Can you gain muscle if your loosing weight ?
siiil209
Posts: 13 Member
Hello , beginner here
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Replies
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HELP2
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Can anyone see what I typed . It's not showing up when I view it1
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If you eat too little your body can use muscle for energy.3
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I think that you can loose fat and gain muscle at the same time however my (limited) understanding is that this is a slow process. I think it is recommended to focus on one or the other ie loosing fat or gaining muscle. When loosing weight (fat) is is a good idea to try to maintain the muscle that you have by eating an adequate amount of protein - and there have been studies on what this amount is. You can certainly increase your STRENGTH while losing weight if you include regular weight training and do not have to heavy an energy deficit.6
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Possible, yes. There are exceptions. Likely, probably not for most of the general population. Exchange fat weight for muscle mass (recomp) is a LONG PROCESS. And in reality if one is gaining muscle, then weight should go up since adding muscle means adding mass. And adding mass usually means having a surplus.
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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When you say lose weight I assume you mean lose fat? Gaining muscle will help your fat loss more than just decreasing calorie intake, because muscle uses your fat for energy so the more you have the more fat you will lose (that is why squats are actually one of the best exercises for fat loss and increasing metabolism) - that said you *weight* might not change and might even go up! I have been training since november and have lost fat, gained muscle and stayed the same weight, but my body is still smaller because muscle takes up so much less room than fat. Thirdly you need to make sure you're eating enough to gain that muscle, especially protein. I know a lot of people at my gym who are eating more than they ever did before but the right foods and combined with the exercise they are still losing fat
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Thank you everyone for the help ! Best of luck to everyone on your journey !1
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While I hear it is possible, I think rather than focusing on how much muscle you can gain, do what you would do regardless to retain as much muscle as possible at deficit, by weight training and adequate protein intake (and keeping the deficit reasonable). Any muscle gains while losing would be a bonus. Once you get near goal you can reevaluate and decide to recomp or bulk depending on your goals.4
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my personal experience. is a kind of yes, based on my own results.
at the moment i have lost 18lbs in total weight since January.
on Jan 1st 2017 i was 277lbs
26% body fat. which is 72.02 Lbs of Fatty Mcfattyness.
As of today 02/03/2017 i am 259 Lbs
21% body fat. which is 54lbs
so i have lost, in total 22lbs of fat. but as above ive only lost 18lbs off my total mass.
Now , i also get my lean totals. as part of the read out when i do a weigh in.
so my lean mass, not including water weight
on Jan 1st 201lbs (72% of total mass)
As of now 02/03/2017 204lbs (77% of total mass)
now the astute among you will see their is a 2% discrepancy between my lean masses and fatty masses. im assuming this is either water, or something. but its consistent.
My understanding on the science is not really top level, but i know a bit about what it takes to build muscle. there are something like 19 different protein components and your body can produce 8 of them and you get the others from food or supplements. I.e. BCAA (branch chain amino acids.)
Now if your body is using pre-exisiting fat stores to convert to glycogen as energy. Then the proteins you consume cna be utilised by the body for building muscle.
The deficit everyone aims for is not a true deficit. its more like a deficit for the future. or a surplus from the past.
Let me explain:
if your goal is to eat 2500 calories to maintain your weight. if you eat 2000 on monday, and 3000 on tuesday. then youre not in a deficit. at all.
similarly, if you eat 2000 on monday and 2000 on tuesday, your body will seek the other energy from your fat stores. so its not a true deficit its just the excess calories you ate once upon a time. so if you add extra resistance training to your life. and say your body tries to use 500kcal extra for the exercise. it will use the protein and food you eat to build the muscles. and it will take extra fat from the pre-existing surplus to produce the glycogen hence why having more muscle, burns more fat. i mean im not an expert but that makes sense to me and the numbers from my own experience make sense.
i feel ive ranted. hopefully it makes sense.
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tbrain1989 wrote: ».
As of today 02/03/2017 i am 259 Lbs
21% body fat. which is 54lbs
Your answer was informative for the OP but I can't believe that you have 205lbs of LBM unless you are 6'8+4 -
They are not mutually exclusive.
During the bulk of my weight loss (pun not intended) I did resistance training with the intention of preserving the muscle. After quite a few months I noticed a bicep "dimple" and my forearms were significantly more "veiny", and don't get me started on the legs...1 -
2011rocket3touring wrote: »They are not mutually exclusive.
During the bulk of my weight loss (pun not intended) I did resistance training with the intention of preserving the muscle. After quite a few months I noticed a bicep "dimple" and my forearms were significantly more "veiny", and don't get me started on the legs...
You lost bodyfat and got leaner. That doesn't mean that you gained muscle though I'm afraid.2 -
Yes, if you are a beginner. Stay at maintenance calorie intake at your current activity level and see how far you can go before you stall. Then you will have to make some changes1
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I actually think your question would be more precise as "can you gain muscle and lose fat" and than my previous answer would make more sense. Cause when you start to drop weight by forming a caloric deficit, you lose both muscle and fat, and at best, you can hope to retain as much muscle as possible by lifting weights1
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I actually think your question would be more precise as "can you gain muscle and lose fat" and than my previous answer would make more sense. Cause when you start to drop weight by forming a caloric deficit, you lose both muscle and fat, and at best, you can hope to retain as much muscle as possible by lifting weights
Even in a deficit, the OP may the ability to gain some muscle.
OP, can you gain muscle in a deficit... yea.. most people can, especially if they are new to resistance training/progressive overload training. Will you gain muscle... well unless you get DEXA scans, you won't actually know. So at best, follow a structure program, have a small or no deficit, get adequate protein, and just try to get stronger. Even if you do or don't gain muscle, it won't matter if you like how your body is shaping up.2 -
Absolutely!!!
While in a calorie deficient, it is possible to gain muscle while cutting, the gains won't be huge by any means but you can gain strength and muscle for sure. But remember, if you are in a calorie surplus, you will gain much more muscle, but you will not be able to lose any fat at all.4 -
trigden1991 wrote: »2011rocket3touring wrote: »They are not mutually exclusive.
During the bulk of my weight loss (pun not intended) I did resistance training with the intention of preserving the muscle. After quite a few months I noticed a bicep "dimple" and my forearms were significantly more "veiny", and don't get me started on the legs...
You lost bodyfat and got leaner. That doesn't mean that you gained muscle though I'm afraid.
In the interests of balance - it also doesn't mean he didn't add muscle!1 -
trigden1991 wrote: »2011rocket3touring wrote: »They are not mutually exclusive.
During the bulk of my weight loss (pun not intended) I did resistance training with the intention of preserving the muscle. After quite a few months I noticed a bicep "dimple" and my forearms were significantly more "veiny", and don't get me started on the legs...
You lost bodyfat and got leaner. That doesn't mean that you gained muscle though I'm afraid.
In the interests of balance - it also doesn't mean he didn't add muscle!
Very true.1 -
Actually muscle use GLYCOGEN for energy first and foremost. And on a deficit people aren't gaining pounds of muscle per month. Even then, a pound of muscle only burns 6 calories a day more. That's not super significant.When you say lose weight I assume you mean lose fat? Gaining muscle will help your fat loss more than just decreasing calorie intake, because muscle uses your fat for energy so the more you have the more fat you will lose (that is why squats are actually one of the best exercises for fat loss and increasing metabolism) - that said you *weight* might not change and might even go up! I have been training since november and have lost fat, gained muscle and stayed the same weight, but my body is still smaller because muscle takes up so much less room than fat. Thirdly you need to make sure you're eating enough to gain that muscle, especially protein. I know a lot of people at my gym who are eating more than they ever did before but the right foods and combined with the exercise they are still losing fat
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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I actually think your question would be more precise as "can you gain muscle and lose fat" and than my previous answer would make more sense. Cause when you start to drop weight by forming a caloric deficit, you lose both muscle and fat, and at best, you can hope to retain as much muscle as possible by lifting weights
Even in a deficit, the OP may the ability to gain some muscle.
OP, can you gain muscle in a deficit... yea.. most people can, especially if they are new to resistance training/progressive overload training. Will you gain muscle... well unless you get DEXA scans, you won't actually know. So at best, follow a structure program, have a small or no deficit, get adequate protein, and just try to get stronger. Even if you do or don't gain muscle, it won't matter if you like how your body is shaping up.
I don't understand why you would feel the need to correct me. I've said nothing wrong. You just slightly extended on my answer yet revealed nothing new that I haven't said.0 -
I actually think your question would be more precise as "can you gain muscle and lose fat" and than my previous answer would make more sense. Cause when you start to drop weight by forming a caloric deficit, you lose both muscle and fat, and at best, you can hope to retain as much muscle as possible by lifting weights
Even in a deficit, the OP may the ability to gain some muscle.
OP, can you gain muscle in a deficit... yea.. most people can, especially if they are new to resistance training/progressive overload training. Will you gain muscle... well unless you get DEXA scans, you won't actually know. So at best, follow a structure program, have a small or no deficit, get adequate protein, and just try to get stronger. Even if you do or don't gain muscle, it won't matter if you like how your body is shaping up.
I don't understand why you would feel the need to correct me. I've said nothing wrong. You just slightly extended on my answer yet revealed nothing new that I haven't said.
Because: "Cause when you start to drop weight by forming a caloric deficit, you lose both muscle and fat, and at best, you can hope to retain as much muscle as possible by lifting weights " is not always true.2 -
Very simply, your body uses a caloric surplus to build, and needs a caloric deficit to lose. It's like saying "can I gain weight and lose weight at the same time" which doesn't make a lot of sense.
As others have said if you're new to lifting, you'll see some change in appearance and increased definition for sure, but you won't be packing on pounds of muscle while losing pounds of fat. I'm not sure that's your goal anyways.1 -
I think that you can loose fat and gain muscle at the same time however my (limited) understanding is that this is a slow process. I think it is recommended to focus on one or the other ie loosing fat or gaining muscle. When loosing weight (fat) is is a good idea to try to maintain the muscle that you have by eating an adequate amount of protein - and there have been studies on what this amount is. You can certainly increase your STRENGTH while losing weight if you include regular weight training and do not have to heavy an energy deficit.
And in addition, this (losing fat gaining muscle at the same time) usually has to be done while eating very close to your maintenance calories. (this is my understanding)
You would not see a scale weight reduction. You would stay the same weight, but your measurements would change. And when people say slow... they mean like years.
If you want to lose weight and fat, it's still good to lift weights while eating below maintenance as it encourages muscle retention. Otherwise, your body may actually lose a bit of muscle while you lose fat. Eating enough protein is also recommended.
I think when you're brand new to lifting, it is possible to gain a very small amount of muscle while losing weight, but that effect would probably wear off after about 2-4 months. At least that's what I've read. There's a lot of contradictory info on the internet and it's hard to distinguish sometimes.1 -
I actually think your question would be more precise as "can you gain muscle and lose fat" and than my previous answer would make more sense. Cause when you start to drop weight by forming a caloric deficit, you lose both muscle and fat, and at best, you can hope to retain as much muscle as possible by lifting weights
Even in a deficit, the OP may the ability to gain some muscle.
OP, can you gain muscle in a deficit... yea.. most people can, especially if they are new to resistance training/progressive overload training. Will you gain muscle... well unless you get DEXA scans, you won't actually know. So at best, follow a structure program, have a small or no deficit, get adequate protein, and just try to get stronger. Even if you do or don't gain muscle, it won't matter if you like how your body is shaping up.
I don't understand why you would feel the need to correct me. I've said nothing wrong. You just slightly extended on my answer yet revealed nothing new that I haven't said.
Because: "Cause when you start to drop weight by forming a caloric deficit, you lose both muscle and fat, and at best, you can hope to retain as much muscle as possible by lifting weights " is not always true.
Please. Not "always" true. Do you think this girl is on steroids or knows what progressive overload is? Lol ok. I specifically mentioned the "beginners part" and when you drop from maintenance to an even moderate caloric deficit the chances you can build muscle are so small that shouldn't be discussed. What if you are a beginner on a large deficit? Can you still put muscle on? How much muscle are you talking about on a deficit for a beginner? A 100g. A kilo? Not always true. Please. I realize you are a moderator but you don't have to be vain.0 -
I actually think your question would be more precise as "can you gain muscle and lose fat" and than my previous answer would make more sense. Cause when you start to drop weight by forming a caloric deficit, you lose both muscle and fat, and at best, you can hope to retain as much muscle as possible by lifting weights
Even in a deficit, the OP may the ability to gain some muscle.
OP, can you gain muscle in a deficit... yea.. most people can, especially if they are new to resistance training/progressive overload training. Will you gain muscle... well unless you get DEXA scans, you won't actually know. So at best, follow a structure program, have a small or no deficit, get adequate protein, and just try to get stronger. Even if you do or don't gain muscle, it won't matter if you like how your body is shaping up.
I don't understand why you would feel the need to correct me. I've said nothing wrong. You just slightly extended on my answer yet revealed nothing new that I haven't said.
Because: "Cause when you start to drop weight by forming a caloric deficit, you lose both muscle and fat, and at best, you can hope to retain as much muscle as possible by lifting weights " is not always true.
Please. Not "always" true. Do you think this girl is on steroids or knows what progressive overload is? Lol ok. I specifically mentioned the "beginners part" and when you drop from maintenance to an even moderate caloric deficit the chances you can build muscle are so small that shouldn't be discussed. What if you are a beginner on a large deficit? Can you still put muscle on? How much muscle are you talking about on a deficit for a beginner? A 100g. A kilo? Not always true. Please. I realize you are a moderator but you don't have to be vain.
Vastly over-stated to claim people generally lose muscle in a deficit. Muscle simply isn't a preferred fuel source, it's incredibly inefficient to burn muscle for energy as compared to glycogen and fat.
Sure you can lose muscle with an excessive deficit, getting lighter with no muscle stimulus or change in exercise, malnutrition etc. but it's erroneous to claim that's normal across a population.
It's far from unusual for people to have a sensible deficit, increase their training stimulus and have an adequate diet whilst losing weight. Used to be called getting in shape - it was the expectation not the exception.
If you are already lean and near your genetic potential (body builder on a cut perhaps?) then the situation is different - but that applies to a tiny minority of the general population (who often tend to be under-trained and over-fat) as opposed to the "serious lifter" demographic.
BTW - I've never taken PEDs and have gained muscle many times in a deficit throughout my training lifetime.
Young and perhaps better than average genetics.
Recovering from injury (3" increase in quads and lost 14lbs...)
Novel training stimulus.
Returning to previous training levels.
Tiny deficit and hard training.
Improved programming/training.
In the end most people will generally agree on the methods to obtain the personal best possible individual results and whether that means more/less/same muscle for that individual is a pretty pointless exercise.
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I actually think your question would be more precise as "can you gain muscle and lose fat" and than my previous answer would make more sense. Cause when you start to drop weight by forming a caloric deficit, you lose both muscle and fat, and at best, you can hope to retain as much muscle as possible by lifting weights
Even in a deficit, the OP may the ability to gain some muscle.
OP, can you gain muscle in a deficit... yea.. most people can, especially if they are new to resistance training/progressive overload training. Will you gain muscle... well unless you get DEXA scans, you won't actually know. So at best, follow a structure program, have a small or no deficit, get adequate protein, and just try to get stronger. Even if you do or don't gain muscle, it won't matter if you like how your body is shaping up.
I don't understand why you would feel the need to correct me. I've said nothing wrong. You just slightly extended on my answer yet revealed nothing new that I haven't said.
Because: "Cause when you start to drop weight by forming a caloric deficit, you lose both muscle and fat, and at best, you can hope to retain as much muscle as possible by lifting weights " is not always true.
Please. Not "always" true. Do you think this girl is on steroids or knows what progressive overload is? Lol ok. I specifically mentioned the "beginners part" and when you drop from maintenance to an even moderate caloric deficit the chances you can build muscle are so small that shouldn't be discussed. What if you are a beginner on a large deficit? Can you still put muscle on? How much muscle are you talking about on a deficit for a beginner? A 100g. A kilo? Not always true. Please. I realize you are a moderator but you don't have to be vain.
Vastly over-stated to claim people generally lose muscle in a deficit. Muscle simply isn't a preferred fuel source, it's incredibly inefficient to burn muscle for energy as compared to glycogen and fat.
Sure you can lose muscle with an excessive deficit, getting lighter with no muscle stimulus or change in exercise, malnutrition etc. but it's erroneous to claim that's normal across a population.
It's far from unusual for people to have a sensible deficit, increase their training stimulus and have an adequate diet whilst losing weight. Used to be called getting in shape - it was the expectation not the exception.
If you are already lean and near your genetic potential (body builder on a cut perhaps?) then the situation is different - but that applies to a tiny minority of the general population (who often tend to be under-trained and over-fat) as opposed to the "serious lifter" demographic.
BTW - I've never taken PEDs and have gained muscle many times in a deficit throughout my training lifetime.
Young and perhaps better than average genetics.
Recovering from injury (3" increase in quads and lost 14lbs...)
Novel training stimulus.
Returning to previous training levels.
Tiny deficit and hard training.
Improved programming/training.
In the end most people will generally agree on the methods to obtain the personal best possible individual results and whether that means more/less/same muscle for that individual is a pretty pointless exercise.
Thank you kind Sir. I don't know why you would quote me either. I was writing in very loose terms in all my posts. When I said lose muscle I didn't exactly mean it's gonna run off around the corner. When you are in a constant deficit your body thinks you are going to die and will do anything to prevent that or slow it down. It is all our knowledge on nutrition and training that turn that process in to nice looking, muscular, lean bodies. Do I have to put my bathroom selfie as my profile pic so you guys stop trying to teach me something? This forum is full of "experts" who don't hesitate to rub their expertise in your face.2 -
I actually think your question would be more precise as "can you gain muscle and lose fat" and than my previous answer would make more sense. Cause when you start to drop weight by forming a caloric deficit, you lose both muscle and fat, and at best, you can hope to retain as much muscle as possible by lifting weights
Even in a deficit, the OP may the ability to gain some muscle.
OP, can you gain muscle in a deficit... yea.. most people can, especially if they are new to resistance training/progressive overload training. Will you gain muscle... well unless you get DEXA scans, you won't actually know. So at best, follow a structure program, have a small or no deficit, get adequate protein, and just try to get stronger. Even if you do or don't gain muscle, it won't matter if you like how your body is shaping up.
I don't understand why you would feel the need to correct me. I've said nothing wrong. You just slightly extended on my answer yet revealed nothing new that I haven't said.
Because: "Cause when you start to drop weight by forming a caloric deficit, you lose both muscle and fat, and at best, you can hope to retain as much muscle as possible by lifting weights " is not always true.
Please. Not "always" true. Do you think this girl is on steroids or knows what progressive overload is? Lol ok. I specifically mentioned the "beginners part" and when you drop from maintenance to an even moderate caloric deficit the chances you can build muscle are so small that shouldn't be discussed. What if you are a beginner on a large deficit? Can you still put muscle on? How much muscle are you talking about on a deficit for a beginner? A 100g. A kilo? Not always true. Please. I realize you are a moderator but you don't have to be vain.
Please leave me being a moderator out of the conversation. My moderator status has no implication on your over my ability to debate a topic.
As @sijomial already pointed out, you made a sweeping generalization. A person has the ability to store 300 to 500g of glycogen and unlimited potential of storing fat as energy. Considering both of these are primary sources, it is unlikely that the body would convert proteins for energy sources.
And there are a lot of variables that come into play when it comes to how much and if muscle is gained. Just like it would to have the ability to lose muscle (not LBM) during a deficit. The majority of studies that I have seen to suggest muscle loss are; low in protein, no exercise or only light cardio and in elderly (usually followed with low protein). If you have moderate protein (as little as .6g/lb of lbm) and even some exercise (a stimulus that probably wasn't previously there), you will put yourself in a situation to at least maintaining it.2 -
I actually think your question would be more precise as "can you gain muscle and lose fat" and than my previous answer would make more sense. Cause when you start to drop weight by forming a caloric deficit, you lose both muscle and fat, and at best, you can hope to retain as much muscle as possible by lifting weights
Even in a deficit, the OP may the ability to gain some muscle.
OP, can you gain muscle in a deficit... yea.. most people can, especially if they are new to resistance training/progressive overload training. Will you gain muscle... well unless you get DEXA scans, you won't actually know. So at best, follow a structure program, have a small or no deficit, get adequate protein, and just try to get stronger. Even if you do or don't gain muscle, it won't matter if you like how your body is shaping up.
I don't understand why you would feel the need to correct me. I've said nothing wrong. You just slightly extended on my answer yet revealed nothing new that I haven't said.
Because: "Cause when you start to drop weight by forming a caloric deficit, you lose both muscle and fat, and at best, you can hope to retain as much muscle as possible by lifting weights " is not always true.
Please. Not "always" true. Do you think this girl is on steroids or knows what progressive overload is? Lol ok. I specifically mentioned the "beginners part" and when you drop from maintenance to an even moderate caloric deficit the chances you can build muscle are so small that shouldn't be discussed. What if you are a beginner on a large deficit? Can you still put muscle on? How much muscle are you talking about on a deficit for a beginner? A 100g. A kilo? Not always true. Please. I realize you are a moderator but you don't have to be vain.
Please leave me being a moderator out of the conversation. My moderator status has no implication on your over my ability to debate a topic.
As @sijomial already pointed out, you made a sweeping generalization. A person has the ability to store 300 to 500g of glycogen and unlimited potential of storing fat as energy. Considering both of these are primary sources, it is unlikely that the body would convert proteins for energy sources.
And there are a lot of variables that come into play when it comes to how much and if muscle is gained. Just like it would to have the ability to lose muscle (not LBM) during a deficit. The majority of studies that I have seen to suggest muscle loss are; low in protein, no exercise or only light cardio and in elderly (usually followed with low protein). If you have moderate protein (as little as .6g/lb of lbm) and even some exercise (a stimulus that probably wasn't previously there), you will put yourself in a situation to at least maintaining it.
Thanks DEXA scans. Lol0 -
Yes it is very well possible. I'm a living proof of that.
I started out at 95 kg in the fall 2015.. now I'm 60 kg and I've got a decent amount of strength and muscles.
People will tell you that you can't do it and that you have to choice either one, muscle gain or fat loss. They'll tell you that it's hard and that it takes a lot of time but that's not true. It hasn't taken a lot of time for me and I keep gaining yet I don't lose any weight anymore but my fat % goes down and my muscles get more visible each day.
Just eat good clean food, weigh it.. even try something like Zone and work out hard wile at it. It's not that hard to be honest.. it's only hard the first few months.. then it becomes natural and soon you can't live without your workouts or food.
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