Can you gain mucle on a low carb high fat moderate protien diet?
lady_ghost
Posts: 175 Member
I'm trying to tone up and gain some muscle would I need to increase my protien and lower my fat. I strength train three times a week and do cardio 1-2 times a week. I find I'm loosing stubborn fat and weight but I'm also loosing muscle. My carbs at 110grams fats are 88grams and protien 130grams usually. I'm 5'8 155 pounds.
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Replies
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If you're in a calorie surplus, yes3
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What makes you think you are losing muscle?
How are you measuring that?3 -
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If you eat 1 gram protein per pound of body weight daily and deliberately do a weight lifting program while maintaining a calorie deficit of -500 per day, or only enough to lose 1 pound per week, maybe. If you're a newbie at lifting, probably yes.
An important thing to remember is that your lifting program must be a progressive heavy lifting program. There are many ways of doing it. Do it consistently.
Also important is to not let your cardio burns make your daily calorie deficit more deficient than -500. Eat exercise calories, if necessary.
I'll also point out that filbo132 is describing adding muscle while NOT attempting to lose weight, and I am describing adding muscle while attempting to lose weight. The two different objectives have two different calorie targets.2 -
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Just so we are all clear.. what are your goals.. are you trying to lean out and lose weight (where you can retain muscle but to actually build it will be difficult)? Keep in mind best way to retain muscle is to keep protein up, keep deficit reasonable and get on a progressive lifting program.
Or are you looking to recomp/maintain (losing fat and gaining muscle over time) ? I would say those are your best options right now, but obviously it will depend what you want to do ie. if you are happy with your current weight and want to work on composition.1 -
So just ballparking the numbers you provided, your TDEE is around 2400 or so, and your intake is around 1700- 1800 calories. So you're probably in a calorie deficit. That means that your body is going to need all of the calories you're eating, plus some from stored fat, just to meet the energy needs to keep you alive and healthy, and repair and maybe build up and strengthen muscle tissue where you're slightly damaging it from your lifting. Your body can convert protein to carbs and carbs to protein but its more efficient if it doesn't have to. However, you can't tell you body that you want this food to be used for building muscle and that food to be used for keeping you alive, and there are choices being made inside you whether to repair your muscles or use that dietary protein for energy. So basically, as long as you're eating in a deficit, a little more protein gives you slightly better chance of having that protein used for muscle building or maintenance, while using stored fat for energy. But its not a guarantee.
Sounds to me like you're doing really great. I don't know why you say you're losing muscle, but if you're even maintaining it or gaining an little amount while losing fat, you're a total winner!0 -
I think you need to learn how this whole process works. If you are trying to lose weight...then it will be very difficult to gain muscles (not impossible). Your best bet will be to preserve your muscles by having a high protein diet and being on a small deficit, however you will lose some muscles. Lifting simply ensures you don't lose too much. In order to build muscles in general, you need to gain weight (a small surplus ideally...too much of a surplus will make you fat). What sucks about building muscles is that you will gain fat along the way which is why I recommend a small surplus (0,25-0.5 pounds gain per week for women) and nothing too crazy.
You can read this https://muscleforlife.com/bulking-up/
Thanks for posting this. I am trying to go on my first "bulk" but not overdo it. I want to ease into it with about a 10% or so surplus. This link led me to several great articles that gave me a lot to consider and add to the tool box of how to go about it. Appreciate3 the good info.0 -
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blackcomaro wrote: »
@blackcomaro
My hunch is on an inaccurate measuring method like BIA scales.
Decent calorie and protein levels + strength training so unlikely to be losing any significant muscle.
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Yes - See Jason Wittrock as a high profile example.
ETA: He actually eats at keto carb levels, though... 110g is just barely low carb.2 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »Yes - See Jason Wittrock as a high profile example.
ETA: He actually eats at keto carb levels, though... 110g is just barely low carb.
I am pretty sure Jason Wittrock didn't get where he is now by eating Keto... but rather switched. Because for the longest time he was following the typical bodybuilding templates, which is how you get fit. And with all bodybuilders, you have to consider if there was even supplementation.5 -
Sure, why not?
Just suboptimal.2 -
Increase carbs to 150g complex carbs (brown rice etc) (helps build muscle) also bananas, protein should be at least 155 g per day. Do compound exercises...deadlift, squat & bench, Go heavier on the squats 5 sets of 5 reps and increase the weight you are lifting each week. The increased weight you are able to lift is the only way to be sure you are building muscle. If you are not getting stronger you are not building muscle. Hope this helps
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Increase carbs to 150g complex carbs (brown rice etc) (helps build muscle) also bananas, protein should be at least 155 g per day. Do compound exercises...deadlift, squat & bench, Go heavier on the squats 5 sets of 5 reps and increase the weight you are lifting each week. The increased weight you are able to lift is the only way to be sure you are building muscle. If you are not getting stronger you are not building muscle. Hope this helps
that is wrong..
you can get stronger and not be building any muscle..
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Increase carbs to 150g complex carbs (brown rice etc) (helps build muscle) also bananas, protein should be at least 155 g per day. Do compound exercises...deadlift, squat & bench, Go heavier on the squats 5 sets of 5 reps and increase the weight you are lifting each week. The increased weight you are able to lift is the only way to be sure you are building muscle. If you are not getting stronger you are not building muscle. Hope this helps
that is wrong..
you can get stronger and not be building any muscle..
You are actually saying something a bit different. Yes, there are neurological adaptations in your CNS, but it's true, you can't gain muscle if you aren't getting stronger. No one gains muscle while getting weaker or maintaining the same amount of strength. I think it was just worded in a weird fashion2 -
Increase carbs to 150g complex carbs (brown rice etc) (helps build muscle) also bananas, protein should be at least 155 g per day. Do compound exercises...deadlift, squat & bench, Go heavier on the squats 5 sets of 5 reps and increase the weight you are lifting each week. The increased weight you are able to lift is the only way to be sure you are building muscle. If you are not getting stronger you are not building muscle. Hope this helps
that is wrong..
you can get stronger and not be building any muscle..
You are actually saying something a bit different. Yes, there are neurological adaptations in your CNS, but it's true, you can't gain muscle if you aren't getting stronger. No one gains muscle while getting weaker or maintaining the same amount of strength. I think it was just worded in a weird fashion
that could be...
I read it as "if you are getting stronger you are building muscle..." but maybe that poster meant in the context of a surplus...0 -
You are better off doing low-moderate carb, high protein, low fat and lift heavy 4-6 reps. Try to work each muscle 3 times per week (compound exercises) This way you will build muscle and lose fat (carbs are needed to build muscle, all carbs should be complex carbs)0
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You are better off doing low-moderate carb, high protein, low fat and lift heavy 4-6 reps. Try to work each muscle 3 times per week (compound exercises) This way you will build muscle and lose fat (carbs are needed to build muscle, all carbs should be complex carbs)
All carbs break down to glucose. And considering many fruits are simple carbs, there ia nothing really wrong. As long as you are getting adequate nutrients, it should matter if onw labels stuff as simple or complex. And considering we rarely eat in isolation, i wouldnt even make such a distinction.5 -
lady_ghost wrote: »I'm trying to tone up and gain some muscle would I need to increase my protien and lower my fat. I strength train three times a week and do cardio 1-2 times a week. I find I'm loosing stubborn fat and weight but I'm also loosing muscle. My carbs at 110grams fats are 88grams and protien 130grams usually. I'm 5'8 155 pounds.
My suggestion for cardio is to do cardio with resistance eg stepper or cross trainer I found running eats up too much muscle. I eat high protein low carb high good fats & still able to build1 -
lady_ghost wrote: »I'm trying to tone up and gain some muscle would I need to increase my protien and lower my fat. I strength train three times a week and do cardio 1-2 times a week. I find I'm loosing stubborn fat and weight but I'm also loosing muscle. My carbs at 110grams fats are 88grams and protien 130grams usually. I'm 5'8 155 pounds.
My suggestion for cardio is to do cardio with resistance eg stepper or cross trainer I found running eats up too much muscle. I eat high protein low carb high good fats & still able to build
Running doesn't burn muscle. You lose muscle from inadequate protein and lack of resistance training.5 -
Increase carbs to 150g complex carbs (brown rice etc) (helps build muscle) also bananas, protein should be at least 155 g per day. Do compound exercises...deadlift, squat & bench, Go heavier on the squats 5 sets of 5 reps and increase the weight you are lifting each week. The increased weight you are able to lift is the only way to be sure you are building muscle. If you are not getting stronger you are not building muscle. Hope this helps
that is wrong..
you can get stronger and not be building any muscle..
You are actually saying something a bit different. Yes, there are neurological adaptations in your CNS, but it's true, you can't gain muscle if you aren't getting stronger. No one gains muscle while getting weaker or maintaining the same amount of strength. I think it was just worded in a weird fashion
So you are saying by increasing volume by way of reps rather than load you cant build muscle?
seems wrong... 0 -
jaimeolive wrote: »Increase carbs to 150g complex carbs (brown rice etc) (helps build muscle) also bananas, protein should be at least 155 g per day. Do compound exercises...deadlift, squat & bench, Go heavier on the squats 5 sets of 5 reps and increase the weight you are lifting each week. The increased weight you are able to lift is the only way to be sure you are building muscle. If you are not getting stronger you are not building muscle. Hope this helps
that is wrong..
you can get stronger and not be building any muscle..
You are actually saying something a bit different. Yes, there are neurological adaptations in your CNS, but it's true, you can't gain muscle if you aren't getting stronger. No one gains muscle while getting weaker or maintaining the same amount of strength. I think it was just worded in a weird fashion
So you are saying by increasing volume by way of reps rather than load you cant build muscle? seems wrong...
If you increase reps, you're still getting stronger. 10 reps x 40 pounds = 400 pounds lifted; 12 reps x 40 pounds = 480 pounds lifted. You lifted 80 more pounds in the second scenario.0 -
jaimeolive wrote: »Increase carbs to 150g complex carbs (brown rice etc) (helps build muscle) also bananas, protein should be at least 155 g per day. Do compound exercises...deadlift, squat & bench, Go heavier on the squats 5 sets of 5 reps and increase the weight you are lifting each week. The increased weight you are able to lift is the only way to be sure you are building muscle. If you are not getting stronger you are not building muscle. Hope this helps
that is wrong..
you can get stronger and not be building any muscle..
You are actually saying something a bit different. Yes, there are neurological adaptations in your CNS, but it's true, you can't gain muscle if you aren't getting stronger. No one gains muscle while getting weaker or maintaining the same amount of strength. I think it was just worded in a weird fashion
So you are saying by increasing volume by way of reps rather than load you cant build muscle? seems wrong...
If you increase reps, you're still getting stronger. 10 reps x 40 pounds = 400 pounds lifted; 12 reps x 40 pounds = 480 pounds lifted. You lifted 80 more pounds in the second scenario.
But you are still lifting 40 pounds
I understand volume as a female who can squat over 250 (I didn't get there by accident) - I just think the statement "you cant gain muscle if you aren't getting stronger" isn't necessarily correct and is very vague *insert thumbs up emoji because it didn't work on computer* 0 -
jaimeolive wrote: »jaimeolive wrote: »Increase carbs to 150g complex carbs (brown rice etc) (helps build muscle) also bananas, protein should be at least 155 g per day. Do compound exercises...deadlift, squat & bench, Go heavier on the squats 5 sets of 5 reps and increase the weight you are lifting each week. The increased weight you are able to lift is the only way to be sure you are building muscle. If you are not getting stronger you are not building muscle. Hope this helps
that is wrong..
you can get stronger and not be building any muscle..
You are actually saying something a bit different. Yes, there are neurological adaptations in your CNS, but it's true, you can't gain muscle if you aren't getting stronger. No one gains muscle while getting weaker or maintaining the same amount of strength. I think it was just worded in a weird fashion
So you are saying by increasing volume by way of reps rather than load you cant build muscle? seems wrong...
If you increase reps, you're still getting stronger. 10 reps x 40 pounds = 400 pounds lifted; 12 reps x 40 pounds = 480 pounds lifted. You lifted 80 more pounds in the second scenario.
But you are still lifting 40 pounds I understand volume as a female who can squat over 250 (I didn't get there by accident) - I just think the statement "you cant gain muscle if you aren't getting stronger" isn't necessarily correct and is very vague *insert thumbs up emoji because it didn't work on computer*
Take your 250+ pound squat (assuming it's your 1RM) and bust out 10 reps with it. You're still lifting the same 250 pounds, but 10 reps will be a lot more difficult than 1 rep.
There are various methods of progression. You can increase volume, you can increase intensity, or you can increase frequency. All of them equate to more demand being placed upon the body.
If you're squatting 3x10 @250 twice a week right now and you're still squatting 3x10 @ 250 twice a week two months from now, you aren't going to make any significant gains because you haven't imposed any new demands upon the body that it has to compensate for. In two months from now if you're squatting 3x15@250 or 3x10@275 twice a week, or you're squatting 3x10@250 four times a week, you've progressed. In the first case you've increased volume, in the second case you've increased intensity and in the third case you've increased frequency. In every one of those cases, you've imposed new demands upon your muscles and central nervous system, which will create adaptation.
If somebody starts off doing bench press 3x6 with an empty Olympic bar (45 pounds) and they're still benching 3x6 with the empty bar six months later, they've made no progress. They're not going to build muscle if they simply continue benching that same weight at the same volume/frequency, nor are they going to get any stronger. They're not providing any new stimulus to require the body to adapt to.
While there are differences in the mechanisms which drive strength and hypertrophy, the fact remains that progression is necessary for muscles to grow.0 -
jaimeolive wrote: »jaimeolive wrote: »Increase carbs to 150g complex carbs (brown rice etc) (helps build muscle) also bananas, protein should be at least 155 g per day. Do compound exercises...deadlift, squat & bench, Go heavier on the squats 5 sets of 5 reps and increase the weight you are lifting each week. The increased weight you are able to lift is the only way to be sure you are building muscle. If you are not getting stronger you are not building muscle. Hope this helps
that is wrong..
you can get stronger and not be building any muscle..
You are actually saying something a bit different. Yes, there are neurological adaptations in your CNS, but it's true, you can't gain muscle if you aren't getting stronger. No one gains muscle while getting weaker or maintaining the same amount of strength. I think it was just worded in a weird fashion
So you are saying by increasing volume by way of reps rather than load you cant build muscle? seems wrong...
If you increase reps, you're still getting stronger. 10 reps x 40 pounds = 400 pounds lifted; 12 reps x 40 pounds = 480 pounds lifted. You lifted 80 more pounds in the second scenario.
But you are still lifting 40 pounds I understand volume as a female who can squat over 250 (I didn't get there by accident) - I just think the statement "you cant gain muscle if you aren't getting stronger" isn't necessarily correct and is very vague *insert thumbs up emoji because it didn't work on computer*
Take your 250+ pound squat (assuming it's your 1RM) and bust out 10 reps with it. You're still lifting the same 250 pounds, but 10 reps will be a lot more difficult than 1 rep.
There are various methods of progression. You can increase volume, you can increase intensity, or you can increase frequency. All of them equate to more demand being placed upon the body.
If you're squatting 3x10 @250 twice a week right now and you're still squatting 3x10 @ 250 twice a week two months from now, you aren't going to make any significant gains because you haven't imposed any new demands upon the body that it has to compensate for. In two months from now if you're squatting 3x15@250 or 3x10@275 twice a week, or you're squatting 3x10@250 four times a week, you've progressed. In the first case you've increased volume, in the second case you've increased intensity and in the third case you've increased frequency. In every one of those cases, you've imposed new demands upon your muscles and central nervous system, which will create adaptation.
If somebody starts off doing bench press 3x6 with an empty Olympic bar (45 pounds) and they're still benching 3x6 with the empty bar six months later, they've made no progress. They're not going to build muscle if they simply continue benching that same weight at the same volume/frequency, nor are they going to get any stronger. They're not providing any new stimulus to require the body to adapt to.
While there are differences in the mechanisms which drive strength and hypertrophy, the fact remains that progression is necessary for muscles to grow.
The bolded part was a joke. I am not arguing with the above - simply what I am saying is size does not always equate to strength and I am more talking about people who do not train close to their 1rm like I, and I am assuming you do, or follow a plan with the goal to increase that 1RM because there are definitely people out there (most females at my gym) who aren't interested in increasing loads but still gain muscle, similar to the whole BBG movement.0 -
jaimeolive wrote: »jaimeolive wrote: »jaimeolive wrote: »Increase carbs to 150g complex carbs (brown rice etc) (helps build muscle) also bananas, protein should be at least 155 g per day. Do compound exercises...deadlift, squat & bench, Go heavier on the squats 5 sets of 5 reps and increase the weight you are lifting each week. The increased weight you are able to lift is the only way to be sure you are building muscle. If you are not getting stronger you are not building muscle. Hope this helps
that is wrong..
you can get stronger and not be building any muscle..
You are actually saying something a bit different. Yes, there are neurological adaptations in your CNS, but it's true, you can't gain muscle if you aren't getting stronger. No one gains muscle while getting weaker or maintaining the same amount of strength. I think it was just worded in a weird fashion
So you are saying by increasing volume by way of reps rather than load you cant build muscle? seems wrong...
If you increase reps, you're still getting stronger. 10 reps x 40 pounds = 400 pounds lifted; 12 reps x 40 pounds = 480 pounds lifted. You lifted 80 more pounds in the second scenario.
But you are still lifting 40 pounds I understand volume as a female who can squat over 250 (I didn't get there by accident) - I just think the statement "you cant gain muscle if you aren't getting stronger" isn't necessarily correct and is very vague *insert thumbs up emoji because it didn't work on computer*
Take your 250+ pound squat (assuming it's your 1RM) and bust out 10 reps with it. You're still lifting the same 250 pounds, but 10 reps will be a lot more difficult than 1 rep.
There are various methods of progression. You can increase volume, you can increase intensity, or you can increase frequency. All of them equate to more demand being placed upon the body.
If you're squatting 3x10 @250 twice a week right now and you're still squatting 3x10 @ 250 twice a week two months from now, you aren't going to make any significant gains because you haven't imposed any new demands upon the body that it has to compensate for. In two months from now if you're squatting 3x15@250 or 3x10@275 twice a week, or you're squatting 3x10@250 four times a week, you've progressed. In the first case you've increased volume, in the second case you've increased intensity and in the third case you've increased frequency. In every one of those cases, you've imposed new demands upon your muscles and central nervous system, which will create adaptation.
If somebody starts off doing bench press 3x6 with an empty Olympic bar (45 pounds) and they're still benching 3x6 with the empty bar six months later, they've made no progress. They're not going to build muscle if they simply continue benching that same weight at the same volume/frequency, nor are they going to get any stronger. They're not providing any new stimulus to require the body to adapt to.
While there are differences in the mechanisms which drive strength and hypertrophy, the fact remains that progression is necessary for muscles to grow.
The bolded part was a joke. I am not arguing with the above - simply what I am saying is size does not always equate to strength and I am more talking about people who do not train close to their 1rm like I, and I am assuming you do, or follow a plan with the goal to increase that 1RM because there are definitely people out there (most females at my gym) who aren't interested in increasing loads but still gain muscle, similar to the whole BBG movement.
There are a lot of people out there they think they are gaining muscle because of CNS adaptations and/or they are dropping body fat to make their muscles more apparently; in some aspects, if they are absolutely new to training, they may gain a lb or two, but nothing much and that doesn't assume they also go right to a large deficit. There are also a lot people out their who think you can change the shape of your muscle.... doesn't make it true.
Volume, which is not just reps, it's (reps * sets * weight). One or more of those variables will have to change. And there are other areas such as intensity and time under tension, but volume being the largest driver. You might find the below video helpful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_z0vLxQHmo 0
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