Help! I'm not losing!
hlizard1
Posts: 3 Member
I am tracking everything! Eating under1200 calories that is recommended for me to reach my goal weight. I exercise 45 to one hour on an elliptical daily. Work out on a Simply Fit Board (twist and planks and other exercises daily) I clean for a living, so that keeps me active for a solid 6 hours a day (no breaks). What am I doing wrong??? It had been 15 days and not even a loss of a 1/2 pound!!
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Replies
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Why are you eating under 1200 cals? That is your goal, with a deficit already calculated in. Less is not advisable, especially considering 1200 is low for nearly all women.
How are you determining your intake - you say you're tracking, but are you weighing (solids) and measuring (liquids) absolutely everything you put in your mouth and using appropriate/accurate database entries?
Is the extra exercise new to your routine? You could be retaining fluid...5 -
I am to be eating 1200 calories a day I eat 1185 one day 1215 another day 1205 , 1180, 1175... and so on. I am measuring everything ... correctly solids, liguids. I am 5 foot tall and need to lose 25 lbs.1
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You need to be eating MORE considering the amount of exercise you are doing. You need to eat back some of those exercise calories or your body will think you're starving and the weight won't shift
Try increasing to 1500 for a week and see how you go3 -
I am to be eating 1200 calories a day I eat 1185 one day 1215 another day 1205 , 1180, 1175... and so on. I am measuring everything ... correctly solids, liguids. I am 5 foot tall and need to lose 25 lbs.
Measuring is different to weighing. If you don't have one, a food scale is priceless and will allow to be more accurate with tracking.
You don't need more food. If you were eating at a deficit you would be losing.11 -
Did you just start your 1200 calorie plan? Or it's been a while?
Many people will say when you eat very little calories you don't lose, something about the body going on starvation mode...That might only true if you have doing it for a while.
Anytime you are, or create, or increase your calorie deficit, you will lose weight. End of the story.
The fact that you are not losing means you are not on a deficit.0 -
jessicalwakeling wrote: »You need to be eating MORE considering the amount of exercise you are doing. You need to eat back some of those exercise calories or your body will think you're starving and the weight won't shift
Try increasing to 1500 for a week and see how you go
Oops...thanks for the info... I am going to try that. I really appreciate your help!1 -
jessicalwakeling wrote: »You need to be eating MORE considering the amount of exercise you are doing. You need to eat back some of those exercise calories or your body will think you're starving and the weight won't shift
Try increasing to 1500 for a week and see how you go
Oops...thanks for the info... I am going to try that. I really appreciate your help!
@hlizard1... Your body doesn't go in to starvation mode - if it did, how do you explain people suffering with anorexia, or prisoners of war who were starved? Do/did these people remain fat? Please dont listen to this advice.13 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »jessicalwakeling wrote: »You need to be eating MORE considering the amount of exercise you are doing. You need to eat back some of those exercise calories or your body will think you're starving and the weight won't shift
Try increasing to 1500 for a week and see how you go
Oops...thanks for the info... I am going to try that. I really appreciate your help!
@hlizard1... Your body doesn't go in to starvation mode - if it did, how do you explain people suffering with anorexia, or prisoners of war who were starved? Do/did these people remain fat? Please dont listen to this advice.
People tend to choose the easiest way/advice.
Oh yes, I have to eat more to lose weight. Awesome!4 -
true... be able to eat as much as you can and still reach your goal0
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To start with it is early days. Give it time.
Like me you are on the short side and don't have a huge amount to lose. Your TDEE without additional exercise is probably not much more than 1400 which means quick weight loss while eating at the minimum of 1200 will be slow. Try and work out how many calories you burn with the elliptical with your 45 minutes daily and eat half of that back but no more. If you have your daily activity set as lightly active or active it won't take you over the 1200 but this daily activity with cleaning will be included.
Lastly make sure you weight all solids and measure all liquids with measuring cups/spoons. If you don't have digital kitchen scales invest in some. Us shorties don't have the luxury of too many errors as our deficit is quite small to begin with.
Good luck.3 -
There is no such thing as "starvation mode." You also do not have to eat back exercise calories. In fact, how do you know you are measuring them accurately? MFP's numbers are not accurate and often too generous. And the numbers exercise machines give you are also not accurate / calibrated.
Two things to consider: try using a food scale -- it's more accurate than measuring cups, for example. The other thing: it sounds like you've just added in new exercise? If so: it's usual for the scale to go up or stay the same for a while until you get into the groove of it. (Muscles will retain more water than usual in the beginning of a program. If this is the case, soon you'll get rid of that water and notice the scale go down.)4 -
What is your starting weight?0
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I think you're eating more than you think I know you made a goal of eating less than 1200 calories (which wasn't a good idea); however, since you're probably going by food labels (which does underestimate calories) you're eating more than you think. Since you want to only lose 25 pounds update your information on MFP to state you want to lose 0.5 pounds and eat at the caloric intake provided.
I agree with the others users who mentioned buying a food scale would be a good idea (measuring cup for liquids and the scale for solid food). Use the scale on a consistent basis. Start tracking your workout routine and try to eat back at least half of it. Let us know how things go.
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1200 is low, but not terribly low. It really depends on the individual and their individual goals. Can you give us an example day including food weights, please?
Starvation mode does not exist, otherwise this chap who went on a medically supervised fast of 382 days WITHOUT eating, would not have been possible - and lost 175lb.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/
You'd also need the organs in the body to initiate a starvation mode - which ones would do this please? Answer? This is none, even the thyroid only retards the metabolism by around 15%.2 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
@hlizard1... Your body doesn't go in to starvation mode - if it did, how do you explain people suffering with anorexia, or prisoners of war who were starved? Do/did these people remain fat? Please dont listen to this advice.
Starvation mode is actually a real thing, but most people don't understand how it works. Those with 20 - 40 lbs to lose should not eat 1200 calories a day. It is likely the OP is carrying water weight due to an increase in activity and is actually losing body mass (mostly lean body mass, because the body is chasing those easy to get stores of energy, because it doesn't have enough energy to go after the fat).
Does anyone here who doubts the existence of starvation mode want the OP to *keep* eating 1200 a day? Because that seems to be what you're arguing. I don't agree. Starvation mode doesn't mean you stop losing weight (although your metabolism will eventually slow down to compensate, so in time, yes). It means the body starts to consume itself, usually everything *but* the fat cells. Anorexics get brittle bones, lose all muscle mass, and can even suffer from brain damage as they try desperately to get rid of an inch of fat on their stomachs. But, yes, that fat does go away eventually, but at what cost?
So, to the OP, eat 1500 calories a day instead, at least. Don't torture yourself. Add weight lifting to your exercise regime. Try different activities, jogging, walking, jump rope, cycling, swimming (if possible). Eat good fats, protein, and don't eat at such a deficit that you feel strapped of energy and grumpy all day. Eat for energy during the day. Eat to feel satisfied (lightly full) once your day has ended. Stick with it. It's normal to have weeks of no weight loss. Bloating, etc, can cause that.2 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
@hlizard1... Your body doesn't go in to starvation mode - if it did, how do you explain people suffering with anorexia, or prisoners of war who were starved? Do/did these people remain fat? Please dont listen to this advice.
Starvation mode is actually a real thing, but most people don't understand how it works. Those with 20 - 40 lbs to lose should not eat 1200 calories a day. It is likely the OP is carrying water weight due to an increase in activity and is actually losing body mass (mostly lean body mass, because the body is chasing those easy to get stores of energy, because it doesn't have enough energy to go after the fat).
Does anyone here who doubts the existence of starvation mode want the OP to *keep* eating 1200 a day? Because that seems to be what you're arguing. I don't agree. Starvation mode doesn't mean you stop losing weight (although your metabolism will eventually slow down to compensate, so in time, yes). It means the body starts to consume itself, usually everything *but* the fat cells. Anorexics get brittle bones, lose all muscle mass, and can even suffer from brain damage as they try desperately to get rid of an inch of fat on their stomachs. But, yes, that fat does go away eventually, but at what cost?
So, to the OP, eat 1500 calories a day instead, at least. Don't torture yourself. Add weight lifting to your exercise regime. Try different activities, jogging, walking, jump rope, cycling, swimming (if possible). Eat good fats, protein, and don't eat at such a deficit that you feel strapped of energy and grumpy all day. Eat for energy during the day. Eat to feel satisfied (lightly full) once your day has ended. Stick with it. It's normal to have weeks of no weight loss. Bloating, etc, can cause that.
Starvation mode is a myth. Fantasy. There is something called adaptive thermogenesis which is a much better explanation for what you're explaining (I think). When we starve, after using all our fat sources (because we lose weight when we starve we do not hold onto it) our bodies use stores from internal organs to fuel energy and then... there is nothing. A dismal ending.
Starvation mode is a psychological excuse and a way into our pockets through the diet industry to sell miricle weight loss cures.
I too thought starvation mode real, but there is NO scientific evidence supporting this. It simply does not exist.6 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
@hlizard1... Your body doesn't go in to starvation mode - if it did, how do you explain people suffering with anorexia, or prisoners of war who were starved? Do/did these people remain fat? Please dont listen to this advice.
Starvation mode is actually a real thing, but most people don't understand how it works. Those with 20 - 40 lbs to lose should not eat 1200 calories a day. It is likely the OP is carrying water weight due to an increase in activity and is actually losing body mass (mostly lean body mass, because the body is chasing those easy to get stores of energy, because it doesn't have enough energy to go after the fat).
Does anyone here who doubts the existence of starvation mode want the OP to *keep* eating 1200 a day? Because that seems to be what you're arguing. I don't agree. Starvation mode doesn't mean you stop losing weight (although your metabolism will eventually slow down to compensate, so in time, yes). It means the body starts to consume itself, usually everything *but* the fat cells. Anorexics get brittle bones, lose all muscle mass, and can even suffer from brain damage as they try desperately to get rid of an inch of fat on their stomachs. But, yes, that fat does go away eventually, but at what cost?
So, to the OP, eat 1500 calories a day instead, at least. Don't torture yourself. Add weight lifting to your exercise regime. Try different activities, jogging, walking, jump rope, cycling, swimming (if possible). Eat good fats, protein, and don't eat at such a deficit that you feel strapped of energy and grumpy all day. Eat for energy during the day. Eat to feel satisfied (lightly full) once your day has ended. Stick with it. It's normal to have weeks of no weight loss. Bloating, etc, can cause that.
Did you read my study above? I don't think you did. 382 days WITHOUT eating. Nothing you claimed happened, and the studied man got to a normal weight.
The claims you make are not backed by science.
Starvation mode literally DOES NOT exist because there is not an organ/body part that goes into this mode.
Unless you'd like to suggest the hormones involved in this "mode"?
Assuming your protein levels are high enough to cover your muscular needs and training is telling the body to use the protein for muscle repair, you will lose very little muscle. You will burn through fat stores because, well, thats what stored fat is there for - energy and maintaining life in times of famine. Thats why we have fat cells, why we add fat in times of plenty.
I'm not suggesting people should deliberately starve themselves, far from it but your claims are being plucked from the air.
kq1981 nailed it perfectly.8 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
@hlizard1... Your body doesn't go in to starvation mode - if it did, how do you explain people suffering with anorexia, or prisoners of war who were starved? Do/did these people remain fat? Please dont listen to this advice.
Starvation mode is actually a real thing, but most people don't understand how it works. Those with 20 - 40 lbs to lose should not eat 1200 calories a day. It is likely the OP is carrying water weight due to an increase in activity and is actually losing body mass (mostly lean body mass, because the body is chasing those easy to get stores of energy, because it doesn't have enough energy to go after the fat).
Does anyone here who doubts the existence of starvation mode want the OP to *keep* eating 1200 a day? Because that seems to be what you're arguing. I don't agree. Starvation mode doesn't mean you stop losing weight (although your metabolism will eventually slow down to compensate, so in time, yes). It means the body starts to consume itself, usually everything *but* the fat cells. Anorexics get brittle bones, lose all muscle mass, and can even suffer from brain damage as they try desperately to get rid of an inch of fat on their stomachs. But, yes, that fat does go away eventually, but at what cost?
So, to the OP, eat 1500 calories a day instead, at least. Don't torture yourself. Add weight lifting to your exercise regime. Try different activities, jogging, walking, jump rope, cycling, swimming (if possible). Eat good fats, protein, and don't eat at such a deficit that you feel strapped of energy and grumpy all day. Eat for energy during the day. Eat to feel satisfied (lightly full) once your day has ended. Stick with it. It's normal to have weeks of no weight loss. Bloating, etc, can cause that.
You are correct that eating too big of a deficit will result in more lean mass loss. However, "starvation mode" in the sense that your body will "think you're starving and the weight won't shift" does not exist at all. OP would be losing weight if she was eating a deficit. And considering it's only been 2 weeks, she very well may be and the loss is just being masked by water weight from an increase in exercise, ToM, sodium intake, etc.
Using OPs stats (assuming she is only 25lbs over a BMI of 25) with a TDEE calculator for sedentary puts her at 1465 kcal/day. Without knowing anything else about the intensity of her exercise, or what kind of cleaning is involved with her job (light house cleaning? deep cleaning involving a lot of manual scrubbing?), I think 1500 would be a fair guess at her NEAT for the day, before exercise. Therefore, in order to lose weight she DOES need to net 1200 kcal/day (which would be a very appropriate rate of loss at .5 lbs/week). This type of situation is common with shorter women, since their TDEE tends to be low in the first place. Where a calorie goal of 1200 might not be appropriate for a woman that is 5' 8" and has 25lbs to lose, it is perfectly fine for a woman that is 5' with 25lbs to lose.
To the OP, we need more information in order to help you better:
1. What is your current weight?
2. Do you measure your food using a food scale, or with cups and measuring spoons? A food scale is hands down the better option here.
3. Do you log your exercise in MFP? If so, how do you determine the number of calories burned? The calorie burns estimated by both MFP and most elliptical machines are often very over inflated.
4. How long have you been exercising? You stated that you have been tracking your food for 2 weeks, if you also just started at the gym everyday there may be some water retention going on from a new workout routine.
5. Can you open your food diary? We can look through some of the entries to see if we can spot anything that might be killing your deficit.
Finally, remember that this is a marathon, not a sprint - especially for someone your height. 15 days is a very short period of time, and considering you are probably looking at a rate of loss somewhere between .5-1 lb/week, it may take a month before you start seeing progress.5 -
Agreed with starvation mode being a myth.
OP, get a food scale, start weighing everything that isn't a liquid (yes, weigh mayo/butter/nut butter), and use those cups/spoons for liquid only. Weight go prepackaged/preweighed items, too (they can technically be as much as 20% over or under the stated weight on the packaging). Log everything that you cook with, eat and drink. And, eat at the 1200 cal mark. With your stats, you could stand to eat a bit more and still lose the weight.2 -
What is your starting weight? If your smaller, it's a little harder to lose weight. Perseverance is key.1
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cerise_noir wrote: »Agreed with starvation mode being a myth.
OP, get a food scale, start weighing everything that isn't a liquid (yes, weigh mayo/butter/nut butter), and use those cups/spoons for liquid only. Weight go prepackaged/preweighed items, too (they can technically be as much as 20% over or under the stated weight on the packaging). Log everything that you cook with, eat and drink. And, eat at the 1200 cal mark. With your stats, you could stand to eat a bit more and still lose the weight.
This. Get a scale and weigh everything. But don't change what you are eating just yet (which probably means over 1200 calories) until you get a handle on how much you actually have been eating. So do this for a week or so. Then start dropping from the actual calories consumed (not your current guess) 100-200 a day until you get to a point that you are losing, but not killing yourself to do it.
It's pretty clear you are eating more than 1200 calories, and simply don't know it. Given your activity level, you'd be losing at 1200. Without weighing everything, you simply don't know.
I'll give you my example. Before I got a scale I was eating a certain cereal for breakfast. I was measuring out the serving size on the box and using the corresponding calories. So 2/3's of a cup for ~250 calories (if I remember correctly). But when I got a scale, I found the 2/3's a cup was about 40% more in weight than on the box so I was eating about 40% more calories than I honestly thought for breakfast. Basically, the label on the box was wrong based on cups vs grams. I've stopped eating that cereal because I got pissed off about it.
Beyond that, you will need to give it more than 2 weeks. Sorry about that but our bodies just don't work how we want them too
4 -
1200 is low, but not terribly low. It really depends on the individual and their individual goals. Can you give us an example day including food weights, please?
Starvation mode does not exist, otherwise this chap who went on a medically supervised fast of 382 days WITHOUT eating, would not have been possible - and lost 175lb.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/
You'd also need the organs in the body to initiate a starvation mode - which ones would do this please? Answer? This is none, even the thyroid only retards the metabolism by around 15%.
Thank you for this article! Very interesting!0 -
Just another thought, how often are you weighing yourself? If weekly you may have caught an up weight and be missing the down ones that weighing daily catches. I like to weigh daily and use a libra (happy scale for iphone) to see my weight trends. With my roller coaster ups and downs, I would hate weighing weekly!1
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livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
@hlizard1... Your body doesn't go in to starvation mode - if it did, how do you explain people suffering with anorexia, or prisoners of war who were starved? Do/did these people remain fat? Please dont listen to this advice.
Starvation mode is actually a real thing, but most people don't understand how it works. Those with 20 - 40 lbs to lose should not eat 1200 calories a day. It is likely the OP is carrying water weight due to an increase in activity and is actually losing body mass (mostly lean body mass, because the body is chasing those easy to get stores of energy, because it doesn't have enough energy to go after the fat).
Does anyone here who doubts the existence of starvation mode want the OP to *keep* eating 1200 a day? Because that seems to be what you're arguing. I don't agree. Starvation mode doesn't mean you stop losing weight (although your metabolism will eventually slow down to compensate, so in time, yes). It means the body starts to consume itself, usually everything *but* the fat cells. Anorexics get brittle bones, lose all muscle mass, and can even suffer from brain damage as they try desperately to get rid of an inch of fat on their stomachs. But, yes, that fat does go away eventually, but at what cost?
So, to the OP, eat 1500 calories a day instead, at least. Don't torture yourself. Add weight lifting to your exercise regime. Try different activities, jogging, walking, jump rope, cycling, swimming (if possible). Eat good fats, protein, and don't eat at such a deficit that you feel strapped of energy and grumpy all day. Eat for energy during the day. Eat to feel satisfied (lightly full) once your day has ended. Stick with it. It's normal to have weeks of no weight loss. Bloating, etc, can cause that.
This is why I think it shouldn't be called starvation mode. It's very confusing. It should be called cannabilization, because that's what it is. As a last ditch effort to keep the body running in extreme starvation, the body will start eating itself using the energy from muscles and organs.4 -
livingleanlivingclean wrote: »I am to be eating 1200 calories a day I eat 1185 one day 1215 another day 1205 , 1180, 1175... and so on. I am measuring everything ... correctly solids, liguids. I am 5 foot tall and need to lose 25 lbs.
Measuring is different to weighing. If you don't have one, a food scale is priceless and will allow to be more accurate with tracking.
You don't need more food. If you were eating at a deficit you would be losing.
I'm buying myself a food scale - I think they make all the difference in the world.3 -
Just another thought, how often are you weighing yourself? If weekly you may have caught an up weight and be missing the down ones that weighing daily catches. I like to weigh daily and use a libra (happy scale for iphone) to see my weight trends. With my roller coaster ups and downs, I would hate weighing weekly!
I weigh in every day too - I tihnk it helps keep me on track. Also, I think that it helps you learn how your body deals with certain conditions; i.e., responses when you up your calories (or lower) for a day or two, a heavy/light exercise day or a couple of days w/no exercise compared with what you eat, etc.3 -
For someone 5' 1200 cals is probably not too low, however if you clean for a living you should probably be set as at least lightly active and it would surely give you more calories than that. I'm sedentary and get 1200 cals. I'm also 5' btw;) and with 1200 cals and an hour of exercise bike per day (5-6 days/wk) im losing fine. I weigh everything to ensure accuracy because at 5' it is much harder to have a large deficit;)2
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Colorscheme wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
@hlizard1... Your body doesn't go in to starvation mode - if it did, how do you explain people suffering with anorexia, or prisoners of war who were starved? Do/did these people remain fat? Please dont listen to this advice.
Starvation mode is actually a real thing, but most people don't understand how it works. Those with 20 - 40 lbs to lose should not eat 1200 calories a day. It is likely the OP is carrying water weight due to an increase in activity and is actually losing body mass (mostly lean body mass, because the body is chasing those easy to get stores of energy, because it doesn't have enough energy to go after the fat).
Does anyone here who doubts the existence of starvation mode want the OP to *keep* eating 1200 a day? Because that seems to be what you're arguing. I don't agree. Starvation mode doesn't mean you stop losing weight (although your metabolism will eventually slow down to compensate, so in time, yes). It means the body starts to consume itself, usually everything *but* the fat cells. Anorexics get brittle bones, lose all muscle mass, and can even suffer from brain damage as they try desperately to get rid of an inch of fat on their stomachs. But, yes, that fat does go away eventually, but at what cost?
So, to the OP, eat 1500 calories a day instead, at least. Don't torture yourself. Add weight lifting to your exercise regime. Try different activities, jogging, walking, jump rope, cycling, swimming (if possible). Eat good fats, protein, and don't eat at such a deficit that you feel strapped of energy and grumpy all day. Eat for energy during the day. Eat to feel satisfied (lightly full) once your day has ended. Stick with it. It's normal to have weeks of no weight loss. Bloating, etc, can cause that.
This is why I think it shouldn't be called starvation mode. It's very confusing. It should be called cannabilization, because that's what it is. As a last ditch effort to keep the body running in extreme starvation, the body will start eating itself using the energy from muscles and organs.
But it's still not going to happen for someone who is 5 feet tall and consuming 1200 calories per day and not losing weight. Completely different circumstances. (I know you aren't saying it is)0 -
Starvation mode is clearly a trigger word. I do *not* mean starvation mode as in "If you eat too little, you'll just get fatter." No, that's not true. I mean that when a person with a small amount to lose (not like the 400 lb guy in the study) cuts their calories too much, they lose at a rate of 80% lean body mass to 20% fat loss. And every pound they lose becomes worth less than the reverse--when they're eating enough to fuel their bodies to burn fat. So it's a lot of unnecessary torture.
If the OP is comfortable with 1200 calories a day, or finds out she keeps forgetting to log her morning 40 oz Mountain Dew (not that that's the case), then we might be onto something. If she's indeed eating 1200 a day, strapped of energy, and ready to give up, I'm here to tell her to eat a little more, eat a little better, and enjoy life again. 2 -
nutmegoreo wrote: »Colorscheme wrote: »livingleanlivingclean wrote: »
@hlizard1... Your body doesn't go in to starvation mode - if it did, how do you explain people suffering with anorexia, or prisoners of war who were starved? Do/did these people remain fat? Please dont listen to this advice.
Starvation mode is actually a real thing, but most people don't understand how it works. Those with 20 - 40 lbs to lose should not eat 1200 calories a day. It is likely the OP is carrying water weight due to an increase in activity and is actually losing body mass (mostly lean body mass, because the body is chasing those easy to get stores of energy, because it doesn't have enough energy to go after the fat).
Does anyone here who doubts the existence of starvation mode want the OP to *keep* eating 1200 a day? Because that seems to be what you're arguing. I don't agree. Starvation mode doesn't mean you stop losing weight (although your metabolism will eventually slow down to compensate, so in time, yes). It means the body starts to consume itself, usually everything *but* the fat cells. Anorexics get brittle bones, lose all muscle mass, and can even suffer from brain damage as they try desperately to get rid of an inch of fat on their stomachs. But, yes, that fat does go away eventually, but at what cost?
So, to the OP, eat 1500 calories a day instead, at least. Don't torture yourself. Add weight lifting to your exercise regime. Try different activities, jogging, walking, jump rope, cycling, swimming (if possible). Eat good fats, protein, and don't eat at such a deficit that you feel strapped of energy and grumpy all day. Eat for energy during the day. Eat to feel satisfied (lightly full) once your day has ended. Stick with it. It's normal to have weeks of no weight loss. Bloating, etc, can cause that.
This is why I think it shouldn't be called starvation mode. It's very confusing. It should be called cannabilization, because that's what it is. As a last ditch effort to keep the body running in extreme starvation, the body will start eating itself using the energy from muscles and organs.
But it's still not going to happen for someone who is 5 feet tall and consuming 1200 calories per day and not losing weight. Completely different circumstances. (I know you aren't saying it is)
Nope, not at all. But I don't think starvation mode is a good name for it at all because it's being equated, and wrongly so, with people not being able to lose weight. Which we know is not what happens.0
This discussion has been closed.
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