"Now that I'm in keto, I'm burning fat- you're burning glucose"

EmbeeKay
EmbeeKay Posts: 249 Member
edited November 16 in Food and Nutrition
I'm not here to start a debate over keto vs calorie restriction. My husband does keto and loves it, it's not for me. I need to be able to eat any type of food I want and calorie counting makes that possible for me.

But I was hoping you guys could clear something up for me. I was talking to another friend, and she was raving about the keto diet she is on. I told her it wasn't for me and that I was counting calories instead. She said, "Well, I am burning fat since I'm in ketosis, you are burning glucose."

How does this work??? Does her body, in ketosis, having few carbs to burn for energy, begin burning its fat stores sooner in the day? Versus my body, happily using its oatmeal and baked potato, etc., for energy, leave my fat stores alone? I'm sure there's a pretty detailed scientific explanation but could someone give me a brief overview?
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Replies

  • inertiastrength
    inertiastrength Posts: 2,343 Member
    You're both burning fat if you're in a deficit, arguably they are the ones burning glucose since they're depleting their glycogen stores. Oh and water.
  • Jayco141
    Jayco141 Posts: 221 Member
    I did Atkins for a long time and it works, but damn I needed/craved some carbs bad! Bread..Potatoes...Cereal YUM.
  • rightoncommander
    rightoncommander Posts: 114 Member
    VintageFeline wrote: »
    Someone eating carbs will have glycogen used for immediate energy use. Fat stores can be used but that comes into play more with endurance athletes and isn't applicable for the majority of the population.

    I agree with most of your post, but it isn't true that endurance athletes use fat stores more than the majority of the population. Endurance athletes spend a lot of their exercise time in the "fat burning zone", but that's because we spend a lot of time exercising and don't want to wear ourselves out. Also, we want to encourage our bodies to become more efficient at burning fat, to increase the pace at which we start using up precious glycogen.

    But everyone uses fat for energy, all the time. This is the exact reason why tracking works so beautifully - we're all burning fat all the time, so if calories in is less than calories out, that just means we burnt marginally more fat than we stored.
  • Carlos_421
    Carlos_421 Posts: 5,132 Member
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    Tell her she is burning the fat she is eating, in addition to stored fat IF she is in a calorie deficit, and you are burning the glucose you are eating in addition to stored fat if you are in a calorie deficit. Same result, different mechanism.

    this
  • EmbeeKay
    EmbeeKay Posts: 249 Member
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    Tell her she is burning the fat she is eating, in addition to stored fat IF she is in a calorie deficit, and you are burning the glucose you are eating in addition to stored fat if you are in a calorie deficit. Same result, different mechanism.

    Very succinctly put! This was the message I was gleaning from the other posts, but you've summed it up very simply. Thank you, everyone, for your input. Seems like I have a wide circle of friends lately who are enthusiastic about the keto diet… counting calories is "old school" ☺️ ...

    I've tried keto and my brain HATES having foods that are off-limits. It just does not work for me. Last time I was at a play date, this keto friend made "keto crescent rolls," which, while delicious, tasted like a big hunk of almond flour, cream cheese, butter, and salt. (Which is what it was, basically.) I shudder to think how many calories were in it!
  • kclaar11
    kclaar11 Posts: 162 Member
    I could be wrong here (since I do not follow a Keto diet), but how does eating Keto just remove counting calories? When it comes to weight loss, calories are still going to be the most important factor. LCHF and HCLF diets are just different dietary methods, but eating a ton of carbs and going over your calorie limit or eating a ton of fat and going over calorie limit are still going to bring about the same result. The only thing I have seen from Keto dieters is that fat leaves them feeling more full so they may not eat as much thus resulting in a calorie deficit. Keto and calorie counting are not competing philosophies to my understanding.
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    Tell her she is burning the fat she is eating, in addition to stored fat IF she is in a calorie deficit, and you are burning the glucose you are eating in addition to stored fat if you are in a calorie deficit. Same result, different mechanism.

    Perfect summation.
  • T1DCarnivoreRunner
    T1DCarnivoreRunner Posts: 11,502 Member
    I think what she means is that she is "fat adapted" - this requires being in ketosis for awhile (weeks). Those of us who are fat adapted have changed / evolved / adapted (whatever term you want to use) so that our muscles primarily oxidize fat for energy. People who are not fat adapted (those who eat higher levels of carbs) primarily use glucose for energy in muscles.

    There are varying reasons for each and endurance exercise is managed differently. One isn't necessarily better or worse than the other unless you factor in those reasons. For example, most on a standard American diet (SAD) will need to carry and consume glucose for endurance activities (marathon, triathlon, etc.) in order to avoid bonking. Fat adapted athletes do not need to carry extra fuel, but instead need to make sure they are getting higher levels of electrolytes. For those who are not physically active and have no special medical considerations, the difference between SAD and keto level of carbs are less important..
  • T1DCarnivoreRunner
    T1DCarnivoreRunner Posts: 11,502 Member
    kclaar11 wrote: »
    I could be wrong here (since I do not follow a Keto diet), but how does eating Keto just remove counting calories? When it comes to weight loss, calories are still going to be the most important factor. LCHF and HCLF diets are just different dietary methods, but eating a ton of carbs and going over your calorie limit or eating a ton of fat and going over calorie limit are still going to bring about the same result. The only thing I have seen from Keto dieters is that fat leaves them feeling more full so they may not eat as much thus resulting in a calorie deficit. Keto and calorie counting are not competing philosophies to my understanding.

    Right, but that isn't relevant to the original question; which is about energy use. Fat adapted persons primarily use fat for muscles while everyone else primarily uses glucose. Your point, which is valid, just goes back to the source of that energy - those who consume more fat and very few carbs over longer periods of time transition to becoming fat adapted. They primarily burn fat for energy, but that doesn't automatically mean they burn body fat. If they are eating more fat than they are burning, then they are burning dietary fat plus storing some of that dietary fat (to become body fat). On the other hand, if eating less fat, then some body fat will be burned in addition to the dietary fat.

    Still, she is primarily burning fat. I've never understood why some people hear "burning fat" and automatically imply "burning body fat." Sometimes, "burning fat" means "burning dietary fat." Sometimes it means both.

  • dpwellman
    dpwellman Posts: 3,271 Member
    The long and short of it is this: Low carb, "keto" will produce VERY quick results (especially in the first 60 days). In 12 months the delta between keto and "low(er) fat" is nonexistent-- with the benefit of not gaining fat if one (keto) ever decides to ease off.
  • kclaar11
    kclaar11 Posts: 162 Member
    midwesterner85 wrote: »

    Right, but that isn't relevant to the original question; which is about energy use. Fat adapted persons primarily use fat for muscles while everyone else primarily uses glucose. Your point, which is valid, just goes back to the source of that energy - those who consume more fat and very few carbs over longer periods of time transition to becoming fat adapted. They primarily burn fat for energy, but that doesn't automatically mean they burn body fat. If they are eating more fat than they are burning, then they are burning dietary fat plus storing some of that dietary fat (to become body fat). On the other hand, if eating less fat, then some body fat will be burned in addition to the dietary fat.

    Still, she is primarily burning fat. I've never understood why some people hear "burning fat" and automatically imply "burning body fat." Sometimes, "burning fat" means "burning dietary fat." Sometimes it means both.

    Understood. That makes sense. I guess I was more answering the person before me who brought up being told about not counting calories because they were following Keto diet. Maybe I misunderstood their statement
  • stealthq
    stealthq Posts: 4,298 Member
    midwesterner85 wrote: »
    kclaar11 wrote: »
    I could be wrong here (since I do not follow a Keto diet), but how does eating Keto just remove counting calories? When it comes to weight loss, calories are still going to be the most important factor. LCHF and HCLF diets are just different dietary methods, but eating a ton of carbs and going over your calorie limit or eating a ton of fat and going over calorie limit are still going to bring about the same result. The only thing I have seen from Keto dieters is that fat leaves them feeling more full so they may not eat as much thus resulting in a calorie deficit. Keto and calorie counting are not competing philosophies to my understanding.

    Right, but that isn't relevant to the original question; which is about energy use. Fat adapted persons primarily use fat for muscles while everyone else primarily uses glucose. Your point, which is valid, just goes back to the source of that energy - those who consume more fat and very few carbs over longer periods of time transition to becoming fat adapted. They primarily burn fat for energy, but that doesn't automatically mean they burn body fat. If they are eating more fat than they are burning, then they are burning dietary fat plus storing some of that dietary fat (to become body fat). On the other hand, if eating less fat, then some body fat will be burned in addition to the dietary fat.

    Still, she is primarily burning fat. I've never understood why some people hear "burning fat" and automatically imply "burning body fat." Sometimes, "burning fat" means "burning dietary fat." Sometimes it means both.

    Eternal optimism.

    That, and likely some ignorance that fats in the body that are not body fat exist.
  • VeryKatie
    VeryKatie Posts: 5,961 Member
    edited March 2017
    Your friend is incorrect. If you are both in a deficit, the first bit lost will be water weight and the rest will be fat (maybe some muscle, hopefully not much).
  • leanjogreen18
    leanjogreen18 Posts: 2,492 Member
    Some on Keto don't count calories because fat and protein are satiateing for them. So they eat less in general (eating less calories).

    However one can and many do gain weight on Keto and they figure out they need to count calories even on the Keto diet. Some here on Mfp have acknowledged that.

    So your friend may never have to count calories just as some people eating smaller portions on any "diet" can lose without counting calories. Reality for other folks is counting regardless of what "diet" they are on Keto included.

  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    edited March 2017
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    Tell her she is burning the fat she is eating, in addition to stored fat IF she is in a calorie deficit, and you are burning the glucose you are eating in addition to stored fat if you are in a calorie deficit. Same result, different mechanism.

    That's basically it. We burn fat better BUT we're usually eating a lot more fat. Much of the fat we burn is dietary.

    Only during sustained exercise is there an advantage in fat burning. Those who are fat adapted (ketogenic for weeks or months) will have higher rates of fat oxidation than those who are "sugar-burners". During aerobic exercise, a ketogenic athlete will burn more fat.
    http://www.metabolismjournal.com/article/S0026-0495(15)00334-0/abstract

    Unless you are both (extreme) endurance athletes, there should be little difference in the amount of body fat you burn.
  • snikkins
    snikkins Posts: 1,282 Member
    EbonyDahlia wrote: »
    I don't understand the hate and the horror about "omg I can't cut certain foods out of my diet" in reference to low carb or keto. To me, it's really no different to vegetarians, or vegans, or gluten free, or any of a whole range of eating styles. Vegetarian doesn't eat meat. I don't eat starches and grains and sugars. It's no hardship at all tbh.

    I'm also going to go out on a limb here and suggest that the people who you're talking about are also not vegetarian, vegan, or gluten free, so I fail to see your point.

    People who don't like to cut stuff from their diet because it feels bad to them mentally tend to not cut any stuff from their diet if they want it.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,431 MFP Moderator
    edited March 2017
    midwesterner85 wrote: »
    kclaar11 wrote: »
    I could be wrong here (since I do not follow a Keto diet), but how does eating Keto just remove counting calories? When it comes to weight loss, calories are still going to be the most important factor. LCHF and HCLF diets are just different dietary methods, but eating a ton of carbs and going over your calorie limit or eating a ton of fat and going over calorie limit are still going to bring about the same result. The only thing I have seen from Keto dieters is that fat leaves them feeling more full so they may not eat as much thus resulting in a calorie deficit. Keto and calorie counting are not competing philosophies to my understanding.

    Right, but that isn't relevant to the original question; which is about energy use. Fat adapted persons primarily use fat for muscles while everyone else primarily uses glucose. Your point, which is valid, just goes back to the source of that energy - those who consume more fat and very few carbs over longer periods of time transition to becoming fat adapted. They primarily burn fat for energy, but that doesn't automatically mean they burn body fat. If they are eating more fat than they are burning, then they are burning dietary fat plus storing some of that dietary fat (to become body fat). On the other hand, if eating less fat, then some body fat will be burned in addition to the dietary fat.

    Still, she is primarily burning fat. I've never understood why some people hear "burning fat" and automatically imply "burning body fat." Sometimes, "burning fat" means "burning dietary fat." Sometimes it means both.

    It's probably a basic misunderstanding of how the body actually works and it's probably proclaimed that way by zealots that follow the plan to make it seem like their way is better; you actually see similar answers in vegans who tend to proclaim that cows milk makes you fat.. because baby cows and that you are drinking the blood and puss of a cow. Another good example is the whole sugar makes cancer worse... but it's a misunderstand that the source of some cancers are glucose (not the sugar you ingest).


    Also, and maybe I am wrong, but I thought I read an article that demonstrated that people generally have equivalent fat/carb oxidation rates with the exceptions being those who are fat adapted or that tend to get substantial amounts of carbs over fat/protein (generally endurance athletes).
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    psuLemon wrote: »
    midwesterner85 wrote: »
    kclaar11 wrote: »
    I could be wrong here (since I do not follow a Keto diet), but how does eating Keto just remove counting calories? When it comes to weight loss, calories are still going to be the most important factor. LCHF and HCLF diets are just different dietary methods, but eating a ton of carbs and going over your calorie limit or eating a ton of fat and going over calorie limit are still going to bring about the same result. The only thing I have seen from Keto dieters is that fat leaves them feeling more full so they may not eat as much thus resulting in a calorie deficit. Keto and calorie counting are not competing philosophies to my understanding.

    Right, but that isn't relevant to the original question; which is about energy use. Fat adapted persons primarily use fat for muscles while everyone else primarily uses glucose. Your point, which is valid, just goes back to the source of that energy - those who consume more fat and very few carbs over longer periods of time transition to becoming fat adapted. They primarily burn fat for energy, but that doesn't automatically mean they burn body fat. If they are eating more fat than they are burning, then they are burning dietary fat plus storing some of that dietary fat (to become body fat). On the other hand, if eating less fat, then some body fat will be burned in addition to the dietary fat.

    Still, she is primarily burning fat. I've never understood why some people hear "burning fat" and automatically imply "burning body fat." Sometimes, "burning fat" means "burning dietary fat." Sometimes it means both.

    It's probably a basic misunderstanding of how the body actually works and it's probably proclaimed that way by zealots that follow the plan to make it seem like their way is better; you actually see similar answers in vegans who tend to proclaim that cows milk makes you fat.. because baby cows and that you are drinking the blood and puss of a cow. Another good example is the whole sugar makes cancer worse... but it's a misunderstand that the source of some cancers are glucose (not the sugar you ingest).


    Also, and maybe I am wrong, but I thought I read an article that demonstrated that people generally have equivalent fat/carb oxidation rates with the exceptions being those who are fat adapted or that tend to get substantial amounts of carbs over fat/protein (generally endurance athletes).

    Could you link to it? I am always looking for good info.
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