Cleanse question
jnananamaste
Posts: 72 Member
Ok now I know this is a frequently discussed topic to the point of over-discussion...if my question has been asked, please be kind...
When I walk on the treadmill, I often watch documentaries about nutrition &/or exercise. I've heard several seemingly intelligent folks discuss the benefits of cleansing for overall health, particularly when losing weight with the hope of improving health. They've described cleansing to be drinking lots of water in the morning, eating chai seeds, eating nutritionally dense "super foods", ACV, or incorporating some juicing or increasing raw food intake.
I know CICO is a big deal on MFP, and I appreciate that. The strong CICO focus has helped me significantly. But I've seen folks basically jump right on any mention of cleansing like it's a total joke, or just a really, really bad idea. It seems to make sense to me that it could improve health and certainly can't hurt. I get that CICO = weight loss, period. But why shut someone down who wants to do CICO + cleansing or CICO + superfoods, etc. It would still = weight loss. I'm not saying EVERYONE should do these things, but I'd like to hear the case (or be shown the link to this conversation already happened, if you have that available lol), why some MFPers seem to claim NO ONE should bother with this. At least that's the vibe I've gotten...maybe I've misunderstood...
When I walk on the treadmill, I often watch documentaries about nutrition &/or exercise. I've heard several seemingly intelligent folks discuss the benefits of cleansing for overall health, particularly when losing weight with the hope of improving health. They've described cleansing to be drinking lots of water in the morning, eating chai seeds, eating nutritionally dense "super foods", ACV, or incorporating some juicing or increasing raw food intake.
I know CICO is a big deal on MFP, and I appreciate that. The strong CICO focus has helped me significantly. But I've seen folks basically jump right on any mention of cleansing like it's a total joke, or just a really, really bad idea. It seems to make sense to me that it could improve health and certainly can't hurt. I get that CICO = weight loss, period. But why shut someone down who wants to do CICO + cleansing or CICO + superfoods, etc. It would still = weight loss. I'm not saying EVERYONE should do these things, but I'd like to hear the case (or be shown the link to this conversation already happened, if you have that available lol), why some MFPers seem to claim NO ONE should bother with this. At least that's the vibe I've gotten...maybe I've misunderstood...
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Replies
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You do not need to detox or cleanse. These are nothing more than gimmicks. Our liver does all that stuff for us, free of charge.3
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Lillymoo01 wrote: »You do not need to detox or cleanse. These are nothing more than gimmicks. Our liver does all that stuff for us, free of charge.
I understand that. However, these nutrition folks say that if you are overweight and losing weight, you are putting a lot of strain on your liver and eating these foods with various healthy characteristics can assist in that process.
I also disagree with the claim that it costs anything to cleanse. I have to buy groceries every week. I can buy the fruits and veggies or processed stuff, but either way I have to eat something, which means I have to buy something.1 -
Don't watch those documentaries, most are agenda driven.5
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There have been no scientific studies that show "cleanses" actually remove toxins from the human body. And when you ask pro-cleanse people which toxins they're hoping to remove, they can never answer the question. And even if they answered the question with a list of toxins, how are they so sure the toxins are being removed? Are they having regular blood work and urinalysis done?
So it's important to ask yourself: What can drinking vinegar, tea, or cold pressed juice do that our liver and kidneys can't? The answer, according to the scientific community, is: Nothing.
The fact of the matter is this: If your body really needed to be cleansed of toxins, doctors would put you on dialysis. Not a vinegar, juice or tea.
And yes, the vibe you're getting is accurate. Nobody should be wasting money on things that aren't proven to be effective.
ETA: And with regard to "if you are overweight and losing weight, you are putting a lot of strain on your liver," how does eating less strain the liver more?5 -
Do these happen to be free Netflix documentaries? That's your problem right there. Anything can sound reasonable if it is packaged well enough.
First of all read up on the history of these folk cures. Before evidence based Medicine, there were all sorts of theories regarding the origin of disease. A lot of attention was paid to the bowel (perhaps because this was more accessible to the doctor than, say, the liver.)
There are known side effects from repeated purging of the bowels. This includes electrolyte imbalance and deficiency of some micronutrients.
The very "best" a cleanse can offer is not make you any worse.
The one activity that did the most to improve my health (beyond losing significant weight) was cardiovascular exercise. It put pink in my cheeks and a sparkle in my eye. My increased activity added ten years to my life.1 -
Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »Don't watch those documentaries, most are agenda driven.
What's the agenda? Learning and information? I'm not trying to be snarky...I just like to learn and they provide someone's insight who really cares a whole lot about nutrition and health. I don't see how it's any more harmful to consider their opinions than folks on a message board. I mean, they cared enough to put together an entire movie. I'd say it's worth a listen to their perspective...3 -
jnananamaste wrote: »Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »Don't watch those documentaries, most are agenda driven.
What's the agenda? Learning and information? I'm not trying to be snarky...I just like to learn and they provide someone's insight who really cares a whole lot about nutrition and health. I don't see how it's any more harmful to consider their opinions than folks on a message board. I mean, they cared enough to put together an entire movie. I'd say it's worth a listen to their perspective...
If you like to learn, then read the scientific studies and clinical trials about this stuff. Why take the word of documentary filmmakers when you can read the actual science?1 -
Hey if it makes you happy, why not, cannot hurt, like you said. Let me know if you find something that works!
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Well I suppose the thing I come back to is I always feel a heck of a lot better when I eat "healthy" foods, so I don't necessarily need a research study to tell me whether enough ppl felt better or had changes in their blood work v the placebo group, or what have you...
I just do find it puzzling how fiercely folks defend their ability to lose weight eating "whatever they like", which may be a lot of processed junk (which I do, too, so please don't attack me for saying that), but ask what folks think about juices full of nutrients or lots and lots of kale and your wasting your money and there's no scientific evidence to back it up so don't waste your $...where's the study showing how great twinkles are? Why tell someone who likes to drink tea they're wasting their $? I don't get it.4 -
If you like to learn, then read the scientific studies and clinical trials about this stuff. Why take the word of documentary filmmakers when you can read the actual science?
I'm in a scientific field so I'm no stranger to research...but I just like to get information from various sources and think it over. Take a bit from here and try it...a bit from there...(for myself, not when billing clients lol)...
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I mean, I feel better eating healthy foods too (most probably do). I've been doing so for at least 10 years. Eating a nutritious and balanced diet is good for our health and overall well being and when we're healthy, we feel better.
But this thread is about cleanses and I'm positive that my healthy diet isn't "cleansing" anything.
ETA: As someone in scientific field, you should know that sources, quality research, peer review, and independent verification matter. You 'd probably be well served if you used your scientific mind to dig deeper than documentaries you find on Netflix.3 -
It's the eternal quest for the magic elixir that stirs me up. I've lost a significant amount of weight. I know how it happened. Check out some of the veterans here who insist that weight can be lost eating regular food. That's the message. No pill, cleanse, or superfood will make as much an impression as controlling your intake.
I also eat lots of great fruits and vegetables. I rarely have any fatty gravy or fatty anything except chocolate and cheese. Because, chocolate and cheese.
Lunch today was stir fry Bok Choy and salmon. And yes, this lovely balanced meal made me happy inside and out. But I won't reach my goals by eating Bok Choy and salmon every day. Nor will I get healthier by purging that meal prematurely.1 -
jnananamaste wrote: »Well I suppose the thing I come back to is I always feel a heck of a lot better when I eat "healthy" foods, so I don't necessarily need a research study to tell me whether enough ppl felt better or had changes in their blood work v the placebo group, or what have you...
I just do find it puzzling how fiercely folks defend their ability to lose weight eating "whatever they like", which may be a lot of processed junk (which I do, too, so please don't attack me for saying that), but ask what folks think about juices full of nutrients or lots and lots of kale and your wasting your money and there's no scientific evidence to back it up so don't waste your $...where's the study showing how great twinkles are? Why tell someone who likes to drink tea they're wasting their $? I don't get it.
Well, the question might be - what are you expecting the juice and kale to do? If your answer is "provide nutrients for optimal functioning of the body" you'll get plenty of agreement here. If your answer is "remove toxins and give the liver and kidneys a rest", not so much.1 -
Eating veggies and high quality protein can help your liver. Here's a picture of required nutrients for the liver.
https://greatplainslaboratory.com/gpl-blog-source/2016/6/6/your-bodys-detoxification-pathways0 -
CafeRacer808 wrote: »I mean, I feel better eating healthy foods too (most probably do). I've been doing so for at least 10 years. Eating a nutritious and balanced diet is good for our health and overall well being and when we're healthy, we feel better.
But this thread is about cleanses and I'm positive that my healthy diet isn't "cleansing" anything.
ETA: As someone in scientific field, you should know that sources, quality research, peer review, and independent verification matter. You 'd probably be well served if you used your scientific mind to dig deeper than documentaries you find on Netflix.
Eh, we can't be at work all the time! I already listen to NPR on my commute lol. And my kids basically only watch PBS sans commercials...I refuse to apologize for watching documentaries lol1 -
I'm not for cleanses, but if a week of diuresis or diarrhoea helps with a psychological reset, meh - go for it.
You weigh less because you wee'd more.
Or because your digestive tract thoroughly empty.
You might feel a little slimmer, or refreshed by a new routine or added vitamins.
If this makes a person feel good and helps them along their journey - cool.
My personal opinion is a lot of the *cleanse* ideology feeds into to ritualistic nature of humans.
................,,,
As far as liver *strain* in weight loss, a fatty liver is already not working optimally, but the process of burning - for want of a different word - fat certainly requires the liver to process the glycerol portion of the triglycerides released from adipose tissue I guess creates more activity. Not really a strain for a person with normal liver function but I wonder if this is the base of that idea? Who knows.1 -
It's the eternal quest for the magic elixir that stirs me up. I've lost a significant amount of weight. I know how it happened. Check out some of the veterans here who insist that weight can be lost eating regular food. That's the message. No pill, cleanse, or superfood will make as much an impression as controlling your intake.
I also eat lots of great fruits and vegetables. I rarely have any fatty gravy or fatty anything except chocolate and cheese. Because, chocolate and cheese.
Lunch today was stir fry Bok Choy and salmon. And yes, this lovely balanced meal made me happy inside and out. But I won't reach my goals by eating Bok Choy and salmon every day. Nor will I get healthier by purging that meal prematurely.
The magic elixir comment made sense to me...thank you! That helped me see the other side.
I think lots of people don't get the "I usually eat healthy" message (not from you specifically, but MFP as a whole) - they get the first part about "cleanses" are so terrible, eat whatever you want part...which makes my mind go to chips, and ice cream, followed by chips. Nom nom.
I also think the definition of cleanse may be different for people (there's probably a standard definition, but I mean people's interpretation). The interpretation I get of most cleanse recommendations is something to the effect of "eat super nutritionally dense foods as much as you can because it's good for your body". I disregard the "drink this magic herbal tea for 10 days and eat lemons between servings of tea" types of crazy stuff as a whole level beyond "cleanse" and in the realm of "never - that's crazy". Maybe the 2nd example is more of what most people interpret cleanse to mean.2 -
I do like documentaries myself, this one is my favorite so far.
https://youtu.be/bJsZ08582To
Much better bang for your buck, so to speak.0 -
TheDevastator wrote: »Eating veggies and high quality protein can help your liver. Here's a picture of required nutrients for the liver.
https://greatplainslaboratory.com/gpl-blog-source/2016/6/6/your-bodys-detoxification-pathways
Thanks!
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The liver responses make sense, thx.0
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The problem with cleanses is multi part.
1. They're often very low calorie. While this isn't an issue for a single day when you eat very low calorie for multiple days at a time your body has to start burning lean tissue to make up for the missing calories. There's a limit to the amount of calories from fat your body can use, these cleanses surpass that 90% of the time.
2. They are often low protein. Protein is important to preserve lean mass. Combine low protein with very low calorie and you have a recipe for muscle loss. Muscle loss results in a lower BMR, which results in yo-yo dieting.
3. They're usually low fiber. If they really wanted to cleanse the body it would have to have adequate fiber. Fiber is what helps clean out your intestines. Just drinking a bunch of liquids, or even worse adding a laxative, would actually cause more harm than good in your intestines because you are more likely to cause a bacterial imbalance.
You also mentioned people who are obese and eating a diet of purely processed foods. Simply adding lean proteins, vegetables, and drinking more water is all that it would take to significantly improve the condition of the digestive tract (including liver and kidneys). Switching to a bunch of teas or pills or ACV is forcing the body to work harder to balance our pH. It's not cleaning, it's worried you are being poisoned.0 -
Just wanted to mention that juicing removes fiber from the veggies or fruit so that's not good.1
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Well, the question might be - what are you expecting the juice and kale to do? If your answer is "provide nutrients for optimal functioning of the body" you'll get plenty of agreement here. If your answer is "remove toxins and give the liver and kidneys a rest", not so much.
The former, not the latter. I guess just don't call it a cleanse and we all agree lol.
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jnananamaste wrote: »
Well, the question might be - what are you expecting the juice and kale to do? If your answer is "provide nutrients for optimal functioning of the body" you'll get plenty of agreement here. If your answer is "remove toxins and give the liver and kidneys a rest", not so much.The former, not the latter. I guess just don't call it a cleanse and we all agree lol.
I can get behind that!1 -
Eating highly nutritious foods like kale, spinach, etc is good for you. Any claims beyond that are just noise. You still aren't cleansing anything by consuming them. Just nourishing yourself well.0
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OP, the reason people here get so up in arms over "cleanses" and "superfoods" is because:
- There is no proof that either are necessary. Your liver and kidneys take care of "cleansing" just fine, and all the nutrients you need are readily available in all the regular fruits, veggies, whole grains, meat and fish you can get on the cheap at your local grocery store.
- So many people struggle to lose weight because they are convinced you need to spend a lot of money, buy special foods or supplements, follow a strict diet, etc to lose weight and they can't stick with it.
- There is this constant issue of people assuming either you eat "clean" or you eat "junk". When the reality is that most people (here on MFP and that I know IRL, at least) who succeed in losing weight and keeping it off, eat a diet with a balance of foundational nutritious foods along with convenience foods and treats.
We just try really hard to fight back against the constant drumbeat of the health & fitness industry that continues to convince people that weight loss is complicated, expensive, and too hard for us huddled masses to do on our own.
And I mean no offense, but documentaries are not education. They are entertainment and marketing. That's why they can win Oscars
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jnananamaste wrote: »I've seen folks basically jump right on any mention of cleansing like it's a total joke, or just a really, really bad idea. It seems to make sense to me that it could improve health and certainly can't hurt. I get that CICO = weight loss, period. But why shut someone down who wants to do CICO + cleansing or CICO + superfoods, etc. It would still = weight loss. I'm not saying EVERYONE should do these things, but I'd like to hear the case (or be shown the link to this conversation already happened, if you have that available lol), why some MFPers seem to claim NO ONE should bother with this.
Because eating less and moving more is hard, but necessary, to lose weight, and the last thing you want to do when you have to do hard and necessary things, is to add unnecessary hard things.4 -
As long as you stay hydrated, your body cleanses itself...unless you have a medical problem.0
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