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Do we trust professionals too much?
deannalfisher
Posts: 5,600 Member
in Debate Club
so this is something that has been burning in the back of my mind for a little while, but was really exacerbated by a discussion that I had a friend with the other night. She was bemoaning the fact that she has gained 2lbs while working out and when I asked if she was tracking her food - she was like, no my trainer tells me what to eat and controls everything...which kind of left my dumbfounded (of course, I've had some other discussions with her IRT her trainer and the fact that she bonked on a long run because was given no nutrition guidance as a new worker-outer)...
but then daily we hear information from "professionals" that kind of makes those of us familiar with nutrition/health/MFP just kind of *kitten* an eyebrow and say what...
thoughts?
but then daily we hear information from "professionals" that kind of makes those of us familiar with nutrition/health/MFP just kind of *kitten* an eyebrow and say what...
thoughts?
1
Replies
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I'm not sure I would consider a trainer a professional, esp in regards to nutrition. With so much information available via Dr. Google it's easy to find a 'professional' opinion that agrees with just about anything. I do my own research, cover with my doctor if needed, and research some more, then do what works for me. It's trial and error really.6
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I think we think some people know more than they actually know, assuming they have longer and more thorough training than is the reality. Particularly with personal trainers. They look good so they must know what they're talking about right? Same with fitness instructors who take classes, they've just passed a weekend course and often know very little about technique but people who go think they're super knowledgeable about everything health and fitness related.
I also think there's a dearth of critical thinking, which is ironic given how easily information can be accessed now with the internet.9 -
VintageFeline wrote: »I think we think some people know more than they actually know, assuming they have longer and more thorough training than is the reality. Particularly with personal trainers. They look good so they must know what they're talking about right? Same with fitness instructors who take classes, they've just passed a weekend course and often know very little about technique but people who go think they're super knowledgeable about everything health and fitness related.
I also think there's a dearth of critical thinking, which is ironic given how easily information can be accessed now with the internet.
That's actually part of the problem, and is in no way ironic. Why waste energy thinking when you can just Google the answer, even if it's the wrong answer half of the time?3 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »I think we think some people know more than they actually know, assuming they have longer and more thorough training than is the reality. Particularly with personal trainers. They look good so they must know what they're talking about right? Same with fitness instructors who take classes, they've just passed a weekend course and often know very little about technique but people who go think they're super knowledgeable about everything health and fitness related.
I also think there's a dearth of critical thinking, which is ironic given how easily information can be accessed now with the internet.
That's actually part of the problem, and is in no way ironic. Why waste energy thinking when you can just Google the answer, even if it's the wrong answer half of the time?
I guess it's the problem and could be the solution if only people read beyond the top two results. Agreed though, there's so much information people don't or won't wade through it all to find the truth.2 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »I think we think some people know more than they actually know, assuming they have longer and more thorough training than is the reality. Particularly with personal trainers. They look good so they must know what they're talking about right? Same with fitness instructors who take classes, they've just passed a weekend course and often know very little about technique but people who go think they're super knowledgeable about everything health and fitness related.
I also think there's a dearth of critical thinking, which is ironic given how easily information can be accessed now with the internet.
That's actually part of the problem, and is in no way ironic. Why waste energy thinking when you can just Google the answer, even if it's the wrong answer half of the time?
I guess it's the problem and could be the solution if only people read beyond the top two results. Agreed though, there's so much information people don't or won't wade through it all to find the truth.
Exactly. In my experience, the two greatest factors in the propagation of misinformation are fear and laziness. Humans don't typically suffer a lack of either.1 -
Information literacy is the ability to effectively evaluate information sources. There's nothing wrong with using Google if you're information literate, but few people are.
As far as personal trainers: They tend to know nothing because there's really no training involved. The "trainers" at my old gym had a 45-minute intro to what all the machines did, and then were allowed to "train" people. Trainers are right up there with nutritionists in terms of the actual knowledge & education needed to gain the title.13 -
I'm not sure I would consider a trainer a professional, esp in regards to nutrition. With so much information available via Dr. Google it's easy to find a 'professional' opinion that agrees with just about anything. I do my own research, cover with my doctor if needed, and research some more, then do what works for me. It's trial and error really.
personally I wouldn't either...but she literally told me that she is putting it in the hands of her trainer until she learns more because she is a newbie...followed by her telling me she can't eat carbs like I do because I'm a badass and she isn't (when she easily works out twice as much as me daily)0 -
VintageFeline wrote: »I think we think some people know more than they actually know, assuming they have longer and more thorough training than is the reality. Particularly with personal trainers. They look good so they must know what they're talking about right? Same with fitness instructors who take classes, they've just passed a weekend course and often know very little about technique but people who go think they're super knowledgeable about everything health and fitness related.
I also think there's a dearth of critical thinking, which is ironic given how easily information can be accessed now with the internet.
this is kind of where I was going but was interested in others thoughts...I see same/similar comments on many triathlon forums...my (insert type of professional here) told me I should only be eating 1400cal a day and I bonked on a bike ride; (and they aren't eating back workout calories either).
that being said - I do work with a guy who has a PhD in nutrition - but i'll even question him on stuff - show me the research (if there is any)1 -
Absolutely. Never allow anyone to stand on the "letters behind their name". The veracity of the statement is all that matters.
Something I've learned is that when someone stands on their experience or title this is usually because the data is lacking.
Further complicating this is the sheer volume of information out there and the myopic focus of experts. This reinforces the need for generalists to review information to ensure the ramifications are not worse than the solution.
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Absolutely. Never allow anyone to stand on the "letters behind their name". The veracity of the statement is all that matters.
Something I've learned is that when someone stands on their experience or title this is usually because the data is lacking.
Further complicating this is the sheer volume of information out there and the myopic focus of experts. This reinforces the need for generalists to review information to ensure the ramifications are not worse than the solution.
assuming they have letters after their name...I would trust them (marginally) more than a trainer...but even professionals with certifications make errors - one of my good friends is still dealing with an RD who she worked with during Ironman training that reduced her cals wayyy down and caused some metabolic damage when she went in for medical testing
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I think a lot of people lack the ability to think critically and they don't have the ability to recognize a grifter when they see one.2
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In general, I'd say yes. It's not just professionals in the diet industry, either. How many people turn their finances over to a financial advisor without (much) question, or do whatever their doctor tells them no matter what - even when the treatment doesn't seem to be working or the symptoms don't fit the diagnosis?
But then, I'm cynical. I've run into too many instances where doctors do things like prescribe drugs that have potentially fatal interactions with other drugs the person is already taking, or have a GP and a specialist be at odds - and it turns out either the GP is more knowledgeable than the specialist or neither knows current best standards.5 -
In general, I'd say yes. It's not just professionals in the diet industry, either. How many people turn their finances over to a financial advisor without (much) question, or do whatever their doctor tells them no matter what - even when the treatment doesn't seem to be working or the symptoms don't fit the diagnosis?
But then, I'm cynical. I've run into too many instances where doctors do things like prescribe drugs that have potentially fatal interactions with other drugs the person is already taking, or have a GP and a specialist be at odds - and it turns out either the GP is more knowledgeable than the specialist or neither knows current best standards.
I hadn't gone that far - but its true...I had a nodule on my thyroid but because my tests came back "normal" my doctor wasn't willing to do anything...fast forward 6mths, new doctor - sonogram and biopsy and a diagnosis of thyroid cancer...which typically doesn't show in blood work (and also diagnosed and pre-hashimoto's)0 -
I trust those who've earned my trust. I trust my primary care physician, not because of his impressive credentials, but because he backed up his advice with research. I trust my endocrinologist for the same reason. Plus their advice has always gotten good results for me. I don't trust the trainer I know to give good nutritional advice even though she has a degree in nutrition because she says some pretty wacky stuff.
I think that people tend to trust professional credentials without evaluating the advice the professional gives because it's easier to trust someone else than to do their own research.4 -
deannalfisher wrote: »Absolutely. Never allow anyone to stand on the "letters behind their name". The veracity of the statement is all that matters.
Something I've learned is that when someone stands on their experience or title this is usually because the data is lacking.
Further complicating this is the sheer volume of information out there and the myopic focus of experts. This reinforces the need for generalists to review information to ensure the ramifications are not worse than the solution.
assuming they have letters after their name...I would trust them (marginally) more than a trainer...but even professionals with certifications make errors - one of my good friends is still dealing with an RD who she worked with during Ironman training that reduced her cals wayyy down and caused some metabolic damage when she went in for medical testing
I've never dared to put this to formula, but my thought process would be something like:
Data ^2 x experience x education x (delivery/2) = good advice
From my time in academia I found the information from theorists often incorrect simply due to the lack of experience one gains from practical application. Hence advice given by a trainer who has actually used a plan successfully would carry more weight.2 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »I think we think some people know more than they actually know, assuming they have longer and more thorough training than is the reality. Particularly with personal trainers. They look good so they must know what they're talking about right? Same with fitness instructors who take classes, they've just passed a weekend course and often know very little about technique but people who go think they're super knowledgeable about everything health and fitness related.
I also think there's a dearth of critical thinking, which is ironic given how easily information can be accessed now with the internet.
That's actually part of the problem, and is in no way ironic. Why waste energy thinking when you can just Google the answer, even if it's the wrong answer half of the time?
I guess it's the problem and could be the solution if only people read beyond the top two results. Agreed though, there's so much information people don't or won't wade through it all to find the truth.
I mean, I consider myself a person of average intelligence and education and sometimes I've overwhelmed with the contradictions when I Google something. Too much information can be a problem, especially if you don't know enough about the issue to sort good information from bad.4 -
I think another piece of the problem is that people tend to indiscriminately trust a 'professional', even if they're not a professional in the particular field the person is asking about.
Maybe a trainer is certified/trained/educated/whatever, in physical training. Ok, so they're a legit 'professional', but only in that specific field. You shouldn't then go to them for dietary or medical advice just because they're a 'professional'. I'd go to a dietician for the dietary advice, and a doctor for the medical advice. The same way I wouldn't go to my GP for dietary advice. Sure, they're a professional with lots and lots and lots of schooling, but very very little of it is actually in diet and nutrition. So I think that people also have a tendency to assume that a 'professional' in a particular field somehow has authority over many other fields, and people don't take the time to stop and really question whether a 'qualified' person is actually 'qualified' in the type of info they're looking for.2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »I think we think some people know more than they actually know, assuming they have longer and more thorough training than is the reality. Particularly with personal trainers. They look good so they must know what they're talking about right? Same with fitness instructors who take classes, they've just passed a weekend course and often know very little about technique but people who go think they're super knowledgeable about everything health and fitness related.
I also think there's a dearth of critical thinking, which is ironic given how easily information can be accessed now with the internet.
That's actually part of the problem, and is in no way ironic. Why waste energy thinking when you can just Google the answer, even if it's the wrong answer half of the time?
I guess it's the problem and could be the solution if only people read beyond the top two results. Agreed though, there's so much information people don't or won't wade through it all to find the truth.
I mean, I consider myself a person of average intelligence and education and sometimes I've overwhelmed with the contradictions when I Google something. Too much information can be a problem, especially if you don't know enough about the issue to sort good information from bad.
This is a valid point, and one exacerbated by the fact that even in the realm of published studies, there are many that conflict on their faces. Unless one is familiar with processes and controls, it can get very confusing. Even then, there are examples of studies that are nearly identical in most areas, BUT they can never really control for individual response, especially when it comes to nutrition and training.0 -
I trust my coach implicitly...0
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Relevant article that just showed up in a newsletter.
http://anabolicminds.com/articles/credentials-mean-dont-26826/2 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I trust my coach implicitly...
so do I...unless it comes to doing math and then all bets are off0 -
I went to the doctor yesterday, and had minor surgery. Absolute trust in her as a professional. I'm already feeling better than when I went in.0
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deannalfisher wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »I trust my coach implicitly...
so do I...unless it comes to doing math and then all bets are off
I think the bigger issue is actually vetting professionals...I went through a few different trainers early on with things not working out for various reasons...took me about 2 years to find my coach.
I think it's also difficult to find a good trainer/coach at big commercial gyms as that's where people tend to get their start in the profession and they're kind of on their own little learning curve...I typically didn't look for trainers who were employed by the gym but rather trainers who leased space and were essentially self employed.3 -
I've got enough of a mind/education that I've learned to question a lot, and not enough of a mind/education to understand all the answers I get.
Going strictly by my experience in life, no, I will not just blindly trust any professionals with letters attached to their names, but that doesn't mean I'll ignore advice or dismiss them out of hand either. I have the worlds largest database at my fingertips, so I can check out the advice of even those I trust if I feel the need, explore options, see what others experiences are.
That said, some of those letters are hard fought for and won, and I respect the heck out of that, but it's seemed to me that the people who really do know what they're talking about are usually open to spending a few minutes explaining how they arrived at their conclusions, giving me the benefit of the doubt that I just might be able to understand what they're saying. Again, lots of respect for those folks.0 -
NorthCascades wrote: »I went to the doctor yesterday, and had minor surgery. Absolute trust in her as a professional. I'm already feeling better than when I went in.
but did you just blindly trust her - or did you do research to check out credentials? reviews? ask questions?
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To be honest, it was an emergency situation. This doctor could see me that day, and took my insurance. Her office was inside of a hospital. (I don't like that arrangement, but, again, time was of the essence.) So, no reviews, but the fact that GroupHealth hired and continued to employ her was good enough for me, it means she's a licensed professional in good standing. She seemed knowledgeable and carried herself well. Most importantly, she had medical knowledge and skill that I did not have, but needed, and, now, have benefited from.
I can give you another example. I bought some new wheels for my bike. I'm not very mechanically inclined. I didn't feel comfortable putting the brake rotors on, because if I do that wrong, very bad things can happen as a result. I brought the wheels into a shop and paid a mechanic to set them up for me. The guy who did it was a professional, who's done this job hundreds of times before. I trusted him on that basis. I can stop when I want to.
This came up in a rock climbing discussion once, we were talking about how we trust our gear: if I took my car in and the mechanic told me I need a new seat belt, I wouldn't hesitate to have a new one put in. But that's because the risk of really needing a new seat belt and not getting one is a lot worse than the risk of getting fleeced.0 -
When the professional is lettered and taking in their field of expertise, then yes I will trust them until I see evidence to the contrary. So ask me something accounting related, and theres a pretty good chance I know the correct answer. Also, if I don't, I won't try to *kitten* you and I will say I don't. But ask me about other topics and I'm no more credible than anyone else.
Trouble is, too many of these "professionals" are not experts in their field, have little formal education or experience and don't know when to say they don't know. So you get advice on things they shouldn't be discussing, but they both sound and look credible. And, not knowing any better, you end up taking their dumb advice.
So I trust professionals in their profession. But not outside of it.3 -
so are professional and expert synonomous with each other - or can you be a professional/not an expert; or expert/not a professional?
I think back to a thread a while ago - someone asking about online workouts - and stated that they weren't interested in FitnessBlender because there was no evidence of them being professionals...and yet - the workout/advice they give is more science based than a lot of stuff I see other professionals touting0 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »When the professional is lettered and taking in their field of expertise, then yes I will trust them until I see evidence to the contrary.
I've learned the hard way that you have to check everything. One would think a pediatrician would know how much a child should grow at a given age...well, many of them don't. Our pediatrician thought it was perfectly fine for my son, at age 4, to have grown only 1 1/4" in a whole year, because "you and your husband aren't tall." I'm just over average, hubby slightly under, while the kid was underneath the lowest line on the growth chart and still dropping. Doc thought 3/4" was fine at age 7 also, instead of the normal 2" to 2.5" or more. He delayed us 5 years on getting a medical problem treated that he'd missed.0 -
Professionals who spent years studying to become professional has a weightier say than the average joe, but the average person should also have the ability to research other professional opinions and to think for themselves as well. Try using logic over blind faith in another's educated opinion..
Case in point.. look at all the "former" fads from "professionals" that are now deemed myths. 50 years ago it was a doctors professional opinion that tonsils should come out before they caused any problems. Slowly dentist are beginning to see that not all wisdom teeth require pulling.. (keep in mind that before these were a thing, both were EXTREMELY rare to do and guess what? People survived!)
Remember when floride was good?
I don't know what your friends diet is like or whether her trainer is a quack, or if her weight is muscle or water .. maybe she is about to get the monthly visit? But I think she needs to see a much greater gain before she completely discounts the trainers advice to her. You may not like she doesn't do her own research, but 2 lbs is hardly enough to worry about diet yet.2
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