Non Spirtual meditation
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I like any of the stuff by Jon Kabbat-Zinn. His writing is really accessible and practical.0
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Another atheist here. I started meditating as a way to help keep calm during stressful situations. Taking ten minutes to quiet myself after a bad situation can help put things into perspective.
https://www.youtube.com/user/PositiveMagazine
I've tried a couple an app and a podcast network, but this Youtube channel has really clicked with me. While I can't speak for the whole channel, the positive meditations and talk down meditations are pretty nifty.0 -
I am an atheist as well. i don't meditate but I never thought of it as a religious thing. Not sure why one would.
What is generally thought of as meditation comes from the Eastern religions. Because they believe that having personal desire can prevent someone from reaching enlightenment, they try to remove all desire by mediating. In doing so they are trying to remove all thought from their mind.
In Christianity, mediation takes a different form. The elimination of desire isn't something that is required because all is required was done by Jesus Christ when he died and rose from the dead on the Christians behalf. Instead, the Christian seeks for a better understanding of God. Great importance is placed on the Bible and the evidence that confirms it. It is this that a Christian meditates on, though it could just as easily be called Bible study and scientific research instead of meditation.
It seems to me that what a person mediates on reveals what they are putting their trust in, and that makes it a very religious thing.2 -
TimothyFish wrote: »I am an atheist as well. i don't meditate but I never thought of it as a religious thing. Not sure why one would.
What is generally thought of as meditation comes from the Eastern religions. Because they believe that having personal desire can prevent someone from reaching enlightenment, they try to remove all desire by mediating. In doing so they are trying to remove all thought from their mind.
In Christianity, mediation takes a different form. The elimination of desire isn't something that is required because all is required was done by Jesus Christ when he died and rose from the dead on the Christians behalf. Instead, the Christian seeks for a better understanding of God. Great importance is placed on the Bible and the evidence that confirms it. It is this that a Christian meditates on, though it could just as easily be called Bible study and scientific research instead of meditation.
It seems to me that what a person mediates on reveals what they are putting their trust in, and that makes it a very religious thing.
I fail to see the religious content in maintaining calm awareness of the sensation of my own breathing, and setting aside other thoughts.
I admit, I trust (in a limited, provisional sense) that I'll keep breathing, but if and when I stop I don't think I'll be here to care.
Mindfulness meditations, as practiced by some of us moderns, don't necessarily have an objective of removing desire, nor do they necessarily have a focus in the sense that inherently Christian meditations do.
So: Religious content/implications are possible, but not necessary, in meditation practice, IMO.0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »I am an atheist as well. i don't meditate but I never thought of it as a religious thing. Not sure why one would.
What is generally thought of as meditation comes from the Eastern religions. Because they believe that having personal desire can prevent someone from reaching enlightenment, they try to remove all desire by mediating. In doing so they are trying to remove all thought from their mind.
In Christianity, mediation takes a different form. The elimination of desire isn't something that is required because all is required was done by Jesus Christ when he died and rose from the dead on the Christians behalf. Instead, the Christian seeks for a better understanding of God. Great importance is placed on the Bible and the evidence that confirms it. It is this that a Christian meditates on, though it could just as easily be called Bible study and scientific research instead of meditation.
It seems to me that what a person mediates on reveals what they are putting their trust in, and that makes it a very religious thing.
I fail to see the religious content in maintaining calm awareness of the sensation of my own breathing, and setting aside other thoughts.
I admit, I trust (in a limited, provisional sense) that I'll keep breathing, but if and when I stop I don't think I'll be here to care.
Mindfulness meditations, as practiced by some of us moderns, don't necessarily have an objective of removing desire, nor do they necessarily have a focus in the sense that inherently Christian meditations do.
So: Religious content/implications are possible, but not necessary, in meditation practice, IMO.
I would argue that the fact that you are placing the priority on focusing on your own breathing for whatever reason you are doing it reveals something about your view of religion.1 -
What has worked Wonders for me for relaxing and meditation are Binaural Beats, many various types available on YouTube!
It's calming and I use it to fall asleep.0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »I am an atheist as well. i don't meditate but I never thought of it as a religious thing. Not sure why one would.
What is generally thought of as meditation comes from the Eastern religions. Because they believe that having personal desire can prevent someone from reaching enlightenment, they try to remove all desire by mediating. In doing so they are trying to remove all thought from their mind.
In Christianity, mediation takes a different form. The elimination of desire isn't something that is required because all is required was done by Jesus Christ when he died and rose from the dead on the Christians behalf. Instead, the Christian seeks for a better understanding of God. Great importance is placed on the Bible and the evidence that confirms it. It is this that a Christian meditates on, though it could just as easily be called Bible study and scientific research instead of meditation.
It seems to me that what a person mediates on reveals what they are putting their trust in, and that makes it a very religious thing.
I fail to see the religious content in maintaining calm awareness of the sensation of my own breathing, and setting aside other thoughts.
I admit, I trust (in a limited, provisional sense) that I'll keep breathing, but if and when I stop I don't think I'll be here to care.
Mindfulness meditations, as practiced by some of us moderns, don't necessarily have an objective of removing desire, nor do they necessarily have a focus in the sense that inherently Christian meditations do.
So: Religious content/implications are possible, but not necessary, in meditation practice, IMO.
I would argue that the fact that you are placing the priority on focusing on your own breathing for whatever reason you are doing it reveals something about your view of religion.
Presumably the fact that at other times I focus intently for 10 minutes on speeding the fingering cleanly up the banjo-neck in a particular piece I'm practicing; or on eating a delicious bowl of sweet potato peanut bisque; or on getting a cleaner catch with my oars; or on listening to "Car Talk" on the radio; or on keeping my walking speed above 4mph; or what have you - those also reveal something about my view of religion.
OK.
Truly, I'm just not that spiritual. I know this sort of thing is difficult for spiritual people to believe or understand, though. Peace - you can define your meditation; I'll define mine.0 -
Another vote for Jon Kabbat-Zinn.1
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I'm an agnostic, dyslxic insomniac. I lay awake all night wondering if there is a dog.
Seriously, I can't get the brain quiet enough to meditate on my own. I've tried again and again. I really like guided meditation though. The Honest Guys on YT have a lot I like and I recently ran across this one that I really like for stress and anxiety.
Funniest thing I've read on these forums
Lots of people's brains aren't automatically quiet enough to meditate. That's actually thought to be why yoga was invented - to quiet the monkey mind before meditation. My mind is often not quiet enough for yoga - I find it helpful to do some cardio first. Or I do my warmups with the TV on, and after that switch to a more meditative practice.
Yoga is sometimes referred to as "Meditation in Motion".
Also, no points subtracted for guided meditation
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TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »I am an atheist as well. i don't meditate but I never thought of it as a religious thing. Not sure why one would.
What is generally thought of as meditation comes from the Eastern religions. Because they believe that having personal desire can prevent someone from reaching enlightenment, they try to remove all desire by mediating. In doing so they are trying to remove all thought from their mind.
In Christianity, mediation takes a different form. The elimination of desire isn't something that is required because all is required was done by Jesus Christ when he died and rose from the dead on the Christians behalf. Instead, the Christian seeks for a better understanding of God. Great importance is placed on the Bible and the evidence that confirms it. It is this that a Christian meditates on, though it could just as easily be called Bible study and scientific research instead of meditation.
It seems to me that what a person mediates on reveals what they are putting their trust in, and that makes it a very religious thing.
I fail to see the religious content in maintaining calm awareness of the sensation of my own breathing, and setting aside other thoughts.
I admit, I trust (in a limited, provisional sense) that I'll keep breathing, but if and when I stop I don't think I'll be here to care.
Mindfulness meditations, as practiced by some of us moderns, don't necessarily have an objective of removing desire, nor do they necessarily have a focus in the sense that inherently Christian meditations do.
So: Religious content/implications are possible, but not necessary, in meditation practice, IMO.
I would argue that the fact that you are placing the priority on focusing on your own breathing for whatever reason you are doing it reveals something about your view of religion.
Presumably the fact that at other times I focus intently for 10 minutes on speeding the fingering cleanly up the banjo-neck in a particular piece I'm practicing; or on eating a delicious bowl of sweet potato peanut bisque; or on getting a cleaner catch with my oars; or on listening to "Car Talk" on the radio; or on keeping my walking speed above 4mph; or what have you - those also reveal something about my view of religion.
OK.
Truly, I'm just not that spiritual. I know this sort of thing is difficult for spiritual people to believe or understand, though. Peace - you can define your meditation; I'll define mine.
No, nothing like what you call "meditation." I actually find your use of the word "spiritual" to be more revealing. It isn't a word that I've heard a devout person of any religion use to describe themselves. It tends to be used by people who see religion as a set of activities that they can choose to do or perhaps lay aside if it is inconvenient. It isn't used by people whose beliefs permeate their who lives. Which is why meditation tells us so much about a person's beliefs. For a person whose beliefs permeate their lives, if you remove everything that distracts them what you have left are their most important beliefs. If you do that with a "spiritual" or a "non-spiritual" person, the "spiritual" stuff is just one of the things that distracts them. Remove that and everything else that distracts them and what you have left is their core beliefs. Whatever that is, that is their religion.1 -
TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »I am an atheist as well. i don't meditate but I never thought of it as a religious thing. Not sure why one would.
What is generally thought of as meditation comes from the Eastern religions. Because they believe that having personal desire can prevent someone from reaching enlightenment, they try to remove all desire by mediating. In doing so they are trying to remove all thought from their mind.
In Christianity, mediation takes a different form. The elimination of desire isn't something that is required because all is required was done by Jesus Christ when he died and rose from the dead on the Christians behalf. Instead, the Christian seeks for a better understanding of God. Great importance is placed on the Bible and the evidence that confirms it. It is this that a Christian meditates on, though it could just as easily be called Bible study and scientific research instead of meditation.
It seems to me that what a person mediates on reveals what they are putting their trust in, and that makes it a very religious thing.
I fail to see the religious content in maintaining calm awareness of the sensation of my own breathing, and setting aside other thoughts.
I admit, I trust (in a limited, provisional sense) that I'll keep breathing, but if and when I stop I don't think I'll be here to care.
Mindfulness meditations, as practiced by some of us moderns, don't necessarily have an objective of removing desire, nor do they necessarily have a focus in the sense that inherently Christian meditations do.
So: Religious content/implications are possible, but not necessary, in meditation practice, IMO.
I would argue that the fact that you are placing the priority on focusing on your own breathing for whatever reason you are doing it reveals something about your view of religion.
Presumably the fact that at other times I focus intently for 10 minutes on speeding the fingering cleanly up the banjo-neck in a particular piece I'm practicing; or on eating a delicious bowl of sweet potato peanut bisque; or on getting a cleaner catch with my oars; or on listening to "Car Talk" on the radio; or on keeping my walking speed above 4mph; or what have you - those also reveal something about my view of religion.
OK.
Truly, I'm just not that spiritual. I know this sort of thing is difficult for spiritual people to believe or understand, though. Peace - you can define your meditation; I'll define mine.
No, nothing like what you call "meditation." I actually find your use of the word "spiritual" to be more revealing. It isn't a word that I've heard a devout person of any religion use to describe themselves. It tends to be used by people who see religion as a set of activities that they can choose to do or perhaps lay aside if it is inconvenient. It isn't used by people whose beliefs permeate their who lives. Which is why meditation tells us so much about a person's beliefs. For a person whose beliefs permeate their lives, if you remove everything that distracts them what you have left are their most important beliefs. If you do that with a "spiritual" or a "non-spiritual" person, the "spiritual" stuff is just one of the things that distracts them. Remove that and everything else that distracts them and what you have left is their core beliefs. Whatever that is, that is their religion.
I don't see religion in the way you suggest - as a set of activities. We're also seriously off topic for this thread.
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I guess I define religion as "organized". Rules, tenements, books, history and tradition all become part of the religion. Spiritual is less rules based and more based on "feelings". I've been religious in the past, I have not really been spiritual. Now I'm neither.
There is certainly crossover between the two, but one can be spiritual without being religious and vice versa.
Back on topic, I've downloaded the Benson book and have made it through to pre-amble. I already have some concerns, namely the list of ailments his techniques are supposed to help with. Having trouble buying some of the items his technique is supposed to help with. I'll keep reading.0 -
I use mindfulness style meditations to help me sleep.
Things like headspace and sleepfulness
These are designed to be started fully awake/alert/sat upright.... they will help you with a busy mind ...
I find a lot of these 'guided meditation' videos on YouTube have these crazy floaty voices and music .... and i find it very off putting (almost funny)
These apps are great and have been using them for a while .... headspace has a 10 day free starter... called Take 10
They're totally non-spiritual and a lot more in-tune with daily life we lead0 -
Meditation certainly BEGAN with a religious focus, probably because in most cultures the idea of being non-religious just didn't exist until the modern time.
However it's perfectly possible to have meditation practices WITHOUT a 'spiritual' aspect (using 'spiritual' in relation to religion, rather than 'spiritual in terms of being in touch with one's inner self).
Mindfulness as it began is a Buddhist practice, but has been adjusted for the modern age. Most non-spiritual meditations focus on either the breath or on developing awareness of the present. I always struggled with meditation as I was initially told it was about 'not-thinking' or 'stopping thoughts'. The I heard something about it not being about STOPPING thoughts, but more not giving those thoughts your attention. The description was about every time a thought came into your head when trying to meditate, think of it as a cloud that gently passes by - you can observe it, but not focus on it.
I have a daoist view of the way the body and the universe fit together, so I suppose this makes me 'spiritual' in some ways.
You might also like to look for Mark Williams book/audiobook - 'Mindfulness - Finding Peace in a Frantic world2
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