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Is the not so exact science of calorie tracking/logging driving you bonkers? Any Type As or ISTJs?
RCKT82
Posts: 409 Member
I'm a very strong Type A personality or ISTJ for those who follow MBTI. Many times I'm over analyzing my numbers and I know I am stressing myself out. I'm a true ISTJ, so I like to track everything and facts are the law. I'm driving myself bonkers by trying to make an exact science out of the not so exact science of calorie and macro-nutrient management. I know it can be exact, but unless you have a host of lab equipment, you are most likely doing the guesstimate game of using:
I know they're all good tools (not perfect) for giving you a better understanding of what you're putting in your body and how your body is basically responding. I will continue to use these tools because the only other choice is flying completely dark. I know that trial and error is the best rule of thumb for getting the results you want. Even though I have a pretty good idea of how my body is responding to my goals, the lack of fidelity drives me up the wall!!!
For the most part, I deal with it the best that I can and try to take it for what it is. It's just tools to help and not exact. I just can't stop myself from adjusting my goals daily because that just how I am. I track and analyze everything. I know I'm probably wasting my time since the adjustments are so small compared to the overall picture. Even so, I just can't leave it alone. I'm always adjusting my daily calorie goals based on the days calorie burns from basic activities and adjusting my exercise burn of my HRM by subtracting what my smart watch is telling me what I burn an hour. Plus there's the debate of how much of a deficit to run and whether or not to apply that deficit to exercise/activity burns.
Does this bother anyone else? Are you also driving yourself crazy? If so, how are you coping? Are you just ignoring it since fretting over it is just wasted energy?
Please tell me I'm not the only crazy person doing this?
- Activity trackers - Daily calorie burns based on age, gender, weight, height, and heart-rate.
- HRMs - Exercise burns
- Body analysis equipment - for measuring % body fat, % muscle mass, and resting metabolism.
- *Food scales - Measuring calories and macronutrients. I struggle with the accuracy when not all cuts of meat are the same and water content can vary quite a bit (weight), all of which are not good for calorie and macro-nutrient precision.
I know they're all good tools (not perfect) for giving you a better understanding of what you're putting in your body and how your body is basically responding. I will continue to use these tools because the only other choice is flying completely dark. I know that trial and error is the best rule of thumb for getting the results you want. Even though I have a pretty good idea of how my body is responding to my goals, the lack of fidelity drives me up the wall!!!
For the most part, I deal with it the best that I can and try to take it for what it is. It's just tools to help and not exact. I just can't stop myself from adjusting my goals daily because that just how I am. I track and analyze everything. I know I'm probably wasting my time since the adjustments are so small compared to the overall picture. Even so, I just can't leave it alone. I'm always adjusting my daily calorie goals based on the days calorie burns from basic activities and adjusting my exercise burn of my HRM by subtracting what my smart watch is telling me what I burn an hour. Plus there's the debate of how much of a deficit to run and whether or not to apply that deficit to exercise/activity burns.
Does this bother anyone else? Are you also driving yourself crazy? If so, how are you coping? Are you just ignoring it since fretting over it is just wasted energy?
Please tell me I'm not the only crazy person doing this?
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Replies
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Life's too short, if I go up 1lb, I cut back the week after.
Make sure I get reasonable protein and fat. Anything else, I don't fret about, I'm too busy having a happy active life.5 -
It's definitely wasted energy.
I am a scientist and did the whole biology lab work thing. I love data. But I know from experience that even in a lab setting with carefully controlled materials and methods there is variance. There are multiple sources of error that are only under your control to a degree. Fretting over these things so long as they are within accepted ranges (i.e. everything's calibrated and functioning properly and you are following proper protocols) is futile.
There's nothing wrong with being exacting with measurements, but if you think you're driving yourself crazy, you should find a way to back off a bit and take a breath.
Unnecessary stress is not going to have a positive affect on your results.12 -
Fellow ISTJ here, but I don't consider myself a Type A personality, and I definitely don't kill myself trying to be 100% accurate 100% of the time. I follow the results. I have MFP set for me to lose 1 lb/week. My average rate of loss is...you guessed it! 1 lb/week. I'm happy. If that changes, I'll look at methods and variables and see what I think needs to be adjusted. No need to overthink something that's working.5
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you could buy a scale and weigh everything you consume to be more accurate. that should give you more accurate numbers. i didn't see you said you used a scale. thats the only way to know what your consuming. labels are crap. fyi.1
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INTJ here, but years of experience in an athletic profession and later working in a biological discipline has taught me that the degree of accuracy is relative and unnecessary for most people. The demand for accuracy will increase as you attempt a higher level of physical performance.
Understanding that the food industry is working with a 20% margin of error, so <20% error is my target goal.2 -
Even with a lab, you can get closer and better approximations, but you'll never get "exact".
"Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful"6 -
Same here. When I started to feel crazy, I made a conscious effort to detach myself from the numbers for a while.
I tried to stop logging and eating intuitively a few times, with mixed results. Now I'm logging my food and I try to be as accurate as I can, and I admit that eating out is still a major stress for me because I know I won't be accurate. Definitely not happy about it, it's something I'll have to deal with sooner or later. But now I am more relaxed about a number of other things and I think that's progress.
For example, I stopped weighing myself everyday a few months ago. I weigh in once a week and that's fine.
Last month I lost my Fitbit and I think it's the best thing that could happen to me right now. It was a useful tool to get my a** off the couch and get a good estimate of my TDEE, but I was getting too obsessed with all of the data instead of focusing on building lifelong habits.
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I'm anal, but not that anal. Bad enough weighing my food and keeping a food diary is considered part and parcel with ED.2
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Also ISTJ. Just remember that the concept of "significant digits" applies. The system of CI=CO just isn't that accurate, so the best you can do is work off your results. And that takes time and iteration. Churn isn't a good use of time.
I do, however, get all anal about my training schedule. I can control that. So I do.
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Being exact isn't necessary for nutrition and weight management. Being in the ballpark, and being there over time, creates the necessary precision.4
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During my weight loss phase I was pretty 'loosey-goosey' and still lost 50lbs no problem. I only tracked calorie intake (on a piece of paper), and didn't track/pay attention to macros at all (still don't). Now I'm a few years into maintenance and I still keep things pretty casual, and I still have no issues with accuracy. I spot check a day here and there on MFP, but for the most part still track my calorie intake on paper (or in my head). I've been at this whole thing long enough to know what I need to do to manage my weight and I also recognize seasonal trends etc.0
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Also ISTJ. Just remember that the concept of "significant digits" applies. The system of CI=CO just isn't that accurate, so the best you can do is work off your results. And that takes time and iteration. Churn isn't a good use of time.
I do, however, get all anal about my training schedule. I can control that. So I do.
I do find it funny when I see calculations or answers with WAY more significant digits than necessary. That doesn't make the answer more accurate
I round my exercise calories to two significant digits because I know the accuracy of the estimate doesn't merit any more precision.
In my engineering studies, I learned early on that most models/equations I use for design give an answer that is ±20%. And yet we built bridges, skyscrapers, and flew to the moon with all of that.
I use a food scale whenever I'm at home for better accuracy and consistency and because it keeps my "eye" scale calibrated for when I'm out and need to estimate portions. That, plus a feedback loop based on my long term weight trends, has let me keep my weight where I've wanted it for 6+ years. I actually need to eat a bit more than the models and MFP tell me, either due to a higher NEAT from being a fidgety person or because of slight inaccuracies (although importantly, consistent) in food logging. Regardless of the reason, the tool has been VERY useful when applied.8 -
The_Enginerd wrote: »Also ISTJ. Just remember that the concept of "significant digits" applies. The system of CI=CO just isn't that accurate, so the best you can do is work off your results. And that takes time and iteration. Churn isn't a good use of time.
I do, however, get all anal about my training schedule. I can control that. So I do.
I do find it funny when I see calculations or answers with WAY more significant digits than necessary. That doesn't make the answer more accurate I round my exercise calories to two significant digits because I know the accuracy of the estimate doesn't merit any more precision.
In my engineering studies, I learned early on that most models/equations I use for design give an answer that is ±20%. And yet we built bridges, skyscrapers, and flew to the moon with all of that.
I use a food scale whenever I'm at home for better accuracy and consistency and because it keeps my "eye" scale calibrated for when I'm out and need to estimate portions. That, plus a feedback loop based on my long term weight trends, has let me keep my weight where I've wanted it for 6+ years. I actually need to eat a bit more than the models and MFP tell me, either due to a higher NEAT from being a fidgety person or because of slight inaccuracies (although importantly, consistent) in food logging. Regardless of the reason, the tool has been VERY useful when applied.
Yup. In plasma physics, where I did my graduate work, we were often happy if our calculated answer came within an order of magnitude of the measured answer. Talk about error bars! I'm pretty satisfied with the comparatively small error bars involved with calorie counting.6 -
ENFP and I still get really into my data. I constantly weigh my Fitbit data against my own and am very precise with my weighing but I don't stress the gains cause I have enough data collected to see my trends. Weird fro an ENFP I know, but when we're into something we're really into something lol2
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I'm very much Type A and also an ISTJ. My laid-back boyfriend is the one who suggested I use MFP and MMF, and a few weeks after I started logging, he said he had created a monster. I log daily and try to be as accurate as possible. I have not missed a day since I joined. I enjoy using a food scale, too. I like to join the workout challenges in MMF, and the You Vs. The Year running challenge has really pushed me in a good way. I like to analyze the data from my runs. I love to look at the details and track what I'm doing, but I also know that none of it is 100% accurate. Maybe it is weird to some, but I get satisfaction out of tracking. With all that in mind, I will not let it get in the way of enjoying food/fitness/life in general.2
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INTJ aerospace engineer, but I understand that every measurement has a tolerance. I try to be accurate in my own measurements in an attempt to minimize variables, but I don't worry about it too much because the numbers have an imprecise basis themselves. As long as the end result is as expected, I'm happy.4
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I'm pretty much a data freak ... give me some numbers and I'll work up a spreadsheet instead of watching TV, reading, interacting with other people, cooking, cleaning, sleeping ... if it comes to all that before I have my fill of numbers or pass out from mental exhaustion! Well ... maybe I'm not quite as bad as all that.
I do, however, spend a lot of my time logging my food entries to be as exact as I can possibly make them, and I even track how long I fast from the last meal of day 1 to the first meal of day 2, how many cups of water I drank, etc. ad nauseum. Plus, because I cannot run the statistics I want from the data in MFP, I end up posting to my spreadsheet every day as well. Once I week I run the averages of all my numbers. Ditto for monthly, quarterly, and Year To Date. ... Got started doing this because I'm old, and flabby, and very imobile so I didn't 'trust' any of the online calculators for what would be the optimum input for me.
And guess what ... at the end of 2016, my calculations showed that my TDEE was 1935 calories a day. When I input my info into MFP for goal setting and selected 'maintain my weight' it told me 1970 calories a day would do that ... now, whad-da-ya-no-bout-dat! I'm much more relaxed about it all now and just let MFP do the calculations and I do the input of what I ate. It all averages out in the end.
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I have a belt and I fasten that belt at a specific hole. If it starts to get to the point the belt is close to not fitting that hole. I eat less/move more.1
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I love data and I love accuracy. It (slightly)annoys me when I know I can't be as accurate as I want to- such as if I ate dinner I didn't prepare.
That being said, even with the mysterious side of calorie counting that makes it not 100% accurate, it's still more accurate than if I just guessed what I needed to eat to lose weight/maintain/gain.
You just have to remember that yes, it is not 100%, but it's damn closer than pretty much any thing else you can do.2 -
As an engineer I love to have the facts, logic and data however the body is not a perfect system and life is way too short to fret about calculating exacts (because you can't).
Being consistent and tracking your intake is as close as you can get without sitting in a lab 24/7.4 -
Love everyone's response. My first go around to weight loss, I dropped about 100lbs. All without tracking a single number or weighing foods. I just love my data and I do understand that it's more about consistency and averages. I think the problem is the onslaught of all the gadgets that are readily available now, since it's spitting out a number, it's hard for me to not get buried in analyzing my goal plan. I do appreciate ya'lls input, I was more curious if anyone else was bothered by the margin of error. Regardless, I think it's a great tool as opposed to not having one at all. Thanks again!3
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This is the first time I've ever had to lose weight where I had to think about it. I was always in high active occupations where my physical performance is mission critical. I've had a Polar HRM since 1996 and this is nearly as accurate as medical grade monitoring equipment. I have access to all manner of metabolics testing in our lab and the surprising thing is that my class A lab gear provides the same statistically significant results as the MFP output - within +/- three sigma values.2
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I don't stress over it and quit logging a year ago because I felt I had a good grasp of how to eat from a calorie point of view. When I was logging I got pretty good at looking at a plate of food and logging it as "that looks like about 1200 calories". I always went high on the estimates and when searching the database never took the low ones. I only got good at this method after lots of research and looking up or using barcodes so it wasn't like I didn't practice at it. I did it this way because its not always possible to weigh all food. My trackers and apps were strictly to allow extra room for my favorite food group, booze! They are also very convenient, my scale, FitBit, Runtastic all sync to MFP. As a numbers guy you would love the Aria scale from FitBit. It logs weight & body fat % and syncs to the FitBit app. You can then pull up a graph of a week, month or year(s) to reveal trends and the best part is all you need to do is step on and off the scale. It also will break you of the habit of weighing multiple times a day.
Edit: I wouldn't change setting all that much. I like to try something and see what happens over several weeks to see if it is working. Usually working means a loss or reduction in body fat.0 -
I was more curious if anyone else was bothered by the margin of error.
for myself, not so much but that's probably because i'm too arsey to spend the time weighing things like carrots on my own personal scale. so i already don't 'really' know what i'm eating and that makes the idea of 'accuracy' at the other end of the equation ridiculous.
what does irritate me is these prepackaged indian entrees i use, that give a calorie count in volume but then only have units of weight for the entree itself. like, i don't mind the fault tolerance in the calorie concept itself, but i hate mental clutter and a number that has no context or useful reference points is just meaningless.1 -
You all know that Myers-Briggs was devised by two very untrained mother-daughter housewives who had a lot of interest in Carl Jung, and is about as scientific as tarot cards, right?
It's not held in any regard as scientifically valid personality testing. Any awe at how accurate and insightful it is comes down to the Forer Effect and not that the test actually works.2 -
I'm a geek about numbers, but view the calories (and to some extent the macros) as less hard and fast TRUTH than fields of probability. If six ounces of beef is supposed to be 300 calories, I'm going to figure it as such and presume the regression to the mean will normalize it over the long term.0
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I thought ISTJs were supposed to be logically & practically-orientated? (If these personality descriptions have any usefulness at all).
This kind of difficulty with handling imprecision and focusing on a level of detail that cannot be accounted for is a very irrational and impractical approach, especially if you don't want to be driven bonkers. The world is messy and imprecise: you need a practical and logical approach for that. Cut out 99% of that timewasting detail, do the same basic things, and spend that inclination to obsess over detail and numbers learning finance or something that adds actual value to your life. Win win!0
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