Question for the veterans - calorie counting
mou_254
Posts: 153 Member
So , I have been wondering lately, how do you guys approach the whole "how many calories to eat" thing?
Do you guys calculate tdee based on current weight and then eat at a deficit and then shave off more calories as you lose weight?
Or, do you eat the same number of calories the entire journey, and then up it a little when you switch to maintenance?
I have been thinking, what if I eat my maintenance calories at my goal weight for the entire journey? That way, I can always tell myself that I will always have these many calories to eat daily, throughout my life and I might as well get used to it. And theoretically, since I'm overweight (obese, actually) , I should lose weight by eating my goal weight's maintenance calories, isn't it? (Obviously I understand that there may be plateaus, and I'll have to adjust my calories accordingly)
Do you guys think it is feasible in the long run? My question is targeted mostly to the people who have lost a lot of weight (100 lbs or more) , because I have a lot of weight to lose.
Thoughts, opinions, suggestions?
Do you guys calculate tdee based on current weight and then eat at a deficit and then shave off more calories as you lose weight?
Or, do you eat the same number of calories the entire journey, and then up it a little when you switch to maintenance?
I have been thinking, what if I eat my maintenance calories at my goal weight for the entire journey? That way, I can always tell myself that I will always have these many calories to eat daily, throughout my life and I might as well get used to it. And theoretically, since I'm overweight (obese, actually) , I should lose weight by eating my goal weight's maintenance calories, isn't it? (Obviously I understand that there may be plateaus, and I'll have to adjust my calories accordingly)
Do you guys think it is feasible in the long run? My question is targeted mostly to the people who have lost a lot of weight (100 lbs or more) , because I have a lot of weight to lose.
Thoughts, opinions, suggestions?
4
Replies
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I use MFP's tools to figure that out. Have you not tried that?
I've only had a little over 30 lbs to lose, but really, the approach need be no different for 100.4 -
Do you guys calculate tdee based on current weight and then eat at a deficit and then shave off more calories as you lose weight?
I started using MFP's numbers, although I checked them with several TDEE calculators (I lost 95 lb total, but started MFP after the first 20 were lost). I ate back exercise calories too. After a few months I switched to the TDEE approach, ate about 1500, and ended up moving it to 1600 as I lost, as I was exercising more. I let my rate of loss gradually diminish, but I never ate maintenance calories -- I upped it when I got to maintenance.Or, do you eat the same number of calories the entire journey, and then up it a little when you switch to maintenance?
This is workable if you still have a lot to lose (it's not if you only have a little, as maintenance calories won't be that different), but remember what your actual maintenance calories are going to be will depend on how much you move. Mine has varied off and on as I've been at maintenance. Also, if you have less to lose or as you get close to goal it could become frustratingly slow, although at least you wouldn't have a tendency to quit in frustration, as you'd be doing what you planned to do forever.2 -
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I've used both MFP NEAT eating all my exercise calories, TDEE, and used collected data to come up with my own numbers. (Yeah I have been around way too long.)
All those versions were close enough for me to lose at the predicted rate, and to stay in maintenance for a few years.
Oddly enough all those numbers also took me to maintenance on the same calories, and my maintenance was those calories too.
Fair enough I was small and only had 30lbs to lose.
The only problem I can see with going from obese to mid normal BMI is that a low calorie goal may have you losing a bit too fast which may leave you lethargic, upsetting your NEAT, and/or be restrictive enough to make it unsustainable.
There is no harm in giving it a go and if you find it isn't working, revert to the more conventional method.
I would be interested in you keeping the thread updated on your progress.
Cheers, h.0 -
It is theoretically possible to eat at maintenance for your goal weight the entire journey, but I don't think many have succeeded at that. Something you might consider is whether you really want to maintain your weight by tracking your calories in the same way that you do when you are losing weight. That doesn't work for me. Also, most people don't have a set maintenance weight but a range of about +/-5 lbs. Are you going to calculate your calories based on the midpoint? The low side? The high side? It would work better if you use the low side, but you will have to increase your calories at some point. At the midpoint it will take you a very long time. At the high point you will never get there.0
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TDEE minus 500-700 calories is usually how I would go about it since TDEE can be different day to day.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Look at the fat 2 fit calculator. It calculates your TDEE based on your goal weight. I will say that they also suggest for faster weight-loss you can subtract 200-300 calories. Look at all the numbers and see what makes the most sense for you. You may find your answer changes from time to time.
I personally like the TDEE method and I just recalculate it along the way based on current weight and activity level.0 -
I set MFP for my TDEE minus a deficit.0
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It didn't take me long to figure out that I preferred a stable calorie goal rather than a moving target. I've lost about 130 pounds in the past 25 months with a calorie goal during about the past 22 months that is about 200 calories below my anticipated maintenance calories. I haven't changed my calorie goal since I settled on a number that kept me satiated. I'm sedentary so, after my initial water weight loss in the first couple of weeks, my rate of loss wasn't too fast at that calorie level. I lost an average of about 1.5 pounds per week near the beginning and I'm at an average of about 0.6 pounds per week now. The rate just gets slower and slower on its own without me having to make any adjustments at all. Easy peasy. Once I reach a weight that works for me, I'll add a bit more cheese here and there to bump up my calories to maintenance.3
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For context, I lost 170 lbs a few years ago and have been in maintenance for about 2 years.
I 100% agree that when you have a lot of weight to lose, looking at long-term sustainability is critical to success. I feel so sad for people I see who seem to be in such a hurry to lose a large amount of weight and for their "diet to be over," that they burn out their willpower with too much restriction.
It's also absolutely true that after you lose the weight, you'll likely need to have a new approach to food than what you had when you started, and you really need to take your time to figure that out. Meaning that if you are anything like me, you have a lot of weight to lose at least partly because you love eating food, and you'll need to find a way to come to terms with that that strikes a balance between accountability to yourself for your goals and kindness and respect for yourself and your natural preferences.
The good news is that over the long haul it really does get easier, and your attitudes do shift. I still love treats, but I've found ways to enjoy them in smaller and less frequent doses. I still love larger portions than average, but I have learned how to plan my meals better to account for that, and I've (very slowly) learned to actually feel psychologically "finished eating" after a smaller plate. But also (in terms of setting a calorie goal), I found that my goals -- and my needs changed. Mostly what I found that as I got lighter, being active was less onerous / more fun, and I gradually became more active, which changed my nutritional needs (more calories, different macros). And for a lot of people (not me, for specific reasons), a long-term plan that works quite well is intermittant fasting combined with a fairly disciplined "cut" / "bulk" cycle. This suggests that a calorie target for eating at healthy maintenance (sometimes called "eating for future you") might realistically be something of a moving target. Bear in mind that I started losing weight about 4 years ago, and I'm still finding that my attitudes and needs continue to change, and mostly it gets easier.8 -
middlehaitch wrote: »I've used both MFP NEAT eating all my exercise calories, TDEE, and used collected data to come up with my own numbers. (Yeah I have been around way too long.)
All those versions were close enough for me to lose at the predicted rate, and to stay in maintenance for a few years.
Oddly enough all those numbers also took me to maintenance on the same calories, and my maintenance was those calories too.
Fair enough I was small and only had 30lbs to lose.
The only problem I can see with going from obese to mid normal BMI is that a low calorie goal may have you losing a bit too fast which may leave you lethargic, upsetting your NEAT, and/or be restrictive enough to make it unsustainable.
There is no harm in giving it a go and if you find it isn't working, revert to the more conventional method.
I would be interested in you keeping the thread updated on your progress.
Cheers, h.
I thought I might as well give this a go, now. Let's see what happens!! Thanks
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It didn't take me long to figure out that I preferred a stable calorie goal rather than a moving target. I've lost about 130 pounds in the past 25 months with a calorie goal during about the past 22 months that is about 200 calories below my anticipated maintenance calories. I haven't changed my calorie goal since I settled on a number that kept me satiated. I'm sedentary so, after my initial water weight loss in the first couple of weeks, my rate of loss wasn't too fast at that calorie level. I lost an average of about 1.5 pounds per week near the beginning and I'm at an average of about 0.6 pounds per week now. The rate just gets slower and slower on its own without me having to make any adjustments at all. Easy peasy. Once I reach a weight that works for me, I'll add a bit more cheese here and there to bump up my calories to maintenance.
That's what I used to think as well, that a stable calorie goal is better for me, personally. But, my thoughts are whether that stable goal for me can be close to my goal weight's maintenance calories?0 -
For context, I lost 170 lbs a few years ago and have been in maintenance for about 2 years.
I 100% agree that when you have a lot of weight to lose, looking at long-term sustainability is critical to success. I feel so sad for people I see who seem to be in such a hurry to lose a large amount of weight and for their "diet to be over," that they burn out their willpower with too much restriction.
It's also absolutely true that after you lose the weight, you'll likely need to have a new approach to food than what you had when you started, and you really need to take your time to figure that out. Meaning that if you are anything like me, you have a lot of weight to lose at least partly because you love eating food, and you'll need to find a way to come to terms with that that strikes a balance between accountability to yourself for your goals and kindness and respect for yourself and your natural preferences.
The good news is that over the long haul it really does get easier, and your attitudes do shift. I still love treats, but I've found ways to enjoy them in smaller and less frequent doses. I still love larger portions than average, but I have learned how to plan my meals better to account for that, and I've (very slowly) learned to actually feel psychologically "finished eating" after a smaller plate. But also (in terms of setting a calorie goal), I found that my goals -- and my needs changed. Mostly what I found that as I got lighter, being active was less onerous / more fun, and I gradually became more active, which changed my nutritional needs (more calories, different macros). And for a lot of people (not me, for specific reasons), a long-term plan that works quite well is intermittant fasting combined with a fairly disciplined "cut" / "bulk" cycle. This suggests that a calorie target for eating at healthy maintenance (sometimes called "eating for future you") might realistically be something of a moving target. Bear in mind that I started losing weight about 4 years ago, and I'm still finding that my attitudes and needs continue to change, and mostly it gets easier.
You are absolutely right, I love eating! I have not had major diseases ( a little bit of hypothyroidism only) and no major emotional trauma. I am obese purely because of my love for food, although I do have to admit that I use food to deal with emotions like happiness, sadness, frustration, anger and what not.
Thank you for sharing. I do intend to be more physically active; I'll join a gym in April and will walk back from office.0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »It is theoretically possible to eat at maintenance for your goal weight the entire journey, but I don't think many have succeeded at that. Something you might consider is whether you really want to maintain your weight by tracking your calories in the same way that you do when you are losing weight. That doesn't work for me. Also, most people don't have a set maintenance weight but a range of about +/-5 lbs. Are you going to calculate your calories based on the midpoint? The low side? The high side? It would work better if you use the low side, but you will have to increase your calories at some point. At the midpoint it will take you a very long time. At the high point you will never get there.
But part of my theory is that once I have eaten a particular amount of calories long enough ( and it will be long enough, considering I have about 110lbs to lose), I'll be able to eat without exactly counting all the calories ( I mean I'll be able to tell, say after 2 years, isn't it?) That way, I thought maintenance will also be easier, because I'll know when I'm going over.
I too have a range for goal weight, not an exact weight, and yes, I'll stick to the lower end to calculate calories.0 -
I set the mfp to lose 1lb a week. I figure it is easier to change my diet over time. I am eating better and better but if i went from what i was doing directly to what i should be doing at goal weight no way i would stick to it. I need to slowly make small sustainable changes.0
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If you eat right at the maintenance calories for your goal weight, your deficit will get smaller and smaller the closer you get to your goal weight. If you are familiar with math, it's like approaching the asymptote. That last 10 pounds might take you 5 years to lose. That may or may not be an issue for you.
Some people can eat intuitively after a while and some can't. I'm one who can't but you might be one who can.4 -
If you eat right at the maintenance calories for your goal weight, your deficit will get smaller and smaller the closer you get to your goal weight. If you are familiar with math, it's like approaching the asymptote. That last 10 pounds might take you 5 years to lose. That may or may not be an issue for you.
Some people can eat intuitively after a while and some can't. I'm one who can't but you might be one who can.
All valid points. I will have to consider and re-consider a lot of things along the way, it seems.0 -
Just purely out of curiosity what are your maintenance calories now, and what will they be when you switch to eating maintenance at your future weight?
Remember a big black limo won't come and run you down if you decide to change how you approach your goal.
I think it will be very important to eat back your exercise calories as you take this approach- they too will drop as you lose. Decide if you want to eat back current weight, which will give you wiggle room, or future weight.
I don't know much about math, but @seska422 is correct it could take a long time to lose the last few lbs. it took me 6 months of diligent logging and cutting back exercise cals to lose the last 5-8.
Cheers, h.0 -
Whether it's MFP sedentary with my age, height, weight, gender, and weight loss goal or TDEE estimating exercise and cutting 20%, I get similar target number of calories for my food.
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After a few months on MFP I decided that I would set my minimum to the lightly active calories at goal weight.
Did not regret and was not hindered by the decision.
You can always change your mind based on circumstances.
I've found it very educational to have to start thinking about which of the choices I was making were long term sustainabable vs expedient.
The more long term sustainabable the stuff we do... the better off we'll be, I think.
Contrary to other viewpoints descibed above, I personally view logging as a much longer term commitment....1 -
There is a book "Calorie Queens" it is about a mother and daughter. One lost 100lbs the other 50 lbs doing exactly that. As I understand it, the mom is married to a doctor, so I doubt he went along with anything that would harm their health.
I actually bought that book and also Fat 2 Fit and followed the plan for about a month. I was losing, but was hungry all the time.
Now I'm following Eat More to Weigh Less and much happier.0 -
middlehaitch wrote: »Just purely out of curiosity what are your maintenance calories now, and what will they be when you switch to eating maintenance at your future weight?
Remember a big black limo won't come and run you down if you decide to change how you approach your goal.
I think it will be very important to eat back your exercise calories as you take this approach- they too will drop as you lose. Decide if you want to eat back current weight, which will give you wiggle room, or future weight.
I don't know much about math, but @seska422 is correct it could take a long time to lose the last few lbs. it took me 6 months of diligent logging and cutting back exercise cals to lose the last 5-8.
Cheers, h.
So, here are my stats:
I'm 5'4'', 23 years old female and weigh about 237 lbs. At sedentary (which I pretty much am), mfp gives me around 2200 calories to maintain my weight.
My goal weight is between 125-135 lbs (as of now; I have always been obese and I have no idea how I would look and feel at those weights). Maintenance calories at the lower end of goal weight, with sedentary settings would be around 1550 calories.
However, I don't plan on being sedentary, so I'll probably be eating more than that.
I have to say that " last few pounds" is right now far, far away for me. Right now, I'm just looking at first few pounds and after that, the middle few pounds. Yes, I can and probably will have to change my approach based on what does or does not work for me.
Thank you for your suggestions 2 -
Thank you for sharing. I do intend to be more physically active; I'll join a gym in April and will walk back from office.
FWIW, not my intention to exercise-shame you or make you feel like you have to exercise.
I just meant that because I ended up being much more active than I thought I would, my calorie needs for maintenance are much higher than I would have estimated back in the day. Plus my needs to fuel that activity have impacts on meal timing and macros. All stuff I didn't originally plan for. Any "eating for future me" estimate would not have ended up reflecting the way I eat now.
That being said, my calorie target back then (1850/day) probably was pretty close to what that might have been. Nowadays I eat more like 2200/day. Considering that I'm >45 yo, both of those targets are a lot higher than a many obese people trying to lose weight would think.
1 -
Thank you for sharing. I do intend to be more physically active; I'll join a gym in April and will walk back from office.
FWIW, not my intention to exercise-shame you or make you feel like you have to exercise.
I just meant that because I ended up being much more active than I thought I would, my calorie needs for maintenance are much higher than I would have estimated back in the day. Plus my needs to fuel that activity have impacts on meal timing and macros. All stuff I didn't originally plan for. Any "eating for future me" estimate would not have ended up reflecting the way I eat now.
That being said, my calorie target back then (1850/day) probably was pretty close to what that might have been. Nowadays I eat more like 2200/day. Considering that I'm >45 yo, both of those targets are a lot higher than a many obese people trying to lose weight would think.
You did not exercise shame me at all
I perfectly understood what you were trying to tell me, and I agree. I want to exercise, partly because of all the extra calories
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My start weight was 145.6kg ( 321lb), so I used to TDEE calculator to work out how many calories I'd need when I got to my (planned) goal weight, then I just aimed to eat around that figure, I managed to lose 74.8kg (164lb) in 2 years - I exercised to give myself a few extra calories and at first I would eat those calories back, but as time went on I didn't always eat them back.
I've been maintaining my weight since November 2014 and for the most part I have been doing really well, but in October 2016 I became unwell and my weight has been a bit erratic, so I'm now feeling better and I am getting back on track, so I will get back down to my goal weight in time.
My calorie intake has remained pretty much the same throughout, but it's just where those calories have come from that changed - because not all calories are made equal, I get a lot more of my calories from proteins, healthy fats and fibre now, but in the early days I relied heavily on carbs and protein, because i wanted to follow a low fat diet, but as my body has changed so have my nutritional needs.
Losing a lot of weight is a learning curve and I loved the journey ... I wish you well on your journey, just remember this is YOUR journey, it's YOUR body and you have to do what works for YOU, just because our methods worked for us, doesn't mean that they will work for you, you need to find what works for you and stick with that.
If you approach your weight loss journey with an open mind you can't go far wrong, always remember that as long as you're trying you're not failing, failure only happens when you quit trying - I have a quote that got me through my weight loss journey and I have it tattooed on my back:
"I may not be able to change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to reach my destination"
xXx5 -
middlehaitch wrote: »Just purely out of curiosity what are your maintenance calories now, and what will they be when you switch to eating maintenance at your future weight?
Remember a big black limo won't come and run you down if you decide to change how you approach your goal.
I think it will be very important to eat back your exercise calories as you take this approach- they too will drop as you lose. Decide if you want to eat back current weight, which will give you wiggle room, or future weight.
I don't know much about math, but @seska422 is correct it could take a long time to lose the last few lbs. it took me 6 months of diligent logging and cutting back exercise cals to lose the last 5-8.
Cheers, h.
So, here are my stats:
I'm 5'4'', 23 years old female and weigh about 237 lbs. At sedentary (which I pretty much am), mfp gives me around 2200 calories to maintain my weight.
My goal weight is between 125-135 lbs (as of now; I have always been obese and I have no idea how I would look and feel at those weights). Maintenance calories at the lower end of goal weight, with sedentary settings would be around 1550 calories.
However, I don't plan on being sedentary, so I'll probably be eating more than that.
I have to say that " last few pounds" is right now far, far away for me. Right now, I'm just looking at first few pounds and after that, the middle few pounds. Yes, I can and probably will have to change my approach based on what does or does not work for me.
Thank you for your suggestions
Thanks for sharing your stats. I was a bit worried you may have been terribly underfueled. I am not worried anymore
I do think you have a good outlook, and will probably be very successful because you have thought out your approach, but still have an open mind.
Cheers, h.1 -
My start weight was 145.6kg ( 321lb), so I used to TDEE calculator to work out how many calories I'd need when I got to my (planned) goal weight, then I just aimed to eat around that figure, I managed to lose 74.8kg (164lb) in 2 years - I exercised to give myself a few extra calories and at first I would eat those calories back, but as time went on I didn't always eat them back.
I've been maintaining my weight since November 2014 and for the most part I have been doing really well, but in October 2016 I became unwell and my weight has been a bit erratic, so I'm now feeling better and I am getting back on track, so I will get back down to my goal weight in time.
My calorie intake has remained pretty much the same throughout, but it's just where those calories have come from that changed - because not all calories are made equal, I get a lot more of my calories from proteins, healthy fats and fibre now, but in the early days I relied heavily on carbs and protein, because i wanted to follow a low fat diet, but as my body has changed so have my nutritional needs.
Losing a lot of weight is a learning curve and I loved the journey ... I wish you well on your journey, just remember this is YOUR journey, it's YOUR body and you have to do what works for YOU, just because our methods worked for us, doesn't mean that they will work for you, you need to find what works for you and stick with that.
If you approach your weight loss journey with an open mind you can't go far wrong, always remember that as long as you're trying you're not failing, failure only happens when you quit trying - I have a quote that got me through my weight loss journey and I have it tattooed on my back:
"I may not be able to change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to reach my destination"
xXx
Wow, you are truly an inspiration!! 0 -
middlehaitch wrote: »middlehaitch wrote: »Just purely out of curiosity what are your maintenance calories now, and what will they be when you switch to eating maintenance at your future weight?
Remember a big black limo won't come and run you down if you decide to change how you approach your goal.
I think it will be very important to eat back your exercise calories as you take this approach- they too will drop as you lose. Decide if you want to eat back current weight, which will give you wiggle room, or future weight.
I don't know much about math, but @seska422 is correct it could take a long time to lose the last few lbs. it took me 6 months of diligent logging and cutting back exercise cals to lose the last 5-8.
Cheers, h.
So, here are my stats:
I'm 5'4'', 23 years old female and weigh about 237 lbs. At sedentary (which I pretty much am), mfp gives me around 2200 calories to maintain my weight.
My goal weight is between 125-135 lbs (as of now; I have always been obese and I have no idea how I would look and feel at those weights). Maintenance calories at the lower end of goal weight, with sedentary settings would be around 1550 calories.
However, I don't plan on being sedentary, so I'll probably be eating more than that.
I have to say that " last few pounds" is right now far, far away for me. Right now, I'm just looking at first few pounds and after that, the middle few pounds. Yes, I can and probably will have to change my approach based on what does or does not work for me.
Thank you for your suggestions
Thanks for sharing your stats. I was a bit worried you may have been terribly underfueled. I am not worried anymore
I do think you have a good outlook, and will probably be very successful because you have thought out your approach, but still have an open mind.
Cheers, h.
Thank you so much for the kind words.1 -
Wanted to wish you luck, and also to mention that since you are considering increasing your activity level and factor in those earned calories, adding something like a Fitbit or Garmin to your plans may be a motivator.1
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TimothyFish wrote: »It is theoretically possible to eat at maintenance for your goal weight the entire journey, but I don't think many have succeeded at that. Something you might consider is whether you really want to maintain your weight by tracking your calories in the same way that you do when you are losing weight. That doesn't work for me. Also, most people don't have a set maintenance weight but a range of about +/-5 lbs. Are you going to calculate your calories based on the midpoint? The low side? The high side? It would work better if you use the low side, but you will have to increase your calories at some point. At the midpoint it will take you a very long time. At the high point you will never get there.
But part of my theory is that once I have eaten a particular amount of calories long enough ( and it will be long enough, considering I have about 110lbs to lose), I'll be able to eat without exactly counting all the calories ( I mean I'll be able to tell, say after 2 years, isn't it?) That way, I thought maintenance will also be easier, because I'll know when I'm going over.
I too have a range for goal weight, not an exact weight, and yes, I'll stick to the lower end to calculate calories.
I'm all for eating without knowing the exact number of calories. That's what I do when I'm maintaining my weight. But we don't need the same amount of food all the time. Most days, I need over 3,000 calories, but if I sit all day I need less than that. On other days I burn enough calories that 4,000 is closer to what I need.0
This discussion has been closed.
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