First Half Marathon...Milage or Cross Training?

It is ill-advised to run to back to back days if your body is unaccustomed to it. So yes, I would cross train instead. With that being said, your long run is the most important part of the plan. As long as you stick to it, you should be fine. Doing too much mileage could increase the risk for injury.

vespiquenn wrote: »

It is ill-advised to run to back to back days if your body is unaccustomed to it. So yes, I would cross train instead. With that being said, your long run is the most important part of the plan. As long as you stick to it, you should be fine. Doing too much mileage could increase the risk for injury.

So one should avoid adapting their bodies to running every day?

I think trying to run everyday (but you should take a rest day or two) is an important part of any plan. But, it should be done in a gradual and consistent manner to avoid an overtraining injury. That means low intensity and when you start to feel fatigued, pack it in. Do this until you can walk/run 5-6 days a week. Then add 10-15% duration from there. 11 weeks is a short time, but I am sure it is doable.

My problem with cross training is it makes you a jack of all trades, master of none. People claim they break through their plateau or fixed some injury with cross training, but I feel like most are on the overtraining path and then they add in cross training which is essentially a rest day for whatever their primary sport is and they find out they break through their plateau and/or have their nagging injury go away. Triathletes would be another example, when you are in your best triathlon shape, you can't set a PR like you could if you were training for just one of the sports. JMO.

vespiquenn wrote: »

ronocnikral wrote: »

vespiquenn wrote: »

It is ill-advised to run to back to back days if your body is unaccustomed to it. So yes, I would cross train instead. With that being said, your long run is the most important part of the plan. As long as you stick to it, you should be fine. Doing too much mileage could increase the risk for injury.

So one should avoid adapting their bodies to running every day?

I think trying to run everyday (but you should take a rest day or two) is an important part of any plan. But, it should be done in a gradual and consistent manner to avoid an overtraining injury. That means low intensity and when you start to feel fatigued, pack it in. Do this until you can walk/run 5-6 days a week. Then add 10-15% duration from there. 11 weeks is a short time, but I am sure it is doable.

My problem with cross training is it makes you a jack of all trades, master of none. People claim they break through their plateau or fixed some injury with cross training, but I feel like most are on the overtraining path and then they add in cross training which is essentially a rest day for whatever their primary sport is and they find out they break through their plateau and/or have their nagging injury go away. Triathletes would be another example, when you are in your best triathlon shape, you can't set a PR like you could if you were training for just one of the sports. JMO.

I think you're attempting to make a problem that isn't there. OP seems to be a beginner to longer distances (OP, I apologize if this is not the case based on assumptions). So yes, running back to back is still ill-advised because the joints are not accustomed to it. That's not to say they can't eventually do this, but right now is not the time. Even I run back to back days now, but it took work to get there.

Beyond that, are you saying that a beginner should risk injury by running too much? Cross-training is useful on days that you don't want a rest day but want activity and want to continue working on your aerobic base.

"aerobic base" is specific to the sport. it's a misnomer to think that swimming helps your running aerobic base in any significant way. or cycling, or weight lifting.

The problem with most when starting out running is they have the wrong training mentality (no pain, no gain). I was overweight when I picked up running 16-17 weeks ago, and I've run almost every training day. It wasn't pretty, but the trick is to not go too hard or too long. It works, and is much better for your "aerobic base" than the wonky every other day training programs. I also believe a beginner is much more likely to be injured with too high of an intensity, even if 2 or 3 times a week. Maybe we're talking past each other a bit, but running every day is much better than a couple times a week and can be applied safely if one moderates their intensity and is honest with themselves when they feel fatigued. JMO.

ronocnikral wrote: »

vespiquenn wrote: »

ronocnikral wrote: »

vespiquenn wrote: »

It is ill-advised to run to back to back days if your body is unaccustomed to it. So yes, I would cross train instead. With that being said, your long run is the most important part of the plan. As long as you stick to it, you should be fine. Doing too much mileage could increase the risk for injury.

So one should avoid adapting their bodies to running every day?

I think trying to run everyday (but you should take a rest day or two) is an important part of any plan. But, it should be done in a gradual and consistent manner to avoid an overtraining injury. That means low intensity and when you start to feel fatigued, pack it in. Do this until you can walk/run 5-6 days a week. Then add 10-15% duration from there. 11 weeks is a short time, but I am sure it is doable.

My problem with cross training is it makes you a jack of all trades, master of none. People claim they break through their plateau or fixed some injury with cross training, but I feel like most are on the overtraining path and then they add in cross training which is essentially a rest day for whatever their primary sport is and they find out they break through their plateau and/or have their nagging injury go away. Triathletes would be another example, when you are in your best triathlon shape, you can't set a PR like you could if you were training for just one of the sports. JMO.

I think you're attempting to make a problem that isn't there. OP seems to be a beginner to longer distances (OP, I apologize if this is not the case based on assumptions). So yes, running back to back is still ill-advised because the joints are not accustomed to it. That's not to say they can't eventually do this, but right now is not the time. Even I run back to back days now, but it took work to get there.

Beyond that, are you saying that a beginner should risk injury by running too much? Cross-training is useful on days that you don't want a rest day but want activity and want to continue working on your aerobic base.

"aerobic base" is specific to the sport. it's a misnomer to think that swimming helps your running aerobic base in any significant way. or cycling, or weight lifting.

The problem with most when starting out running is they have the wrong training mentality (no pain, no gain). I was overweight when I picked up running 16-17 weeks ago, and I've run almost every training day. It wasn't pretty, but the trick is to not go too hard or too long. It works, and is much better for your "aerobic base" than the wonky every other day training programs. I also believe a beginner is much more likely to be injured with too high of an intensity, even if 2 or 3 times a week. Maybe we're talking past each other a bit, but running every day is much better than a couple times a week and can be applied safely if one moderates their intensity and is honest with themselves when they feel fatigued. JMO.

I mean this with no snark whatsoever, but come back when you've been running more than a few months.

It is very important to get mileage in and build muscle by tearing and repairing it, a new runner can easily over do it and running back to back days without allowing for rest is one of most common reasons new runners get injured.

OP, it is important to get in your long runs and to build endurance, but days of cross training allow you to still work muscles (like your core for example which is HUGE for runners) but gives your legs and knees a break.

I speak from experience as someone who didn't take rest days and ended up with a stress fracture a week before a half marathon. I'm still in recovery, and that was last May.

Deadlifts, squats, and lunges will strengthen your lower body, which I've found very helpful even as a novice, with short distance running.

kk_inprogress wrote: »

ronocnikral wrote: »

vespiquenn wrote: »

ronocnikral wrote: »

vespiquenn wrote: »

It is ill-advised to run to back to back days if your body is unaccustomed to it. So yes, I would cross train instead. With that being said, your long run is the most important part of the plan. As long as you stick to it, you should be fine. Doing too much mileage could increase the risk for injury.

So one should avoid adapting their bodies to running every day?

I think trying to run everyday (but you should take a rest day or two) is an important part of any plan. But, it should be done in a gradual and consistent manner to avoid an overtraining injury. That means low intensity and when you start to feel fatigued, pack it in. Do this until you can walk/run 5-6 days a week. Then add 10-15% duration from there. 11 weeks is a short time, but I am sure it is doable.

My problem with cross training is it makes you a jack of all trades, master of none. People claim they break through their plateau or fixed some injury with cross training, but I feel like most are on the overtraining path and then they add in cross training which is essentially a rest day for whatever their primary sport is and they find out they break through their plateau and/or have their nagging injury go away. Triathletes would be another example, when you are in your best triathlon shape, you can't set a PR like you could if you were training for just one of the sports. JMO.

I think you're attempting to make a problem that isn't there. OP seems to be a beginner to longer distances (OP, I apologize if this is not the case based on assumptions). So yes, running back to back is still ill-advised because the joints are not accustomed to it. That's not to say they can't eventually do this, but right now is not the time. Even I run back to back days now, but it took work to get there.

Beyond that, are you saying that a beginner should risk injury by running too much? Cross-training is useful on days that you don't want a rest day but want activity and want to continue working on your aerobic base.

"aerobic base" is specific to the sport. it's a misnomer to think that swimming helps your running aerobic base in any significant way. or cycling, or weight lifting.

The problem with most when starting out running is they have the wrong training mentality (no pain, no gain). I was overweight when I picked up running 16-17 weeks ago, and I've run almost every training day. It wasn't pretty, but the trick is to not go too hard or too long. It works, and is much better for your "aerobic base" than the wonky every other day training programs. I also believe a beginner is much more likely to be injured with too high of an intensity, even if 2 or 3 times a week. Maybe we're talking past each other a bit, but running every day is much better than a couple times a week and can be applied safely if one moderates their intensity and is honest with themselves when they feel fatigued. JMO.

I mean this with no snark whatsoever, but come back when you've been running more than a few months.

It is very important to get mileage in and build muscle by tearing and repairing it, a new runner can easily over do it and running back to back days without allowing for rest is one of most common reasons new runners get injured.

OP, it is important to get in your long runs and to build endurance, but days of cross training allow you to still work muscles (like your core for example which is HUGE for runners) but gives your legs and knees a break.

I speak from experience as someone who didn't take rest days and ended up with a stress fracture a week before a half marathon. I'm still in recovery, and that was last May.

What do you want me to "come back" and report on? And when?

I would also argue, too high of intensity and too long of duration on back to back days is what causes injury. I'm not knocking the boiler plate training programs, but just because there is a culture of over intense training doesn't mean there isn't a better way.

If your goal is simply to finish the half, which as a beginner with only 11weeks to train, this probably should be your goal, I would also recommend cross training on those days. The long run will be the most important run for endurance to get you through the race. I've always heard the advice that you really should only increase your mileage by about 10% per week to avoid injury. You will be doing this or more already by increasing your long run, so I would not worry as much about multiple other runs during the week.

I'm also training for a half after a 10 year break from them. I've run sporadically over the past several years. My training plan is to get to 11-13 mile long run, with a single 2-5 mile run during the week. My goal for this one is just to finish.

I also recommend walking breaks if you want to limit stress on your legs as a beginner (esp if you have extra weight). I'm currently doing half miles running with about 1:20 min walking in between. I can really tell the difference from way-back-when when all I did was run.

Good luck and have fun!

ronocnikral wrote: »

vespiquenn wrote: »

ronocnikral wrote: »

vespiquenn wrote: »

It is ill-advised to run to back to back days if your body is unaccustomed to it. So yes, I would cross train instead. With that being said, your long run is the most important part of the plan. As long as you stick to it, you should be fine. Doing too much mileage could increase the risk for injury.

So one should avoid adapting their bodies to running every day?

I think trying to run everyday (but you should take a rest day or two) is an important part of any plan. But, it should be done in a gradual and consistent manner to avoid an overtraining injury. That means low intensity and when you start to feel fatigued, pack it in. Do this until you can walk/run 5-6 days a week. Then add 10-15% duration from there. 11 weeks is a short time, but I am sure it is doable.

My problem with cross training is it makes you a jack of all trades, master of none. People claim they break through their plateau or fixed some injury with cross training, but I feel like most are on the overtraining path and then they add in cross training which is essentially a rest day for whatever their primary sport is and they find out they break through their plateau and/or have their nagging injury go away. Triathletes would be another example, when you are in your best triathlon shape, you can't set a PR like you could if you were training for just one of the sports. JMO.

I think you're attempting to make a problem that isn't there. OP seems to be a beginner to longer distances (OP, I apologize if this is not the case based on assumptions). So yes, running back to back is still ill-advised because the joints are not accustomed to it. That's not to say they can't eventually do this, but right now is not the time. Even I run back to back days now, but it took work to get there.

Beyond that, are you saying that a beginner should risk injury by running too much? Cross-training is useful on days that you don't want a rest day but want activity and want to continue working on your aerobic base.

"aerobic base" is specific to the sport. it's a misnomer to think that swimming helps your running aerobic base in any significant way. or cycling, or weight lifting.

The problem with most when starting out running is they have the wrong training mentality (no pain, no gain). I was overweight when I picked up running 16-17 weeks ago, and I've run almost every training day. It wasn't pretty, but the trick is to not go too hard or too long. It works, and is much better for your "aerobic base" than the wonky every other day training programs. I also believe a beginner is much more likely to be injured with too high of an intensity, even if 2 or 3 times a week. Maybe we're talking past each other a bit, but running every day is much better than a couple times a week and can be applied safely if one moderates their intensity and is honest with themselves when they feel fatigued. JMO.

what's the source for your information? Everything I have been reading about training (I’m a novice with a little over a year training, did c25k, currently aiming for a HM, max distance so far 9.5m, run 3-4 times a week with 1 long run).

I’ve seen studies that show cross-training is excellent in helping running, that running athletes focus on strength training for the off-season, that cycling helps to build muscle and is one of the best ways of preparing legs for hills.

I’ve also seen studies that show one of the main ways a new runner gets injured is running too much too soon, and that resting helps to establish both aerobic endurance AND allow bones and joints to develop to cope with the impact on them. Resting should be considered an ACTIVE part of your body development, stuff going on behind the scenes that helps the body grow – this is something a body builder knows well so why shouldn’t a runner?

I’d be very interested in understanding where your ideas are coming from, and I have to confess to being hesitant to agree with a relative newcomer to the sport. What has worked for you over the last 16-17 weeks may not continue to work in this way.

kk_inprogress wrote: »

ronocnikral wrote: »

kk_inprogress wrote: »

ronocnikral wrote: »

vespiquenn wrote: »

ronocnikral wrote: »

vespiquenn wrote: »

It is ill-advised to run to back to back days if your body is unaccustomed to it. So yes, I would cross train instead. With that being said, your long run is the most important part of the plan. As long as you stick to it, you should be fine. Doing too much mileage could increase the risk for injury.

So one should avoid adapting their bodies to running every day?

I think trying to run everyday (but you should take a rest day or two) is an important part of any plan. But, it should be done in a gradual and consistent manner to avoid an overtraining injury. That means low intensity and when you start to feel fatigued, pack it in. Do this until you can walk/run 5-6 days a week. Then add 10-15% duration from there. 11 weeks is a short time, but I am sure it is doable.

My problem with cross training is it makes you a jack of all trades, master of none. People claim they break through their plateau or fixed some injury with cross training, but I feel like most are on the overtraining path and then they add in cross training which is essentially a rest day for whatever their primary sport is and they find out they break through their plateau and/or have their nagging injury go away. Triathletes would be another example, when you are in your best triathlon shape, you can't set a PR like you could if you were training for just one of the sports. JMO.

I think you're attempting to make a problem that isn't there. OP seems to be a beginner to longer distances (OP, I apologize if this is not the case based on assumptions). So yes, running back to back is still ill-advised because the joints are not accustomed to it. That's not to say they can't eventually do this, but right now is not the time. Even I run back to back days now, but it took work to get there.

Beyond that, are you saying that a beginner should risk injury by running too much? Cross-training is useful on days that you don't want a rest day but want activity and want to continue working on your aerobic base.

"aerobic base" is specific to the sport. it's a misnomer to think that swimming helps your running aerobic base in any significant way. or cycling, or weight lifting.

The problem with most when starting out running is they have the wrong training mentality (no pain, no gain). I was overweight when I picked up running 16-17 weeks ago, and I've run almost every training day. It wasn't pretty, but the trick is to not go too hard or too long. It works, and is much better for your "aerobic base" than the wonky every other day training programs. I also believe a beginner is much more likely to be injured with too high of an intensity, even if 2 or 3 times a week. Maybe we're talking past each other a bit, but running every day is much better than a couple times a week and can be applied safely if one moderates their intensity and is honest with themselves when they feel fatigued. JMO.

I mean this with no snark whatsoever, but come back when you've been running more than a few months.

It is very important to get mileage in and build muscle by tearing and repairing it, a new runner can easily over do it and running back to back days without allowing for rest is one of most common reasons new runners get injured.

OP, it is important to get in your long runs and to build endurance, but days of cross training allow you to still work muscles (like your core for example which is HUGE for runners) but gives your legs and knees a break.

I speak from experience as someone who didn't take rest days and ended up with a stress fracture a week before a half marathon. I'm still in recovery, and that was last May.

What do you want me to "come back" and report on? And when?

I would also argue, too high of intensity and too long of duration on back to back days is what causes injury. I'm not knocking the boiler plate training programs, but just because there is a culture of over intense training doesn't mean there isn't a better way.

Running 5-6 days a week is really hard on the body, for very experienced runners who have been training for years. Recommending this to a novice is not good advice and while it may work for the first few months, it's not a good mindset in the long run.

I'm a triathlete and I've hit plenty of running PRs while training. Cycling did wonders for my runs, actually, and gave my shins rest from the impact of the ground.

I've had better race/distance PR's in legs of triathlons than I ever had in stand-alone races - give me an ironman triathlon any day of the week over a straight up marathon

Looking at the program - i would cross train. I did a marathon and walk-run trained the whole time - and still averaged 10-11 minute miles, so don't sweat that. Listen to your body and good luck!