Calories/Metabolic Rate
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WombatHat42
Posts: 192 Member
Ive been reading up a bit more on Metabolic rate(RMR, BMR, TDEE etc) and found something the other day about one common mistake people do. And that is double counting calories. There is a site I use quite a bit and have seen decent success with in terms of accuracy and it gave this example about calories burned DURING and BY exercise.
Example: "Homer Simpson (5’11” 285 pounds), wants to lose weight so he calculates his RMR (2228 calories) & how many calories burned by his exercise (8 hours of TV). He goes to a calories burned calculator and sees that in 8 hours he burned 1087 calories, so he (incorrectly) calculates his TDEE to be 3315 calories (2228 + 1087). Then decreases that by 10% and sets his daily caloric target for 2983 calories (90% of 3315) so he can lose weight. But he GAINS weight! Does he have a slow metabolism? Does he have metabolic syndrome? NO! He is doing the same thing that millions of others do and has double counted the calories burned! Remember that 1087 calories burned *during* the TV watching? Well, in that 8 hours of TV watching only 344 calories were burned *by* the increased brain activity caused by watching TV, the other 743 calories would have been burned anyway if he was sleeping. That 743 calories is the from the resting metabolic rate and he already counted that in his 2228 calories RMR!!"
So I am curious, I am 6'1 30yo and weigh 345 so my RMR 2582 BMR 2937 TDEE 4038 & Caloric goal 3028. Today for example I walked at an average of 3.05mph 0.5incline for 60min 27sec and burned 573 calories. When I calculate my calories eaten/used I would only include 465 correct?
573-(2582/24hours)=573-108=465 because during that hour, my body would have used 108 calories even if i were sleeping?
This made me wonder if another mistake ive always done was taken out or added to my caloric goal when I shouldnt have. So if I consumed 3028 but burned the 465 would i need to consume another 465 to keep it there or is that already taken into account?
Example: "Homer Simpson (5’11” 285 pounds), wants to lose weight so he calculates his RMR (2228 calories) & how many calories burned by his exercise (8 hours of TV). He goes to a calories burned calculator and sees that in 8 hours he burned 1087 calories, so he (incorrectly) calculates his TDEE to be 3315 calories (2228 + 1087). Then decreases that by 10% and sets his daily caloric target for 2983 calories (90% of 3315) so he can lose weight. But he GAINS weight! Does he have a slow metabolism? Does he have metabolic syndrome? NO! He is doing the same thing that millions of others do and has double counted the calories burned! Remember that 1087 calories burned *during* the TV watching? Well, in that 8 hours of TV watching only 344 calories were burned *by* the increased brain activity caused by watching TV, the other 743 calories would have been burned anyway if he was sleeping. That 743 calories is the from the resting metabolic rate and he already counted that in his 2228 calories RMR!!"
So I am curious, I am 6'1 30yo and weigh 345 so my RMR 2582 BMR 2937 TDEE 4038 & Caloric goal 3028. Today for example I walked at an average of 3.05mph 0.5incline for 60min 27sec and burned 573 calories. When I calculate my calories eaten/used I would only include 465 correct?
573-(2582/24hours)=573-108=465 because during that hour, my body would have used 108 calories even if i were sleeping?
This made me wonder if another mistake ive always done was taken out or added to my caloric goal when I shouldnt have. So if I consumed 3028 but burned the 465 would i need to consume another 465 to keep it there or is that already taken into account?
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Replies
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Is your calorie goal based on TDEE or what MFP gave you? If it's the former, then exercise is already factored in and you don't eat the calories back. If it's the latter, that's a good place to start. The database can overestimate for some people, so many will only eat back 50-75% of their exercise calories.2
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I dont really use what MFP calculates really. I just use it to help find calorie totals and log stuff but use this site's. Im not sure if I am allowed to post the link for the site I use to calculate. Do you mean the MFP database?
And so would I just consume the 3028 regardless of if I burn 500 or 1000 calories?0 -
You are correct about your walk. That's why I like this calculator. You can switch between "gross" (total calories burned) and "net" (extra calories brought on by walking/running which you could eat back as is). If you are using a fitness tracker, most of them account for that and only add a net difference to MFP - how accurate they are for you is a different matter.And so would I just consume the 3028 regardless of if I burn 500 or 1000 calories?
If using TDEE, that's how it works. You consume a consistent amount regardless of your activity on a certain day, but with one caveat: you will have done the work and estimated what your daily burn averages to, so it ends us being roughly the same as eating back a daily amount, except you are eating back a consistent average amount.
If I were you I would simplify without getting bogged down by the details. Pick a strategy (any strategy that sounds good to you), test it out for a few weeks, see how your weight behaves, then adjust accordingly.1 -
Using the MFP method...some of those steps are already account for in your activity level.
Ex: If you are set to sedentary and then take a 2 mile walk (approximately 4000 steps) most if not all of those steps are already accounted for in your calorie allotment. If that 4000 steps is all you take that day then if you add exercise calories on you are doubling up.
There is a chart that associates steps with activity level that I use...
Sedentary < 5000
Lightly Active < 7500
Mod Active < 10000
Very Active < 12500
Ext Active > 12500
I am set to lightly active and don't add any exercise calories unless I exceed 10000 steps. Sometimes I eat those extra calories and sometimes I don't. This method works for me. I tried other ways of doing it but I had to think too much about it so I simplified.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »You are correct about your walk. That's why I like this calculator. You can switch between "gross" (total calories burned) and "net" (extra calories brought on by walking/running which you could eat back as is). If you are using a fitness tracker, most of them account for that and only add a net difference to MFP - how accurate they are for you is a different matter.And so would I just consume the 3028 regardless of if I burn 500 or 1000 calories?
If using TDEE, that's how it works. You consume a consistent amount regardless of your activity on a certain day, but with one caveat: you will have done the work and estimated what your daily burn averages to, so it ends us being roughly the same as eating back a daily amount, except you are eating back a consistent average amount.
If I were you I would simplify without getting bogged down by the details. Pick a strategy (any strategy that sounds good to you), test it out for a few weeks, see how your weight behaves, then adjust accordingly.
The bolded bit^^
Whilst we can be reasonably accurate on the CI part of the equation, the CO part is a bit of a crapshoot.
That's why many of us start out at eating 50-75% of our exercise calories. It's not based on anything other than being a good place to start. We recognise that HRMs, gym machines and so on tend to overestimate burns.
Watching how things progress and relating any change in weight to calories consumed and expended and then adjusting is the way to go.1 -
Using the MFP method...some of those steps are already account for in your activity level.
Ex: If you are set to sedentary and then take a 2 mile walk (approximately 4000 steps) most if not all of those steps are already accounted for in your calorie allotment. If that 4000 steps is all you take that day then if you add exercise calories on you are doubling up.
There is a chart that associates steps with activity level that I use...
Sedentary < 5000
Lightly Active < 7500
Mod Active < 10000
Very Active < 12500
Ext Active > 12500
I am set to lightly active and don't add any exercise calories unless I exceed 10000 steps. Sometimes I eat those extra calories and sometimes I don't. This method works for me. I tried other ways of doing it but I had to think too much about it so I simplified.
Where did you get the steps in regards to activity levels? I like having something concrete with activity levels if these are accurate.1 -
i weigh 170 lbs need to lose 30lbs...how many calories a day allowed..to lose weight..thanks0
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to be honest i do not want to count calories the rest of my life..need to learn to eat differently a life style change..and oh yes cut back on those carbs and sugar0
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Lillymoo01 wrote: »Using the MFP method...some of those steps are already account for in your activity level.
Ex: If you are set to sedentary and then take a 2 mile walk (approximately 4000 steps) most if not all of those steps are already accounted for in your calorie allotment. If that 4000 steps is all you take that day then if you add exercise calories on you are doubling up.
There is a chart that associates steps with activity level that I use...
Sedentary < 5000
Lightly Active < 7500
Mod Active < 10000
Very Active < 12500
Ext Active > 12500
I am set to lightly active and don't add any exercise calories unless I exceed 10000 steps. Sometimes I eat those extra calories and sometimes I don't. This method works for me. I tried other ways of doing it but I had to think too much about it so I simplified.
Where did you get the steps in regards to activity levels? I like having something concrete with activity levels if these are accurate.
I would agree with the Sedentary and Lightly active steps shown in chart.
For me personally I have MFP set to Active which I am, it takes calories away from me on that setting if I don't have at least 13000 steps done.
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radgelinescheidt wrote: »i weigh 170 lbs need to lose 30lbs...how many calories a day allowed..to lose weight..thanks
Did you put your stats into MFP? aim for 1- 1.5lbs per week loss. See what number MFP gives you.
sorry OP, not meaning to hi jack your thread
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Lillymoo01 wrote: »Using the MFP method...some of those steps are already account for in your activity level.
Ex: If you are set to sedentary and then take a 2 mile walk (approximately 4000 steps) most if not all of those steps are already accounted for in your calorie allotment. If that 4000 steps is all you take that day then if you add exercise calories on you are doubling up.
There is a chart that associates steps with activity level that I use...
Sedentary < 5000
Lightly Active < 7500
Mod Active < 10000
Very Active < 12500
Ext Active > 12500
I am set to lightly active and don't add any exercise calories unless I exceed 10000 steps. Sometimes I eat those extra calories and sometimes I don't. This method works for me. I tried other ways of doing it but I had to think too much about it so I simplified.
Where did you get the steps in regards to activity levels? I like having something concrete with activity levels if these are accurate.
Here is the abstract on it...hope this helps. I too like something concrete. I also gives me the incentive (which I need on some days) to get moving. I found it too tiresome to try and divide out my daily activity from intentional walks so I just lump them altogether to determine my activity level.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14715035
Based on currently available evidence, we propose the following preliminary indices be used to classify pedometer-determined physical activity in healthy adults: (i). <5000 steps/day may be used as a 'sedentary lifestyle index'; (ii). 5000-7499 steps/day is typical of daily activity excluding sports/exercise and might be considered 'low active'; (iii). 7500-9999 likely includes some volitional activities (and/or elevated occupational activity demands) and might be considered 'somewhat active'; and (iv). >or=10000 steps/day indicates the point that should be used to classify individuals as 'active'. Individuals who take >12500 steps/day are likely to be classified as 'highly active'.0 -
Lillymoo01 wrote: »Using the MFP method...some of those steps are already account for in your activity level.
Ex: If you are set to sedentary and then take a 2 mile walk (approximately 4000 steps) most if not all of those steps are already accounted for in your calorie allotment. If that 4000 steps is all you take that day then if you add exercise calories on you are doubling up.
There is a chart that associates steps with activity level that I use...
Sedentary < 5000
Lightly Active < 7500
Mod Active < 10000
Very Active < 12500
Ext Active > 12500
I am set to lightly active and don't add any exercise calories unless I exceed 10000 steps. Sometimes I eat those extra calories and sometimes I don't. This method works for me. I tried other ways of doing it but I had to think too much about it so I simplified.
Where did you get the steps in regards to activity levels? I like having something concrete with activity levels if these are accurate.
Here is the abstract on it...hope this helps. I too like something concrete. I also gives me the incentive (which I need on some days) to get moving. I found it too tiresome to try and divide out my daily activity from intentional walks so I just lump them altogether to determine my activity level.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14715035
Based on currently available evidence, we propose the following preliminary indices be used to classify pedometer-determined physical activity in healthy adults: (i). <5000 steps/day may be used as a 'sedentary lifestyle index'; (ii). 5000-7499 steps/day is typical of daily activity excluding sports/exercise and might be considered 'low active'; (iii). 7500-9999 likely includes some volitional activities (and/or elevated occupational activity demands) and might be considered 'somewhat active'; and (iv). >or=10000 steps/day indicates the point that should be used to classify individuals as 'active'. Individuals who take >12500 steps/day are likely to be classified as 'highly active'.
MFPs activity settings are actually lower than these standard ones. I have self tested. I start getting extra back at around 3500 as sedentary. Then it increases at 2500 step increments.2 -
VintageFeline wrote: »Lillymoo01 wrote: »Using the MFP method...some of those steps are already account for in your activity level.
Ex: If you are set to sedentary and then take a 2 mile walk (approximately 4000 steps) most if not all of those steps are already accounted for in your calorie allotment. If that 4000 steps is all you take that day then if you add exercise calories on you are doubling up.
There is a chart that associates steps with activity level that I use...
Sedentary < 5000
Lightly Active < 7500
Mod Active < 10000
Very Active < 12500
Ext Active > 12500
I am set to lightly active and don't add any exercise calories unless I exceed 10000 steps. Sometimes I eat those extra calories and sometimes I don't. This method works for me. I tried other ways of doing it but I had to think too much about it so I simplified.
Where did you get the steps in regards to activity levels? I like having something concrete with activity levels if these are accurate.
Here is the abstract on it...hope this helps. I too like something concrete. I also gives me the incentive (which I need on some days) to get moving. I found it too tiresome to try and divide out my daily activity from intentional walks so I just lump them altogether to determine my activity level.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14715035
Based on currently available evidence, we propose the following preliminary indices be used to classify pedometer-determined physical activity in healthy adults: (i). <5000 steps/day may be used as a 'sedentary lifestyle index'; (ii). 5000-7499 steps/day is typical of daily activity excluding sports/exercise and might be considered 'low active'; (iii). 7500-9999 likely includes some volitional activities (and/or elevated occupational activity demands) and might be considered 'somewhat active'; and (iv). >or=10000 steps/day indicates the point that should be used to classify individuals as 'active'. Individuals who take >12500 steps/day are likely to be classified as 'highly active'.
MFPs activity settings are actually lower than these standard ones. I have self tested. I start getting extra back at around 3500 as sedentary. Then it increases at 2500 step increments.
I have read others say the same thing about the 3500.
Since I don't want to track exercise calories I decided to use the chart. There are variables that can change the accuracies such as duration and intensity of my walks. Yesterday I had 11,500 steps with 7600 of those steps being at the aerobic level. I am sure those 7600 steps burned more calories than the other 3900 steps where I just walked around the house.
Am losing about a quarter of a pound per week higher than what I set my weight loss to be. Which means my method is only 125 calories off.0 -
I'm set at sedentary, and so far today (it's morning here) I've done 2673 steps and earned an extra 25 calories. So i'm thinking anything over 2,000 steps starts yielding positive adjustments.0
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amusedmonkey wrote: »You are correct about your walk. That's why I like this calculator. You can switch between "gross" (total calories burned) and "net" (extra calories brought on by walking/running which you could eat back as is). If you are using a fitness tracker, most of them account for that and only add a net difference to MFP - how accurate they are for you is a different matter.And so would I just consume the 3028 regardless of if I burn 500 or 1000 calories?
If using TDEE, that's how it works. You consume a consistent amount regardless of your activity on a certain day, but with one caveat: you will have done the work and estimated what your daily burn averages to, so it ends us being roughly the same as eating back a daily amount, except you are eating back a consistent average amount.
If I were you I would simplify without getting bogged down by the details. Pick a strategy (any strategy that sounds good to you), test it out for a few weeks, see how your weight behaves, then adjust accordingly.
The bolded bit^^
Whilst we can be reasonably accurate on the CI part of the equation, the CO part is a bit of a crapshoot.
That's why many of us start out at eating 50-75% of our exercise calories. It's not based on anything other than being a good place to start. We recognise that HRMs, gym machines and so on tend to overestimate burns.
Watching how things progress and relating any change in weight to calories consumed and expended and then adjusting is the way to go.
For me half the fun is the science of it all. the more i learn about it the more i feel invested and can tune that way. that being said knowing what i need to do and actually doing it are 2 different things. Im just now getting back to the gym because my work schedule is finally more reasonale and my back has calmed down. Usually my back is causing so much discomfort even walking aggravates it and my leg starts to go numb or the pain goes up.
As for the number of steps, if I work a 6-8 hour shift i usually hit between 8000-10000 steps but if im not at work im usually on the couch either at my place or my friends'. So i consider myself to be sedentary or lightly active but now that ive been back to the gym, my goal is 3miles a day 5x a week for the next 2 weeks to get in a habit so I say lightly active. after the 2 weeks i might reduce the distance, increase the speed or change up what cardio I do but I will then implement weight training back in. But first I want to get my body back to being use to moving more like I was a year ago.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »You are correct about your walk. That's why I like this calculator. You can switch between "gross" (total calories burned) and "net" (extra calories brought on by walking/running which you could eat back as is). If you are using a fitness tracker, most of them account for that and only add a net difference to MFP - how accurate they are for you is a different matter.And so would I just consume the 3028 regardless of if I burn 500 or 1000 calories?
If using TDEE, that's how it works. You consume a consistent amount regardless of your activity on a certain day, but with one caveat: you will have done the work and estimated what your daily burn averages to, so it ends us being roughly the same as eating back a daily amount, except you are eating back a consistent average amount.
If I were you I would simplify without getting bogged down by the details. Pick a strategy (any strategy that sounds good to you), test it out for a few weeks, see how your weight behaves, then adjust accordingly.
The bolded bit^^
Whilst we can be reasonably accurate on the CI part of the equation, the CO part is a bit of a crapshoot.
That's why many of us start out at eating 50-75% of our exercise calories. It's not based on anything other than being a good place to start. We recognise that HRMs, gym machines and so on tend to overestimate burns.
Watching how things progress and relating any change in weight to calories consumed and expended and then adjusting is the way to go.
For me half the fun is the science of it all. the more i learn about it the more i feel invested and can tune that way. that being said knowing what i need to do and actually doing it are 2 different things. Im just now getting back to the gym because my work schedule is finally more reasonale and my back has calmed down. Usually my back is causing so much discomfort even walking aggravates it and my leg starts to go numb or the pain goes up.
As for the number of steps, if I work a 6-8 hour shift i usually hit between 8000-10000 steps but if im not at work im usually on the couch either at my place or my friends'. So i consider myself to be sedentary or lightly active but now that ive been back to the gym, my goal is 3miles a day 5x a week for the next 2 weeks to get in a habit so I say lightly active. after the 2 weeks i might reduce the distance, increase the speed or change up what cardio I do but I will then implement weight training back in. But first I want to get my body back to being use to moving more like I was a year ago.
I too enjoy reading up and learning new things especially regarding nutrition and exercise. However someones one can get too bogged down in the numbers and forget the most important part, putting it in to practise.
If you want to know your TDEE, then pick a calorie goal (it can literally be any number). Weigh and log everything you eat and drink for 4 + weeks and track your weight. At the end you will have your Calories In and a weight change from which you can calculate your TDEE (if you assume that 1lb loss/gain is 3500 calories).
Also at 345lbs you have a long way to go so just start now. If you predict your TDEE is 4000 calories then I would eat somewhere near 3000 so that you should lose 2lbs per week.1 -
I too enjoy reading up and learning new things especially regarding nutrition and exercise. However someones one can get too bogged down in the numbers and forget the most important part, putting it in to practise.trigden1991 wrote: »
If you want to know your TDEE, then pick a calorie goal (it can literally be any number). Weigh and log everything you eat and drink for 4 + weeks and track your weight. At the end you will have your Calories In and a weight change from which you can calculate your TDEE (if you assume that 1lb loss/gain is 3500 calories).
Also at 345lbs you have a long way to go so just start now. If you predict your TDEE is 4000 calories then I would eat somewhere near 3000 so that you should lose 2lbs per week. [/quote]
My post wasn't regarding what my TDEE and caloric goals were(they're in the post actually). It was more about information I had read being accurate and if i was interpreting it correctly. But thanks for trying to help!
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