Sugar addiction

hayleyf6051 wrote: »

Thank you all! Your replies are so helpful. I didn't mean to start the soda debate. My main craving is sugar in sweets/chocolate. Will get a plan of action together!

I find that I have a hard time with milk chocolate. Once I get the flavor in my mouth I have a hard time not finishing off whatever it is that has it in it. A package of trail mix with only dried fruit and nuts will last me a few days. The same size package with milk chocolate or caramel in it may not last a day. But I can keep several bars of dark chocolate around for quite a while. My solution has been to limit the availability of foods that I have trouble with leaving alone. I keep hard candy around rather than soft candy. Dark chocolate instead of milk chocolate. I choose smaller packages over bulk family sized packages. I rarely buy ice cream at the grocery store, choosing rather to make an ice cream shop the destination for a bicycle ride. I almost never drink a soda with sugar in it. I do drink Gatorade and keep it around, but I find that the only time I care for it is when I am drenched in sweat. I find that I have to exercise less willpower if I exercise it at the grocery store rather than after I bring stuff home.

Going back to the OP's question. I drastically cut my sugar intake about 8 months ago. I am on what people might call "the deep end"- I don't eat sweets, fruits, or most grains. It's not a weight thing, my body doesn't react well to big sugar spikes (migraines, stomachaches) and I simply feel better not eating that stuff. Having said that, here is my advice to cut back:
1) cut sugary drinks, this is the easiest way to remove a lot of sugar- soda, juice, milk (11g of sugar in ONE CUP!), and sweetened teas need to go. Diet soda and crystal light are a good way to satisfy the craving if you need to, but try to drink water/unsweetened teas as well
2) READ EVERY LABEL. If you eat a lot of prepackaged/processed food, you're consuming way more corn syrup than you think. It's a shelf stable way to add flavor to foods. Cereal, Yogurt, Pasta sauce (really all premade sauces), breads are all places this stuff hides. Try and look for alternatives that contain less sugar- make your own muffins on the weekends for breakfast, use plain yogurt and add your own fruit, look for pasta sauces without sugar added, etc.
3) Cut empty sugary calories from things like dried fruit. These do you no favors, just eat the regular fruit

From there, you can decide if you want to go further and reduce your intake of certain fruits (bananas, papayas, pineapples, mangoes) and starches. It's a personal choice, and not one I recommend for most people.

A heads up. There is a good chance you're going to feel terrible for the first week or two after you start cutting sugar. The body craves it the same way it craves drugs (source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23719144 ). I recommend keeping around lots of high protein foods to snack on when you feel these cravings (and try to get as much junk out of the house/office as you can before you start). Just remember to stick with it and log your food. The cravings pass in about a week and you'll start to feel better. If you HAVE to eat something sweet, choose fruits. Berries and Melons are great low sugar options, where apples, bananas, and oranges are great sources of fiber. I would avoid mangoes and pineapples here, they're super high in sugar and may just stimulate the craving further.

I hope this helps. Feel free to PM me if you get stuck, and don't over think it. Sugar will not kill you, but lowering your intake is a great step toward a healthier lifestyle AND it opens the door to eating more volume from protein and veggies!!!

I've said this in other posts but I'm a major chocolate addict. I've started making pudding in 1/2 cup servings and having them at night. Then throughout the day, and I would normally eat chocolate throughout the day, I can remind myself that I have pudding waiting for me at home. So far it's worked. I still have the odd little treat but I try to keep it under 170-200 calories and I include it in my daily calorie count. If I go over my daily count I try to forgive myself and start the next day fresh.

@ninerbuff Where? I'd love to be able to read them. Only recently started using these forums so not terribly familiar yet.

How about general food addiction vs. simply a sugar addiction. It all comes down to food and maybe if you educate yourself on the science and/or biology behind it, you'll have a better understanding and will be better prepared to eliminate it.

Food addiction is essentially no different than drug addiction. Certain foods, especially those whose calories are absorbed very rapidly, signal the reward centers of the brain, causing dopamine to be released as these foods are eaten. The trouble-causing foods include:

•Processed/refined foods, especially sweets
•High-fat foods or other high-calorie foods, such as fried food
•Excessive salt
•Higher-fat animal products

Although dopamine is involved in many processes in the body, it also gives you a feeling of euphoria or a “high.” Just as addictive drugs, that can give you a “high,” the euphoria of dopamine is short-lived and can be followed by a “low” that causes depression, lack of pleasure, fatigue, and difficulty concentrating.

In addition to the effects addictive foods have on brain neurotransmitters, the build-up of metabolic wastes from eating unhealthful foods also complicates and contributes to addictive overeating. This is because withdrawal discomfort from metabolic toxins occurs in the non-feeding, non-digestive state, driving unhealthful eaters to eat too frequently to quell ill feelings, particularly fatigue, headache, and stomach cramping.

It is physically painful to stop smoking, drinking, and eating unhealthy foods. The feelings of shakiness, nausea, headaches, stomach cramping, fatigue, and uneasiness that make people feel they have to eat something are the result of detoxification symptoms from eating unhealthful food.

To conquer food addiction permanently, you must avoid highly flavored and calorically concentrated processed foods. You need to flood the body with high-nutrient foods to normalize detoxification channels.

When we experience this variety of neurologic and metabolic side effects from eating unhealthy foods, it can create unfavorable symptoms, such as:

•Anxiety
•Impaired emotions and thoughts
•Impulsiveness
•Aggression
•Compulsiveness
•Lack of self-control

Food addiction fuels our nation’s health care crisis and obesity epidemic. The answer to keeping our natural potential for food addiction under control is to eat more natural, whole plant foods. Adopting a Nutritarian diet-style allows for a comfortable, and satisfied feeling, yet avoids the extreme “highs” and “lows” of low-micronutrient eating. This allows us to enjoy our food when we eat it, and then later have the ability to enjoy other parts of our lives, without being distracted by the effects of food addiction and its associated ill feelings.

Low-nutrient, high-glycemic foods are also associated with depressed mood, making life more difficult for the food addict. Abstaining from unhealthy, addictive foods is hard at first, but doing so brings tremendous benefits.

amyepdx wrote: »

cushman5279 wrote: »

How about general food addiction vs. simply a sugar addiction. It all comes down to food and maybe if you educate yourself on the science and/or biology behind it, you'll have a better understanding and will be better prepared to eliminate it.

Food addiction is essentially no different than drug addiction. Certain foods, especially those whose calories are absorbed very rapidly, signal the reward centers of the brain, causing dopamine to be released as these foods are eaten. The trouble-causing foods include:

•Processed/refined foods, especially sweets
•High-fat foods or other high-calorie foods, such as fried food
•Excessive salt
•Higher-fat animal products

Although dopamine is involved in many processes in the body, it also gives you a feeling of euphoria or a “high.” Just as addictive drugs, that can give you a “high,” the euphoria of dopamine is short-lived and can be followed by a “low” that causes depression, lack of pleasure, fatigue, and difficulty concentrating.

In addition to the effects addictive foods have on brain neurotransmitters, the build-up of metabolic wastes from eating unhealthful foods also complicates and contributes to addictive overeating. This is because withdrawal discomfort from metabolic toxins occurs in the non-feeding, non-digestive state, driving unhealthful eaters to eat too frequently to quell ill feelings, particularly fatigue, headache, and stomach cramping.

It is physically painful to stop smoking, drinking, and eating unhealthy foods. The feelings of shakiness, nausea, headaches, stomach cramping, fatigue, and uneasiness that make people feel they have to eat something are the result of detoxification symptoms from eating unhealthful food.

To conquer food addiction permanently, you must avoid highly flavored and calorically concentrated processed foods. You need to flood the body with high-nutrient foods to normalize detoxification channels.

When we experience this variety of neurologic and metabolic side effects from eating unhealthy foods, it can create unfavorable symptoms, such as:

•Anxiety
•Impaired emotions and thoughts
•Impulsiveness
•Aggression
•Compulsiveness
•Lack of self-control

Food addiction fuels our nation’s health care crisis and obesity epidemic. The answer to keeping our natural potential for food addiction under control is to eat more natural, whole plant foods. Adopting a Nutritarian diet-style allows for a comfortable, and satisfied feeling, yet avoids the extreme “highs” and “lows” of low-micronutrient eating. This allows us to enjoy our food when we eat it, and then later have the ability to enjoy other parts of our lives, without being distracted by the effects of food addiction and its associated ill feelings.

Low-nutrient, high-glycemic foods are also associated with depressed mood, making life more difficult for the food addict. Abstaining from unhealthy, addictive foods is hard at first, but doing so brings tremendous benefits.

So you're saying there is french fry or mac & cheese (neither of which is inherent "unhealthy") withdrawal?

She's quoting someone else.

I want to know what the metabolic toxins are, but that's derailing the thread.

I'm glad the OP is going to follow the good advice from lemurcat12.

GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »

cushman5279 wrote: »

How about general food addiction vs. simply a sugar addiction. It all comes down to food and maybe if you educate yourself on the science and/or biology behind it, you'll have a better understanding and will be better prepared to eliminate it.

Food addiction is essentially no different than drug addiction. Certain foods, especially those whose calories are absorbed very rapidly, signal the reward centers of the brain, causing dopamine to be released as these foods are eaten. The trouble-causing foods include:

•Processed/refined foods, especially sweets
•High-fat foods or other high-calorie foods, such as fried food
•Excessive salt
•Higher-fat animal products

Although dopamine is involved in many processes in the body, it also gives you a feeling of euphoria or a “high.” Just as addictive drugs, that can give you a “high,” the euphoria of dopamine is short-lived and can be followed by a “low” that causes depression, lack of pleasure, fatigue, and difficulty concentrating.

In addition to the effects addictive foods have on brain neurotransmitters, the build-up of metabolic wastes from eating unhealthful foods also complicates and contributes to addictive overeating. This is because withdrawal discomfort from metabolic toxins occurs in the non-feeding, non-digestive state, driving unhealthful eaters to eat too frequently to quell ill feelings, particularly fatigue, headache, and stomach cramping.

It is physically painful to stop smoking, drinking, and eating unhealthy foods. The feelings of shakiness, nausea, headaches, stomach cramping, fatigue, and uneasiness that make people feel they have to eat something are the result of detoxification symptoms from eating unhealthful food.

To conquer food addiction permanently, you must avoid highly flavored and calorically concentrated processed foods. You need to flood the body with high-nutrient foods to normalize detoxification channels.

When we experience this variety of neurologic and metabolic side effects from eating unhealthy foods, it can create unfavorable symptoms, such as:

•Anxiety
•Impaired emotions and thoughts
•Impulsiveness
•Aggression
•Compulsiveness
•Lack of self-control

Food addiction fuels our nation’s health care crisis and obesity epidemic. The answer to keeping our natural potential for food addiction under control is to eat more natural, whole plant foods. Adopting a Nutritarian diet-style allows for a comfortable, and satisfied feeling, yet avoids the extreme “highs” and “lows” of low-micronutrient eating. This allows us to enjoy our food when we eat it, and then later have the ability to enjoy other parts of our lives, without being distracted by the effects of food addiction and its associated ill feelings.

Low-nutrient, high-glycemic foods are also associated with depressed mood, making life more difficult for the food addict. Abstaining from unhealthy, addictive foods is hard at first, but doing so brings tremendous benefits.

When you quote some diet guru (endorsed by Dr. Oz, even!) with an agenda, it's customary to quote your source:

https://www.drfuhrman.com/learn/health-concerns/70/food-addiction

Thanks Gottaburnemall! I forgot to quote the source, my bad.

GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »

cushman5279 wrote: »

Not trying to derail the thread and sorry I forgot to site my source. Just giving a different perspective. Addiction is addiction and sugar is a food so just opening the door to other schools of thought on the matter. And no, Amyepdx, I am not saying that any food is healthy or unhealthy but by now I think we all know what's good for us and what's not. I don't think losing weight has anything to do with food choice, rather it has everything to do with food amount. My opinion only. But sugar addiction (food addiction) is another animal If you research the article and other sources it's clear that there is such a thing as physical and mental withdrawal symptoms from eliminating toxins and chemicals and other things like that... including alcohol, tobacco, etc. I don't think it's the specific food but what's in the food that creates the addiction and withdrawal.

Come to the debate section, to Food Addiction - A Different Perspective. I'd love to hear what specifically is in food that you think is "toxic" and addictive.

Cool thanks! I will!!

Carlos_421 wrote: »

amyepdx wrote: »

cushman5279 wrote: »

How about general food addiction vs. simply a sugar addiction. It all comes down to food and maybe if you educate yourself on the science and/or biology behind it, you'll have a better understanding and will be better prepared to eliminate it.

Food addiction is essentially no different than drug addiction. Certain foods, especially those whose calories are absorbed very rapidly, signal the reward centers of the brain, causing dopamine to be released as these foods are eaten. The trouble-causing foods include:

•Processed/refined foods, especially sweets
•High-fat foods or other high-calorie foods, such as fried food
•Excessive salt
•Higher-fat animal products

Although dopamine is involved in many processes in the body, it also gives you a feeling of euphoria or a “high.” Just as addictive drugs, that can give you a “high,” the euphoria of dopamine is short-lived and can be followed by a “low” that causes depression, lack of pleasure, fatigue, and difficulty concentrating.

In addition to the effects addictive foods have on brain neurotransmitters, the build-up of metabolic wastes from eating unhealthful foods also complicates and contributes to addictive overeating. This is because withdrawal discomfort from metabolic toxins occurs in the non-feeding, non-digestive state, driving unhealthful eaters to eat too frequently to quell ill feelings, particularly fatigue, headache, and stomach cramping.

It is physically painful to stop smoking, drinking, and eating unhealthy foods. The feelings of shakiness, nausea, headaches, stomach cramping, fatigue, and uneasiness that make people feel they have to eat something are the result of detoxification symptoms from eating unhealthful food.

To conquer food addiction permanently, you must avoid highly flavored and calorically concentrated processed foods. You need to flood the body with high-nutrient foods to normalize detoxification channels.

When we experience this variety of neurologic and metabolic side effects from eating unhealthy foods, it can create unfavorable symptoms, such as:

•Anxiety
•Impaired emotions and thoughts
•Impulsiveness
•Aggression
•Compulsiveness
•Lack of self-control

Food addiction fuels our nation’s health care crisis and obesity epidemic. The answer to keeping our natural potential for food addiction under control is to eat more natural, whole plant foods. Adopting a Nutritarian diet-style allows for a comfortable, and satisfied feeling, yet avoids the extreme “highs” and “lows” of low-micronutrient eating. This allows us to enjoy our food when we eat it, and then later have the ability to enjoy other parts of our lives, without being distracted by the effects of food addiction and its associated ill feelings.

Low-nutrient, high-glycemic foods are also associated with depressed mood, making life more difficult for the food addict. Abstaining from unhealthy, addictive foods is hard at first, but doing so brings tremendous benefits.

So you're saying there is french fry or mac & cheese (neither of which is inherent "unhealthy") withdrawal?

No, she's not saying that. The quack she plagiarized is though.

First of all, if you bothered to actually read, and not just skim responses, you would see that clearly I did not plagiarize and was quick to respond with regard to forgetting to add the source. Second, just because one has an opinion that's different from yours does not make them a quack. People who are strong, intelligent and caring have an open mind and tend to lift one another up, not bring each other down. I am glad I know which side of that fence you're on. Have a glorious day

Carlos_421 wrote: »

cushman5279 wrote: »

Carlos_421 wrote: »

amyepdx wrote: »

cushman5279 wrote: »

How about general food addiction vs. simply a sugar addiction. It all comes down to food and maybe if you educate yourself on the science and/or biology behind it, you'll have a better understanding and will be better prepared to eliminate it.

Food addiction is essentially no different than drug addiction. Certain foods, especially those whose calories are absorbed very rapidly, signal the reward centers of the brain, causing dopamine to be released as these foods are eaten. The trouble-causing foods include:

•Processed/refined foods, especially sweets
•High-fat foods or other high-calorie foods, such as fried food
•Excessive salt
•Higher-fat animal products

Although dopamine is involved in many processes in the body, it also gives you a feeling of euphoria or a “high.” Just as addictive drugs, that can give you a “high,” the euphoria of dopamine is short-lived and can be followed by a “low” that causes depression, lack of pleasure, fatigue, and difficulty concentrating.

In addition to the effects addictive foods have on brain neurotransmitters, the build-up of metabolic wastes from eating unhealthful foods also complicates and contributes to addictive overeating. This is because withdrawal discomfort from metabolic toxins occurs in the non-feeding, non-digestive state, driving unhealthful eaters to eat too frequently to quell ill feelings, particularly fatigue, headache, and stomach cramping.

It is physically painful to stop smoking, drinking, and eating unhealthy foods. The feelings of shakiness, nausea, headaches, stomach cramping, fatigue, and uneasiness that make people feel they have to eat something are the result of detoxification symptoms from eating unhealthful food.

To conquer food addiction permanently, you must avoid highly flavored and calorically concentrated processed foods. You need to flood the body with high-nutrient foods to normalize detoxification channels.

When we experience this variety of neurologic and metabolic side effects from eating unhealthy foods, it can create unfavorable symptoms, such as:

•Anxiety
•Impaired emotions and thoughts
•Impulsiveness
•Aggression
•Compulsiveness
•Lack of self-control

Food addiction fuels our nation’s health care crisis and obesity epidemic. The answer to keeping our natural potential for food addiction under control is to eat more natural, whole plant foods. Adopting a Nutritarian diet-style allows for a comfortable, and satisfied feeling, yet avoids the extreme “highs” and “lows” of low-micronutrient eating. This allows us to enjoy our food when we eat it, and then later have the ability to enjoy other parts of our lives, without being distracted by the effects of food addiction and its associated ill feelings.

Low-nutrient, high-glycemic foods are also associated with depressed mood, making life more difficult for the food addict. Abstaining from unhealthy, addictive foods is hard at first, but doing so brings tremendous benefits.

So you're saying there is french fry or mac & cheese (neither of which is inherent "unhealthy") withdrawal?

No, she's not saying that. The quack she plagiarized is though.

First of all, if you bothered to actually read, and not just skim responses, you would see that clearly I did not plagiarize and was quick to respond with regard to forgetting to add the source. Second, just because one has an opinion that's different from yours does not make them a quack. People who are strong, intelligent and caring have an open mind and tend to lift one another up, not bring each other down. I am glad I know which side of that fence you're on. Have a glorious day

You're response was not there when I was typing mine so I offer my apologies.

But yes, he's a quack.
Different opinions make individuals. Different facts make quacks.

No problem.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

elphie754 wrote: »

cushman5279 wrote: »

Carlos_421 wrote: »

cushman5279 wrote: »

Carlos_421 wrote: »

amyepdx wrote: »

cushman5279 wrote: »

How about general food addiction vs. simply a sugar addiction. It all comes down to food and maybe if you educate yourself on the science and/or biology behind it, you'll have a better understanding and will be better prepared to eliminate it.

Food addiction is essentially no different than drug addiction. Certain foods, especially those whose calories are absorbed very rapidly, signal the reward centers of the brain, causing dopamine to be released as these foods are eaten. The trouble-causing foods include:

•Processed/refined foods, especially sweets
•High-fat foods or other high-calorie foods, such as fried food
•Excessive salt
•Higher-fat animal products

Although dopamine is involved in many processes in the body, it also gives you a feeling of euphoria or a “high.” Just as addictive drugs, that can give you a “high,” the euphoria of dopamine is short-lived and can be followed by a “low” that causes depression, lack of pleasure, fatigue, and difficulty concentrating.

In addition to the effects addictive foods have on brain neurotransmitters, the build-up of metabolic wastes from eating unhealthful foods also complicates and contributes to addictive overeating. This is because withdrawal discomfort from metabolic toxins occurs in the non-feeding, non-digestive state, driving unhealthful eaters to eat too frequently to quell ill feelings, particularly fatigue, headache, and stomach cramping.

It is physically painful to stop smoking, drinking, and eating unhealthy foods. The feelings of shakiness, nausea, headaches, stomach cramping, fatigue, and uneasiness that make people feel they have to eat something are the result of detoxification symptoms from eating unhealthful food.

To conquer food addiction permanently, you must avoid highly flavored and calorically concentrated processed foods. You need to flood the body with high-nutrient foods to normalize detoxification channels.

When we experience this variety of neurologic and metabolic side effects from eating unhealthy foods, it can create unfavorable symptoms, such as:

•Anxiety
•Impaired emotions and thoughts
•Impulsiveness
•Aggression
•Compulsiveness
•Lack of self-control

Food addiction fuels our nation’s health care crisis and obesity epidemic. The answer to keeping our natural potential for food addiction under control is to eat more natural, whole plant foods. Adopting a Nutritarian diet-style allows for a comfortable, and satisfied feeling, yet avoids the extreme “highs” and “lows” of low-micronutrient eating. This allows us to enjoy our food when we eat it, and then later have the ability to enjoy other parts of our lives, without being distracted by the effects of food addiction and its associated ill feelings.

Low-nutrient, high-glycemic foods are also associated with depressed mood, making life more difficult for the food addict. Abstaining from unhealthy, addictive foods is hard at first, but doing so brings tremendous benefits.

So you're saying there is french fry or mac & cheese (neither of which is inherent "unhealthy") withdrawal?

No, she's not saying that. The quack she plagiarized is though.

First of all, if you bothered to actually read, and not just skim responses, you would see that clearly I did not plagiarize and was quick to respond with regard to forgetting to add the source. Second, just because one has an opinion that's different from yours does not make them a quack. People who are strong, intelligent and caring have an open mind and tend to lift one another up, not bring each other down. I am glad I know which side of that fence you're on. Have a glorious day

You're response was not there when I was typing mine so I offer my apologies.

But yes, he's a quack.
Different opinions make individuals. Different facts make quacks.

No problem.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

But they are not entitled to their own facts.

What the actual F does this even mean? Like, why would even put this here? It has no bearing what so ever on the original post or conversation that followed... really? I can't even....

cushman5279 wrote: »

elphie754 wrote: »

cushman5279 wrote: »

Carlos_421 wrote: »

cushman5279 wrote: »

Carlos_421 wrote: »

amyepdx wrote: »

cushman5279 wrote: »

How about general food addiction vs. simply a sugar addiction. It all comes down to food and maybe if you educate yourself on the science and/or biology behind it, you'll have a better understanding and will be better prepared to eliminate it.

Food addiction is essentially no different than drug addiction. Certain foods, especially those whose calories are absorbed very rapidly, signal the reward centers of the brain, causing dopamine to be released as these foods are eaten. The trouble-causing foods include:

•Processed/refined foods, especially sweets
•High-fat foods or other high-calorie foods, such as fried food
•Excessive salt
•Higher-fat animal products

Although dopamine is involved in many processes in the body, it also gives you a feeling of euphoria or a “high.” Just as addictive drugs, that can give you a “high,” the euphoria of dopamine is short-lived and can be followed by a “low” that causes depression, lack of pleasure, fatigue, and difficulty concentrating.

In addition to the effects addictive foods have on brain neurotransmitters, the build-up of metabolic wastes from eating unhealthful foods also complicates and contributes to addictive overeating. This is because withdrawal discomfort from metabolic toxins occurs in the non-feeding, non-digestive state, driving unhealthful eaters to eat too frequently to quell ill feelings, particularly fatigue, headache, and stomach cramping.

It is physically painful to stop smoking, drinking, and eating unhealthy foods. The feelings of shakiness, nausea, headaches, stomach cramping, fatigue, and uneasiness that make people feel they have to eat something are the result of detoxification symptoms from eating unhealthful food.

To conquer food addiction permanently, you must avoid highly flavored and calorically concentrated processed foods. You need to flood the body with high-nutrient foods to normalize detoxification channels.

When we experience this variety of neurologic and metabolic side effects from eating unhealthy foods, it can create unfavorable symptoms, such as:

•Anxiety
•Impaired emotions and thoughts
•Impulsiveness
•Aggression
•Compulsiveness
•Lack of self-control

Food addiction fuels our nation’s health care crisis and obesity epidemic. The answer to keeping our natural potential for food addiction under control is to eat more natural, whole plant foods. Adopting a Nutritarian diet-style allows for a comfortable, and satisfied feeling, yet avoids the extreme “highs” and “lows” of low-micronutrient eating. This allows us to enjoy our food when we eat it, and then later have the ability to enjoy other parts of our lives, without being distracted by the effects of food addiction and its associated ill feelings.

Low-nutrient, high-glycemic foods are also associated with depressed mood, making life more difficult for the food addict. Abstaining from unhealthy, addictive foods is hard at first, but doing so brings tremendous benefits.

So you're saying there is french fry or mac & cheese (neither of which is inherent "unhealthy") withdrawal?

No, she's not saying that. The quack she plagiarized is though.

First of all, if you bothered to actually read, and not just skim responses, you would see that clearly I did not plagiarize and was quick to respond with regard to forgetting to add the source. Second, just because one has an opinion that's different from yours does not make them a quack. People who are strong, intelligent and caring have an open mind and tend to lift one another up, not bring each other down. I am glad I know which side of that fence you're on. Have a glorious day

You're response was not there when I was typing mine so I offer my apologies.

But yes, he's a quack.
Different opinions make individuals. Different facts make quacks.

No problem.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

But they are not entitled to their own facts.

What the actual F does this even mean? Like, why would even put this here? It has no bearing what so ever on the original post or conversation that followed... really? I can't even....

It kind of does. You made a lot of fact claims in that post. If others have reason to believe that those fact claims are false, then it isn't just a matter of differing opinions. It's a matter of correct or incorrect.

And that makes this a great time to take it over to the Debate forum!