CICO vs. "clean eating"
misschellechelle
Posts: 52 Member
Hi all,
Quick question which I know has been debated before -
Is it more important to focus on CICO or "clean eating" such as cutting out all processed food, grains, sugar etc.
I want something sustainable which is why I see CICO as a long term solution, but it seems a lot of the advice I read states the multiple health benefits, including weight loss, from a clean eating, paleo, sugar free diet....
If you could share your thoughts and experiences that would be great
I am looking to loss around 10 pounds.
Quick question which I know has been debated before -
Is it more important to focus on CICO or "clean eating" such as cutting out all processed food, grains, sugar etc.
I want something sustainable which is why I see CICO as a long term solution, but it seems a lot of the advice I read states the multiple health benefits, including weight loss, from a clean eating, paleo, sugar free diet....
If you could share your thoughts and experiences that would be great
I am looking to loss around 10 pounds.
0
Replies
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Long term? Eat foods you like, just the right amount.20
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CICO is just short hand for calories in vs calories out. As long as you consume fewer calories than you expend you will lose weight. Whether you choose to eat "clean" or paleo or high carb or whatever you feel like eating you will lose weight if you eat fewer calories than you expend. Nice to have so many choices, isn't it 11
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Even eating "clean" whatever that means since different people define it differently, often in radical ways, a person can eat more calories than their body burns and put on weight. I have a friend here who was Vegan and put on her weight as a Vegan. That is about as "clean" whatever that means, as it can get, yet eat too many calories and your body will store them as fat.
With only 10 pounds to go, a goal of more than half a pound a week is likely too aggressive, that also means you need to be spot on with your logging of calories since it is only a 250 calorie a day deficit with could be eaten into and surpassed simply with inaccurate logging. That would mean 1) Weighing all solid items you eat with a digital kitchen scale including those that are grated and ground. 2) Measuring all liquids with measuring cups and spoons. 3) Making sure the database entries you are using here are accurate. 4) Being consistent. Log every day and don't have so called "cheat" days.
In terms of what makes up what you eat, choose mainly nutritionally rich foods, but don't avoid the less nutritious stuff, just eat less of it and make it a treat.4 -
You're confusing CICO with calorie counting. All weight loss comes down to CICO - your calories in must be less than your calories out in order to lose weight. 'Clean eating' by no means guarantees that. It may help you create the necessary deficit for weight loss, and if it's a way of eating that you enjoy and find sustainable then go ahead. But there is nothing magical about it and you will not lose weight faster than if you eat the same number of calories in 'non clean' (whatever that means) foods.
As above - make sure most of your foods are nutritionally dense and fit in treats if you want to within your calorie limit 8 -
Use my life as an example. I've been a "clean eater" for almost 10 years. In that time, the majority of my diet has been made up of whole foods (though I still eat fast food a handful of times per year), I cut out soda completely, and since I've never been a huge dessert person, I rarely eat a candy, cookies, cake, or other sweets. And in that time, I gained almost 20 lbs.
The problem many people have when they start trying to lose weight is that they conflate eating clean with losing weight. Clean eating is, in my opinion, a great way to ensure you're eating a nutritionally balanced diet. And clean eating is, in and of itself, a very sustainable, healthy, and enjoyable way to eat over the long term (again, in my opinion). But if you over eat on a clean foods diet (as I did over the past several years), you'll gain weight.
When it comes to weight loss, it's really all about CICO.12 -
Really, it's both. If you eat more calories of "clean" food, you will gain weight. (Though, it is harder to overeat on low calorie density foods, like fruit and veg). However, when it comes to overall health, energy levels, ease of digestion, recovery time, etc. i have found there is benefit to including as many fruits and veggies in your diet as possible, while limiting processed food.
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They aren't comparable.
Two different things.
One is a written simplification of how human beings lose and gain weight, the other is an arbitrary way of eating.
CICO is at play 24 hours a day 365 days a year now matter how what where and when you eat.10 -
I do both. I often end up 'eating clean' as a byproduct of long-term veganism. I also got up to 224lbs as a vegan - so that should be enough to say that clean doesn't mean 'automatic deficit'
. Practising CICO has gotten me back to 162lbs so far - take from that what you will.
In my opinion (keyword: opinion), a calorie is a calorie - doesn't particularly matter where it comes from. You could eat your whole day's worth of food in fried chicken, assuming you're able to log it accurately, and still lose weight.
There are plenty of conflicting conversations around about sugar out there, but unless you're facing health complications related to that, I wouldn't fret about it. I phased out adding sugar to stuff I consume - namely my coffee - purely because I didn't find the calories to be of particular use when I could eat like... half a head of broccoli instead, and it would feel much more useful. It's not, in reality, any more useful, but it feels more useful to me.
Generally speaking, there's no harm in trying things out. If you want to try a particular diet or style of eating - and you're sure it's safe - then go ahead. It might help you to stay with CICO. All you really need to do is be in a deficit, though - and as others have said, since you're looking to lose 10lbs, don't go too hard on the deficit.5 -
CI is Calories In
CO is Calories Out
If you want to gain weight, it's CI>CO.
If you want to lose weight, it's CI<CO.
If you want to maintain weight, it's CI=CO.
That's how it works.
But how you want to accomplish that is up to you.
Personally, I decided to eat only the foods I like. As it happens, I probably lean a bit toward a Mediterranean diet, a vegetarian diet, and probably a bit clean, whatever that is ... and only because I like that kind of food. 3 -
Weight management is about calories. CICO
You lose weight with a calorie deficit created through eating fewer calories or burning more calories or both.
If you want to eat less processed foods it will do nothing for weight loss if you don't get the calories right. Same as if you eat fast food every day.
A healthy diet is not a specific list of food but everything you consume working together to meet your body's needs. You need to look at nutrients of foods you eat and how they fit your whole day. There are a lot of ways to "eat healthy".
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/recreationandwellnesscenter/wellness/nutrition_corner/nutrition-101/
You should start with just logging what you normally eat and sticking to your calorie goal. You want to eat in a way you can sustain. You can alter your diet in small steps like getting more protein or having more vegetables on your plate.
If you decide you personally prefer a lower carb diet, or vegetarian or whole foods that is all fine but weight loss will always be about having a calorie deficit.1 -
They aren't comparable.
Two different things.
One is a written simplification of how human beings lose and gain weight, the other is an arbitrary way of eating.
CICO is at play 24 hours a day 365 days a year now matter how what where and when you eat.
Was going to post something very similar but @cityruss nailed it.1 -
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10503952/bro-do-you-even-eat-clean#latest
And CICO always matters. It's energy balance it always needs to be addressed.3 -
For weight loss you need to be at the correct calorie deficit for your weight goals. Doesn't matter what types of foods you're eating though, to make up your calories.
I lost around 50lbs while eating fast food several times a week, all sorts of processed 'diet' foods, diet soda several times a day etc. Not only did I lose the weight, but I also improved all my health markers and blood work numbers -including normalizing a prediabetic glucose number. The only thing I focused on was hitting my calorie target.
Now I'm several years into maintenance and I continue to eat all the foods I like, with a continued focus on my calorie intake. My bmi is around 21, total cholesterol 143, glucose number in the 80s and 90s, waist circumference 25 etc etc. I still eat fast food every week and drink diet soda every day I also eat several servings of veggies every day, whole grains etc. I enjoy what I eat and focus on variety and balance and #1-calorie intake. 3 -
Everyone has to do what works for them. I personally don't adhere much to CICO. I think the body is more complicated than given credit in some aspects, and therefore it's almost impossible to accurately calculate CICO. In other ways, the body is very simple. I eat clean and I eat when I'm hungry. It works out well for me. For others, maybe not so much.1
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Everyone has to do what works for them. I personally don't adhere much to CICO. I think the body is more complicated than given credit in some aspects, and therefore it's almost impossible to accurately calculate CICO. In other ways, the body is very simple. I eat clean and I eat when I'm hungry. It works out well for me. For others, maybe not so much.
I've had no problem calculating my needed calorie intake, both in the weight loss phase and now in maintenance. And I'm not even that good at math
And for many people who've struggled with being overweight it's very difficult to know what true hunger is vs wanting to eat for all sorts of different reasons, (boredom, stress, EDs like binge eating etc).
But I agree that we all need to figure out what works for us individually and then go with that 1 -
They aren't mutually exclusive. CICO is the fundamental energy balance that describes weight management. To lose weight, you need to be in a calorie deficit, i.e. CI<CO. You can achieve that calorie deficit eating any way you like. Further, clean eating is an arbitrary term that means something different to pretty much everyone you ask.
Many of the most successful people here eat a balanced, nutrient dense diet; leaving room for treats as they can fit them in. You can eat this way without calling it "clean" and without cutting out foods that you enjoy, whether that be pizza or fast food, donuts or Doritos.3 -
It all comes down to personal preference.
For me , I can't last 5 days eating clean , let alone living my whole life eating clean.
But I find CICO pretty easy and sustainable. I have been doing CICO for the last 3 years with no problem. However , i understand why some people choose clean eating , and I wish I had the will to do so as well because there are so many benefits to eating clean and I am quite sure that it is much healthier physically to eat clean within your calories than to eat whatever you feel like just as long as you stay under your calories ( Like I do.) Mentally , I believe its much different. I get really moody after a while of clean eating and feel much happier when I eat whatever I feel like.0 -
CICO is NOT a diet. It's an energy balance equation. All diets are CICO. And decades of energy balance studies demonstrate the need for that to be addressed. Yes, things can influence a component of the equation, but it doesn't disprove CICO.5
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misschellechelle wrote: »Hi all,
Quick question which I know has been debated before -
Is it more important to focus on CICO or "clean eating" such as cutting out all processed food, grains, sugar etc.
I want something sustainable which is why I see CICO as a long term solution, but it seems a lot of the advice I read states the multiple health benefits, including weight loss, from a clean eating, paleo, sugar free diet....
If you could share your thoughts and experiences that would be great
I am looking to loss around 10 pounds.
Ask this guy: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10348650/cico-still-skeptical-come-inside-for-a-meticulous-log-that-proves-it/p15 -
I was a very, very clean eating whole foods vegetarian at my highest weight wondering what the problem was.
The problem was too much clean food.
Following the principles of CICO was the answer.
CICO isn't calorie counting itself or any way of eating, it's just a statement of energy balance. It's not meant to be exact, but getting close enough is good enough for most of us. I've lost close to 95 pounds eating sometimes clean, sometimes not so clean following the principle of eating less than I burn.
I maximize my intake of foods that make me feel full and minimize my intake of foods that don't, while emphasizing my intake of muscle sparing protein. It's worked wonderfully. Oh, and I haven't felt deprived because I haven't deprived myself. I have celiac disease. There's already too much stuff I can't have. I feel no need to push things off the table on purpose when there's already so many foods eliminated from my diet by necessity.3 -
My "long term solution", is predominantly eating foods traditionally accepted as "clean". (before everyone decided to individualize the definition of the term)
Fruits, vegetables, meats, fish, eggs, nuts & seeds make up the majority of the foods I eat. I eat dairy(greek yogurt & cheese) & limited grains, (not for health reasons, I was never big on bread or pasta). Very little highly processed foods, next to no junk food or fast food. When I do indulge a treat, I do so guilt & stress free.1 -
misschellechelle wrote: »Hi all,
Quick question which I know has been debated before -
Is it more important to focus on CICO or "clean eating" such as cutting out all processed food, grains, sugar etc.
I want something sustainable which is why I see CICO as a long term solution, but it seems a lot of the advice I read states the multiple health benefits, including weight loss, from a clean eating, paleo, sugar free diet....
If you could share your thoughts and experiences that would be great
I am looking to loss around 10 pounds.
CICO is just the energy equation...any diet you do follows the CICO formula. You can eat "clean" and you will still gain weight if your energy (calories) coming in exceed your energy (calorie) expenditure.
That said, I eat a predominately whole foods diet (clean is a pretty subjective term that has about a gazillion definitions depending on who you ask) and I find it much easier to not overeat eating relatively clean...but then again, I put on a good 8-10 Lbs every winter eating this way when my overall activity dips....so yeah, it's very possible to eat "clean" and put on weight...it all still comes down to energy balance or lack thereof.
Also, in regards to Paleo...sure, they focus on whole foods which is great...they also demonize other perfectly nutritious whole foods, which makes no sense...according to paleo, legumes and lentils would be unclean even though they are awesome sources of whole food nutrition...it's just kind of stupid.1 -
No grains? that's "clean eating/paleo" isn't it. Well I like grains, I don't care too much for processed foods but sometimes I'll have a pre-made vegan burguer , all within my mcaros/calories limit. works better for me. I do choose whole grain and similar cos I find it more fulfilling and I prefer it that way but others may not and that's fine too!
But I'd never quit lentils and legumes, I did try "vegan paleo" for about 1.5 weeks, I hated it with all my heart xD0 -
Depending on your CICO calorie allowance and what you normally eat, you may need to eat a bit "cleaner" in order to get enough protein, fiber, etc and to avoid your meals being about 2 bites large. But other than that, eat whatever within your calories to lose weight. (Starchy stuff is yummy, but those calories add up really fast and you still need to get protein elsewhere).0
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Also, oats are whole grains...I consider them to be quite healthy and "clean"0
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Calorie counting seems to lead to "healthier" eating in that a lot of the stuff I used to eat is just too many calories for my daily limit. So I've dropped pop and a few other foods, not because they are bad but they have too many calories and I'd rather have something else instead. Beyond that, I don't focus on clean, or healthy or anything of that nature.2
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I have always considered "clean eating" to mean minimally processed. There are plenty of grains out there that fall into that category.
I think eating less processed items (like whole foods without added ingredients, added sugar etc.) is really important. You could make extremely poor food choices, be unhealthy, and still meet weight goals / fall within a specific calorie range. You can also be very thin on the outside and be unhealthy on the inside.
I also think that keeping track of calories for just a little bit can give you some perspective into how certain items (like soda, desserts, alcohol) can really be deterring your health goals. I also think you can get some great bang for your buck with eating healthier items. I am not a fan of CICO as a permanent thing, but I think it's a great teaching tool starting out.0 -
cuadrado12 wrote: »I have always considered "clean eating" to mean minimally processed. There are plenty of grains out there that fall into that category.
I think eating less processed items (like whole foods without added ingredients, added sugar etc.) is really important. You could make extremely poor food choices, be unhealthy, and still meet weight goals / fall within a specific calorie range. You can also be very thin on the outside and be unhealthy on the inside.
I also think that keeping track of calories for just a little bit can give you some perspective into how certain items (like soda, desserts, alcohol) can really be deterring your health goals. I also think you can get some great bang for your buck with eating healthier items. I am not a fan of CICO as a permanent thing, but I think it's a great teaching tool starting out.
If the underlying premise is that a non-whole food or a food with added ingredients or a food with added sugar is automatically a poor choice or will lead to poor health, then I reject that. I don't think there is any evidence to support the claim that these foods, in and of themselves, will lead to poor health.
If I'm meeting my nutritional needs and including some white rice or protein powder or jam sweetened with fruit juice or a teaspoon of sugar in my coffee in my diet, how is that going to hurt me? If I dress a salad with some olive oil, a non-whole food, how is that going to cause harm?
The choice isn't "eat poorly" or "only eat clean foods." There is a whole range of eating between those two choice and those of us who include non-whole foods in our diets aren't necessarily compromising our health.6 -
cuadrado12 wrote: »I have always considered "clean eating" to mean minimally processed. There are plenty of grains out there that fall into that category.
I think eating less processed items (like whole foods without added ingredients, added sugar etc.) is really important. You could make extremely poor food choices, be unhealthy, and still meet weight goals / fall within a specific calorie range. You can also be very thin on the outside and be unhealthy on the inside.
I also think that keeping track of calories for just a little bit can give you some perspective into how certain items (like soda, desserts, alcohol) can really be deterring your health goals. I also think you can get some great bang for your buck with eating healthier items. I am not a fan of CICO as a permanent thing, but I think it's a great teaching tool starting out.
Again, CICO is not a diet or a way of eating. It is a fundamental energy balance that governs everyone. Whether you are eating clean or not, you are following CICO.
Alternatively to the points you make above - you can eat a clean diet comprised of mostly whole foods, and if you are eating in a calorie surplus you can become overweight or obese, which is also not healthy on the inside (or probably the outside).
Lastly - I'm always curious that everyone seems to assume that all processed foods are unhealthy. I eat quite a few processed foods including things like greek yogurt, frozen meals, etc. I also eat whole foods as well. How specifically is the convenient breakfast that I had this morning - frozen egg muffins with bacon, spinach, and cheese - harming my health - compared to the very similar breakfast casserole of eggs, ham, spinach and cheese that I sometimes meal prep on weekends and eat all week long?
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janejellyroll wrote: »cuadrado12 wrote: »I have always considered "clean eating" to mean minimally processed. There are plenty of grains out there that fall into that category.
I think eating less processed items (like whole foods without added ingredients, added sugar etc.) is really important. You could make extremely poor food choices, be unhealthy, and still meet weight goals / fall within a specific calorie range. You can also be very thin on the outside and be unhealthy on the inside.
I also think that keeping track of calories for just a little bit can give you some perspective into how certain items (like soda, desserts, alcohol) can really be deterring your health goals. I also think you can get some great bang for your buck with eating healthier items. I am not a fan of CICO as a permanent thing, but I think it's a great teaching tool starting out.
If the underlying premise is that a non-whole food or a food with added ingredients or a food with added sugar is automatically a poor choice or will lead to poor health, then I reject that. I don't think there is any evidence to support the claim that these foods, in and of themselves, will lead to poor health.
If I'm meeting my nutritional needs and including some white rice or protein powder or jam sweetened with fruit juice or a teaspoon of sugar in my coffee in my diet, how is that going to hurt me? If I dress a salad with some olive oil, a non-whole food, how is that going to cause harm?
The choice isn't "eat poorly" or "only eat clean foods." There is a whole range of eating between those two choice and those of us who include non-whole foods in our diets aren't necessarily compromising our health.
This. I'm in excellent health by every marker my doctor uses and I eat all sorts of foods.1
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