Back pain with deadlifts, hip flexor pain after squats
Hausisse1
Posts: 165 Member
Hi 
I've been lifting weights for many years but have recently decided to get more into bodybuilding and lifting heavy with some friends (one of whom participates in powerlifing competitions). They helped me figure out my 1 rep max and all that and helped me write a good routine.
After deadlifting heavy a few times per week, though, my lower back hurts, and although it isn't a sharp pain it feels similar to the pain I experienced when I had a little back pain from wearing shoe inserts that were too firm.
I've also been squatting several times a week and my hip flexor has been bothering me afterwards.
I'm taking a break from those exercises to see if it goes away, but in the meantime, what should I do? What could be wrong? Advice or similar experiences? I think once I start again I'm going to deload 10-15 percent of the weight too. According to my friends who do powerlifing competitions and *kitten* my form is good.
I've been lifting weights for many years but have recently decided to get more into bodybuilding and lifting heavy with some friends (one of whom participates in powerlifing competitions). They helped me figure out my 1 rep max and all that and helped me write a good routine.After deadlifting heavy a few times per week, though, my lower back hurts, and although it isn't a sharp pain it feels similar to the pain I experienced when I had a little back pain from wearing shoe inserts that were too firm.
I've also been squatting several times a week and my hip flexor has been bothering me afterwards.
I'm taking a break from those exercises to see if it goes away, but in the meantime, what should I do? What could be wrong? Advice or similar experiences? I think once I start again I'm going to deload 10-15 percent of the weight too. According to my friends who do powerlifing competitions and *kitten* my form is good.
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Replies
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I had a similar experience. Figured it would heal
Itself but three months later finally went to a sports doc who diagnosed me with hip impingement. The pain was in my lower back and groin, and hip. I had self-diagnosed it as sciatica. Have you tried icing? I just finished six weeks of p/t and have better range of motion, but not there yet. Wasn't clear what happened - driving, sitting, lifting too heavy with bad form, born with it, etc. Frustrating as I'm not sure what not to do.0 -
After deadlifting heavy a few times per week, though, my lower back hurts, and although it isn't a sharp pain it feels similar to the pain I experienced when I had a little back pain from wearing shoe inserts that were too firm.
I've also been squatting several times a week and my hip flexor has been bothering me afterwards.
Hard to be sure without seeing your training schedule, but you may be overtraining on both, by that I mean you're doing them too often. One of the basic rules of thumb I learned a long time ago, was that you shouldn't train the same muscle group more then once in a 48 hour period (muscles need time to recover/repair). By that basic rule, you shouldn't be doing squats or deadlifts more then 3 days a week and not on back to back days. The same with the deadlift. Also.. since deadlifts and squats work a number of the same muscles, and both tend to do so with larger weight loads (compared to other lower body lifts), most workouts I ran with in my competitive days either had both squats and dead lift on the same day (my powerlifting workouts) or actually alternated squats and deadlifts on lower body days (my sports competition workouts.
Also, if doing each lift multiple times a week, you may consider using different variations each time.
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Might help to know what your routine is and a video of your lifts would be helpful.
If you've taken a break from lifting, I can't see how deadlifting heavy twice a week would be beneficial.
How is your progression? What percentages are you working with?
Also I would disregard icing any thing that isn't a muscle tear, its virtually useless.1 -
Might help to know what your routine is and a video of your lifts would be helpful.
If you've taken a break from lifting, I can't see how deadlifting heavy twice a week would be beneficial.
How is your progression? What percentages are you working with?
Also I would disregard icing any thing that isn't a muscle tear, its virtually useless.
In terms of squats/deadlifts, I do deadlifts Monday (3×6), Wednesday (5×5) and Saturday (4×8). Monday 60% of 1 rep max, Wednesday 80% and Saturday 65%. I have been trying to increase the weight by 5 lbs each week.
As for squats, Monday 5×5 (80%), Wednesday (60%) 3×6, and Friday 4×8 (65%).
I can try to get a video of myself squatting and DLing for you.
I suspect I am overtraining. I cycled a lot and did squats and deadlifts before, but not three times a week or as heavy as I am now. But it's just a weird pain.0 -
be careful lifting with friends, just because they can lift heavy or have been in a meet doenst' mean they are doing it right. I'm not saying they are doing it wrong, im'just saying be aware. You should not have back pain from deadlifts. You will get doms when you first start, but if you take it slow and easy , that goes away . Your DL form needs to be spot on perfect if you are hitting 1rm. DL twice a week might be too much, My program has me DL once a week and squat twice a week. You will feel like a train hit you if you are DL and squat heavy twice a week, you may just have done too much too fast.0
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Hmmm, if you're just getting into things (not really sure, you said bodybuilding and then powerlifting?), I'd pick a basic beginner program and try it out. You're deadlifting and squatting pretty heavy 3x a week each and that is pure suicide. I would have a whole lot of lower back pain if I did six heavy exercises that stress the lower back each week.
Having said that, just tossing out a common scenario, painful hip flexors usually come from tight hip flexors (desk job?) and inactive glutes. Google some hip flexor stretches and glute activation exercises, that may help. Getting your glutes involved can also reduce lower back pain too so it's probably all tied together. Add that in with way too much work and none of what you have said is surprising.
It could also be a million other things but I'm just throwing out some common causes without actually seeing you perform (you may want to post some form check videos).0 -
Hmmm, if you're just getting into things, I'd pick a basic beginner program and try it out. You're deadlifting and squatting pretty heavy 3x a week each and that is pure suicide. I would have a whole lot of lower back pain if I did six heavy exercises that stress the lower back each week.
Having said that, just tossing out a common scenario, painful hip flexors usually come from tight hip flexors (desk job?) and inactive glutes. Google some hip flexor stretches and glute activation exercises, that may help. Getting your glutes involved can also reduce lower back pain too so it's probably all tied together. Add that in with way too much work and none of what you have said is surprising.
It could also be a million other things but I'm just throwing out some common causes without actually seeing you perform (you may want to post some form check videos).
I don't have a desk job or sit very much, I think the inactive glute thing is very possible though. And I'd been lifting weights for a while, squatting and deadlifting- but you're right, I think it is simply too much!0 -
By the way, post up your videos here if you're interested: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/911984/form-critique-thread-post-your-videos-here#latest1
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Have you tried testing your ankle mobility?0
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Make sure you spend time stretching afterward. Sometimes I do a little light cardio afterwards and then stretch to keep from getting too tight.0
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Sorry to say, but I think your friends failed you on the writing a good routine part. Your hitting squats on a friday and deadlift on a Saturday, that right there is going to cause problems and you hitting both three days a week which is way too much for someone just getting into a heavy lifting routine (FYI, even when I competed I never trained either more then twice a week).
Whether you try adjusting your current routine or scrap it for a set program off the web, you'll want a routine that targets a specific muscle group for that day. Example, my favorite go to is a 2 day split done twice a week. Day 1 was light lower body, day 2 light upper body, day 3 rest, day 4 heavy lower body, day 5 heavy upper body, 2 day rest. This gave me a solid 48 hours after light and a nice 72 hour rest after heavy.
Though, since you are already having issues and are new, you may want to try a 3 day a week rotating split. week 1 Day 1 upper, day 2 lower, day 3 upper keeping at least one rest day inbetween. Week 2 shift to Day 1 lower, day 2 upper day 3 lower.
There's a LOT of options available on-line, so I would take some time looking at what's out there and either use them as guidelines to adjust your routine, or grab one that sounds fun.
Another thought is to consider trying progressive loads instead of static loads. By progressive loads, what I mean is a routine that does say 3-4 set. Set 1 maybe 12 reps at 40-50%, Set 2 8 reps at 65% set 3 4-6 reps at 80% or something like that. It allows the muscles to "warm up" to the heavy set
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I'd guess it's a form issue. Your low back is either in hyperextension (pictured left) or hyperflexion (pictured right):
Seems your friends say it looks okay, it's most likely hyperextension. Sometimes it can be subtle like in the pic above. Other times it can be extreme like this:
The fix would be keep your spine neutral. Focus on activating your core to keep your spine locked into that neutral position. Also don't exaggerate the lockout. Just stand up straight.
Post a form video.
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Might help to know what your routine is and a video of your lifts would be helpful.
If you've taken a break from lifting, I can't see how deadlifting heavy twice a week would be beneficial.
How is your progression? What percentages are you working with?
Also I would disregard icing any thing that isn't a muscle tear, its virtually useless.
In terms of squats/deadlifts, I do deadlifts Monday (3×6), Wednesday (5×5) and Saturday (4×8). Monday 60% of 1 rep max, Wednesday 80% and Saturday 65%. I have been trying to increase the weight by 5 lbs each week.
As for squats, Monday 5×5 (80%), Wednesday (60%) 3×6, and Friday 4×8 (65%).
I can try to get a video of myself squatting and DLing for you.
I suspect I am overtraining. I cycled a lot and did squats and deadlifts before, but not three times a week or as heavy as I am now. But it's just a weird pain.
Are you stretching enough? Warming up before the workout? If you work on your mobility, and have the perfect form, you wouldn't experience pain. Overtraining your body is not that easy, especially 3 times a week kind of way with 60%'s. It's probably something to do with your form, or underlying posture issue. I would say go lower weights until you perfect your form. Make sure you warm up properly, and are stretching and doing mobility exercises. Perhaps you could post it a video here from the side and front for a critique as others mentioned.
Omarisuf has some good mobility videos on youtube. They might help if your issue is that.0 -
With the little information you gave, I would say you are having trouble controlling your pelvis with load.
There is a good chance your hips are rolling posteriorly during your deadlift, which is causing your LB pain.
Anterior hip pain with squats is often caused from an anterior tilt of the hips, which creates an impingement near the bottom of a squat. Females are especially at risk of this due to their bone structure.
As mentioned above, post a video here or in this group and I can help you out further.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10450529/correct-my-form#latest0 -
I had hip flexor pain in one side and it was due to a glute weakness. I switched to a glute focused plan and the hip pain went away. I never had lower back pain from DL though so that might not be your problem. You are DLing quite a bit though so that might be a little much. Can you possibly go see a sports physiotherapist? They might be able to give you a better idea of your issues, form check you and provide exercises to help you.0
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Lots of possibilities, probably all of them covered so far, but seems like a big jump in volume and intensity. Possibility of form being off, trying to go too heavy, or not properly warming up and recovering.0
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i think in all three pictures of that girl in the red shirt are poor form. sorry.1
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I'd guess it's a form issue. Your low back is either in hyperextension (pictured left) or hyperflexion (pictured right):
Seems your friends say it looks okay, it's most likely hyperextension. Sometimes it can be subtle like in the pic above. Other times it can be extreme like this:
The fix would be keep your spine neutral. Focus on activating your core to keep your spine locked into that neutral position. Also don't exaggerate the lockout. Just stand up straight.
Post a form video.
@Walter__
I have a question about this photo.
My back naturally curves in such a way where when I bend forward, it looks like the hyper-extended photo of that woman.
Does that make it so that when I deadlift, I'm doing so with improper form? Or is it alright because I'm not actually hyper-extending it...?
I wouldn't worry about it if you're not feeling any pain. Most people who have pain from overextending is when it's really exaggerated, especially at the lockout. Just like in that second picture. OP hasn't posted a form video so it's just a guess at this pointi think in all three pictures of that girl in the red shirt are poor form. sorry.
In the middle picture: Back is neutral, bar is over midfoot and underneath the scapula.
Break it down for us. Tell us how it's wrong.
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I'd guess it's a form issue. Your low back is either in hyperextension (pictured left) or hyperflexion (pictured right):
Seems your friends say it looks okay, it's most likely hyperextension. Sometimes it can be subtle like in the pic above. Other times it can be extreme like this:
The fix would be keep your spine neutral. Focus on activating your core to keep your spine locked into that neutral position. Also don't exaggerate the lockout. Just stand up straight.
Post a form video.
@Walter__
I have a question about this photo.
My back naturally curves in such a way where when I bend forward, it looks like the hyper-extended photo of that woman.
Does that make it so that when I deadlift, I'm doing so with improper form? Or is it alright because I'm not actually hyper-extending it...?
While I couldn't say for sure if your form is fine because you didn't post anything, it doesn't sound like anything worth worrying about. Your spine has a natural arch to it that varies a bit from person to person. The reason for your slight hyperextension could be natural or it could be unnatural tightness pulling you out of a neutral position. Kinda hard to tell from a few words on the internet but if it's slight and there's no pain it's not something I would stress. If anything you could nitpick other things about those pictures such as a more neutral neck. Not everybody is going to look like a picture-perfect anatomical graphic. The images are just to highlight the differences in spine extension/flexion, IMO.0 -
I'd guess it's a form issue. Your low back is either in hyperextension (pictured left) or hyperflexion (pictured right):
Seems your friends say it looks okay, it's most likely hyperextension. Sometimes it can be subtle like in the pic above. Other times it can be extreme like this:
The fix would be keep your spine neutral. Focus on activating your core to keep your spine locked into that neutral position. Also don't exaggerate the lockout. Just stand up straight.
Post a form video.
@Walter__
I have a question about this photo.
My back naturally curves in such a way where when I bend forward, it looks like the hyper-extended photo of that woman.
Does that make it so that when I deadlift, I'm doing so with improper form? Or is it alright because I'm not actually hyper-extending it...?
I wouldn't worry about it if you're not feeling any pain. Most people who have pain from overextending is when it's really exaggerated, especially at the lockout. Just like in that second picture. OP hasn't posted a form video so it's just a guess at this pointi think in all three pictures of that girl in the red shirt are poor form. sorry.
In the middle picture: Back is neutral, bar is over midfoot and underneath the scapula.
Break it down for us. Tell us how it's wrong.
just looking at her shoulders, she has zero lat engagement. and in my opinion incorrect shoulder alignment.1 -
I'd guess it's a form issue. Your low back is either in hyperextension (pictured left) or hyperflexion (pictured right):
Seems your friends say it looks okay, it's most likely hyperextension. Sometimes it can be subtle like in the pic above. Other times it can be extreme like this:
The fix would be keep your spine neutral. Focus on activating your core to keep your spine locked into that neutral position. Also don't exaggerate the lockout. Just stand up straight.
Post a form video.
@Walter__
I have a question about this photo.
My back naturally curves in such a way where when I bend forward, it looks like the hyper-extended photo of that woman.
Does that make it so that when I deadlift, I'm doing so with improper form? Or is it alright because I'm not actually hyper-extending it...?
I wouldn't worry about it if you're not feeling any pain. Most people who have pain from overextending is when it's really exaggerated, especially at the lockout. Just like in that second picture. OP hasn't posted a form video so it's just a guess at this pointi think in all three pictures of that girl in the red shirt are poor form. sorry.
In the middle picture: Back is neutral, bar is over midfoot and underneath the scapula.
Break it down for us. Tell us how it's wrong.
just looking at her shoulders, she has zero lat engagement. and in my opinion incorrect shoulder alignment.
If her lats were completely relaxed, the bar would swing away. Try it for yourself. Grab an empty bar, get into the deadlift position, then completely relax your lats. With zero lat engagement the bar swings away. She's doing just enough to hold it and pose for a picture.
I suggest giving Starting Strength a read. It explains the optimal positions for all the lifts and why.
Here is an excerpt from the deadlift chapter:The correct position from which to pull will
be one in which the scapulas, the bar, and the midfoot
are aligned vertically. The back will be held rigid
in its normal anatomical position, the elbows will be
straight, and the feet will obviously be flat against
the floor.
Read the rest of the excerpt here. It's only 7 pages: http://mattlorig.yolasite.com/resources/pulling_mechanics2_rippetoe.pdf
Alternatively, here's another great website. Same principles from Starting Strength, but the visuals make it easier to understand:
http://www.powerliftingtowin.com/powerlifting-technique-deadlift-setup/
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thank you for your reading suggestions , i still think her form is off. who is she anyways?0
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Advice or similar experiences?
not gonna give advice, but since you asked for similar experiences: i've just found out i've been going around with a slightly rotated pelvis that was giving me similar kinds of aggravation. i probably did it to myself either sneezing with only one foot on the ground or by shovelling snow from the third-world-squat position with a hand-held dustpan
functionally, my sacrum couldn't 'glide' to accommodate whatever my ilium was doing, and things have been pretty uncomfortable in a low-grade nag kind of way.
frustrating, because i kept trying to 'fix' my form when it seems maybe my form was never the problem to begin with. please note, i am NOT saying you should assume yours is fine. but it's an example of how sometimes you can do everything right but if your various bones aren't in the right kind of alignment with one another, it's still going to hurt.1 -
No. Your shoulders should usually* be slightly in front of your hands when you begin the pull. And hip height is going to be pretty individual. Some people will have lower hips. Others, if they lower their hips, will just end up having their hips rise first, which is something you'd want to avoid.
*Usually, because every now and then there will be someone with somewhat odd proportions (or some other valid reason) to not set up this way.
Considering those pictures are simply showing back position (not necessarily anything else), it's pretty irrelevant, anyway.1 -
i personally like to see slightly lower hips if she's trying to demo a conventional pull. if she locked in her lats in the "neutral position" photo it would get her shoulders more in a correct position. Its also kinda strange to try and demonstrate impeccable form for internet examples with an empty bar , it really helps to have the resistance from some weight for a proper set up. Again this is all my opinion , and everyone has their own.
so i just googled her pic, here she is again, with a loaded bar and lower hips and better form, shoulders better too.
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Shoulders should be just in front of bar so the scapula is directly above the bar and her hips are a perfect height for her body configuration according to Ripptoe.
I would also argue its nearly impossible to make your lats look engaged with a empty bar since one cannot pull the slack out. Even to do a dead lift correctly, one must have some weight on the bar.1 -
Shoulders should be just in front of bar so the scapula is directly above the bar and her hips are a perfect height for her body configuration according to Ripptoe.
I would also argue its nearly impossible to make your lats look engaged with a empty bar since one cannot pull the slack out. Even to do a dead lift correctly, one must have some weight on the bar.
it the pic of her with the empty bar , it appears to me her scapula is in front of the bar, the pic with the weight on the bar, its looks more in line.0 -
Its about as good as it gets without being able to pull the slack. Besides the purpose of the first pic is to show a neutral back. Also must be noted different camera angle. My point of mentioning scapula is the hands should not be directly below shoulders which was stated otherwise.
Shoulders should be just in front of bar so the scapula is directly above the bar and her hips are a perfect height for her body configuration according to Ripptoe.
I would also argue its nearly impossible to make your lats look engaged with a empty bar since one cannot pull the slack out. Even to do a dead lift correctly, one must have some weight on the bar.
it the pic of her with the empty bar , it appears to me her scapula is in front of the bar, the pic with the weight on the bar, its looks more in line.0
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