Vicious Cycle

I guess i'm a bit jaded when i hear the word pms. It makes me think of my ex sister in-law Every month for 2 weeks she would moan about pms, she would be parked on the couch with her chips and chocolate and was a total B*tch.

Except she was like this every other day of the month too! But for 2 weeks she had an "excuse" for being like that..

I completely understand.. 1st of all the pains are sometimes unbearable, codeine sometimes doesn't even take the edge off.. the week leading up to it, the hunger takes over. I used to give in and could easily do a few chocolate bars (I have an extremely sweet tooth) however I then discovered dark chocolate (above 75%) I now have 2 cubes every night the week before and it seems to help with cravings, plus I swear it's easing the water retention and headaches.. it may be all in my head but it seems to help..

May I suggest you talk to your doctor about a progesterone replacement. I work in a pharmacy where the pharmacist compounds hormones specially for people with hormone problems it really helped with my endometriosis which it sounds like you may have.

Heartisalonelyhunter wrote: »

leejoyce31 wrote: »

Francl27 wrote: »

Oh you're so not alone. You described me completely. It's awful and unfortunately a lot of people really don't get it... And the last few months my cycles have one lasted 3 weeks, so it's pretty much non stop hell.

First, medicate. I pretty much have to alternate Advil and Tylenol (or store brands, but it has to be soft gels or it takes too long to work) every 2-3 hours for days. I start as soon as I get up. Once the pain is gone, it's much easier to get moving.

Exercise more. Seriously. My last bad PMS day was bad, but I try to stay active and end up burning off a big chunk of the surplus (I laugh at the 'eat at maintenance' posts. Maintenance doesn't even get close to cutting it for me). I've increased my activity and walk whenever I have 30 minutes to kill (instead of just sitting down and watching TV or browsing the web or something - exceptions being in the morning while I drink my coffee and at night when the kids are in bed).

Find what foods REALLY satisfy you. That horrible hunger feeling... what can you eat in reasonable quantities to make it go away? For me, I've found that just a plain English muffin will work much better than ice cream or cookies (I might crave them but they really don't satisfy me and I can't stop eating them if I start at that time). The key is to eat as little as possible of the thing that will satisfy you, and avoid the stuff that won't, no matter how tempting.

The whole mental thing... I know it's not it for me because sometimes I skip a period and it doesn't happen to me at all. I always kinda feel insulted when people suggest it though! And yeah, some cycles it doesn't happen more than maybe a day and I'm so grateful.

And my best advice if you don't want to gain weight from that - eat less on the easier days. It sucks, but that's pretty much how I've managed not to gain back the weight in 2.5 years (I've gained back a couple pounds when Holidays and special events fell on usually 'normal' days and I wasn't able to keep a deficit that 'easy' week, but that's pretty much it and my clothes still fit the same).

Yeah, the suggestion is a put off to some degree. I guess sometimes it's hard for people to believe that something can be real for others, if they don't experience it themselves.

It is real for sure!!

It's definitely real. No one is saying you're not experiencing what you say you're experiencing.But I see this all the time at my work. Women go crazy when you suggest that your brain can affect what you feel physically. I used to have terrible period pains until I saw an endocrinologist and realized my hormones were normal and I was very depressed. And once I went on anti depressants the symptoms improved dramatically. It still hurts but not the way it used to.
People with amputated limbs still feel pain in them. The mind is an amazing thing and to discount the idea that some of this could be mental rather than physical is doing yourself a disservice .

Heartisalonelyhunter wrote: »

leejoyce31 wrote: »

Francl27 wrote: »

Oh you're so not alone. You described me completely. It's awful and unfortunately a lot of people really don't get it... And the last few months my cycles have one lasted 3 weeks, so it's pretty much non stop hell.

First, medicate. I pretty much have to alternate Advil and Tylenol (or store brands, but it has to be soft gels or it takes too long to work) every 2-3 hours for days. I start as soon as I get up. Once the pain is gone, it's much easier to get moving.

Exercise more. Seriously. My last bad PMS day was bad, but I try to stay active and end up burning off a big chunk of the surplus (I laugh at the 'eat at maintenance' posts. Maintenance doesn't even get close to cutting it for me). I've increased my activity and walk whenever I have 30 minutes to kill (instead of just sitting down and watching TV or browsing the web or something - exceptions being in the morning while I drink my coffee and at night when the kids are in bed).

Find what foods REALLY satisfy you. That horrible hunger feeling... what can you eat in reasonable quantities to make it go away? For me, I've found that just a plain English muffin will work much better than ice cream or cookies (I might crave them but they really don't satisfy me and I can't stop eating them if I start at that time). The key is to eat as little as possible of the thing that will satisfy you, and avoid the stuff that won't, no matter how tempting.

The whole mental thing... I know it's not it for me because sometimes I skip a period and it doesn't happen to me at all. I always kinda feel insulted when people suggest it though! And yeah, some cycles it doesn't happen more than maybe a day and I'm so grateful.

And my best advice if you don't want to gain weight from that - eat less on the easier days. It sucks, but that's pretty much how I've managed not to gain back the weight in 2.5 years (I've gained back a couple pounds when Holidays and special events fell on usually 'normal' days and I wasn't able to keep a deficit that 'easy' week, but that's pretty much it and my clothes still fit the same).

Yeah, the suggestion is a put off to some degree. I guess sometimes it's hard for people to believe that something can be real for others, if they don't experience it themselves.

It is real for sure!!

It's definitely real. No one is saying you're not experiencing what you say you're experiencing.But I see this all the time at my work. Women go crazy when you suggest that your brain can affect what you feel physically. I used to have terrible period pains until I saw an endocrinologist and realized my hormones were normal and I was very depressed. And once I went on anti depressants the symptoms improved dramatically. It still hurts but not the way it used to.
People with amputated limbs still feel pain in them. The mind is an amazing thing and to discount the idea that some of this could be mental rather than physical is doing yourself a disservice .

No disservice to me. I accept it as a part of my life and don't over analyze. It's only a few days out of a month. If I overeat I have developed mechanisms to counter it.

I'm just not one to discount what people feel by chalking it up to it's just mental. That's my opinion. We just disagree. I won't say you are doing yourself a disservice just because our opinions differ.

leejoyce31 wrote: »

Heartisalonelyhunter wrote: »

leejoyce31 wrote: »

Francl27 wrote: »

Oh you're so not alone. You described me completely. It's awful and unfortunately a lot of people really don't get it... And the last few months my cycles have one lasted 3 weeks, so it's pretty much non stop hell.

First, medicate. I pretty much have to alternate Advil and Tylenol (or store brands, but it has to be soft gels or it takes too long to work) every 2-3 hours for days. I start as soon as I get up. Once the pain is gone, it's much easier to get moving.

Exercise more. Seriously. My last bad PMS day was bad, but I try to stay active and end up burning off a big chunk of the surplus (I laugh at the 'eat at maintenance' posts. Maintenance doesn't even get close to cutting it for me). I've increased my activity and walk whenever I have 30 minutes to kill (instead of just sitting down and watching TV or browsing the web or something - exceptions being in the morning while I drink my coffee and at night when the kids are in bed).

Find what foods REALLY satisfy you. That horrible hunger feeling... what can you eat in reasonable quantities to make it go away? For me, I've found that just a plain English muffin will work much better than ice cream or cookies (I might crave them but they really don't satisfy me and I can't stop eating them if I start at that time). The key is to eat as little as possible of the thing that will satisfy you, and avoid the stuff that won't, no matter how tempting.

The whole mental thing... I know it's not it for me because sometimes I skip a period and it doesn't happen to me at all. I always kinda feel insulted when people suggest it though! And yeah, some cycles it doesn't happen more than maybe a day and I'm so grateful.

And my best advice if you don't want to gain weight from that - eat less on the easier days. It sucks, but that's pretty much how I've managed not to gain back the weight in 2.5 years (I've gained back a couple pounds when Holidays and special events fell on usually 'normal' days and I wasn't able to keep a deficit that 'easy' week, but that's pretty much it and my clothes still fit the same).

Yeah, the suggestion is a put off to some degree. I guess sometimes it's hard for people to believe that something can be real for others, if they don't experience it themselves.

It is real for sure!!

It's definitely real. No one is saying you're not experiencing what you say you're experiencing.But I see this all the time at my work. Women go crazy when you suggest that your brain can affect what you feel physically. I used to have terrible period pains until I saw an endocrinologist and realized my hormones were normal and I was very depressed. And once I went on anti depressants the symptoms improved dramatically. It still hurts but not the way it used to.
People with amputated limbs still feel pain in them. The mind is an amazing thing and to discount the idea that some of this could be mental rather than physical is doing yourself a disservice .

Heartisalonelyhunter wrote: »

leejoyce31 wrote: »

Francl27 wrote: »

Oh you're so not alone. You described me completely. It's awful and unfortunately a lot of people really don't get it... And the last few months my cycles have one lasted 3 weeks, so it's pretty much non stop hell.

First, medicate. I pretty much have to alternate Advil and Tylenol (or store brands, but it has to be soft gels or it takes too long to work) every 2-3 hours for days. I start as soon as I get up. Once the pain is gone, it's much easier to get moving.

Exercise more. Seriously. My last bad PMS day was bad, but I try to stay active and end up burning off a big chunk of the surplus (I laugh at the 'eat at maintenance' posts. Maintenance doesn't even get close to cutting it for me). I've increased my activity and walk whenever I have 30 minutes to kill (instead of just sitting down and watching TV or browsing the web or something - exceptions being in the morning while I drink my coffee and at night when the kids are in bed).

Find what foods REALLY satisfy you. That horrible hunger feeling... what can you eat in reasonable quantities to make it go away? For me, I've found that just a plain English muffin will work much better than ice cream or cookies (I might crave them but they really don't satisfy me and I can't stop eating them if I start at that time). The key is to eat as little as possible of the thing that will satisfy you, and avoid the stuff that won't, no matter how tempting.

The whole mental thing... I know it's not it for me because sometimes I skip a period and it doesn't happen to me at all. I always kinda feel insulted when people suggest it though! And yeah, some cycles it doesn't happen more than maybe a day and I'm so grateful.

And my best advice if you don't want to gain weight from that - eat less on the easier days. It sucks, but that's pretty much how I've managed not to gain back the weight in 2.5 years (I've gained back a couple pounds when Holidays and special events fell on usually 'normal' days and I wasn't able to keep a deficit that 'easy' week, but that's pretty much it and my clothes still fit the same).

Yeah, the suggestion is a put off to some degree. I guess sometimes it's hard for people to believe that something can be real for others, if they don't experience it themselves.

It is real for sure!!

It's definitely real. No one is saying you're not experiencing what you say you're experiencing.But I see this all the time at my work. Women go crazy when you suggest that your brain can affect what you feel physically. I used to have terrible period pains until I saw an endocrinologist and realized my hormones were normal and I was very depressed. And once I went on anti depressants the symptoms improved dramatically. It still hurts but not the way it used to.
People with amputated limbs still feel pain in them. The mind is an amazing thing and to discount the idea that some of this could be mental rather than physical is doing yourself a disservice .

No disservice to me. I accept it as a part of my life and don't over analyze. It's only a few days out of a month. If I overeat I have developed mechanisms to counter it.

I'm just not one to discount what people feel by chalking it up to it's just mental. That's my opinion. We just disagree. I won't say you are doing yourself a disservice just because our opinions differ.

Did you actually read what I said? I never said 'it's just mental'. But you carry on disagreeing with imaginary arguments. Obviously whatever you're doing is working out well for you.

HG210 wrote: »

What to do to fight this vicious appetite 2 weeks out of the month? I am getting my cycle soon and I know because I want to take a bite of my desk right now. I don't track it at all but I know from the incredible overwhelming sensation of hunger I'm having. I feel out of control when this happens. I only have one normal week a month. One week of hunger followed by another week of hunger, headaches and cramps. Then the most horrible heavy period and it's over. The pain is horrible the hunger is horrific it is all a nightmare. Does anyone have any tips or trips to get through this a little better?

Definitely NOT alone! This was me to a T until about 3-4 months ago, except add in insomnia and severe depression (So yeah.. there's hope. Cling to it for dear life! LOL)

Francl27 advice is spot on. My only suggestion is instead of trying to tackle it all in one fell swoop, break the tips down into single habits to build and work on each one, one at a time. I's also say it may help to stop worrying about weight loss, but instead think of it as steps towards healthier living. It's been over a year that I started and I just now started losing weight, but my overall health and happiness is through the roof, and my periods are a sharply milder version of what they used to be.

For me... I choose to start by focusing on workouts simply because I actually like working out and knew it would help the insomnia. It took me close to 6 months of playing around with workout times, workout options and beating my family into submission before I really found a routine that worked for me and allowed me to consistently get 3-4 solid workouts a week. I had a lot of starts and stops along the way, but it didn't take long for me to notice that the better I stuck with my workout routine, the better I slept and the better I felt overall. It helped increase the motivation to keep at it until I finally cracked my code. My weight pretty much stayed pat (+/- 5lbs), but I found I didn't even care cause I felt soo much better.

Next I focused on food choices. Not how much I ate, but rather the things I was choosing to eat and when. I also focused on things that helped to control hunger. Everything I read lead me to focus on 1) eating a good breakfast, 2) getting a LOT more fiber in my diet and 3) upping my protein intake. Again.. took about another 5months or so of trial and error to find what works, but I now have about 3 different breakfast options that range from 350 cals to 450 cals, 25+ grams of protien and 7+grams of fiber. I found this change alone really took a huge bite off of my daily hunger issues I was dealing with. I also created a high fiber salad concoction that I eat with my lunch everyday. Last but not least was tackling my insatiable snacking appetite. Rather then try and quash it (which failed spectacularly in the past), I chose to harness it by finding and stocking up on healthy, high protein/high fiber snacks. It still took time to retrain my brain to reach for the healthy snacks over the quick easy ones, but over time, I found I'd get pissed throwing out the healthy options when I choose the "other" stuff, so I eventually converted (mostly). About 4 months ago (3 months into the overhaul), I noticed that my period came and went with very little issue. Body was only mildly achy the week before and some mild cramping the day before I started. I also started losing a little weight without even tracking calories.

Now I've been focusing on water intake for the last 2.5 months. I bought a 1L bottle that I keep next to me almost everywhere now. The first month I focused on getting one bottle a day (About 33oz, or 4 glasses). Last month, I focused on upping it to two bottles. That change cut out enough calories for me to start actually operating at a deficit, so I've been actively tracking for weightloss since Jan. I've been losing about a 1lb a week pretty steadily since then. This month, I'm working on getting 3 bottles a day which gets me to a little over 100 ounces a day. I'm due to start my period any day now, no pains, no cramps. Just a mild ache in my knees and hips that kicked up a couple days ago, but nothing to stop me from working out. I did have two days of ravenous hunger, I fought it for a day, then chose to indulge yesterday at dinner time. Today, the hunger is gone and I'm back on track. Also, because I had a great breakfast and a healthy lunch first, my indulgence yesterday only put me about 200 cals over my limit.

kshama2001 wrote: »

HG210 wrote: »

What to do to fight this vicious appetite 2 weeks out of the month? I am getting my cycle soon and I know because I want to take a bite of my desk right now. I don't track it at all but I know from the incredible overwhelming sensation of hunger I'm having. I feel out of control when this happens. I only have one normal week a month. One week of hunger followed by another week of hunger, headaches and cramps. Then the most horrible heavy period and it's over. The pain is horrible the hunger is horrific it is all a nightmare. Does anyone have any tips or trips to get through this a little better? Surgery is not an option. Something has to work besides Strawberry Ice Cream. I don't even want to log in this damn coca cola and doritos I'm eating. My husband wants to walk tonight and I want to hang on the couch. SMH Also did I say that it takes away all my motivation to work out.

I used to be all about pints of Ben & Jerry's premenstrually but this just made things worse. Now, while I might add in a moderate treat or two, I concentrate on foods that satiate me.

I also ramp up the exercise, and this helps as well. I often have to force myself to go, and am always glad I did.

How much weight to you want to lose total and what's your weekly weight loss goal? Maybe dial it back a bit.

When my appetite spikes premenstrually I eat at maintenance for a few days. And I log Donating Blood to give myself more calories as I lose well over a pint.

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10461463/blood-donation/p1

It's not the same though. Your body won't be spending extra calories replacing the lost blood like it does with donations.

Francl27 wrote: »

kshama2001 wrote: »

HG210 wrote: »

What to do to fight this vicious appetite 2 weeks out of the month? I am getting my cycle soon and I know because I want to take a bite of my desk right now. I don't track it at all but I know from the incredible overwhelming sensation of hunger I'm having. I feel out of control when this happens. I only have one normal week a month. One week of hunger followed by another week of hunger, headaches and cramps. Then the most horrible heavy period and it's over. The pain is horrible the hunger is horrific it is all a nightmare. Does anyone have any tips or trips to get through this a little better? Surgery is not an option. Something has to work besides Strawberry Ice Cream. I don't even want to log in this damn coca cola and doritos I'm eating. My husband wants to walk tonight and I want to hang on the couch. SMH Also did I say that it takes away all my motivation to work out.

I used to be all about pints of Ben & Jerry's premenstrually but this just made things worse. Now, while I might add in a moderate treat or two, I concentrate on foods that satiate me.

I also ramp up the exercise, and this helps as well. I often have to force myself to go, and am always glad I did.

How much weight to you want to lose total and what's your weekly weight loss goal? Maybe dial it back a bit.

When my appetite spikes premenstrually I eat at maintenance for a few days. And I log Donating Blood to give myself more calories as I lose well over a pint.

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10461463/blood-donation/p1

It's not the same though. Your body won't be spending extra calories replacing the lost blood like it does with donations.

According to my scale, something similar is happening.

OP, did you by chance start experiencing these symptoms after gaining weight?

I have always experienced increased appetite, fatigue, and cramps with my cycle, but I've noticed over the years the more out of shape I am the worse it seems. I'm not sure what the correlation is, but now that I'm losing weight it seems to be becoming more manageable again.

My tips: hot drinks/broths seem to help with the cramps. I don't really like tea, but I've found hot chocolate or even hot water with lemon will help. I also find soup helps probably because I drink/eat my soup really hot. I take some form of pain medication (either ibuprofen or midol) before the onset of pain and that seems to help. I eat more than usual but I try to eat foods that are less calorie dense so I can eat larger volumes of food and I find that helps. I will allow myself some junk I just try not to go overboard.

I don't take hormonal BC - initially because I didn't want to, then as I got older I was told I shouldn't anyway because I suffer from migraines. And I always get menstrual migraines, which vary in intensity, just like my PMS/cycle symptoms. Some things that I have found help some with various symptoms:

- Not using disposable products. Mostly, I use a menstrual cup, but I also have cloth pads.
- Trying to be consistent with taking magnesium at least twice a day (I take Natural Calm). I try to be consistent with this to help with both my migraines and menstrual cramps.
- Getting regular exercise.
- Allowing myself something I'm really craving and logging it. Luckily, I don't usually even eat to maintenance on those days, so I don't know I can really help with advice there since you seem to have longer periods of hunger. But, just in case it gives you any ideas - some days during or before my cycle my appetite is often suppressed and a couple others I'm ravenous and it will even out. So if it's one of those hollow days, I just let myself eat what I really, really want. Sometimes I just really, really want that chocolate cake and that's my dinner.
- Sipping either raspberry leaf tea or Women's Cycle tea (Yogi brand with raspberry leaves and some other stuff). I have no idea why raspberry leaf tea helps with cramps, but for me it does. However, I have to continuously sip it, and that's not always an option.

I don't know if any of that will help, but you have my sympathies!

You are definitely not alone and I'm glad you asked for advice instead of suffering in silence. I also had debilitating periods and awful pms until using the mirena iud. When I ended up having that removed I bled so profusely I immediately had an endometrial ablation. Highly highly recommend it, it has been life changing. I still get periods but they are so light usually a panty liner is enough to take care of it. The pms has gotten better also - exercise and diet have helped a lot with that. I really hope you find what works for you.

Hi OP. I'll share what's worked for me and one of my girls. Maybe something will be a help to you.

I actually disagree with using BC. My experience has been that that can actually make things worse in a lot of ways. I don't understand why, but in some women, it seems to do that. A lot of times, painful cycles are caused by progesterone that is too low. I've only seen that helped by bio-identical progesterone creams (as opposed to progesterone pills). Again, I don't understand why the pills seem to make someone worse. The only thing I can figure is the creams can be compounded to exactly how much progesterone you need vs. the pills that only come in certain strengths and can't be tweaked.

In previous years, taking 1000mg of calcium/magnesium a day (a 1:1 ratio, NOT a 2:1 ratio) helped hugely with cravings, PMS, and cramps. Especially cramps! However, it is an accumulative affect. It took about 3-4 months of taking it every single day before it started kicking in. I didn't realize what had started helping until I stopped taking it at the 6 month mark (because I thought it wasn't working) and my cramps, PMS, etc. returned. I quickly went back on it and got relief again!

Acupuncture and pressure points can be helpful for pain relief as well. Hot water bottles on the belly if warmth feels good to you. Exercise (if you can force yourself even if you don't feel like it).

With the amount of pain you're having, do you have either ovarian cysts or endometriosis? Horrendous pain is often associated with those two things. It sounds crazy, but mixing 1tbls of black strap molasses with 1tbls ACV (warm it like a tea) and drinking it daily can actually cause the cysts to go away and thereby relieving much of the pain. I have seen this work with two people and it worked very very well so long as they stuck with it. You would start taking it on the first day you have pain and stop at the end of your cycle. Since it's 3 weeks that you are miserable, it might just be easier to do it daily and make it a routine.

The first thing requires either a functional medicine doctor or MD that understands bio-identical hormones and that most women (especially in the 40's and later) will feel and do better if their progesterone (not estrogen!) is in the upper 2/3 of the normal range for progesterone. The cream is easy to use and can literally be micro-adjusted daily if needed (it's only used from day 14 of the cycle until the cycle starts).

The other 3 things are very easy to try. My general philosophy is, if it won't hurt, and it can possibly help, then it's worth a shot. So you might consider trying one or all of these things to see if they help the actual pain/cycle issues.

I can attest to using cloth pads or even a cup to lessen bleeding. Switching to cloth 10+ years ago literally cut my bleeding in half. For that one, there is a health forum where hundreds of women started using them and had the same experience with either of those. So that might be a possibility worth trying. I started my girls out on cloth so they don't like disposables now. Both have fairly light cycles compared to how I was at their age (although one has the pain/PMS issues).

As for food/losing weight - I would encourage you to log EVERYTHING even if you have completely over eaten. I find when I log everything, no matter what, that sometimes it stops me the next time b/c seeing it in black and white does something to the brain. So be honest, just log it, and go on. Eventually, this can become a helpful tool in controlling the cravings (which I agree, can be awful!). Also, just plan on eating at maintenance on our worst days. At least you won't gain and you can eat in a deficit on days you can manage it.

There's been a lot of good suggestions from others already. Hopefully these and some of them will help you!

My go to suggestion to everyone is take a magnesium supplement at night before you go to bed. I take Slow Mag 400 mg. from Walgreens. it relaxes your muscles and helps you sleep and is a cure for restless leg syndrome.

My thought is it might, along with your increased water.. relax some of your tense muscles and give you relief. I couldn't hurt to try it.