Rack pulls Vs. Deadlift

Troutsy
Troutsy Posts: 275 Member
edited November 16 in Fitness and Exercise
Now I know there is no true substitute for the deadlift..

I started back at strong lifts after being away from the gym for awhile and I'm having trouble with my form on my deadlifts. I know I need to work on my flexibility and form and I'm wondering for the time being would rack pull be a decent temporary substitute. That way I can do the rack pulls when I do my strong lifts and then work on my flexibility for my deadlifts.. if that makes any sense.

I'm not sure if it's easy to transition from a rack pull to the deadlift or if it's even worth it to worry about
«1

Replies

  • StealthHealth
    StealthHealth Posts: 2,417 Member
    I think that that compromise sounds reasonable if you have issues with DL.

    What I would say is that you should get some quality PT analysis on the deadlift form and issues and talk to them specifically about which areas are preventing proper form.
  • AllanMisner
    AllanMisner Posts: 4,140 Member
    edited March 2017
    Yes, that does sound like a good substitute for the time being. A deadlift with poor form is a bad thing. But while you're in the gym, get a pvc pipe or broom handle and practice the form of the deadlift.

  • StealthHealth
    StealthHealth Posts: 2,417 Member
    Do you also have flexibility issues which cause you problems in the squat? I think that is more common? Just wondering.
  • Troutsy
    Troutsy Posts: 275 Member
    StealthHealth wrote: »
    Do you also have flexibility issues which cause you problems in the squat? I think that is more common? Just wondering.

    Surprisingly no lol. My squats are good and I can go below parallel no problem. I have some good PTs at my gym and I think I have a free session with one. I'll def set an appointment.
  • Troutsy
    Troutsy Posts: 275 Member
    AllanMisner wrote: »
    Yes, that does sound like a good substitute for the time being. A deadlift with poor form is a bad thing. But while you're in the gym, get a pvc pipe or broom handle and practice the form of the deadlift.

    Allan Misner
    NASM Certified Personal Trainer
    Host - 40+ Fitness Podcast

    I've seen the PVC piping at the gym and I have a broom at home I can practice with. Thank you.
  • CarlydogsMom
    CarlydogsMom Posts: 645 Member
    I generally do rack pulls now that I don't have a trainer watching me closely--but my situation is likely different (54 yr-old F, with long-standing back issues). I found I tend to lift more weight doing rack pulls than I can deadlifting, but there's def a missing component on that very first few inches that are added in full deadlifts. BUT...it's safer for me and I'm ok with that.

    What I've also noticed is that my form is better using the trap-bar (or hex-bar? the open cage you step into) for deadlifts when I do feel OK going lower. Trap-bar deads seem to promote better form for me; may want to try that as well?
  • Troutsy
    Troutsy Posts: 275 Member
    Interesting... I've never tried the hex bars before. I know there is one, maybe I can give that one a try. Thanks for the idea
  • _incogNEATo_
    _incogNEATo_ Posts: 4,537 Member
    How many deadlift sessions are you truly going to miss while working on form and flexibility? I think that rack pulls are a good accessory, but you even recognize yourself that it's NOT a substitute. If you're using lighter weights (which you should be) to work on form, then it shouldn't hurt to continue doing deadlifts. As you do them, you'll catch on to more cues for form and your flexibility will increase. I still tweak my form from time to time.

    Would you mind explaining what kind of flexibility issues you're referring to?
  • erickirb
    erickirb Posts: 12,294 Member
    _incogNEATo_ wrote: »
    How many deadlift sessions are you truly going to miss while working on form and flexibility? I think that rack pulls are a good accessory, but you even recognize yourself that it's NOT a substitute. If you're using lighter weights (which you should be) to work on form, then it shouldn't hurt to continue doing deadlifts. As you do them, you'll catch on to more cues for form and your flexibility will increase. I still tweak my form from time to time.

    Would you mind explaining what kind of flexibility issues you're referring to?

    I am trying to get my head around that too. Deadlift plane of movement doesn't require a lot of flexibility, unlike the squat.
  • Troutsy
    Troutsy Posts: 275 Member
    I do use lighter weights for the deads but I noticed that I am extremely stiff when I get into the starting position ( I'm guessing it's my hamstings) and I have a hard time keeping my back straight.
  • JohnnyPenso
    JohnnyPenso Posts: 412 Member
    edited March 2017
    If you're starting on SL again, you should be going fairly light on the DL so I'd engage a personal trainer and work on your form while you work with lighter weights to build all the stabilizer muscles while you work up closer to your max weight. The trap bar or hex bar is an excellent alternative to the traditional straight bar as it takes makes your back somewhat less of an issue, but be cautious in jumping back to the straight bar at the same weight as your back won't be ready for it and you'll have to drop back quite a bit in weight and work up again.
  • ew_david
    ew_david Posts: 3,473 Member
    Awolturtle wrote: »
    I do use lighter weights for the deads but I noticed that I am extremely stiff when I get into the starting position ( I'm guessing it's my hamstings) and I have a hard time keeping my back straight.

    That's kind of odd considering, with the SL program, DL usually comes last in the lineup, therefore you'd be well warmed up. Or are you doing them first? What kind of DL are you doing? Conventional, sumo, something else?
  • TR0berts
    TR0berts Posts: 7,739 Member
    Awolturtle wrote: »
    I do use lighter weights for the deads but I noticed that I am extremely stiff when I get into the starting position ( I'm guessing it's my hamstings) and I have a hard time keeping my back straight.


    Do you have the bar at the proper height? It should be 8.75-9 inches (measured at the center, IIRC) from the floor. If you have it lower, then that would explain why you're having difficulty.

    If that's the case, and you need to raise it some, then put some plates flat under the loaded plates to raise it to the correct height. I wouldn't worry about trying to get the exact height - 8.5" or 9.5" is likely close enough for now.

    But rack pulls - I find - are significantly different and not a proper substitute in most cases.
  • Troutsy
    Troutsy Posts: 275 Member
    _dracarys_ wrote: »
    Awolturtle wrote: »
    I do use lighter weights for the deads but I noticed that I am extremely stiff when I get into the starting position ( I'm guessing it's my hamstings) and I have a hard time keeping my back straight.

    That's kind of odd considering, with the SL program, DL usually comes last in the lineup, therefore you'd be well warmed up. Or are you doing them first? What kind of DL are you doing? Conventional, sumo, something else?

    I know I'm an anomaly lol. I'm doing them last in my work out but now that I'm thinking about what @TR0berts said, my bar may be too low in the first place. I do conventional deadlifts (I have tried sumo in the past ) I started out at the 95 pounds the program starts out at.
  • ew_david
    ew_david Posts: 3,473 Member
    Awolturtle wrote: »
    _dracarys_ wrote: »
    Awolturtle wrote: »
    I do use lighter weights for the deads but I noticed that I am extremely stiff when I get into the starting position ( I'm guessing it's my hamstings) and I have a hard time keeping my back straight.

    That's kind of odd considering, with the SL program, DL usually comes last in the lineup, therefore you'd be well warmed up. Or are you doing them first? What kind of DL are you doing? Conventional, sumo, something else?

    I know I'm an anomaly lol. I'm doing them last in my work out but now that I'm thinking about what @TR0berts said, my bar may be too low in the first place. I do conventional deadlifts (I have tried sumo in the past ) I started out at the 95 pounds the program starts out at.

    Ohh gotcha. Yeah, if you're not using bumper plates, the regular 25s would put the bar lower than it should be.
  • Troutsy
    Troutsy Posts: 275 Member
    _dracarys_ wrote: »
    Awolturtle wrote: »
    _dracarys_ wrote: »
    Awolturtle wrote: »
    I do use lighter weights for the deads but I noticed that I am extremely stiff when I get into the starting position ( I'm guessing it's my hamstings) and I have a hard time keeping my back straight.

    That's kind of odd considering, with the SL program, DL usually comes last in the lineup, therefore you'd be well warmed up. Or are you doing them first? What kind of DL are you doing? Conventional, sumo, something else?

    I know I'm an anomaly lol. I'm doing them last in my work out but now that I'm thinking about what @TR0berts said, my bar may be too low in the first place. I do conventional deadlifts (I have tried sumo in the past ) I started out at the 95 pounds the program starts out at.

    Ohh gotcha. Yeah, if you're not using bumper plates, the regular 25s would put the bar lower than it should be.

    I don't deadlift again until Friday but I will try sliding some plates underneath to raise the bar up a little. I honestly feel kind of dumb if that's the issue. I don't remember having this issue the last time I did SL.
  • not_a_runner
    not_a_runner Posts: 1,343 Member
    When I pull from a deficit (similar to having 25 lb plates on the bar) it always feels awkward and my position doesn't feel quite right. I'm guessing that's your issue here as well.
    A rack pull or box pull could work to get the bar higher. The lowest rack setting in my gym is pretty high though, which again changes up your form from the standard bar height.
    (Most people can also deadlift much heavier from a rack/box, so keep that in mind when switching back to the floor, you may want to drop some more weight.)
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    I have mobility issues and can't deadlift off the floor without rounding my back so I put 2 step risers under each side to raise the bar a few inches higher
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    Rack pulls will not substitute- nor help you if you have problems at the bottom of the lift.

    Rack pull is designed to help strengthen lock out and glute activation.

    You'd be far better off working with a broom stick/pvc pipe- altering so you're pulling at a lower height that's still closer to the floor than a rack pull.

    You want something to help get you to the traditional height for set up- rather than starting high and working back down.
  • Troutsy
    Troutsy Posts: 275 Member
    Thank you @JoRocka , @singingflutelady and @TresaAswegan. I will look around my gym to see if they have some mini risers or I can build up with some plates to get the bar a little higher (at least to where a 45lbs plate will sit), but not high enough for a rack pull.
  • SonyaCele
    SonyaCele Posts: 2,841 Member
    like jorocka says, a rack pull isn't gonna help you with getting your conventional DL off the floor.

    you can also work on DL with a kettelbell, and if you need to you can straddle a step up and raise and lower the KB onto the step up.
    my opinion a broomstick isn't gonna be ideal because you really need weight on the bar to act as a counter balance and some resistance to pull against.
    if you gotta work on mobility, do that separate from your DL movement. Then do your DL with a little weight, just enough to create some resistance, but not so much that you struggle to lift it.

  • Shawshankcan
    Shawshankcan Posts: 900 Member
    The PVC or broom stick idea is nonesense. It is easy to keep text book form with no weight, but as soon as weight is added, you will adapt your form. Also, rack pulls, while similar, do have a different form to them and different set up.

    One final thing, there are many wrong ways to deadlift, but there are also many ways to deadlift properly, depending on your body type and leverages.
  • rollerjog
    rollerjog Posts: 154 Member
    i think deadlifts have there place in lifting are they nessasary maybe maybe not if your a powerlifter then yes, for me im not a powerlifter so i dont do them, i do sdl rdl rack pulls, if you do use dl and your pulling anywear from 300 to 1200 pounds off the ground make sure you have great form and know what your doing good luck
  • jennybearlv
    jennybearlv Posts: 1,519 Member
    Does your gym have bumper plates? I have 10 lb bumpers that are awesome for getting the bar at the right height without adding much weight. If not the idea of raising your bar up on plates or steps is a good alternative.
  • JB035
    JB035 Posts: 336 Member
    TR0berts wrote: »
    Awolturtle wrote: »
    I do use lighter weights for the deads but I noticed that I am extremely stiff when I get into the starting position ( I'm guessing it's my hamstings) and I have a hard time keeping my back straight.


    Do you have the bar at the proper height? It should be 8.75-9 inches (measured at the center, IIRC) from the floor. If you have it lower, then that would explain why you're having difficulty.

    If that's the case, and you need to raise it some, then put some plates flat under the loaded plates to raise it to the correct height. I wouldn't worry about trying to get the exact height - 8.5" or 9.5" is likely close enough for now.

    But rack pulls - I find - are significantly different and not a proper substitute in most cases.

    Nailed it! I was going to say the same thing.
  • Troutsy
    Troutsy Posts: 275 Member
    jennybearlv wrote: »
    Does your gym have bumper plates? I have 10 lb bumpers that are awesome for getting the bar at the right height without adding much weight. If not the idea of raising your bar up on plates or steps is a good alternative.

    I don't think there are bumper plates, but I also haven't really looked around for them. I'll ask one of the staff when I'm in tomorrow morning.
  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,097 Member
    edited March 2017
    Troutsy wrote: »
    Now I know there is no true substitute for the deadlift..

    I started back at strong lifts after being away from the gym for awhile and I'm having trouble with my form on my deadlifts. I know I need to work on my flexibility and form and I'm wondering for the time being would rack pull be a decent temporary substitute. That way I can do the rack pulls when I do my strong lifts and then work on my flexibility for my deadlifts.. if that makes any sense.

    I'm not sure if it's easy to transition from a rack pull to the deadlift or if it's even worth it to worry about

    While rack pulls have their place, this situation isn't the one.

    Flexibility more than likely isn't the problem with your deads, body awareness with proper setup usually is the culprit.. Virtually anybody can deadlift with good form in 15 minutes if they have a great coach to show them how to adjust their body into the right position.

    Search out Rippetoe's setup to the deadlift if your pulling conventional and that should help.

  • Chieflrg
    Chieflrg Posts: 9,097 Member
    rollerjog wrote: »
    i think deadlifts have there place in lifting are they nessasary maybe maybe not if your a powerlifter then yes, for me im not a powerlifter so i dont do them, i do sdl rdl rack pulls, if you do use dl and your pulling anywear from 300 to 1200 pounds off the ground make sure you have great form and know what your doing good luck
    Deadlifts are a huge part of powerlifting, but they should absolutely be a staple of any person interested in strength training.
  • Troutsy
    Troutsy Posts: 275 Member
    Chieflrg wrote: »
    Troutsy wrote: »
    Now I know there is no true substitute for the deadlift..

    I started back at strong lifts after being away from the gym for awhile and I'm having trouble with my form on my deadlifts. I know I need to work on my flexibility and form and I'm wondering for the time being would rack pull be a decent temporary substitute. That way I can do the rack pulls when I do my strong lifts and then work on my flexibility for my deadlifts.. if that makes any sense.

    I'm not sure if it's easy to transition from a rack pull to the deadlift or if it's even worth it to worry about


    Search out Rippetoe's setup to the deadlift if your pulling conventional and that should help.

    I'll make sure to look at his YouTube videos when I get home from work. (My employer blocks YouTube on the network for some stupid reason.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    rollerjog wrote: »
    i think deadlifts have there place in lifting are they nessasary maybe maybe not if your a powerlifter then yes, for me im not a powerlifter so i dont do them, i do sdl rdl rack pulls, if you do use dl and your pulling anywear from 300 to 1200 pounds off the ground make sure you have great form and know what your doing good luck

    There are a handful of reasons to not DL- the bolded one isn't one of them.
This discussion has been closed.

Categories