Question regarding net carbs
Alatariel75
Posts: 18,207 Member
So I have a net carb question. A lot of people ask for the food diary to list net carbs, which presumably is total carbs for the day minus fiber.
I remember when WW started taking fiber into account with Points calculations, and foods with higher fiber had lower Points - an example of the use of net carbs.
However, at that time, it was made very clear to members that net carbs only counted when the fiber was in the same food as the carbs - it had to do with the way the carbs were digested, or somesuch. I'm not clear on the details.
Importantly, the point was made that you couldn't lower the Points of a food by adding fiber - a bag of gummy bears was still going to be a buttload of carbs, even if you did wash them down with a big glass of Metamucil. On a less "strawman" example, the carbs from eating a couple of slices of white bread at breakfast weren't going to be reduced by having a cup of lima beans at lunch.
So are the calls for a net carb calculation overly simplified into uselessness?
Can someone call themselves keto or low carb if they eat a heap of carbs but chase it with half a jar of Benefiber? Would they stay in ketosis? Can you go into negative net carbs?
Enquiring minds want to know.
I remember when WW started taking fiber into account with Points calculations, and foods with higher fiber had lower Points - an example of the use of net carbs.
However, at that time, it was made very clear to members that net carbs only counted when the fiber was in the same food as the carbs - it had to do with the way the carbs were digested, or somesuch. I'm not clear on the details.
Importantly, the point was made that you couldn't lower the Points of a food by adding fiber - a bag of gummy bears was still going to be a buttload of carbs, even if you did wash them down with a big glass of Metamucil. On a less "strawman" example, the carbs from eating a couple of slices of white bread at breakfast weren't going to be reduced by having a cup of lima beans at lunch.
So are the calls for a net carb calculation overly simplified into uselessness?
Can someone call themselves keto or low carb if they eat a heap of carbs but chase it with half a jar of Benefiber? Would they stay in ketosis? Can you go into negative net carbs?
Enquiring minds want to know.
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Replies
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Fiber doesn't subtract carbs - it just doesn't count AS carbs.
Therefore, if you eat something like almonds (6g carbs, 3g fiber), 3 grams of that will count as actual carbs in your body. 3 grams of fiber will go through your body undigested.
That's not the same thing as eating a piece of candy with 6g carbs, then drinking 3g of Metamucil. Here, all 6g of sugar from the candy will count. The Metamucil will just help you poop it out faster.2 -
Fiber doesn't subtract carbs - it just doesn't count AS carbs.
Therefore, if you eat something like almonds (6g carbs, 3g fiber), 3 grams of that will count as actual carbs in your body. 3 grams of fiber will go through your body undigested.
That's not the same thing as eating a piece of candy with 6g carbs, then drinking 3g of Metamucil. Here, all 6g of sugar from the candy will count. The Metamucil will just help you poop it out faster.
Cool, that's what I thought. So what does that say for the net carb calculation that people are wanting? It would only be useful for individual items and not for end of day totals, correct?0 -
Yes it would be useful for individual items, which I don't think would be a problem as nutrients/macros are added up for each individual item added to the diary. It would then give you a total net carbs from all those individual entries at the end of the day or when you finish your diary. I think it would be a great thing to have to help control diabetes.0
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Yes it would be useful for individual items, which I don't think would be a problem as nutrients/macros are added up for each individual item added to the diary. It would then give you a total net carbs from all those individual entries at the end of the day or when you finish your diary. I think it would be a great thing to have to help control diabetes.
Ok, that makes sense. I think my query arose from seeing, a number of times, posters tell others to just subtract their fiber total from their carb total for their net carbs and I thought that would cause an issue.0 -
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Look_Its_Kriss wrote: »I think it would make a useful tool for diabetics mostly since insulin users would be taking their units based on net carbs.. however vegetables don't count so i guess the numbers would still technically be inaccurate for them even if MFP displayed that information
Veggies don't count for diabetics, or for net carb counters?0 -
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Look_Its_Kriss wrote: »Diabetics.. Like.. when i took insulin, veggies never were included in the carbs because the fiber in them was usually almost the same as the carbs.. the couple of actual carbs they were worth was never included in my totals when i would take my insulin.
Ah ok, that makes sense.0 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »Can someone call themselves keto or low carb if they eat a heap of carbs but chase it with half a jar of Benefiber? Would they stay in ketosis? Can you go into negative net carbs?
Ah, no, they can't call themselves keto or low carb because gummy bears and Benefiber are not whole foods.
Having said that, fiber does slow down the absorption of carbs into your system, so your blood sugars won't spike as high if the fiber is not included. Fiber also helps with the absorption of fat, I think. It's the whole idea behind the glycemic load of foods, so I can see why eating fiber with something not as healthy could achieve the same goal, in a way. A tip I received from several sources that I trust was to eat some almonds before taking a less than ideal snack like chocolate or a piece of cake for exactly the same reasons.
As for WW, I knew a leader who worked there when they began the points program in 1999 or 2000 (approx?), and WW wasn't so strict about counting the grams of fiber. They accounted for the extra fiber in foods like beans and gave a lower points count, which a lot of members took advantage of. Then WW did the switch and limited counting the # of grams of fiber to 4. I don't know why WW did that, but cynical me thinks it was hurting their business model when upping the fiber count helped people lose weight faster. Why teach people to believe that eating 1 cup of beans is more filling than 1 cup of pasta for the same points count?
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blueeyetea wrote: »Alatariel75 wrote: »Can someone call themselves keto or low carb if they eat a heap of carbs but chase it with half a jar of Benefiber? Would they stay in ketosis? Can you go into negative net carbs?
Ah, no, they can't call themselves keto or low carb because gummy bears and Benefiber are not whole foods.
Having said that, fiber does slow down the absorption of carbs into your system, so your blood sugars won't spike as high if the fiber is not included. Fiber also helps with the absorption of fat, I think. It's the whole idea behind the glycemic load of foods, so I can see why eating fiber with something not as healthy could achieve the same goal, in a way. A tip I received from several sources that I trust was to eat some almonds before taking a less than ideal snack like chocolate or a piece of cake for exactly the same reasons.
As for WW, I knew a leader who worked there when they began the points program in 1999 or 2000 (approx?), and WW wasn't so strict about counting the grams of fiber. They accounted for the extra fiber in foods like beans and gave a lower points count, which a lot of members took advantage of. Then WW did the switch and limited counting the # of grams of fiber to 4. I don't know why WW did that, but cynical me thinks it was hurting their business model when upping the fiber count helped people lose weight faster. Why teach people to believe that eating 1 cup of beans is more filling than 1 cup of pasta for the same points count?
I wasn't aware that there was a requirement for either keto or low carb that the food be whole foods? I thought it simply involved a particular macro distribution. A vast number of keto and low carbers I have interacted with certainly don't stick to whole foods.
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I like to explain it like this. A can of diet coke does not cancel out a block of chocolate. You still ate the block of chocolate.0
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EbonyDahlia wrote: »I like to explain it like this. A can of diet coke does not cancel out a block of chocolate. You still ate the block of chocolate.
But there's no fiber in Diet Coke?
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Alatariel75 wrote: »EbonyDahlia wrote: »I like to explain it like this. A can of diet coke does not cancel out a block of chocolate. You still ate the block of chocolate.
But there's no fiber in Diet Coke?
lol Ah... so funny.
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Coca Cola Plus?? Ewwww.Look_Its_Kriss wrote: »Diabetics.. Like.. when i took insulin, veggies never were included in the carbs because the fiber in them was usually almost the same as the carbs.. the couple of actual carbs they were worth was never included in my totals when i would take my insulin.
I don't believe that is true for all diabetics. Fibre will impact them all differently. Some may be able to go off net carbs but others will need to go closer to total carbs. Sugar alcohols also cause a lot of variation.0 -
Yes it would be useful for individual items, which I don't think would be a problem as nutrients/macros are added up for each individual item added to the diary. It would then give you a total net carbs from all those individual entries at the end of the day or when you finish your diary. I think it would be a great thing to have to help control diabetes.
I am diabetic and asked my Dr. about this (she is a certified diabetic educator). Diabetics should NOT count net carbs unless they are on insulin. The fiber in food slows the absorption of the glucose, but all 100 grams of it still gets absorbed no matter how much fiber is in there. This slowed absorption is why those on insulin should check both total carbs and net carbs because it can factor in how much insulin is needed. For those diabetics controlling it with diet and exercise total carbs is the number to follow.0 -
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Yes it would be useful for individual items, which I don't think would be a problem as nutrients/macros are added up for each individual item added to the diary. It would then give you a total net carbs from all those individual entries at the end of the day or when you finish your diary. I think it would be a great thing to have to help control diabetes.
I am diabetic and asked my Dr. about this (she is a certified diabetic educator). Diabetics should NOT count net carbs unless they are on insulin. The fiber in food slows the absorption of the glucose, but all 100 grams of it still gets absorbed no matter how much fiber is in there. This slowed absorption is why those on insulin should check both total carbs and net carbs because it can factor in how much insulin is needed. For those diabetics controlling it with diet and exercise total carbs is the number to follow.
Sounds like it may vary on when a person took their diabetes education class, when diagnosed and what area one is in. Even classes within the US are taught differently on basic facts so it can very confusing.
When I first took the class we were taught anything 5+ in fiber was subtracted out of the carbs, I'm not an insulin user. I took a refresher class from the same location (same person) and the education had changed from the ADA (American Diabetes Association) to no longer use the former method. Had I not taken a refresher class I would only know the information taught to me back in the earlier class. New studies over the years have brought new information.
Regarding eating 2 foods then subtracting the fiber from the carbs... wow, I had no idea there were ppl doing that!
That doesn't register in my brain... but neither does Coke with added Fiber! :laugh:0 -
Hearts_2015 wrote: »Yes it would be useful for individual items, which I don't think would be a problem as nutrients/macros are added up for each individual item added to the diary. It would then give you a total net carbs from all those individual entries at the end of the day or when you finish your diary. I think it would be a great thing to have to help control diabetes.
I am diabetic and asked my Dr. about this (she is a certified diabetic educator). Diabetics should NOT count net carbs unless they are on insulin. The fiber in food slows the absorption of the glucose, but all 100 grams of it still gets absorbed no matter how much fiber is in there. This slowed absorption is why those on insulin should check both total carbs and net carbs because it can factor in how much insulin is needed. For those diabetics controlling it with diet and exercise total carbs is the number to follow.
Sounds like it may vary on when a person took their diabetes education class, when diagnosed and what area one is in. Even classes within the US are taught differently on basic facts so it can very confusing.
When I first took the class we were taught anything 5+ in fiber was subtracted out of the carbs, I'm not an insulin user. I took a refresher class from the same location (same person) and the education had changed from the ADA (American Diabetes Association) to no longer use the former method. Had I not taken a refresher class I would only know the information taught to me back in the earlier class. New studies over the years have brought new information.
Regarding eating 2 foods then subtracting the fiber from the carbs... wow, I had no idea there were ppl doing that!
That doesn't register in my brain... but neither does Coke with added Fiber! :laugh:
I never took the class. I did my reading and asked her questions. The one about net carbs was asked about a year ago. She is my PCP so I see her a couple of time a year and she sits and listens and answers all my questions (even the dumb ones). Often, what I ask are questions that people have brought up on MFP which is why I asked about net carbs. Never heard of it until I started on MFP0 -
If it was included, I hope it would be as a separate column, not just replacing carbs. Because apparently the UK and some other countries already discount fiber from the carbs totals on packaging anyway and if you ate a lot of fiber, you might end up accidentally discounting a shedload of calories0
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