Carbs versus Fats. This site needs to update its recommendations.
AlexandraCarlyle
Posts: 1,603 Member
Current global research confirms that advice given by Government Health Bodies everywhere, is in serious need of review.
It now seems that Carbohydrates are the culprits, while Fats are the friends.
Sarah Hallsberg (a Doctor treating obesity and Diabetes, in the USA) has much to say, and furthermore, Dr Andreas Eenfeldt supports her assertions. To add, an article in a British Newspaper, puts it in black and white.
Even Time Magazine, as long ago as 2014, admitted they printed - and got it wrong. It's a long article. But well worth reading.
In brief, the way this site - and others - recommends weight loss seems, by current assertions, to be flawed.
And if any relief is wanted from the intensity of Science, you only need turn to Butter Bob, who has caused a little bit of a stir with his assertion that "Butter makes your Pants fall off!" videos. (They even wrote a song about it!)
However, even if I ignore guidelines outlined here, and reverse the quantities of fat and carbs recommended to me at my registration (40g and 150g daily, respectively) the assessment each day is going to show an inaccurate conclusion, because according to the way calories are counted on here, I'd be way off the path.
I have actually been following a LCHF diet for 2 weeks now and have lost 6 lbs. Butter Bob will give you a better run-down on the types of foods i've been eating, but sticking with his tried-and-tested formulas, and listening to the Medics, above, has certainly been an eye-opening experience.
Incidentally, my Husband, who is a type 2 Diabetes, has also been adhering to this regime, and has lost weight. If he carries on like this (his Doctor has said) he will come off his meds completely, and rid himself of Diabetes for good. All he will need to do, is continue with his new way of eating....
Please note: I'm sure people have lost a lot of weight by sticking with a specific regime recommended here. I'm merely putting forward the point that it may not all be as it has always been put to us....
How do other folks on here feel about this?
It now seems that Carbohydrates are the culprits, while Fats are the friends.
Sarah Hallsberg (a Doctor treating obesity and Diabetes, in the USA) has much to say, and furthermore, Dr Andreas Eenfeldt supports her assertions. To add, an article in a British Newspaper, puts it in black and white.
Even Time Magazine, as long ago as 2014, admitted they printed - and got it wrong. It's a long article. But well worth reading.
In brief, the way this site - and others - recommends weight loss seems, by current assertions, to be flawed.
And if any relief is wanted from the intensity of Science, you only need turn to Butter Bob, who has caused a little bit of a stir with his assertion that "Butter makes your Pants fall off!" videos. (They even wrote a song about it!)
However, even if I ignore guidelines outlined here, and reverse the quantities of fat and carbs recommended to me at my registration (40g and 150g daily, respectively) the assessment each day is going to show an inaccurate conclusion, because according to the way calories are counted on here, I'd be way off the path.
I have actually been following a LCHF diet for 2 weeks now and have lost 6 lbs. Butter Bob will give you a better run-down on the types of foods i've been eating, but sticking with his tried-and-tested formulas, and listening to the Medics, above, has certainly been an eye-opening experience.
Incidentally, my Husband, who is a type 2 Diabetes, has also been adhering to this regime, and has lost weight. If he carries on like this (his Doctor has said) he will come off his meds completely, and rid himself of Diabetes for good. All he will need to do, is continue with his new way of eating....
Please note: I'm sure people have lost a lot of weight by sticking with a specific regime recommended here. I'm merely putting forward the point that it may not all be as it has always been put to us....
How do other folks on here feel about this?
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Replies
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Feel free to set your macros at whatever level you feel works best for you.28
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I'm brand new to the site. I had no idea we could do that. kind of you to suggest it, thank you.
How do I do that, please?0 -
I not only "feel"; I know some things.
When you reduce your carbohydrate intake, you lose quite a bit of water too. Fat loss is slow and takes a long, long time.
Fat has more than twice the amount of calories per gram than carbohydrate, so you can't just replace carbs with the same amount of fat, you have to look at the energy %.
Demonizing nutrients and foods is a well-trodden path to disordered eating.
A good diet is one that provides us with everything we need, and not too much of anything, and at the same time is easy to stick to. We need a range of nutrients every day, and variety is the best and easiest way to achieve that.
Any diet that provides a calorie deficit will make you lose weight if you stick to it. It's not hard to compose a diet to create a calorie deficit. The hard part is actually sticking to the diet. A good diet should be easy to stick to. But the crucial part is that you stick to it.
Recommendations are just that, not laws. You can set your calorie goal and macro goals as you please.21 -
Before responding, I would urge you to read the articles and watch the videos I posted.
I'm not suggesting replacing calorific amounts. I'm suggesting that dietary recommendations given everywhere, need reviewing. we actually don't 'need' carbohydrates at all, but they're present in virtually everything we eat.
I take your viewpoints on board; my argument is that calorie-counting/component ratios as presented to me at the outset of my registration, is flawed.1 -
AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »I'm brand new to the site. I had no idea we could do that. kind of you to suggest it, thank you.
How do I do that, please?
From web version:
From Homepage select Goals.
Click Edit button next to Daily Nutrition Goals
Use Dropdowns for Macronutrients to set % (5% chunks only in free version)
Ensure they add up to 100%
Click Save Changes
From app
From Homepage tap ... and select Goals
Select Calorie and Macronutrient Goals
Set % (ensuring they add up to 100%)
Tap back arrow until back at homepage8 -
It is true that we don't actually need carbs (the body makes is own sugar from fat and protein), but as you say, carbs are found in a lot of foods that provide nutrients we do need, and those foods tend to be delicious, and people tend to like delicious food.8
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Thanks, @StealthHealth , have looked that up and changed accordingly. Most kind....
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I'll stick with a good old fashioned calorie deficit thanks!12
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kommodevaran wrote: »It is true that we don't actually need carbs (the body makes is own sugar from fat and protein), but as you say, carbs are found in a lot of foods that provide nutrients we do need, and those foods tend to be delicious, and people tend to like delicious food.
My point is that Fat per se isn't bad for you, but most dietary recommendations are that you cut it out or restrict intake, to specific fats (such as oils found in flax, olives, avocados and fish). Fats don't need to be reduced or eliminated. It's a globally-accepted premise, due to much influence from the 'wrong' quarters, but it;s a trend that seriously needs reversing.
And it's nothing new, either. But the voices that have needed to be heard, are only just being heard, now.
So interesting to be discussing this with you!0 -
Could I ask you to take a look at Dr Hallberg's video? All of it, but pertinent to this current discussion, from 11.11 minutes in....0
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There fixed it for you. That is where you lost me 100% by refering to the Daily Fail as a newspaper.AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »To add, an article in a British Tabloid and Rag, puts it in black and white.
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I like carbs and carbs like me.How do other folks on here feel about this?
I do dislike set macro percentages though (restriction adversely affects adherence long term) so when I'm food logging I set minimums for protein & fat and rest of my calorie allowance comes from whatever macro I fancy on the day or best suits that day's activity within my overall calorie allowance.
So on a big cycling day I become a carb monster.
Also feel it's just as silly to demonise carbs as it clearly was to demonise fats.
There's a huge amount of denial amongst overweight people about the fact they simply ate too much.
Hence the constant quest to find a magic bullet whether it's a particular macro / supplement / pill or potion.14 -
Mainstream nutritional information is tragically lagging, but luckily (or hopefully), the opinion is slowly turning towards a less restricive approach.AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »It is true that we don't actually need carbs (the body makes is own sugar from fat and protein), but as you say, carbs are found in a lot of foods that provide nutrients we do need, and those foods tend to be delicious, and people tend to like delicious food.
My point is that Fat per se isn't bad for you, but most dietary recommendations are that you cut it out or restrict intake, to specific fats (such as oils found in flax, olives, avocados and fish). Fats don't need to be reduced or eliminated. It's a globally-accepted premise, due to much influence from the 'wrong' quarters, but it;s a trend that seriously needs reversing.
And it's nothing new, either. But the voices that have needed to be heard, are only just being heard, now.
So interesting to be discussing this with you!
You still have to restrict calorie intake if you want to lose weight. But it's smart to cut where it doesn't hurt so much. I thrive on a diet that is rich in fat, including saturated fat, but I also eat a lot of vegetables, fruit, whole grains, fish. Trying to restrict fat made it impossible for me to eat well, or even stick to that low fat diet - the combination of worry and feeling of defeat with the lack of taste and enjoyment, made me cave and binge on less nutritious sweet and fatty food, just to try to get some pleasure from eating. That is not an issue at all anymore, and I'm finally able to maintain a healthy weight.3 -
I think the main thing isn't to restrict yourself so much that you don't enjoy what you are eating any more - but there are loads of healthy foods that are yummy too! Personally, I don't think I could ever completely give up cake, but I know that if I eat too much or on an empty stomach I will get a horrendous sugar crash shortly afterwards. I haven't experienced one since cutting down on carbs and upping my protein so for me, that's a good sign. I think you have to have an informed choice and a little bit of what you fancy doesn't do you any harm!0
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Being born in the mid fifties I have seen the changes in diet advice. My father ate three meals a day with no snacks. Mainly cheap cuts of fatty meat with veg and some carbs in the form of potato and small amounts of home baked bread. He and his peers were always lean and fit looking. Then came cheap carbs in the form of cereal breakfasts and more and more processed foods with hidden sugars and fats. People were advised to eat lots of cereals by the companies wanting to sell anything they could and lying about the health benefits. Processed bread became cheap and pasta was cheap so people ate lots of it. Along with the food pyramid from successive governments (probably funded by cereal companies) people ate more and more cheap carbs and processed foods. Eating a well balance diet with the range of macros all of good quality with minimal processing will benefit most people. I too am a keen cyclists and do increase my carb intake when cycling longer rides. I don't carb up as I don't feel the need. I do increase my fat intake with my eggs, bacon and mushroom breakfast and then add carbs in for the ride duration. I rode sixty eight miles on Sunday with a carb intake of 267 grams and that included my evening meal. This works for me and I have lots of energy and rarely feel hungry. As the weather gets better and my miles increase I expect I will loose some weight. I have been on this eating plan since I stopped drinking vast amounts of beer almost a year ago, I lost my way and put on 90 pounds. I have lost it all and do not want to put it back on. I find my 1950's way of eating easy to sustain and get plenty of good limited processed foods (my bacon is dry cure back bacon, so only salted- no chemicals).
Whatever you find works for you is your system and if you can maintain your weight without extremes and feel happy; stick to it. Relying on exercise in my opinion is a very bad thing as if injured your intake is too high and harder to adjust down.
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The MFP recommendations for macros are fine, and perfectly in line with current recommendations.
So are many others.
I'd choose your own, as amount of fat vs. carbs isn't that important for most.
Many of the diets with the best health outcomes are as high or higher in carbs than that recommended by MFP (blue zones, for example), and rather than worrying about percentages (which I'd personally ignore in favor of grams, no matter what), what makes more of a difference are the particular sources of carbs and fats.
And yes, I'm read up on this. IMO the argument in favor of low carb being the answer for all is extremely weak and ignores or distorts a lot of the evidence. But we did scapegoating fat, so now it's time to scapegoat carbs, sigh.5 -
dutchandkiwi wrote: »
There fixed it for you. That is where you lost me 100% by refering to the Daily Fail as a newspaper.AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »To add, an article in a British Tabloid and Rag, puts it in black and white.
Ok, but that was just one link. The others also support that information. Are you saying it's any less reliable than the information given by others?
I mean, really? is that your only point....?
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This diet may be great for people who are obese and suffer from diabetes, but the reality is that people basically got overweight for one main reason................over consumption. Stands to logic that if they REDUCE the amount they eat, they will lose weight. And that's where calorie counting comes in.
What you're stating here ISN'T new. There are threads upon threads advocating for a high fat, low carb diet. But what it comes down to in the end is "IS IT SOMETHING I CAN DO FOR LIFE?" cause if it's not, then weight regain is likely to happen.
People will choose what they can stick too. There are lots of people here who've lost weight eating moderate amounts of carbs and look fabulous.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Being born in the mid fifties I have seen the changes in diet advice.
<snip>
Whatever you find works for you is your system and if you can maintain your weight without extremes and feel happy; stick to it. Relying on exercise in my opinion is a very bad thing as if injured your intake is too high and harder to adjust down.
Great post, @boneuf; I too am a mid-late 50's 'child'. I am also Italian, and a trained cook (I won't say 'Chef' as I have never run, supervised or worked in a 'Professional' kitchen) and I was manager of an Italian Deli-cum-bistro for 5 years.
My problem regarding exercise, is that, due to a spinal injury 15 years ago, I have lost partial use of my lower left leg; the sciatic nerve is partly damaged and compromises my movement, which means a lot of sports or exercise is limited, as I can't support my weight on my leg sufficiently to walk, run, jog or do aerobics. A lot of exercise types are closed to me. I can swim, but again, my right leg does most of the work. I can cycle, but I feel a little insecure knowing that if I need to stop suddenly, putting my leg down to maintain balance is going to be risky, be it the left or right....
If anyone can suggest something at this point, I'd welcome input on that score, too!
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This diet may be great for people who are obese and suffer from diabetes, but the reality is that people basically got overweight for one main reason................over consumption. Stands to logic that if they REDUCE the amount they eat, they will lose weight. And that's where calorie counting comes in.
What you're stating here ISN'T new. There are threads upon threads advocating for a high fat, low carb diet. But what it comes down to in the end is "IS IT SOMETHING I CAN DO FOR LIFE?" cause if it's not, then weight regain is likely to happen.
People will choose what they can stick too. There are lots of people here who've lost weight eating moderate amounts of carbs
and look fabulous.
I believe I did say as much in my initial post, too....0 -
AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »Being born in the mid fifties I have seen the changes in diet advice.
<snip>
Whatever you find works for you is your system and if you can maintain your weight without extremes and feel happy; stick to it. Relying on exercise in my opinion is a very bad thing as if injured your intake is too high and harder to adjust down.
Great post, @boneuf; I too am a mid-late 50's 'child'. I am also Italian, and a trained cook (I won't say 'Chef' as I have never run, supervised or worked in a 'Professional' kitchen) and I was manager of an Italian Deli-cum-bistro for 5 years.
My problem regarding exercise, is that, due to a spinal injury 15 years ago, I have lost partial use of my lower left leg; the sciatic nerve is partly damaged and compromises my movement, which means a lot of sports or exercise is limited, as I can't support my weight on my leg sufficiently to walk, run, jog or do aerobics. A lot of exercise types are closed to me. I can swim, but again, my right leg does most of the work. I can cycle, but I feel a little insecure knowing that if I need to stop suddenly, putting my leg down to maintain balance is going to be risky, be it the left or right....
If anyone can suggest something at this point, I'd welcome input on that score, too!
Have you looked into recumbent cycles? They make them for outdoor use and that would take care of balance issues ...1 -
Oh noes...devil carbs!!!!
Never mind that blue zone regions of the world have carb heavy diets...healthiest populations in the world...15 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Oh noes...devil carbs!!!!
Never mind that blue zone regions of the world have carb heavy diets...healthiest populations in the world...
And the 'carb-heavy diets' are... where, exactly?Family – put ahead of other concerns
Less smoking
Semi-vegetarianism – except for the Sardinian diet, the majority of food consumed is derived from plants
Constant moderate physical activity – an inseparable part of life
Social engagement – people of all ages are socially active and integrated into their communities
Legumes – commonly consumed
Buettner in his book provide a list of nine lessons, covering the lifestyle of blue zones people:[11]
Moderate, regular physical activity.
Life purpose.
Stress reduction.
Moderate calories intake.
Plant-based diet.
Moderate alcohol intake, especially wine.
Engagement in spirituality or religion.
Engagement in family life.
Engagement in social life.
From here:0 -
AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »Oh noes...devil carbs!!!!
Never mind that blue zone regions of the world have carb heavy diets...healthiest populations in the world...
And the 'carb-heavy diets' are... where, exactly?Family – put ahead of other concerns
Less smoking
Semi-vegetarianism – except for the Sardinian diet, the majority of food consumed is derived from plants
Constant moderate physical activity – an inseparable part of life
Social engagement – people of all ages are socially active and integrated into their communities
Legumes – commonly consumed
Buettner in his book provide a list of nine lessons, covering the lifestyle of blue zones people:[11]
Moderate, regular physical activity.
Life purpose.
Stress reduction.
Moderate calories intake.
Plant-based diet.
Moderate alcohol intake, especially wine.
Engagement in spirituality or religion.
Engagement in family life.
Engagement in social life.
From here:
Yeah...plenty of carbs in their diets...plant based diets tend to be heavier carb diets...
<<<eats plenty of carbs...is lean, healthy, and fit...very active...mostly whole foods based diet...plenty of carbs from things like oats, legumes, lentils, whole food starches, veg, and fruit....I also eat mostly fish for my "meat" and take in an appropriate amount of fat...6 -
In all things balance. This is not that hard.
1. Eat carbs but make sure that they are the kind of carbs that give real nutritional value and have fiber so that you don't feel hungry again in 10m.
2. Eat fat but not in a way that is wasteful like deep frying things. Eat fats that come with good things like nuts, avocados, cheese, or even bacon.
3. Eat protein, always and often, our bodies process animal proteins best but if you just cannot bare to eat a cube of cheese then go find some nuts or beans.
4. Food that is fresh takes more energy to process than food that is processed for you so eat fresh when you can.
5. Food is fuel but it has both a social and pleasure component and you have to develop methods that allow you to use it as only fuel most of the time so that the times that you use it for social or pleasure do not derail your progress.
Do all the above and you will have a healthy balanced diet that is maintainable long term.5 -
What the world eats
People have decided that carbs are the bad guy lately, and this is the current dogma. Carbs magically turn into body fat. Other foods don't do this. You can eat bacon 24/7 and you'll get skinny and toned, but if you look at a raspberry you'll have to buy two seats on an airplane. Also, if you stop eating gluten you'll gain 20 points on your IQ.
But weight gain comes from overeating and weight loss comes from having a calorie deficit. That's all there is to it. It's actually very simple, it seems way more confusing than it has to be because of all the woo.
I've lost about 75 pounds eating a carb rich diet.18 -
Relying on exercise in my opinion is a very bad thing as if injured your intake is too high and harder to adjust down.
People love to say this, and it makes a bit of sense at first blush. But in reality, it doesn't work like you'd think. For example, I was hit by a car while doing hill repeats on my bike. Wasn't able to walk for a couple of weeks without pain. Wasn't able to do any real exercise for a few months. My appetite shrank tremendously, probably because I suddenly wasn't burning so many calories, and didn't need to eat as many as a result. I kept losing weight through this sad period.1 -
AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »It is true that we don't actually need carbs (the body makes is own sugar from fat and protein), but as you say, carbs are found in a lot of foods that provide nutrients we do need, and those foods tend to be delicious, and people tend to like delicious food.
My point is that Fat per se isn't bad for you, but most dietary recommendations are that you cut it out or restrict intake, to specific fats (such as oils found in flax, olives, avocados and fish). Fats don't need to be reduced or eliminated. It's a globally-accepted premise, due to much influence from the 'wrong' quarters, but it;s a trend that seriously needs reversing.
And it's nothing new, either. But the voices that have needed to be heard, are only just being heard, now.
So interesting to be discussing this with you!
There absolutely was a low fat craze (1980's). But that is old fashioned thinking. I really don't believe most people think that way now.
The low carb brigade has been pretty vocal for decades; true it's on again/off again but it's been around since the 1970's.
I'm not low carb because I know (from experience) that's not how I will maintain.3 -
Moderate, regular physical activity.
Life purpose.
Stress reduction.
Moderate calories intake.
Plant-based diet.
Moderate alcohol intake, especially wine.
Engagement in spirituality or religion.
Engagement in family life.
Engagement in social life.
So regular exercise, not over-eating and a good amount of carbs.
Sounds a pretty reasonable idea to me. Wonder if it will ever catch on?
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Moderate, regular physical activity.
Life purpose.
Stress reduction.
Moderate calories intake.
Plant-based diet.
Moderate alcohol intake, especially wine.
Engagement in spirituality or religion.
Engagement in family life.
Engagement in social life.
So regular exercise, not over-eating and a good a amount of carbs.
Sounds a pretty reasonable idea to me. Wonder if it will ever catch on?
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This discussion has been closed.
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