Fact, Opinion, and Belief

taso42_DELETED
taso42_DELETED Posts: 3,394 Member
edited September 30 in Health and Weight Loss
A very common pattern I see around here is people's opinions and beliefs being tossed around as if they were facts. We all have opinions and beliefs. It's perfectly human. Sometimes opinions and beliefs happen to be facts, but not always.

Here is an example fact: 1 lb of muscle weighs the same of 1 lb of fat.

Here is an example opinion: If you skip breakfast you will gain weight.

Here is an example belief: I can run for 10 miles.

When it comes to weight loss and fitness, there is a ton of misinformation floating around. The basic facts are pretty simple and can probably fit on one written page; whereas the misinformation is endless and can fill volumes.

I don't really know why I'm writing this. I suppose it's kind of a rant. I get very frustrated when I see people writing facts and then others responding with "that's just your opinion; every body is different". I get very frustrated when I see someone writing an opinion or belief, then someone replies with facts to refute the opinion, but gets scolded by other members because "we should be nice and supportive". Correcting misinformation is not the same thing as being unkind or unsupportive. On the contrary - taking the time to respond and correct somebody IS helpful. It's part of the learning process.

I won't get into any specifics here because I don't want this to turn into yet another debate thread. But let me just say that some of the most heated debate happens between people arguing over simple math. 2 + 2 = 4, no matter how strongly some might disbelieve.
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Replies

  • Heather75
    Heather75 Posts: 3,386 Member
    Huh. Your opinion.

    Thanks for posting this. I sincerely hope it does some good.
  • erickirb
    erickirb Posts: 12,294 Member
    We need a like button. I agree with you.
  • SarahofTwins
    SarahofTwins Posts: 1,169 Member
    We need a like button. I agree with you.

    Indeed
  • Avalonis
    Avalonis Posts: 1,540 Member
    Agreed as well.

    Facts tend to be backed up by evidence. Opinion and beliefs usually arent.
  • mrmarius
    mrmarius Posts: 1,802 Member
    true true.. only thing is you have so many people here and alot of times when something works for one person they mistakenly believe its the end all be all. So while facts are facts its the little nuances that get confused so for example since i lost 25 lbs during first round of p90x i could be tempted to say that its the thing that will work for everyone but we know thats not true because people have different schedules fitness levels ailments etc.... i said all that to say dont let it get you worked up too much
  • splashwags
    splashwags Posts: 262 Member
    Ditto
  • FrenchMob
    FrenchMob Posts: 1,167 Member
    I've been saying this for a long time here, but like you said, you get criticized for being mean and unsupportive so I just stopped posting in those kind of threads. Let them learn the hard way.

    Thanks for posting.
  • MrsCon40
    MrsCon40 Posts: 2,351 Member
    Intellegent, well thought and logical.... let the ****-storm ensue!
  • jujubean1992
    jujubean1992 Posts: 462 Member
    We need a like button. I agree with you.

    Indeed

    defiantly
  • anubis609
    anubis609 Posts: 3,966 Member
    My brotha!
  • crazymama2two
    crazymama2two Posts: 867
    wait, wait, wait...hold on a second...1 lb of muscle is the same as 1 lb of fat? ;D

    where did i put my agree on this thread button anyways?
  • petchonka82
    petchonka82 Posts: 156
    and this is why we <3 you Taso! **LIKE**
  • Andythefitfamilyman
    Andythefitfamilyman Posts: 420
    hey opinions are like buttholes.......
  • k8edge
    k8edge Posts: 380
    How truly unsuporative of you!!!!




    pause...




    HAHAHA - Just kidding... It may be my opinion that I truly and wholeheartidly agree with your facts!




    Thank you for saying what others are thinking...
  • Sublog
    Sublog Posts: 1,296 Member
    A very common pattern I see around here is people's opinions and beliefs being tossed around as if they were facts. We all have opinions and beliefs. It's perfectly human. Sometimes opinions and beliefs happen to be facts, but not always.

    Here is an example fact: 1 lb of muscle weighs the same of 1 lb of fat.

    Here is an example opinion: If you skip breakfast you will gain weight.

    Here is an example belief: I can run for 10 miles.

    When it comes to weight loss and fitness, there is a ton of misinformation floating around. The basic facts are pretty simple and can probably fit on one written page; whereas the misinformation is endless and can fill volumes.

    I don't really know why I'm writing this. I suppose it's kind of a rant. I get very frustrated when I see people writing facts and then others responding with "that's just your opinion; every body is different". I get very frustrated when I see someone writing an opinion or belief, then someone replies with facts to refute the opinion, but gets scolded by other members because "we should be nice and supportive". Correcting misinformation is not the same thing as being unkind or unsupportive. On the contrary - taking the time to respond and correct somebody IS helpful. It's part of the learning process.

    I won't get into any specifics here because I don't want this to turn into yet another debate thread. But let me just say that some of the most heated debate happens between people arguing over simple math. 2 + 2 = 4, no matter how strongly some might disbelieve.

    Amen.. reminds me of the thread yesterday where I owned the OP with all of these pub med studies detailing the countless ways they were wrong and was passing weak personal/correlative evidence as fact. Only to be told by the OP I was trolling. LOL

    There are SO many people here spouting off bro-science as fact. It's sad, really. I do read some really good posts mixed in, but I can see why so many people are confused with the facts.

    Better than I like button, we need a reputation system.
  • bunchesonothing
    bunchesonothing Posts: 1,015 Member
    Agreed! Very well written.
  • UpToAnyCool
    UpToAnyCool Posts: 1,673
    AYYYYYY! exactamundo - thanks for the reminder.
  • gillianjoon
    gillianjoon Posts: 96 Member
    :happy: Presses "Agreed button"
  • Mindful_Trent
    Mindful_Trent Posts: 3,954 Member
    While I totally agree with this, there is a problem in that even the "expert" community isn't in agreement over what the facts are on some (many?) topics. Most of us consider peer-reviewed, replicable, well-designed studies to be the standard for establishing true facts, but there are so many things that are passed on as facts by the "expert" community (doctors, trainers, nutritionists, etc.) even though there is now evidence suggesting that long-held facts aren't really facts! People will find studies and think they're acceptable and others will suggest otherwise. I do think that about 90% of people should be more choosy about where and how they obtain their information, but even then it's not at all black and white, and often times you get people arguing and both sides truly believe they are promoting the "facts". :ohwell:
  • PeachyKeene
    PeachyKeene Posts: 1,645 Member
    While I totally agree with this, there is a problem in that even the "expert" community isn't in agreement over what the facts are on some (many?) topics. Most of us consider peer-reviewed, replicable, well-designed studies to be the standard for establishing true facts, but there are so many things that are passed on as facts by the "expert" community (doctors, trainers, nutritionists, etc.) even though there is now evidence suggesting that long-held facts aren't really facts! People will find studies and think they're acceptable and others will suggest otherwise. I do think that about 90% of people should be more choosy about where and how they obtain their information, but even then it's not at all black and white, and often times you get people arguing and both sides truly believe they are promoting the "facts". :ohwell:

    This^^ this is so true.
  • CRody44
    CRody44 Posts: 776 Member
    I’m new to any kind of health, eating or exercising, and am not qualified to give anyone advise about these matters, however, I do chime in at times with what I am doing or what has worked for me. I find that a lot of people are too lazy, or have never heard of Google, to do any research about their problem/condition, and I cringe to think that they will blindly accept the “advice” of some of the pseudo health/fitness experts.
  • muth3rluvx2
    muth3rluvx2 Posts: 1,156 Member
    While I totally agree with this, there is a problem in that even the "expert" community isn't in agreement over what the facts are on some (many?) topics. Most of us consider peer-reviewed, replicable, well-designed studies to be the standard for establishing true facts, but there are so many things that are passed on as facts by the "expert" community (doctors, trainers, nutritionists, etc.) even though there is now evidence suggesting that long-held facts aren't really facts! People will find studies and think they're acceptable and others will suggest otherwise. I do think that about 90% of people should be more choosy about where and how they obtain their information, but even then it's not at all black and white, and often times you get people arguing and both sides truly believe they are promoting the "facts". :ohwell:

    This^^ this is so true.

    Yep.. agreed.

    I'll bet there's new debate on why there's muscle soreness and the role of lactic acid, for example. New studies suggest any lactic acid soreness is gone within something like 4 hours (forgive me, my recall isnt' terribly precise); but it's been a long held "fact" that lactic acid causes muscle soreness. Bananas don't have as much potassium as people think (I looked it up and was sorely disappointed) and spinach doesn't have as much iron as Popeye would like for you to believe. Lastly, new articles would suggest that calories are not precise and a unit of heat which is converted to energy and many many many factors are implicated in how many calories an individual needs, burns and at what rate. Oh, and it's never *really* been studied in people but rather the rate of burn in other materials such as fruits and vegetables and THAT information has been applied to people - much like the effects of new drugs being found in rodents and those associated findings being somewhat assumed for humans. Generally, more rodents are studied adn over a longer period of time than human trials are conducted. Rodents don't live as long so longitudinal studies are easier and less expensive. Some of what I've read would strongly indicate that our information on how calories work in mammals is actually very limited... but then, I didn't confirm the date on those articles and I don't have them any more so I kinda' suck that way.

    So... what is fact again?

    <3 u taso! :D You know I just have to put in my coffee stirrer... just because. MUAH!
  • pnwgirl1963
    pnwgirl1963 Posts: 14 Member
    Ha ha! Are you writing fact or is this your opinion:) Sorry I couldn't resist.

    Where is the LIKE button on this thing? Keep up the good work!

    :flowerforyou:
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member
    While I totally agree with this, there is a problem in that even the "expert" community isn't in agreement over what the facts are on some (many?) topics. Most of us consider peer-reviewed, replicable, well-designed studies to be the standard for establishing true facts, but there are so many things that are passed on as facts by the "expert" community (doctors, trainers, nutritionists, etc.) even though there is now evidence suggesting that long-held facts aren't really facts! People will find studies and think they're acceptable and others will suggest otherwise. I do think that about 90% of people should be more choosy about where and how they obtain their information, but even then it's not at all black and white, and often times you get people arguing and both sides truly believe they are promoting the "facts". :ohwell:

    The problem with a lot of this is that medical or scientific studies rarely provide any fact other than the individual study results. Those results, however, may suggest a truth. When enough studies suggest the same truth, that truth may become accepted as fact. If a future study's results suggest an opposite or alternative truth, this does not mean that original study(s) were wrong or have been "debunked". It simply means that more study is needed to get to the real truth.
  • atomdraco
    atomdraco Posts: 1,083 Member
    well said!
  • healthyjen342
    healthyjen342 Posts: 1,435 Member
    WELL PUT!
  • CommittohealthCHANGED
    CommittohealthCHANGED Posts: 436 Member
    I totally agree with you.:tongue:
  • Schwiggity
    Schwiggity Posts: 1,449 Member
    35d0tpg.jpg
  • muth3rluvx2
    muth3rluvx2 Posts: 1,156 Member
    While I totally agree with this, there is a problem in that even the "expert" community isn't in agreement over what the facts are on some (many?) topics. Most of us consider peer-reviewed, replicable, well-designed studies to be the standard for establishing true facts, but there are so many things that are passed on as facts by the "expert" community (doctors, trainers, nutritionists, etc.) even though there is now evidence suggesting that long-held facts aren't really facts! People will find studies and think they're acceptable and others will suggest otherwise. I do think that about 90% of people should be more choosy about where and how they obtain their information, but even then it's not at all black and white, and often times you get people arguing and both sides truly believe they are promoting the "facts". :ohwell:

    The problem with a lot of this is that medical or scientific studies rarely provide any fact other than the individual study results. Those results, however, may suggest a truth. When enough studies suggest the same truth, that truth may become accepted as fact. If a future study's results suggest an opposite or alternative truth, this does not mean that original study(s) were wrong or have been "debunked". It simply means that more study is needed to get to the real truth.

    I think the overall point is that facts can, do and will change and we all need to be flexible to what we assume to be universally true. There are no universal truths except that there are no universal truths. LOL ;)
  • taso42_DELETED
    taso42_DELETED Posts: 3,394 Member
    Well, we have to make do with the pool of knowledge we have in the present. Sure, over time, certain things may change, but the fundamentals will probably hold true. There's no reason to reject the current "facts" just because they might change in the future. This to me looks like an example of one's belief-system interfering with progress.

    A long time ago, I would allow myself to go to bed hungry. It was my (wrong) belief that eating before bed was a bad idea, so I'd be better off going to bed hungry than eating. Eventually I learned that eating right before bed is not an issue, so I changed my beliefs and my habits.

    What if I refused to change? What if my belief that "eating before bed is bad" was so strong, that it trumped the facts? I could have rationalized it by saying, "well, facts can change over time. maybe in the future they'll tell us that eating before bed is bad again". Well, I would just be impeding my progress - I would likely lose lean muscle mass, and feel hungry and irritable.

    Belief is a hugely powerful force. When we believe in ourselves, we succeed. But the sword cuts both ways. When we hold on to incorrect or harmful beliefs, we can seriously impede our progress.
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