Dieting questions

bmeadows380 · February 2017

My new year's resolution was to start watching my sugar intake and cutting out refined sugars. I had already dropped soda a couple of years ago during my last dieting phase, but I had been slipping on it, sweetened tea, etc. I didn't realize just how much sugar I was eating a day! I wanted to start watching it because my mother's side of the family has a lot of diabetics in it, my mother and sister are both diabetic, and my dad has lately been diagnosed with it. I am morbidly obese and have been struggling with my weight because of PCOS and thyroid issues for years. I had managed to lose a significant amount of weight in 2012, but gained in back in recent years thanks to a bout of thyroid cancer. That's all under control now, and I've started calorie counting again, as that was what worked for me last time.

Most of the calorie estimators I've seen calculate that I should be eating between 1800 and 2000 calories a day to lose 2 lbs a week based on my current weight. I read the Blood Sugar Diet by Michael Mosley and was inspired to start dieting again focusing on eating mediterranean style. However, I couldn't keep myself at 1000 calories a day (and the book recommended 800!), so I bumped up to 1200. I then bumped it up to 1500 a day as I feared that at my current weight, 1200 was too low. I've been at it for right at 4 weeks and have lost 21 lbs, losing 14 the first two weeks and then settling down to about 3 to 4 lbs a week after that. However, after speaking to a dietician available through a program at my work who didn't like how much I was loosing so fast, I upped my calorie intake to 1800.

I've been going for about a 40% carb 25% protien 35% fat mixture and have a goal of 3500mg potassium a day and no more than 48g of sugar. I've seen a lot of confusing information on the sugar thing, though. Some say all sugar is bad no matter the source, others say that you only have to watch added sugar and can eat all the natural you want. I've seen a recommendation of no more than 24g a day, but that's only for added sugar, not natural. Myfitnesspal doesn't let me differential between added and natural, so I set a goal of no more than 48g a day and I stay completely away from sweets, sugary drinks and such, sticking to using stevia sparingly when I want something sweetened, and using honey or molasses very, very sparingly. I've managed to stay around that 48g goal, though it got harder as I raised my calorie intake up.

1st - 1800 calories a day was the low end of all the recommendations I've seen, and thatt was supposed to average out to 2 lbs a week. However, I've been eating that for a week now, and I've only lost about 0.5 lb instead of 2 lbs. I was loosing about 3 lbs a week at 1500, so why the drastic slow down? Is the BMR calculators incorrect for someone my size or could my PCOS and lack of a thyroid be slowing my metabolism down more than the calculator adjusts for?

2nd - I bought a blood sugar monitor when I started the diet since I fully expected my blood sugar to go down since I have faithfully been staying away from added sweeteners and junk foods and keeping natural sugar in check. However, instead of going down, I've actually seen it go up! And the more I raise my calorie intake, the more it goes up - it went up by a good 5 pts when I increased from 1200 to 1500, and its gone up nearly 10 pts since I increased from 1500 to 1800. I'm faithfully sticking to low sugars and the veggie-heavy mediterranean diet. I'm strictly limiting starches, using potatoes and pasta very sparingly and sticking to the whole grain variety when I do eat it. I'm coming in close to the 40% carb need a day based on my calorie limit, so I'm not going under or overboard on my carbs, and I'm coming very close to or exceeding my protein targets a day.

It's high when I take it of a morning before I eat breakfast, but I've been checking it throughout the day and I see that it comes down as the day goes by - I'll be pushing 120 of a morning when I get up before eating anything, and then by lunch time, it's down to 95 - 105.

Has anyone else seen something like this happen? could it be that since I'm not eating the added sugar, the blood sugar spike is because I'm burning the fat out of my liver? I tried to get my doctor to order some blood work, but she won't do it until I see her next week, so I don't have a lab result to compare my meter to - could my meter be over by as much as 10 pts?

Giuliaborg · February 2017

Hi bmeadows!
your message is very interesting but also quite complicated :-)
I'll give you my very personal opinion, which is based on my knowledge but I can obviously be wrong, so just take it as my opinion!

1- I also have PCOS, and I don't feel I get fatter any quicker than an average person if I eat more than I need, but PCOS can affect you by various degree, so this is very personal. Are you taking any medicine for your thyroid? Have you check the blood level of your thyroid hormones? If they are okay or if you are already taking medicine to adjust their level, then I do not think this is slowing down you weight loss. I think as you said the first weeks are easier for losing weight, and then it usually becomes more challenging. If you have been suggested to eat 1800 maybe you could stick with it for a months and see if it works.

2- I don't know anything about this topic, so I don't have any specific suggestion. Maybe you could ask to you doctor, but unless he/she suggests you to do so, I won't stress to much checking the sugar level so often.

As for sugar in general, I think avoiding added sugars as much as you can is the best strategy, and natural occurring sugars like fruits etc are fine if they are not in huge amounts. I think you are already doing very well from what I read, and you probably need o keep going on the same path!! :-)

hopefilledhomemaker · February 2017

Hi! I would highly recommend you raise your protein intake. Protein is the key to balancing your blood sugar levels, and you should never have a meal without it. I don't believe you should go below 30% for protein. I would also recommend that you eat a protein snack before bed... something like celery sticks with a little bit of natural, sugar free peanut butter, a handful of almonds, or a few slices of cheese.

mrowsers · February 2017

Likely what's happening is your sugar is dropping a little low overnight. Your liver then is breaking down glycogen to make sugar to keep your blood sugar up. So when you wake up in the morning your blood sugar is high. After you eat again your blood sugar will rise temporarily, but insulin will kick in and bring it down to normal levels. That's likely why your sugar normalizes throughout the day.

Sugar is sugar is sugar. Sugar from fruit will raise your blood sugar just the same as a spoonful of sugar from the sugar bowl. It will be different in regards to the amount of satiety you derive from it, but your blood sugar levels will be the same. In other words, if you are concerned about diabetes you need to restrict sugar from every source, natural or not.

jemhh · February 2017

PCOS here too.

I am going to suggest that you prioritize meeting your protein, fat, and calorie goal and not focus so much on sugar. Once you start hitting p/f/calories, your carbs will fall into place and become less of an issue the way they seem to be for some women with PCOS.

Since you are morbidly obese, base your protein and fat goals on the top healthy weight for your BMI. Calculate as follows (example assumes top healthy weight is 150 lbs):

150 x .8 = 120 grams of protein per day minimum
150 x .4 = 60 grams of fat per day minimum

This gives you 480 calories in protein (minimum) and 540 in fat (minimum.) After that, the remaining 780 calories (1800-480-540) can come from more protein, more fat, or carbs. Obviously a mix of any of those is fine.

I've actually been reading lately that 1 gram of protein per pound and .6 grams of fat per pound are good guidelines for many women with PCOS. If you did that, you'd be eating 150 grams of protein (600 calories), 90 grams of fat (810 calories), and would be left with 390 calories to play with.

angefrat · February 2017

Hello. I have. It posted in long time, gave up,on my diet, but. Ow back to the diet. Does anyone know, what percent of carb is for dieting? On my fitness pal,,the wheel of nutrition, says what percentage of carbs I have used by end of day, so I ok,but just wondering what carb they are allowing me? Example, 30 grams of carbs a day? I have a long way to go, I would like to lose 40 pounds,

AnnPT77 · February 2017

Don't assume too much based on weight loss results from just one week, especially when you've changed your way of eating or exercising at the same time. Since you are losing, I'd suggest sticking with your current target level for at least 3-4 weeks, including one full monthly cycle if female, before making any kind of drastic adjustment.

Over a one-week test period, all kinds of things could be causing you to hold onto a bit more water weight (masking fat loss), or your eating changes could have affected either water weight or average weight of food in your digestive system, etc.

So, I'd suggest patiently letting your new experiment run for a while.

spiriteagle99 · February 2017

Angefrat - MFP gives you a default percentage of fat, protein and carbs. I don't remember what the numbers are, but I think it's something like 35%, 25% and 50%. How many carbs that would be will depend on how many calories you are eating. If you look at your food log, it will tell you how many carbs you are eating and how many you have left. If you are exercising as well, the numbers will go up with the additional calories that you are allowed. You can change your percentages if you want to or just ignore the macros entirely. As long as you are within the calorie limit, you should lose weight.

bmeadows380 · February 2017

Giuliaborg wrote: »

1- I also have PCOS, and I don't feel I get fatter any quicker than an average person if I eat more than I need, but PCOS can affect you by various degree, so this is very personal. Are you taking any medicine for your thyroid? Have you check the blood level of your thyroid hormones? If they are okay or if you are already taking medicine to adjust their level, then I do not think this is slowing down you weight loss. I think as you said the first weeks are easier for losing weight, and then it usually becomes more challenging. If you have been suggested to eat 1800 maybe you could stick with it for a months and see if it works./quote]

Thanks for the reply! I don't have a thyroid any more as it was removed in 2014 because of cancer, so yeah, I'm definitely on medication for it That's part of the reason I gained my weight back, because it took a long time to get me to a decent level of medication to compensate for the missing thyroid, and it's still not right, I think, because while they have my levels way low - I mean extremely hyperthyroid - because of the cancer diagnosis, I'm still showing the symptoms of being hypothyroid. I want to try the NDT when I see my doctor next and see if that helps the exhaustion and fatigue problems I've been dealing with.

But I'm one of those PCOS's who has a real problem with weight, and I have ever since my teens. And I've read some articles where some doctors are starting to think that PCOS may lower some people's metabolism more than what is thought because of issues with T3. That's part of why I want to try the NDT.

hopefilledhomemaker wrote: »

Hi! I would highly recommend you raise your protein intake. Protein is the key to balancing your blood sugar levels, and you should never have a meal without it. I don't believe you should go below 30% for protein. I would also recommend that you eat a protein snack before bed... something like celery sticks with a little bit of natural, sugar free peanut butter, a handful of almonds, or a few slices of cheese.

Thanks for the reply! I dont know if I could get more protein in. AT 1800 calories and using 25% for protein, I'm having a hard time, even with protein shakes, to get the 113g protein in. I don't know if I could get in more!

mrowsers wrote: »

Likely what's happening is your sugar is dropping a little low overnight. Your liver then is breaking down glycogen to make sugar to keep your blood sugar up. So when you wake up in the morning your blood sugar is high. After you eat again your blood sugar will rise temporarily, but insulin will kick in and bring it down to normal levels. That's likely why your sugar normalizes throughout the day.

Sugar is sugar is sugar. Sugar from fruit will raise your blood sugar just the same as a spoonful of sugar from the sugar bowl. It will be different in regards to the amount of satiety you derive from it, but your blood sugar levels will be the same. In other words, if you are concerned about diabetes you need to restrict sugar from every source, natural or not.

That's what I'm suspecting may be happening, though there was one morning where I woke up at 3 am and thought to take it, it was running high. I'm on metformin for the PCOS and was taking the entire dose of an evening so it wouldn't interfer with my synthroid that I would take before breakfast of a morning. I wondered if that was causing a big drop over night, so I started taking 1 pill of an evening with supper, take the 2nd of a morning with breakfast, and then fast for 4 hours, take my synthroid, then have lunch an hour after that. Nothing has changed - I'm still high of a morning. I definitely want to talk to my doctor about it, and I want to compare my meter to a real lab blood test when I can argue her into ordering it.

The thing about sugar is kind of what I was thinking, so I am trying to keep the sugary fruit down, staying away from the tropical fruits except for can occasional banana. The thing is, the blood sugar thing is still high, even if I stay completely away from high-carb foods and sugary ones the day before or not. That's why I'm suspecting your first thought about my liver making sugar from its stored fat might be what's happening.

Thanks for responding!

jemhh wrote: »

PCOS here too.

I am going to suggest that you prioritize meeting your protein, fat, and calorie goal and not focus so much on sugar. Once you start hitting p/f/calories, your carbs will fall into place and become less of an issue the way they seem to be for some women with PCOS.

Since you are morbidly obese, base your protein and fat goals on the top healthy weight for your BMI. Calculate as follows (example assumes top healthy weight is 150 lbs):

150 x .8 = 120 grams of protein per day minimum
150 x .4 = 60 grams of fat per day minimum

This gives you 480 calories in protein (minimum) and 540 in fat (minimum.) After that, the remaining 780 calories (1800-480-540) can come from more protein, more fat, or carbs. Obviously a mix of any of those is fine.

I've actually been reading lately that 1 gram of protein per pound and .6 grams of fat per pound are good guidelines for many women with PCOS. If you did that, you'd be eating 150 grams of protein (600 calories), 90 grams of fat (810 calories), and would be left with 390 calories to play with.

I did see some studies saying that low carb diets helped with some PCOS patients, but that extremely low carb diets can cause problems for others, so I started with the 40% limit and raised up the protein and fat to make up the difference from the default values. The problem I'm having is getting in enough protein and potassium - I feel like I have to make a trade off; either eat foods that are high in potassium, or one with protein; I can't seem to find good ones that are full of both, except for dairy, which can be a problem for me if I eat too much of that.

And I definitely want to keep a focus on the potassium. Though the recommended daily intake for that is 4700mg (which is insanely high!), I started focusing on trying to get 2800mg at first, and now I'm trying for 3500mg When I started getting more potassium in, I noticed that I was feeling better and that the muscle cramps issues I was dealing with went away - and this was before I began really trying to reach my protein goals.

Any suggestion for foods that are good protein sources AND potassium sources without being high in sugar?

Dieting questions

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