Bcaa???!!!
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Replies
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I have a problem ingesting protein in large quantities so I can't take regular protein powders. I take BCAAs to help. I found a world of difference in my endurance after taking it. I use it pre, during, and post but I dilute it greatly. (I'm not bodybuilding, but I practice martial arts daily so my goals/reasons might be different than yours.)0
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BCAA are useless if you have a high protein diet. The only time BCAA have any use is if you are training fasted and you don't eat food for many hours after that. If you are not doing IF and not training fasted, then there's no point in taking them.
Pretty much this. If I'm doing a first-thing-in-the-morning workout I'll use them (BCAA 2:1:1, L-Glutamine, and 200-400mg caffeine) and get to it.0 -
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I get the fizzy NOCCO BCAA drinks form the No Carbs Company but only really have them as an energy boost when I go to do fasted cardio in the mornings. I only drink coffee at work so don't keep any at home but the NOCCO drinks have added caffeine and I find that they help me get going in the mornings. Super expensive for what it is really but I like their flavours and can't get pre-workout down. Plus they contain vitamins including vitamin D and I have a deficiency so... Peach is my favourite, Pear is great too and I also really like the Tropical one.0
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TannedTiger wrote: »all broke-*kitten* will say it's a waste of money.
Yea.. because it's not tlike there is science or anything to back that recommendation....
oh wait:Alan Aragon wrote: »
Hey everyone, a frequently recurring topic is BCAA supplementation. A lot of folks are simply unaware of the actual data, so they needlessly waste their hard-earned cash on BCAA supps. This might not be music to the ears of folks locked in a routine of taking their favorite supp, but my hope is that it gives some of you food for thought, and ultimately helps you zap an unnecessary (and potentially detrimental) item from your supplement shopping list.
The high-quality proteins in our diets are comprised of appx 18-26% BCAA as it is. Supplementing with extra BCAA on top of that can range from adding extra unnecessary calories (and metabolic burden), to actually inhibiting optimal use of ingested amino acids [1].
Let me also add that whey protein has a stronger anabolic/anticatabolic effect than its equivalent in supplemental EAA or BCAA [2]. It's no surprise that supplemental BCAA has an equivocal track record in the research [3,4]. For those concerned about "going catabolic" doing fasted cardio without AA supplementation, my colleagues and I found no difference in body comp effects between fed vs fasted cardio when total protein is sufficient (both groups retained their LBM) [5]. As for the ability of BCAA to inhibit muscle soreness, note that this is always compared to a non-protein placebo.
It's LOL to supp with BCAA to begin with (instead of an intact, high-quality protein such as whey, which provides the rest of the EAAs as well as other co-factors for anabolism -- but it's all moot if you're getting enough total daily protein anyway). Here’s a salient quote from a recent review [6]:
"Thus, as we speculated, consumption of crystalline BCAA resulted in competitive antagonism for uptake from the gut and into the muscle and was actually not as effective as leucine alone in stimulating MPS. Despite the popularity of BCAA supplements we find shockingly little evidence for their efficacy in promoting MPS or lean mass gains and would advise the use of intact proteins as opposed to a purified combination of BCAA that appear to antagonize each other in terms of transport both into circulation and likely in to the muscle.”
The only people who are not wasting time & money on supplemental BCAA are those who must maintain a low-protein diet, or a diet with restricted amounts of high-quality protein. With that all said, if your total daily protein is optimized, and you don't mind consuming the functional equivalent of really expensive flavored water, then be my guest.
1) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27175106
2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22451437
3) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20110810
4) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15930475
5) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25429252/
6) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26388782/3 -
I consume adequate protein and often time a protein shake + carbs pre workout (since my lunch is 5 hours before hand) and consume dinner after. So BCAA's = worthless.0
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I am now 30 quid lighter in the wallet department. I tried it and found it useless. Common sense should have told me that a high protein diet was fine and really all i was doing was adding a shocking amount of chemical artificial sweeteners to my otherwise clean diet lol. I lift heavy and have grown to accept DOMS as part of life, not that BCAA powder made any difference. Have a steak and get some magnesium spray for leg day relief
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TannedTiger wrote: »all broke-*kitten* will say it's a waste of money.
Yea.. because it's not tlike there is science or anything to back that recommendation....
oh wait:Alan Aragon wrote: »
Hey everyone, a frequently recurring topic is BCAA supplementation. A lot of folks are simply unaware of the actual data, so they needlessly waste their hard-earned cash on BCAA supps. This might not be music to the ears of folks locked in a routine of taking their favorite supp, but my hope is that it gives some of you food for thought, and ultimately helps you zap an unnecessary (and potentially detrimental) item from your supplement shopping list.
The high-quality proteins in our diets are comprised of appx 18-26% BCAA as it is. Supplementing with extra BCAA on top of that can range from adding extra unnecessary calories (and metabolic burden), to actually inhibiting optimal use of ingested amino acids [1].
Let me also add that whey protein has a stronger anabolic/anticatabolic effect than its equivalent in supplemental EAA or BCAA [2]. It's no surprise that supplemental BCAA has an equivocal track record in the research [3,4]. For those concerned about "going catabolic" doing fasted cardio without AA supplementation, my colleagues and I found no difference in body comp effects between fed vs fasted cardio when total protein is sufficient (both groups retained their LBM) [5]. As for the ability of BCAA to inhibit muscle soreness, note that this is always compared to a non-protein placebo.
It's LOL to supp with BCAA to begin with (instead of an intact, high-quality protein such as whey, which provides the rest of the EAAs as well as other co-factors for anabolism -- but it's all moot if you're getting enough total daily protein anyway). Here’s a salient quote from a recent review [6]:
"Thus, as we speculated, consumption of crystalline BCAA resulted in competitive antagonism for uptake from the gut and into the muscle and was actually not as effective as leucine alone in stimulating MPS. Despite the popularity of BCAA supplements we find shockingly little evidence for their efficacy in promoting MPS or lean mass gains and would advise the use of intact proteins as opposed to a purified combination of BCAA that appear to antagonize each other in terms of transport both into circulation and likely in to the muscle.”
The only people who are not wasting time & money on supplemental BCAA are those who must maintain a low-protein diet, or a diet with restricted amounts of high-quality protein. With that all said, if your total daily protein is optimized, and you don't mind consuming the functional equivalent of really expensive flavored water, then be my guest.
1) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27175106
2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22451437
3) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20110810
4) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15930475
5) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25429252/
6) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26388782/
Everyone is entitled their opinions but too say they are a waste of money is ludicrous... Why don't you worry about yourself and try to cite your own sources? Did you even read these studies? Most are about L-luceine only or specific times the study concentrated on like caloric restrictions or when consuming ample protein & protein drinks. I don't use a BCAA drink but do take L - Glutamine after every workout but would take them and would never tell someone they were wasting their time or money for trying to better & give themselves a boost or edge.
There are studies that support the effects of BCAA's & other amino acids - especially L-Glutamine - on muscle recuperation and growth but I'll let you research that yourself since you are the expert... Wouldn't want you too just re post them. What are the requirement to be a MFP Moderator anyways?
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ItsAllMental819 wrote: »TannedTiger wrote: »all broke-*kitten* will say it's a waste of money.
Yea.. because it's not tlike there is science or anything to back that recommendation....
oh wait:Alan Aragon wrote: »
Hey everyone, a frequently recurring topic is BCAA supplementation. A lot of folks are simply unaware of the actual data, so they needlessly waste their hard-earned cash on BCAA supps. This might not be music to the ears of folks locked in a routine of taking their favorite supp, but my hope is that it gives some of you food for thought, and ultimately helps you zap an unnecessary (and potentially detrimental) item from your supplement shopping list.
The high-quality proteins in our diets are comprised of appx 18-26% BCAA as it is. Supplementing with extra BCAA on top of that can range from adding extra unnecessary calories (and metabolic burden), to actually inhibiting optimal use of ingested amino acids [1].
Let me also add that whey protein has a stronger anabolic/anticatabolic effect than its equivalent in supplemental EAA or BCAA [2]. It's no surprise that supplemental BCAA has an equivocal track record in the research [3,4]. For those concerned about "going catabolic" doing fasted cardio without AA supplementation, my colleagues and I found no difference in body comp effects between fed vs fasted cardio when total protein is sufficient (both groups retained their LBM) [5]. As for the ability of BCAA to inhibit muscle soreness, note that this is always compared to a non-protein placebo.
It's LOL to supp with BCAA to begin with (instead of an intact, high-quality protein such as whey, which provides the rest of the EAAs as well as other co-factors for anabolism -- but it's all moot if you're getting enough total daily protein anyway). Here’s a salient quote from a recent review [6]:
"Thus, as we speculated, consumption of crystalline BCAA resulted in competitive antagonism for uptake from the gut and into the muscle and was actually not as effective as leucine alone in stimulating MPS. Despite the popularity of BCAA supplements we find shockingly little evidence for their efficacy in promoting MPS or lean mass gains and would advise the use of intact proteins as opposed to a purified combination of BCAA that appear to antagonize each other in terms of transport both into circulation and likely in to the muscle.”
The only people who are not wasting time & money on supplemental BCAA are those who must maintain a low-protein diet, or a diet with restricted amounts of high-quality protein. With that all said, if your total daily protein is optimized, and you don't mind consuming the functional equivalent of really expensive flavored water, then be my guest.
1) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27175106
2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22451437
3) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20110810
4) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15930475
5) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25429252/
6) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26388782/
Everyone is entitled their opinions but too say they are a waste of money is ludicrous... Why don't you worry about yourself and try to cite your own sources? Did you even read these studies? Most are about L-luceine only or specific times the study concentrated on like caloric restrictions or when consuming ample protein & protein drinks. I don't use a BCAA drink but do take L - Glutamine after every workout but would take them and would never tell someone they were wasting their time or money for trying to better & give themselves a boost or edge.
There are studies that support the effects of BCAA's & other amino acids - especially L-Glutamine - on muscle recuperation and growth but I'll let you research that yourself since you are the expert... Wouldn't want you too just re post them. What are the requirement to be a MFP Moderator anyways?
As the saying goes, everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but they're not entitled to their own facts. Broscience is not the same as science.
If you'd like to see plenty of peer-reviewed research on BCAAs (which further state that they're essentially useless in the vast majority of cases if you already have adequate protein intake), there are a ton of studies summarized (and linked in their entirety) here: https://examine.com/supplements/branched-chain-amino-acids/0 -
Even though the first thing I noticed when scrolling to the sources cited was this site was selling a book and wanted my info - I took the time to look it over.
On the title page:
Supplementation is not necessary, but BCAAs may benefit the body if taken at specific times.
So if you know when to take them... like during a workout or immediately after as they mention and many of there studies looked at.
First source I clicked:
RESULTS:
The leucine group demonstrated significantly higher gains in total 5-RM strength (sum of 5-RM in eight exercises) and 5-RM strength in five out of the eight exercises (P < .05). The percentage total 5-RM strength gains were 40.8% (± 7.8) and 31.0% (± 4.6) for the leucine and placebo groups respectively. Significant differences did not exist between groups in either total percentage LTM gains or total percentage FM losses (LTM: 2.9% ± 2.5 vs 2.0% ± 2.1, FM: 1.6% ± 15.6 vs 1.1% ± 7.6).
CONCLUSION:
These results suggest that 4 g/d of L-leucine supplementation may be used as a nutritional supplement to enhance strength performance during a 12-week resistance training program of initially untrained male participants.
PMID: 21487148
States it helps to enhance strength in untrained males... Hmmm
I guarantee many other studies on this site will say they are NOT worthless. Don't just read the summary or the title in bold... Over half of the studies I looked at were done on rats also!
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ItsAllMental819 wrote: »TannedTiger wrote: »all broke-*kitten* will say it's a waste of money.
Yea.. because it's not tlike there is science or anything to back that recommendation....
oh wait:Alan Aragon wrote: »
Hey everyone, a frequently recurring topic is BCAA supplementation. A lot of folks are simply unaware of the actual data, so they needlessly waste their hard-earned cash on BCAA supps. This might not be music to the ears of folks locked in a routine of taking their favorite supp, but my hope is that it gives some of you food for thought, and ultimately helps you zap an unnecessary (and potentially detrimental) item from your supplement shopping list.
The high-quality proteins in our diets are comprised of appx 18-26% BCAA as it is. Supplementing with extra BCAA on top of that can range from adding extra unnecessary calories (and metabolic burden), to actually inhibiting optimal use of ingested amino acids [1].
Let me also add that whey protein has a stronger anabolic/anticatabolic effect than its equivalent in supplemental EAA or BCAA [2]. It's no surprise that supplemental BCAA has an equivocal track record in the research [3,4]. For those concerned about "going catabolic" doing fasted cardio without AA supplementation, my colleagues and I found no difference in body comp effects between fed vs fasted cardio when total protein is sufficient (both groups retained their LBM) [5]. As for the ability of BCAA to inhibit muscle soreness, note that this is always compared to a non-protein placebo.
It's LOL to supp with BCAA to begin with (instead of an intact, high-quality protein such as whey, which provides the rest of the EAAs as well as other co-factors for anabolism -- but it's all moot if you're getting enough total daily protein anyway). Here’s a salient quote from a recent review [6]:
"Thus, as we speculated, consumption of crystalline BCAA resulted in competitive antagonism for uptake from the gut and into the muscle and was actually not as effective as leucine alone in stimulating MPS. Despite the popularity of BCAA supplements we find shockingly little evidence for their efficacy in promoting MPS or lean mass gains and would advise the use of intact proteins as opposed to a purified combination of BCAA that appear to antagonize each other in terms of transport both into circulation and likely in to the muscle.”
The only people who are not wasting time & money on supplemental BCAA are those who must maintain a low-protein diet, or a diet with restricted amounts of high-quality protein. With that all said, if your total daily protein is optimized, and you don't mind consuming the functional equivalent of really expensive flavored water, then be my guest.
1) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27175106
2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22451437
3) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20110810
4) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15930475
5) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25429252/
6) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26388782/
Everyone is entitled their opinions but too say they are a waste of money is ludicrous... Why don't you worry about yourself and try to cite your own sources? Did you even read these studies? Most are about L-luceine only or specific times the study concentrated on like caloric restrictions or when consuming ample protein & protein drinks. I don't use a BCAA drink but do take L - Glutamine after every workout but would take them and would never tell someone they were wasting their time or money for trying to better & give themselves a boost or edge.
There are studies that support the effects of BCAA's & other amino acids - especially L-Glutamine - on muscle recuperation and growth but I'll let you research that yourself since you are the expert... Wouldn't want you too just re post them. What are the requirement to be a MFP Moderator anyways?
I know this is basic knowledge but meta-analysis > single studies. You have to understand the parameters of the studies and see how they apply.
And I intentionally cited the source. Alan Aragon is one of the most knowledgeable and well respected person in the field of nutrition. Why would I take your approach and cherry pick one study or another to back my own thoughts when the research has already been done. And even if you don't know who Alan Aragon is, you can further look at more Meta-Analyses through examine.com which further support what Alan is stating.
But feel free to make a judgement if you want.
ETA: you should also put in the context that if you are consuming adequate protein and/or whey protein, you are getting more than enough Leucine and protein where BCAA's are going to provide you any additional benefit.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4865017/1 -
ItsAllMental819 wrote: »TannedTiger wrote: »all broke-*kitten* will say it's a waste of money.
Yea.. because it's not tlike there is science or anything to back that recommendation....
oh wait:Alan Aragon wrote: »
Hey everyone, a frequently recurring topic is BCAA supplementation. A lot of folks are simply unaware of the actual data, so they needlessly waste their hard-earned cash on BCAA supps. This might not be music to the ears of folks locked in a routine of taking their favorite supp, but my hope is that it gives some of you food for thought, and ultimately helps you zap an unnecessary (and potentially detrimental) item from your supplement shopping list.
The high-quality proteins in our diets are comprised of appx 18-26% BCAA as it is. Supplementing with extra BCAA on top of that can range from adding extra unnecessary calories (and metabolic burden), to actually inhibiting optimal use of ingested amino acids [1].
Let me also add that whey protein has a stronger anabolic/anticatabolic effect than its equivalent in supplemental EAA or BCAA [2]. It's no surprise that supplemental BCAA has an equivocal track record in the research [3,4]. For those concerned about "going catabolic" doing fasted cardio without AA supplementation, my colleagues and I found no difference in body comp effects between fed vs fasted cardio when total protein is sufficient (both groups retained their LBM) [5]. As for the ability of BCAA to inhibit muscle soreness, note that this is always compared to a non-protein placebo.
It's LOL to supp with BCAA to begin with (instead of an intact, high-quality protein such as whey, which provides the rest of the EAAs as well as other co-factors for anabolism -- but it's all moot if you're getting enough total daily protein anyway). Here’s a salient quote from a recent review [6]:
"Thus, as we speculated, consumption of crystalline BCAA resulted in competitive antagonism for uptake from the gut and into the muscle and was actually not as effective as leucine alone in stimulating MPS. Despite the popularity of BCAA supplements we find shockingly little evidence for their efficacy in promoting MPS or lean mass gains and would advise the use of intact proteins as opposed to a purified combination of BCAA that appear to antagonize each other in terms of transport both into circulation and likely in to the muscle.”
The only people who are not wasting time & money on supplemental BCAA are those who must maintain a low-protein diet, or a diet with restricted amounts of high-quality protein. With that all said, if your total daily protein is optimized, and you don't mind consuming the functional equivalent of really expensive flavored water, then be my guest.
1) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27175106
2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22451437
3) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20110810
4) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15930475
5) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25429252/
6) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26388782/
Everyone is entitled their opinions but too say they are a waste of money is ludicrous... Why don't you worry about yourself and try to cite your own sources? Did you even read these studies? Most are about L-luceine only or specific times the study concentrated on like caloric restrictions or when consuming ample protein & protein drinks. I don't use a BCAA drink but do take L - Glutamine after every workout but would take them and would never tell someone they were wasting their time or money for trying to better & give themselves a boost or edge.
There are studies that support the effects of BCAA's & other amino acids - especially L-Glutamine - on muscle recuperation and growth but I'll let you research that yourself since you are the expert... Wouldn't want you too just re post them. What are the requirement to be a MFP Moderator anyways?
I know this is basic knowledge but meta-analysis > single studies. You have to understand the parameters of the studies and see how they apply.
And I intentionally cited the source. Alan Aragon is one of the most knowledgeable and well respected person in the field of nutrition. Why would I take your approach and cherry pick one study or another to back my own thoughts when the research has already been done. And even if you don't know who Alan Aragon is, you can further look at more Meta-Analyses through examine.com which further support what Alan is stating.
But feel free to make a judgement if you want.
ETA: you should also put in the context that if you are consuming adequate protein and/or whey protein, you are getting more than enough Leucine and protein where BCAA's are going to provide you any additional benefit.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4865017/
I'm not arguing there are not studies that acknowledge what you are saying but there many that argue differently... I've read the source you cite about caloric restrictions and BCAAs - it's been posted and reposted 50x.
I'm saying you are the one judging people for using them! I could care less if you do or not or your opinion but since you shared it I shared mine.
As for me, I already stated I don't use them... only L Glutamine post workout - which I'm sure you feel is a waste of money
I consume 40 - 50% of my macros in protein or 250 to 300g daily from chicken, steak, & shakes.
Oh & I love pre workouts too.....
Have degrees in Exersice Physiology & Physical Therapy also.0 -
ItsAllMental819 wrote: »ItsAllMental819 wrote: »TannedTiger wrote: »all broke-*kitten* will say it's a waste of money.
Yea.. because it's not tlike there is science or anything to back that recommendation....
oh wait:Alan Aragon wrote: »
Hey everyone, a frequently recurring topic is BCAA supplementation. A lot of folks are simply unaware of the actual data, so they needlessly waste their hard-earned cash on BCAA supps. This might not be music to the ears of folks locked in a routine of taking their favorite supp, but my hope is that it gives some of you food for thought, and ultimately helps you zap an unnecessary (and potentially detrimental) item from your supplement shopping list.
The high-quality proteins in our diets are comprised of appx 18-26% BCAA as it is. Supplementing with extra BCAA on top of that can range from adding extra unnecessary calories (and metabolic burden), to actually inhibiting optimal use of ingested amino acids [1].
Let me also add that whey protein has a stronger anabolic/anticatabolic effect than its equivalent in supplemental EAA or BCAA [2]. It's no surprise that supplemental BCAA has an equivocal track record in the research [3,4]. For those concerned about "going catabolic" doing fasted cardio without AA supplementation, my colleagues and I found no difference in body comp effects between fed vs fasted cardio when total protein is sufficient (both groups retained their LBM) [5]. As for the ability of BCAA to inhibit muscle soreness, note that this is always compared to a non-protein placebo.
It's LOL to supp with BCAA to begin with (instead of an intact, high-quality protein such as whey, which provides the rest of the EAAs as well as other co-factors for anabolism -- but it's all moot if you're getting enough total daily protein anyway). Here’s a salient quote from a recent review [6]:
"Thus, as we speculated, consumption of crystalline BCAA resulted in competitive antagonism for uptake from the gut and into the muscle and was actually not as effective as leucine alone in stimulating MPS. Despite the popularity of BCAA supplements we find shockingly little evidence for their efficacy in promoting MPS or lean mass gains and would advise the use of intact proteins as opposed to a purified combination of BCAA that appear to antagonize each other in terms of transport both into circulation and likely in to the muscle.”
The only people who are not wasting time & money on supplemental BCAA are those who must maintain a low-protein diet, or a diet with restricted amounts of high-quality protein. With that all said, if your total daily protein is optimized, and you don't mind consuming the functional equivalent of really expensive flavored water, then be my guest.
1) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27175106
2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22451437
3) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20110810
4) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15930475
5) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25429252/
6) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26388782/
Everyone is entitled their opinions but too say they are a waste of money is ludicrous... Why don't you worry about yourself and try to cite your own sources? Did you even read these studies? Most are about L-luceine only or specific times the study concentrated on like caloric restrictions or when consuming ample protein & protein drinks. I don't use a BCAA drink but do take L - Glutamine after every workout but would take them and would never tell someone they were wasting their time or money for trying to better & give themselves a boost or edge.
There are studies that support the effects of BCAA's & other amino acids - especially L-Glutamine - on muscle recuperation and growth but I'll let you research that yourself since you are the expert... Wouldn't want you too just re post them. What are the requirement to be a MFP Moderator anyways?
I know this is basic knowledge but meta-analysis > single studies. You have to understand the parameters of the studies and see how they apply.
And I intentionally cited the source. Alan Aragon is one of the most knowledgeable and well respected person in the field of nutrition. Why would I take your approach and cherry pick one study or another to back my own thoughts when the research has already been done. And even if you don't know who Alan Aragon is, you can further look at more Meta-Analyses through examine.com which further support what Alan is stating.
But feel free to make a judgement if you want.
ETA: you should also put in the context that if you are consuming adequate protein and/or whey protein, you are getting more than enough Leucine and protein where BCAA's are going to provide you any additional benefit.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4865017/
I'm not arguing there are not studies that acknowledge what you are saying but there many that argue differently... I've read the source you cite about caloric restrictions and BCAAs - it's been posted and reposted 50x.
I'm saying you are the one judging people for using them! I could care less if you do or not or your opinion but since you shared it I shared mine.
As for me, I already stated I don't use them... only L Glutamine post workout - which I'm sure you feel is a waste of money
I consume 40 - 50% of my macros in protein or 250 to 300g daily from chicken, steak, & shakes.
Oh & I love pre workouts too.....
Have degrees in Exersice Physiology & Physical Therapy also.
You can use whatever supplements you want. It personally has not effect on me. And I am not judging. Your assertion is way off base on that. If you take the time and read the whole post in context (instead of asserting your own), you will see why I posted it.
Do I feel BCAA's are overhyped, sure. Looking at the meta analyses would demonstrate that unless you are doing fasted workouts where you aren't eating a meal within a few hour range or on a low protein diet. Is it going to hurt you? No.
I do think that many people want to bring in supplements far before they address other requirements (calories, macros, micros, timing). So if anything have people focus on the other components first and then discuss supplemention if they think it would be beneficial.1 -
ItsAllMental819 wrote: »ItsAllMental819 wrote: »TannedTiger wrote: »all broke-*kitten* will say it's a waste of money.
Yea.. because it's not tlike there is science or anything to back that recommendation....
oh wait:Alan Aragon wrote: »
Hey everyone, a frequently recurring topic is BCAA supplementation. A lot of folks are simply unaware of the actual data, so they needlessly waste their hard-earned cash on BCAA supps. This might not be music to the ears of folks locked in a routine of taking their favorite supp, but my hope is that it gives some of you food for thought, and ultimately helps you zap an unnecessary (and potentially detrimental) item from your supplement shopping list.
The high-quality proteins in our diets are comprised of appx 18-26% BCAA as it is. Supplementing with extra BCAA on top of that can range from adding extra unnecessary calories (and metabolic burden), to actually inhibiting optimal use of ingested amino acids [1].
Let me also add that whey protein has a stronger anabolic/anticatabolic effect than its equivalent in supplemental EAA or BCAA [2]. It's no surprise that supplemental BCAA has an equivocal track record in the research [3,4]. For those concerned about "going catabolic" doing fasted cardio without AA supplementation, my colleagues and I found no difference in body comp effects between fed vs fasted cardio when total protein is sufficient (both groups retained their LBM) [5]. As for the ability of BCAA to inhibit muscle soreness, note that this is always compared to a non-protein placebo.
It's LOL to supp with BCAA to begin with (instead of an intact, high-quality protein such as whey, which provides the rest of the EAAs as well as other co-factors for anabolism -- but it's all moot if you're getting enough total daily protein anyway). Here’s a salient quote from a recent review [6]:
"Thus, as we speculated, consumption of crystalline BCAA resulted in competitive antagonism for uptake from the gut and into the muscle and was actually not as effective as leucine alone in stimulating MPS. Despite the popularity of BCAA supplements we find shockingly little evidence for their efficacy in promoting MPS or lean mass gains and would advise the use of intact proteins as opposed to a purified combination of BCAA that appear to antagonize each other in terms of transport both into circulation and likely in to the muscle.”
The only people who are not wasting time & money on supplemental BCAA are those who must maintain a low-protein diet, or a diet with restricted amounts of high-quality protein. With that all said, if your total daily protein is optimized, and you don't mind consuming the functional equivalent of really expensive flavored water, then be my guest.
1) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27175106
2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22451437
3) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20110810
4) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15930475
5) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25429252/
6) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26388782/
Everyone is entitled their opinions but too say they are a waste of money is ludicrous... Why don't you worry about yourself and try to cite your own sources? Did you even read these studies? Most are about L-luceine only or specific times the study concentrated on like caloric restrictions or when consuming ample protein & protein drinks. I don't use a BCAA drink but do take L - Glutamine after every workout but would take them and would never tell someone they were wasting their time or money for trying to better & give themselves a boost or edge.
There are studies that support the effects of BCAA's & other amino acids - especially L-Glutamine - on muscle recuperation and growth but I'll let you research that yourself since you are the expert... Wouldn't want you too just re post them. What are the requirement to be a MFP Moderator anyways?
I know this is basic knowledge but meta-analysis > single studies. You have to understand the parameters of the studies and see how they apply.
And I intentionally cited the source. Alan Aragon is one of the most knowledgeable and well respected person in the field of nutrition. Why would I take your approach and cherry pick one study or another to back my own thoughts when the research has already been done. And even if you don't know who Alan Aragon is, you can further look at more Meta-Analyses through examine.com which further support what Alan is stating.
But feel free to make a judgement if you want.
ETA: you should also put in the context that if you are consuming adequate protein and/or whey protein, you are getting more than enough Leucine and protein where BCAA's are going to provide you any additional benefit.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4865017/
I'm not arguing there are not studies that acknowledge what you are saying but there many that argue differently... I've read the source you cite about caloric restrictions and BCAAs - it's been posted and reposted 50x.
I'm saying you are the one judging people for using them! I could care less if you do or not or your opinion but since you shared it I shared mine.
As for me, I already stated I don't use them... only L Glutamine post workout - which I'm sure you feel is a waste of money
I consume 40 - 50% of my macros in protein or 250 to 300g daily from chicken, steak, & shakes.
Oh & I love pre workouts too.....
Have degrees in Exersice Physiology & Physical Therapy also.
You can use whatever supplements you want. It personally has not effect on me. And I am not judging. Your assertion is way off base on that. If you take the time and read the whole post in context (instead of asserting your own), you will see why I posted it.
Do I feel BCAA's are overhyped, sure. Looking at the meta analyses would demonstrate that unless you are doing fasted workouts where you aren't eating a meal within a few hour range or on a low protein diet. Is it going to hurt you? No.
I do think that many people want to bring in supplements far before they address other requirements (calories, macros, micros, timing). So if anything have people focus on the other components first and then discuss supplemention if they think it would be beneficial.
If I was off on how I took your comment I apologize - just how it read too me.
I can agree with the last part of your response though....
0 -
There is nothing I don't like about BCAA's. I take it every day while training. They help reduce fatigue while working out, help to use fat for energy while working out, reduce muscle soreness and speed up recovery time. Why would you not want to take them is the question. I take a lot of supplements but BCAA's are a staple!
Plus, they taste amazing and take away sugar cravings!!
0 -
ItsAllMental819 wrote: »ItsAllMental819 wrote: »ItsAllMental819 wrote: »TannedTiger wrote: »all broke-*kitten* will say it's a waste of money.
Yea.. because it's not tlike there is science or anything to back that recommendation....
oh wait:Alan Aragon wrote: »
Hey everyone, a frequently recurring topic is BCAA supplementation. A lot of folks are simply unaware of the actual data, so they needlessly waste their hard-earned cash on BCAA supps. This might not be music to the ears of folks locked in a routine of taking their favorite supp, but my hope is that it gives some of you food for thought, and ultimately helps you zap an unnecessary (and potentially detrimental) item from your supplement shopping list.
The high-quality proteins in our diets are comprised of appx 18-26% BCAA as it is. Supplementing with extra BCAA on top of that can range from adding extra unnecessary calories (and metabolic burden), to actually inhibiting optimal use of ingested amino acids [1].
Let me also add that whey protein has a stronger anabolic/anticatabolic effect than its equivalent in supplemental EAA or BCAA [2]. It's no surprise that supplemental BCAA has an equivocal track record in the research [3,4]. For those concerned about "going catabolic" doing fasted cardio without AA supplementation, my colleagues and I found no difference in body comp effects between fed vs fasted cardio when total protein is sufficient (both groups retained their LBM) [5]. As for the ability of BCAA to inhibit muscle soreness, note that this is always compared to a non-protein placebo.
It's LOL to supp with BCAA to begin with (instead of an intact, high-quality protein such as whey, which provides the rest of the EAAs as well as other co-factors for anabolism -- but it's all moot if you're getting enough total daily protein anyway). Here’s a salient quote from a recent review [6]:
"Thus, as we speculated, consumption of crystalline BCAA resulted in competitive antagonism for uptake from the gut and into the muscle and was actually not as effective as leucine alone in stimulating MPS. Despite the popularity of BCAA supplements we find shockingly little evidence for their efficacy in promoting MPS or lean mass gains and would advise the use of intact proteins as opposed to a purified combination of BCAA that appear to antagonize each other in terms of transport both into circulation and likely in to the muscle.”
The only people who are not wasting time & money on supplemental BCAA are those who must maintain a low-protein diet, or a diet with restricted amounts of high-quality protein. With that all said, if your total daily protein is optimized, and you don't mind consuming the functional equivalent of really expensive flavored water, then be my guest.
1) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27175106
2) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22451437
3) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20110810
4) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15930475
5) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25429252/
6) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26388782/
Everyone is entitled their opinions but too say they are a waste of money is ludicrous... Why don't you worry about yourself and try to cite your own sources? Did you even read these studies? Most are about L-luceine only or specific times the study concentrated on like caloric restrictions or when consuming ample protein & protein drinks. I don't use a BCAA drink but do take L - Glutamine after every workout but would take them and would never tell someone they were wasting their time or money for trying to better & give themselves a boost or edge.
There are studies that support the effects of BCAA's & other amino acids - especially L-Glutamine - on muscle recuperation and growth but I'll let you research that yourself since you are the expert... Wouldn't want you too just re post them. What are the requirement to be a MFP Moderator anyways?
I know this is basic knowledge but meta-analysis > single studies. You have to understand the parameters of the studies and see how they apply.
And I intentionally cited the source. Alan Aragon is one of the most knowledgeable and well respected person in the field of nutrition. Why would I take your approach and cherry pick one study or another to back my own thoughts when the research has already been done. And even if you don't know who Alan Aragon is, you can further look at more Meta-Analyses through examine.com which further support what Alan is stating.
But feel free to make a judgement if you want.
ETA: you should also put in the context that if you are consuming adequate protein and/or whey protein, you are getting more than enough Leucine and protein where BCAA's are going to provide you any additional benefit.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4865017/
I'm not arguing there are not studies that acknowledge what you are saying but there many that argue differently... I've read the source you cite about caloric restrictions and BCAAs - it's been posted and reposted 50x.
I'm saying you are the one judging people for using them! I could care less if you do or not or your opinion but since you shared it I shared mine.
As for me, I already stated I don't use them... only L Glutamine post workout - which I'm sure you feel is a waste of money
I consume 40 - 50% of my macros in protein or 250 to 300g daily from chicken, steak, & shakes.
Oh & I love pre workouts too.....
Have degrees in Exersice Physiology & Physical Therapy also.
You can use whatever supplements you want. It personally has not effect on me. And I am not judging. Your assertion is way off base on that. If you take the time and read the whole post in context (instead of asserting your own), you will see why I posted it.
Do I feel BCAA's are overhyped, sure. Looking at the meta analyses would demonstrate that unless you are doing fasted workouts where you aren't eating a meal within a few hour range or on a low protein diet. Is it going to hurt you? No.
I do think that many people want to bring in supplements far before they address other requirements (calories, macros, micros, timing). So if anything have people focus on the other components first and then discuss supplemention if they think it would be beneficial.
If I was off on how I took your comment I apologize - just how it read too me.
I can agree with the last part of your response though....
Cool. I suspect you and I agree much more than you think. I do think there is value in some supplements, considering the context of ones diet, training (both programming and experience level) and goals.1 -
I take BCCA because I train fasted and most of the time I don't break my fast until 6 hours later. I also have a hard time getting 1gr of protein per lb at times.
Not sure how much they help or not. But it gives me a piece of mind.0 -
For those that want to do some of their own research, you might consider using google scholar - https://scholar.google.com/ Think of it as a search engine for case studies, publications, etc.0
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