Weight Loss Theory

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  • A_Rene86
    A_Rene86 Posts: 141 Member
    Hit quote and it won't let me delete, so excuse the blank post!
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,600 Member
    laurimaki wrote: »
    I don't know if there's any science behind this, but I am interested to hear what other people think. Often I read a comment online or a post on MFP with someone complaining about things not keeping them full or mentioning which snacks keep them full longer. My theory is that we are meant to feel hunger, ESPECIALLY if we are trying to lose weight. I mean, if your body adjusts to eating a certain amount of calories when you are at a higher weight, it needs that many calories every day to not feel hungry and sustain said weight. So if you start eating less and feeling hungry, doesn't that hunger mean that you are burning fat? Doesn't that mean there is no food in your stomach being burned up as fuel, so your stomach is shrinking and your body is using fat to sustain itself?

    My theory for losing weight has always been that I have to not eat until I'm truly hungry, and going to bed hungry (NOT starving myself, just being a little hungry) after eating dinner a few hours earlier is not a bad sign, but a sign that my body is noticing there is less food, trying to get me to put more food in there, but instead burns fat to keep my body fueled. Thoughts? It is the one major thing among many minor changes that has worked for me to lose the weight I already have lost, and I know it would work to lose the rest I want to lose...it's just always about the battle of will power isn't it? And being hungry is hard haha.

    I'm doubtful that I would've lost weight if it involved months and months of routine self-denial and reduced pleasure. I'm too weak a character - too self-indulgent, too undisciplined/flaky, too pleasure-motivated for that. Will power is not the sharpest tool in my tool-box, so I try to avoid needing it, when I can.

    I felt hungry when I first established a consistent deficit (losing 2 pounds a week at first), but between adaptation to a new routine, and seeking a different mix of macros, food timing, snack strategies, etc., I was able to find a way to feel pretty satiated and happy until just about time for the next meal. And on those rare occasions when I did feel hungry at an inappropriate time, I learned some tasty snacks I could eat that would tide me over without derailing my daily calorie budget.

    So, no, I don't think hunger is necessary for everyone in order to lose weight. And I don't think science is mostly on your side here, either.

    Sure, eating and hunger are related, but "full stomach" is only one tiny piece. There's all kinds of whacky hormonal and neurological stuff that evolution's put in place, not to mention the social, psychological, and habitual aspects.

    Food has barely even started being digested while it's still in our stomachs, and I believe Cwolfman13 is correct about how it works - your body draws on different energy sources at different times for different reasons, potentially even burning stored fat soon after a solid meal. It's the balance of food & activity over time that determines weight loss.

    Some people probably have stronger hunger feelings than others, or different emotional reactions to them. (After all, people have different physical pain thresholds, differing abilities to handle stress, different tolerances (or enthusiasm, even) for risk, and more.) In some cases, the diaries of people complaining of constant hunger tell a story (nutrient deficiencies, too-aggressive deficit, over-use of not-very-filling foods, expectation of "Biggest Loser" double-digit weekly weight loss, sudden adoption of extreme exercise regimens with no gradual phase-in, etc.).

    If you find hunger motivating and helpful, and it makes you feel like you're doing the right thing . . . go, you!

    Not my idea of an optimal strategy, since it doesn't feel good to me, and I personally found it to be non-essential for success.
  • TimothyFish
    TimothyFish Posts: 4,925 Member
    I tend to agree that a person losing weight should feel hungry.
  • Idle_Moon
    Idle_Moon Posts: 151 Member
    MFP_BodyOvereating2-540x1024.jpg
  • Tacklewasher
    Tacklewasher Posts: 7,122 Member
    I guess I'm different in that I want to eat at scheduled times. I find I get grumpy if I have to miss or delay, whether I feel hungry or not.

    6 am is breakfast
    9:30 ish is a snack
    noon is lunch
    5:30 ish is dinner

    Above that, I might have a protein bar in the afternoon if I feel hungry and something at night if I'm bored (I get this) but the times above are not really tied to hunger, just routine. I don't find I'm hungry when I go to bed though.
  • ActionAnnieJXN
    ActionAnnieJXN Posts: 116 Member
    I think some people can lose weight and not be "hungry", but I do think that for a lot of us being hungry is just what you have to deal with, maybe not every day, maybe eating certain things can minimize it, but yeah, I know for myself I am going to have to be a little hungry. This is why I usually skip breakfast, I like to keep my "hungry" to one time of the time, the time of the day when I'm best able to ignore it and when eating doesn't really seem to help it anyway.

    You practically took the words outta my mouth on this! For some reason, I'm able to cope with hunger better in the morning, so I keep my calories as low as possible until lunch. I drink coffee and water all morning until I have a small (under 200 calories) snack at mid-morning. I basically eat two main meals - lunch and dinner - plus two snacks - mid-morning and bedtime. This seems to work best for me, as long as I am focused and thinking straight, etc. I exercise in the late afternoon and early evening when I'm adequately fed and nourished so I have enough energy to do my thing. It works out well most days.
  • hookandy
    hookandy Posts: 278 Member
    edited February 2017
    The one thing I am finding is that if I hit my numbers I feel OK the day after, if I am a bit short, either by eating too little or working out, then the next day I want to eat the plate as well as the table. Hitting my goal +/- 50 makes the next day soo much easier

    ETA. I am in this for life, so I need to make this my new normal and normal should not include feeling hungry!
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    edited February 2017
    I am not saying you are starving yourself i just think that going to bed with your stomach growling isnt really needed. If my stomach was growling i'd go grab a boiled egg out of my fridge and eat it before bed, the noises my stomach makes have no impact on my weight loss, why go to bed and be unable to focus on sleeping when i could shut that down pretty easy and then sleep.

    Yes. There's hungry and there's HUNGRY.

    One is okay, the other usually backfires.

    It's okay to be a little hungry between meals, and I think this is normal for people who have had normal relationships with food.

    The other is likely a sign that your deficit is too aggressive and that often leads to egregious overeating that seems out of control.

    I also wanted to pick a nit here. Digestion isn't the same thing as your body "burning" food for fuel. It's the first step in the process of food being converted to energy/fat.

    Edit: tagging onto the excellent point StealthHealth made, I want to add that messed up hunger signalling is a real confounder, and I've found this to be especially true the more I try to lean out.
  • endlessfall16
    endlessfall16 Posts: 932 Member
    I tend to agree that a person losing weight should feel hungry.

    +1

    I agree with ^^^ and also with the OP.


    I lost my excess weight most effectively when I felt a couple of times hungry in a day and sometimes going to bed. It's NOT the kind of hunger that causes stomach pain, dizziness or very discomfort. I know this kind of hungry feeling is perfectly fine because I just eat a couple hours before.

    This feeling of hunger doesn't happen neatly before meal time or anything. It can happen after some moderate activity, after eating a sugary donut, after seeing/smelling a good food. Lots of things can activate your hunger sense. It's not just biological.

    The thing is...anyone can always overeat (beyond the body needs) and the body can get conditioned to feel full/ok/natural with that overeating feeling. To lose wt one must eat less than that amount and naturally the body must feel that difference, ie the hunger.

    It's just illogical to me that one feels mostly the same when he is eating his overweight size and when he's eating less.
  • laurimaki
    laurimaki Posts: 47 Member
    I think some people can lose weight and not be "hungry", but I do think that for a lot of us being hungry is just what you have to deal with, maybe not every day, maybe eating certain things can minimize it, but yeah, I know for myself I am going to have to be a little hungry. This is why I usually skip breakfast, I like to keep my "hungry" to one time of the time, the time of the day when I'm best able to ignore it and when eating doesn't really seem to help it anyway.

    You practically took the words outta my mouth on this! For some reason, I'm able to cope with hunger better in the morning, so I keep my calories as low as possible until lunch. I drink coffee and water all morning until I have a small (under 200 calories) snack at mid-morning. I basically eat two main meals - lunch and dinner - plus two snacks - mid-morning and bedtime. This seems to work best for me, as long as I am focused and thinking straight, etc. I exercise in the late afternoon and early evening when I'm adequately fed and nourished so I have enough energy to do my thing. It works out well most days.

    Agree with you both. I wake up at 6:30 and have a glass of water with my vitamins. I eat a high-fiber 150cal granola bar around 8-9am when I first get hit with some hunger. Then I usually eat lunch at my desk while working sometime between 11:30 and 1pm, usually around 500-800 cals. I go for a nice 45 min walk at work on my lunch break rain or shine. If lunch was on the lighter side, I then have another 200ish calorie snack in the afternoon. Dinner around 6-8pm, usually around 800-1000 cals. On a good day I'm around 1800-2200 cals. Has worked for me so far being 300+ pounds. As I've lost weight my need for calories has slowly decreased, thus still feeling hunger everyday. I also am pretty active, usually putting a good hour of activity on top of the 45 minute walk at work every single day. I just need to sustain those good days for longer stretches. My cheat days turn into pigout days and it's the epitome of 2 steps forward, 1 step back. It works...but SLOWWWWLY...Has taken me 8 years to lose the 160 lbs I've lost.
  • Chunkahlunkah
    Chunkahlunkah Posts: 373 Member
    I find appetite--the feeling of being hungry--really interesting. I'd like to learn more about it.

    I don't think appetite is necessarily coordinated with weight maintenance. If it were, you'd expect us to always feel more hungry when losing weight (or in danger of losing weight) and less hungry while gaining. I personally haven't experienced that. I've experienced feeling far more satiated while losing weight (so at a calorie deficit) than at other times while maintaining or gaining weight (so at a calorie equilibrium or surplus).

    For me, what I eat determines my appetite more than how many calories I'm eating. Now, this is of course only to a certain point. If I eat calories below a certain point, I feel very hungry, regardless of what comprises those calories. What I know about myself though, is that if I were to primarily eat the ratio of macros that suppresses my appetite or primarily eat the ratio that increases it, I would end up being either underweight or overweight when eating according to "hunger."

    Besides what we eat contributing to appetite, I think it's possible that people are born with their own appetite level. A range that satisfies them. Some people are lucky and that range results in intuitively eating the calories needed for a healthy weight. Some people are naturally wired to want to eat more than that, making intuitive eating and maintaining a healthy weight more challenging. I think we feel hungry when we eat below that innate preference. I think that innate preferene is a range though, and we can do things that make our appetite drop to the lower end of our range or push it to its higher end, like eating the foods our body personally finds satiating. And becoming obese in itself may increase appetite since it appears to numb the perception of fullness signals.
  • crooked_left_hook
    crooked_left_hook Posts: 364 Member
    Waiting until I am truly hungry isn't an option for me because once that happens it is highly likely that I will get a migraine, and guaranteed that will overeat at my next meal. I just divvy up my calories into 3 meals and 3 snacks and eat them at the same time each day. This way I don't overeat and I don't kill the rest of my day with a migraine. It's also very hard to feel deprived when you eat 6x a day.
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    laurimaki wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »

    If I need 3,000 calories to maintain my weight, I'm going to lose about 1 Lb per week eating 2500 calories despite having food in my stomach at any particular time, etc...I'm not providing enough energy (calories) for my body to maintain and thus I burn body fat (stored energy) to make up the deficiency of energy.

    This is what I'm focused on though...this deficit...do you think that is the origin of hunger? Your body telling you hey, we aren't used to being at a deficit, put more in here? It's worked for me so far. I mean if you use your example...you need 3000 to maintain but are only eating 2500, even with food in your stomach throughout that day, could your body not be hungry? You don't have to have an empty stomach to be hungry. I just feel like that's how my body works personally...less food than what my body is used to=hunger.

    I'm not sure that this is entirely normal. Have you tried playing around with your macros and food choices to increase satiety?

    Before that, though, what kind of hunger are we talking about here -- is it hedonic hunger? Wanting to eat for the pleasure of eating, or is it true hunger? Is it constant, or just before you're due to eat?

    Lastly, how close are you to goal?

    I worry about the sustainability of your approach here.
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    KT6377 wrote: »
    Waiting until I am truly hungry isn't an option for me because once that happens it is highly likely that I will get a migraine, and guaranteed that will overeat at my next meal. I just divvy up my calories into 3 meals and 3 snacks and eat them at the same time each day. This way I don't overeat and I don't kill the rest of my day with a migraine. It's also very hard to feel deprived when you eat 6x a day.

    Same here. Migraineurs dance with the devil playing that game.

    I have found I can delay breakfast and just drink some milky tea without consequence (this is my natural appetite pattern), but when I'm close to the end of my botox cycle, I need to eat breakfast earlier than I normally do to keep the migraines at bay.
  • laurimaki
    laurimaki Posts: 47 Member
    edited February 2017
    Before that, though, what kind of hunger are we talking about here -- is it hedonic hunger? Wanting to eat for the pleasure of eating, or is it true hunger? Is it constant, or just before you're due to eat?

    Lastly, how close are you to goal?

    I worry about the sustainability of your approach here.

    I see you mentioned about migraines as did others. I don't really have any issues being hungry, if I let it go too long I get hangry, but for the most part, hunger doesn't bother me. I don't go to the point of starving where I'm going to eat everything in sight. I do try to wait until I'm truly hungry before eating though (truly hungry to me is not just ooh I smell bread and get hit with a grumbling, more like grumbling for 30 mins straight). Granted I have fallen off the wagon numerous times over the years. I have maintained my weight loss using this and similar tactics as I've lost 160lbs over the last 8 years. I still would like to lose another 75-90 lbs.

  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,011 Member
    KT6377 wrote: »
    Waiting until I am truly hungry isn't an option for me because once that happens it is highly likely that I will get a migraine, and guaranteed that will overeat at my next meal. I just divvy up my calories into 3 meals and 3 snacks and eat them at the same time each day. This way I don't overeat and I don't kill the rest of my day with a migraine. It's also very hard to feel deprived when you eat 6x a day.

    Agreed, once I'm noticeably hungry I get a headache and irritable and then I end up needing to eat more to feel even remotely satisfied. I know how many calories my body needs, and I like a regular schedule, so I don't have to wait until I feel hungry.

    I have never been technically overweight. Once I got to the high end of the healthy weight range I went on a 250 cal deficit and lost 15 lbs over the course of a year. I tend to eat 3 meals and 2 snacks om a regular schedule and may only get a little hungry before I eat. I can't sleep if I'm at all hungry. I like to feel a little full after a meal.

    Perhaps it's different for people who have more weight to lose or go with a higher deficit. But you don't need to have an empty stomach to burn fat, that's not how it works. Thank goodness, or I never would have lost anything. I suspect my stomach is only truly empty when I first wake up in the morning!
  • lulalacroix
    lulalacroix Posts: 1,082 Member
    I really enjoy the feeling of hunger and don't eat my first meal of the day until I'm hungry (I practice 16:8 IF).

    When I was gaining weight, I ate when I wasn't full as opposed to when I was hungry. I needed to relearn hunger. So for me, the feeling of hunger is a reminder that I'm still on the right track.

    That being said, I have also learned to eat less while still feeling sated and usually go to sleep with a bit of food in my belly because it helps me sleep better.
  • emmarrgh
    emmarrgh Posts: 44 Member
    You know, I feel like this has SOME merit. An in-law of mine has type II diabetes, and his sugars have been in the 260's for weeks at a time. Every day. Then, when my husband started making his meals low-carb for him, his sugars were in the 130's (so took less insulin), but he complained of fatigue, dizziness, etc.

    And my friend told me that such a large 'drop' in blood sugar (even from high to normal-high) can cause the same symptoms as if you dropped from normal to low. Your body is constantly in stasis, and by default wants to keep that stasis... the same.

    So it makes sense when you apply the same thing to weight loss. Our bodies are fine the way they are (or they THINK they are lol) so they want us to keep the habits that keep us this way.

    I am TRYING to get my true hunger signals sorted out as part of this process, and stop when I am done. Which is hard to do when there's still a full plate of delicious food in front of you - but sitting back mid-meal, pausing for a while, talking to my family, finishing my drink, etc. helps me to then assess how I feel, and whether I should eat more.

    That has the strange affect of making my meals a really weird amount of portions/calories lol.
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