I'm not looking to set records at that age. Just to DO it. My genetics will likely get me to my 80s or early 90s, so the rest is going to have to be incredibly clean living and an active lifestyle. Plus, probably, the assistance of younger people whose friendships I have yet to make, a community of runners who keep me going, and various other things. Whether it means ever running a marathon or further, I am not yet certain. For the moment, I don't need to worry about whether the goals diverge because really? I'm a long way from both of them.

    ThyPeace, one day, one mile, one step at a time.
  • ThyPeace
    ThyPeace Posts: 16 Member
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    Ran 45 minutes today, trying to run easy. Later I'll take a more careful look at my heart rate numbers, but my average heart rate was 146. Peak was 165 on a pretty steep hill. Other than that it was steady except where I had to stop to wait for a light. Dropped below 120 then. Felt like a pretty good run and I was able to go on with the day without a rest -- which to me is important because I run at times when a lot of rest afterwards isn't all that doable. I was happy to sit in one spot for an hour this afternoon, though.

    ThyPeace, had the day off.
  • spiriteagle99
    spiriteagle99 Posts: 3,683 Member
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    You really can't take the 220-age formula seriously. It is a generalization, but not true for many of us. At age 59, I saw my HR hit 182 on a regular run when I was going up a not all that steep hill. It goes up into the 160s when I'm running at my easy pace. If you really want to know, the best way is to test it when you are running an all out 5k race. Alternately, do 1/4 mile sprints up a hill. On the 3rd or 4th repetition, you'll get closer to your maximum.
  • ritzvin
    ritzvin Posts: 2,860 Member
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    After starting to have doubts that it could be such a huge effect, I can definitely say today that the cold does indeed really F* my aerobic capacity. After a month of being out of breath on short 2 minute running intervals and needing the extra walking breaks, we had a freak perfect 55° day. Got in plenty of 10-20 minute intervals and PR'd every distance.
  • ThyPeace
    ThyPeace Posts: 16 Member
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    @spiriteagle99, thanks for that. I kind of suspected that the formula was a bit suspect.

    @ritzvin, that's really interesting. I noticed a problem on a -really- cold day (the wind chill was in single digits and the wind was so strong that I felt like I was running uphill), but haven't really noticed it at other times. Then again, it's generally above 30 when I run, and today was 45, so perhaps it's just not cold enough for me to really experience that. I do certainly notice the heat in the summer, though. Sometimes it's just oppressive.

    Say, do people generally stick with one thread and post all their questions on that, or do people start new ones? I have been on forums that do both, and am not sure which one is most common here. Thanks!

    ThyPeace, has a question about shoes next.
  • HRKinchen
    HRKinchen Posts: 202 Member
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    ThyPeace wrote: »
    Say, do people generally stick with one thread and post all their questions on that, or do people start new ones? I have been on forums that do both, and am not sure which one is most common here. Thanks!

    ThyPeace, has a question about shoes next.

    I'd post a new thread when changing topics, even if they're tangentially related.
  • ThyPeace
    ThyPeace Posts: 16 Member
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    Thanks, @HRKinchen!

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