CICO and PCOS
Krby13
Posts: 63 Member
I'm starting to think that the principles behind CICO in terms of losing weight do not apply the same way to people with PCOS and hypothyroid. Supposedly if you eat under your calorie goal for the day, no matter what you eat, you will lose weight, right? Then how come this does not work for me? I have been eating under my daily calorie goal by anywhere from 100-300+ calories each day and I'm not losing. And yes, I weigh everything, scan all packages, etc. I don't guess. I've heard that it's common for people with PCOS and hypothyroid to have a harder time losing weight and that's why most are very overweight and gain weight very easily. Its been suggested to me that I not only pay attention to my caloric intake but also try a low-glycemic diet for my PCOS. I'm also currently not on any medication for either. While I've had PCOS for a long time now, I've just started really looking into this and am trying to understand how having PCOS might be thwarting my weight loss goals. Anyone else have more knowledge of this and know anything that works? I just don't think I can JUST practice CICO and lose weight. Does low glycemic work with PCOS?
I'm just getting very frustrated with feeling like I'm doing really good each day and then when I weigh myself at the end of the week and there is little to no progress, I feel like it was all a waste.
I'm just getting very frustrated with feeling like I'm doing really good each day and then when I weigh myself at the end of the week and there is little to no progress, I feel like it was all a waste.
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Replies
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The thing is, CICO still applies (it's physics) but PCOS affects your CO so the calculators will potentially be wrong. The theory is sound, you just have a whacky variable.6
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little progress is still progress...
i have a few pals who do better on lower crabs, you just need to find out what your best macros are, but at the end of the day its your calorie deficit that counts.1 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »The thing is, CICO still applies (it's physics) but PCOS affects your CO so the calculators will potentially be wrong. The theory is sound, you just have a whacky variable.
Agreed. I have PCOS and this meshes with my experience. I find everything comes together for me if I eat at a solid deficit (1-1.5lbs/wk), eat moderate carbs (150-200g), and exercise vigorously most days. I could exercise less if I ate fewer carbs, but I like both exercise and carbs, and I enjoy the extra calories, so it works for me. I'm at 195 lbs now; started at 248. Other people handle it differently.
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I think it is hard to say this is true for everyone with PCOS. I can't speak to the thyroid issue.
I have PCOS and I pretty much eat whatever I want within my calories (approx. 1600-1700 a day). I do try to meet my protein goals every day and I try to link any carbs I eat with about 50% protein (so, 30g carbs, I try to eat at least 15g protein). I still eat sugar, white flour, bread, etc.
What really boosted things for me was adding in exercise. I do both cardio and strength training. I also don't really eat back any of my exercise calories (maybe 400-500 a week out of 2800 earned).
I agree with @TmacMMM that a solid deficit is most important.1 -
CICO still applies. If you are hypothyroid and unmedicated, you have more serious problems to worry about than losing weight. Why aren't you on meds? Hypothyroidism is in the modern world considered no big deal because there is medication for it, it was a disabling and finally terminal illness before meds.
Treat your thyroid, count calories, and as you lose the weight, this will help with PCOS too.2 -
The thing about PCOS is that it (sometimes) messes with your metabolism, insulin, etc. CICO still applies, but like others have said the calculations may be off. Your BMR could be off by as much as 400 calories a day, so if MFP has you eating 1600 you *could* be burning only 1200. Play around with your calories and see what yields results and you'll know more about your body. I'm moderately active but I have sedentary down as my activity level. I go to the gym 5 or 6 days a week and do 45 minutes of cardio plus 30-60 minutes of weights each visit. I take my exercise calories with a grain of salt, and only eat a small portion of them back. I've lost 21 pounds since February, and I'm not sure about inches but they've gone down as well.
If you're accurately logging everything you eat, staying in your calorie range and still not losing you may want to discuss it with your Dr. because there could be more going on than you realize.0 -
Agree with the above. CICO is the "secret" to losing weight, but PCOS may be messing with calories out. Hormones can make things wacky. Maybe experiment a bit with lowering your calorie goal? I have PCOS, but also have been blessed with a higher than normal metabolism (I'm guessing). So for me to lose weight, I have to eat the most satiating foods as I can to stay within my calorie goals (currently netting 1400). Lean protein, appropriate fats, whole grains, and veggies, veggies, veggies. Make your calories count to stay within your goal. Look up foods with high satiation and put those in your house. Don't give up. Everyday you stick to it you are healthier and fitter than the day before.2
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I have PCOS. I lost 52 lbs over the course of 2014 by eating fewer calories than I burned. I have no doubt in my mind that the calorie deficit (aka "CICO") is what led to the weight loss. I moved more and ate less. I went from slug-like sedentary to pretty active and still ate a good amount of food (never averaged below 1750 calories eaten per day) while being in a deficit.3
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CICO does not work for me at all and I have PCOS. PCOS affects every woman differently. Some have a milder form and may not be insulin sensitive. I have noticed that if eat carb heavy I gain weight rapidly. So even at a healthy weight I have to watch it. Low carb works just as good as Metformin for me without the side effects of the drug. Also, I really don't mind eating low carb as I feel better physically and emotionally.2
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CICO not working means basic physical laws no longer apply. Which is not very probable.
And I have PCOS, I am insulin resistant and I am also hypothyroid.1 -
CICO does not work for me at all and I have PCOS. PCOS affects every woman differently. Some have a milder form and may not be insulin sensitive. I have noticed that if eat carb heavy I gain weight rapidly. So even at a healthy weight I have to watch it. Low carb works just as good as Metformin for me without the side effects of the drug. Also, I really don't mind eating low carb as I feel better physically and emotionally.
I agree with the part of PCOS effecting every woman differently. And I think what you're saying is that you can't just practice CICO alone to lose weight. You have to keep other things in mind when dieting if you expect to lose like being low Carb. I would love to be able to stay off Metformin and still lose weight too. The Metformin just makes me feel sick all the time.
I know CICO still applies, but I guess what I'm experiencing myself and reading here from others is that I'm not going to be able to lose and still be able to eat whatever I want as long as I stay under my daily caloric intake. I have to stay under that goal but also need to find out what else I have to be possibly stay away from or eat minimally to assist the process. I might see if low carb works for me in conjunction with CICO. Or maybe try a low glycemic diet.
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CICO not working means basic physical laws no longer apply. Which is not very probable.
And I have PCOS, I am insulin resistant and I am also hypothyroid.
So do you still eat whatever you want while being mindful of your daily caloric intake and still lose weight? Or are there any food types you stay away from? Or are you on any medications?
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CICO still applies. If you are hypothyroid and unmedicated, you have more serious problems to worry about than losing weight. Why aren't you on meds? Hypothyroidism is in the modern world considered no big deal because there is medication for it, it was a disabling and finally terminal illness before meds.
Treat your thyroid, count calories, and as you lose the weight, this will help with PCOS too.
I was just diagnosed. And who knows how long I had it before I finally got diagnosed. I don't go to the doctor very often unless I'm actually sick with something I can't treat at home.0 -
CICO not working means basic physical laws no longer apply. Which is not very probable.
And I have PCOS, I am insulin resistant and I am also hypothyroid.
So do you still eat whatever you want while being mindful of your daily caloric intake and still lose weight? Or are there any food types you stay away from? Or are you on any medications?
Yes, I eat without restrictions, other than monitoring calories and I try to be physically active. I am pretty sure my base metabolism is lower than normal, as is usually the case with PCOS, but still, if I eat less, I lose, if I eat more I gain, regardless of what I am eating.1 -
CICO not working means basic physical laws no longer apply. Which is not very probable.
And I have PCOS, I am insulin resistant and I am also hypothyroid.
So do you still eat whatever you want while being mindful of your daily caloric intake and still lose weight? Or are there any food types you stay away from? Or are you on any medications?
Yes, I eat without restrictions, other than monitoring calories and I try to be physically active. I am pretty sure my base metabolism is lower than normal, as is usually the case with PCOS, but still, if I eat less, I lose, if I eat more I gain, regardless of what I am eating.
I'm glad that it works for you. But it's clearly not working for me in terms of just counting calories. Is your PCOS treated with some sort of medication?
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CICO still applies. If you are hypothyroid and unmedicated, you have more serious problems to worry about than losing weight. Why aren't you on meds? Hypothyroidism is in the modern world considered no big deal because there is medication for it, it was a disabling and finally terminal illness before meds.
Treat your thyroid, count calories, and as you lose the weight, this will help with PCOS too.
The thresholds for medication vary. The threshold for medication is considerably lower in the UK than in the US, for example. It is very common for people to be hypothyroid by the definitions of one healthcare system and not for another.0 -
CICO not working means basic physical laws no longer apply. Which is not very probable.
And I have PCOS, I am insulin resistant and I am also hypothyroid.
So do you still eat whatever you want while being mindful of your daily caloric intake and still lose weight? Or are there any food types you stay away from? Or are you on any medications?
Yes, I eat without restrictions, other than monitoring calories and I try to be physically active. I am pretty sure my base metabolism is lower than normal, as is usually the case with PCOS, but still, if I eat less, I lose, if I eat more I gain, regardless of what I am eating.
I'm glad that it works for you. But it's clearly not working for me in terms of just counting calories. Is your PCOS treated with some sort of medication?
No, just diet and exercise0 -
tiny_clanger wrote: »CICO still applies. If you are hypothyroid and unmedicated, you have more serious problems to worry about than losing weight. Why aren't you on meds? Hypothyroidism is in the modern world considered no big deal because there is medication for it, it was a disabling and finally terminal illness before meds.
Treat your thyroid, count calories, and as you lose the weight, this will help with PCOS too.
The thresholds for medication vary. The threshold for medication is considerably lower in the UK than in the US, for example. It is very common for people to be hypothyroid by the definitions of one healthcare system and not for another.
Perhaps, but for hypothyroidism to significantly affect weight, one would have to be seriously hypothyroid, with several other far more serious symptoms. Sub-clinical hypothyroidism, which I am guessing is where different healthcare symptoms differ, does not cause weight gain.0 -
PCOS also comes in different levels of severity. There are people with PCOS with no insulin issues, while others have full-blown diabetes.
I think self-experimentation is the only way to determine what works and what you're willing to do. I'm unwilling to be medicated for PCOS. I think my lifestyle changes are staving off insulin issues but have no evidence of that. All I know is that I'm losing weight, and it's not a struggle. So I'll keep doing what I'm doing until/unless it stops working.0 -
tiny_clanger wrote: »CICO still applies. If you are hypothyroid and unmedicated, you have more serious problems to worry about than losing weight. Why aren't you on meds? Hypothyroidism is in the modern world considered no big deal because there is medication for it, it was a disabling and finally terminal illness before meds.
Treat your thyroid, count calories, and as you lose the weight, this will help with PCOS too.
The thresholds for medication vary. The threshold for medication is considerably lower in the UK than in the US, for example. It is very common for people to be hypothyroid by the definitions of one healthcare system and not for another.
Perhaps, but for hypothyroidism to significantly affect weight, one would have to be seriously hypothyroid, with several other far more serious symptoms. Sub-clinical hypothyroidism, which I am guessing is where different healthcare symptoms differ, does not cause weight gain.
If you look up the side effects of hypothyroidism one them is weight gain. I've seen that listed on every side effects list on multiple sites.
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It also slows your metabolism and effects the way your stomach digests food0
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tiny_clanger wrote: »CICO still applies. If you are hypothyroid and unmedicated, you have more serious problems to worry about than losing weight. Why aren't you on meds? Hypothyroidism is in the modern world considered no big deal because there is medication for it, it was a disabling and finally terminal illness before meds.
Treat your thyroid, count calories, and as you lose the weight, this will help with PCOS too.
The thresholds for medication vary. The threshold for medication is considerably lower in the UK than in the US, for example. It is very common for people to be hypothyroid by the definitions of one healthcare system and not for another.
Perhaps, but for hypothyroidism to significantly affect weight, one would have to be seriously hypothyroid, with several other far more serious symptoms. Sub-clinical hypothyroidism, which I am guessing is where different healthcare symptoms differ, does not cause weight gain.
If you look up the side effects of hypothyroidism one them is weight gain. I've seen that listed on every side effects list on multiple sites.
I have lived with hypothyroidism for close to 30 years now. For hypothyroidism to cause weight gain more than a few kilos total, you have to be seriously ill, to the point of not being able to get out of bed, or falling asleep mid-sentence. While hypothyroidism is a serious illness and can cause weight gain, it rarely is really what is responsible for significant weight gain, since few people these days remain untreated. Now, if for whatever reason you (general you, not you you) have e.g. a TSH number in the hundreds, then you have a serious problem, need a new dr, but weight gain really is the least of your concerns. But being treated or not with marginal values might affect how you feel, especially your mood, will have a small change in weight, but will not cause changes from normal to obese or the opposite.1 -
The average weight gain as quoted in most medical resources that can be attributed to hypothyroidism is of the order of 5 kilos by the way, not the 100 that many people seem to think.
Look here for example: http://www.thyroid.org/wp-content/uploads/patients/brochures/Thyroid_and_Weight.pdf
" Most of the extra weight gained
in hypothyroid individuals is due to excess accumulation
of salt and water. Massive weight gain is rarely associated
with hypothyroidism. In general, 5-10 pounds of body
weight may be attributable to the thyroid, depending on
the severity of the hypothyroidism. Finally, if weight gain
is the only symptom of hypothyroidism that is present, it is
less likely that the weight gain is solely due to the thyroid."2 -
I thought that weight gain due to hypothyroidism was fairly minor.
http://www.thyroid.org/thyroid-and-weight/
How active are you outside of exercise? I see a lot of women with PCOS slash their calories and even up exercise but have trouble losing. They often are pretty much slugs outside of exercise, which means low NEAT calorie expenditure. Lyle Mcdonald has talked about studies showing people (not specifically with PCOS) whose NEAT decreases in a deficit, sometimes at a rate that matches the cut, rendering it useless.
Have you ever figured your TDEE based on a calculator and then reduced it by a small amount - - 250-300 cals? Then ate that for a month and reduced by another 100 cals, repeating the month before deciding to reduce again or keep the same calories? It could be a helpful exercise. You may find that you are naturally more active in day to day life simply by eating slightly more.0 -
According to my endocrinologist, I have a 'whopper' of a case of PCOS--for about 25 years now. I had to take fertility meds to conceive, needed a hair transplant for stage 4 male-pattern baldness, and was headed toward diabetes fast.
One doctor warned me that women with PCOS cannot lose weight--the best they can hope for is to maintain. So I showed her and lost 130+ lbs!
I lost the first 30 by simply removing almost all carbs and not limiting calories at all, and I never exercised. That worked great till it stopped working. So carbs are definitely an issue with PCOS and IR weight control--but they aren't the whole story.
The final 100 lbs I lost with CICO. I did the calculator with MFP and it was right on target--most of the time I was at 1200 cal for 2 lb/week loss. I lost a little faster than that, but probably because I disregarded my exercise calories. I try to be reasonable with carbs, but I didn't cut them back like in the beginning--and the weight has come off.
Based on advice from people here on MFP I started weight training. I had begun regular cardio workouts, but a few people said the weights and lifting as heavy as I could helps with IR. Not sure about why, but it seems to be true. So now I have lost 130, weigh less than I did before I started gaining as a teen AND I'm in shape like never before because of the exercise at 50 years old!
I also have thyroid issues, but they remain undiagnosed, since the symptoms are baffling to the dr. I have masses on my thyroid that seem to be doing all the regulating. BUT since losing the weight I feel no more effects from that and my last ultrasound was the first in 10 years that showed no new growth of the masses--could be because I lost the weight. I was also able to get off beta blockers I was taking because my thyroid was causing arrhythmia in my heart--and that has completely stopped now.
I haven't taken the step to get off Metformin yet, but I'd like to. I'm also on Spironolactone which is holding my hair in my head (testosterone blocker) and I'll probably never get off that.
But you can do this. Be faithful to CICO, start some sort of weight training to battle the IR, and be dedicated to the long haul!6 -
tiny_clanger wrote: »CICO still applies. If you are hypothyroid and unmedicated, you have more serious problems to worry about than losing weight. Why aren't you on meds? Hypothyroidism is in the modern world considered no big deal because there is medication for it, it was a disabling and finally terminal illness before meds.
Treat your thyroid, count calories, and as you lose the weight, this will help with PCOS too.
The thresholds for medication vary. The threshold for medication is considerably lower in the UK than in the US, for example. It is very common for people to be hypothyroid by the definitions of one healthcare system and not for another.
Perhaps, but for hypothyroidism to significantly affect weight, one would have to be seriously hypothyroid, with several other far more serious symptoms. Sub-clinical hypothyroidism, which I am guessing is where different healthcare symptoms differ, does not cause weight gain.
If you look up the side effects of hypothyroidism one them is weight gain. I've seen that listed on every side effects list on multiple sites.
I have lived with hypothyroidism for close to 30 years now. For hypothyroidism to cause weight gain more than a few kilos total, you have to be seriously ill, to the point of not being able to get out of bed, or falling asleep mid-sentence. While hypothyroidism is a serious illness and can cause weight gain, it rarely is really what is responsible for significant weight gain, since few people these days remain untreated. Now, if for whatever reason you (general you, not you you) have e.g. a TSH number in the hundreds, then you have a serious problem, need a new dr, but weight gain really is the least of your concerns. But being treated or not with marginal values might affect how you feel, especially your mood, will have a small change in weight, but will not cause changes from normal to obese or the opposite.
As I said, I have just been diagnosed. Who knows how long I've had it for though and clearly I have not had "serious issues" or dropped dead from being untreated. I also suffer from PCOS, which can attribute to weight gain as well. So a double wallop to work with!
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JulieSHelms wrote: »According to my endocrinologist, I have a 'whopper' of a case of PCOS--for about 25 years now. I had to take fertility meds to conceive, needed a hair transplant for stage 4 male-pattern baldness, and was headed toward diabetes fast.
One doctor warned me that women with PCOS cannot lose weight--the best they can hope for is to maintain. So I showed her and lost 130+ lbs!
I lost the first 30 by simply removing almost all carbs and not limiting calories at all, and I never exercised. That worked great till it stopped working. So carbs are definitely an issue with PCOS and IR weight control--but they aren't the whole story.
The final 100 lbs I lost with CICO. I did the calculator with MFP and it was right on target--most of the time I was at 1200 cal for 2 lb/week loss. I lost a little faster than that, but probably because I disregarded my exercise calories. I try to be reasonable with carbs, but I didn't cut them back like in the beginning--and the weight has come off.
Based on advice from people here on MFP I started weight training. I had begun regular cardio workouts, but a few people said the weights and lifting as heavy as I could helps with IR. Not sure about why, but it seems to be true. So now I have lost 130, weigh less than I did before I started gaining as a teen AND I'm in shape like never before because of the exercise at 50 years old!
I also have thyroid issues, but they remain undiagnosed, since the symptoms are baffling to the dr. I have masses on my thyroid that seem to be doing all the regulating. BUT since losing the weight I feel no more effects from that and my last ultrasound was the first in 10 years that showed no new growth of the masses--could be because I lost the weight. I was also able to get off beta blockers I was taking because my thyroid was causing arrhythmia in my heart--and that has completely stopped now.
I haven't taken the step to get off Metformin yet, but I'd like to. I'm also on Spironolactone which is holding my hair in my head (testosterone blocker) and I'll probably never get off that.
But you can do this. Be faithful to CICO, start some sort of weight training to battle the IR, and be dedicated to the long haul!
How awesome that you were able to prove the doctors wrong! Kudos to you! I noticed you said you were on Metformin. Do you think that assisted in your weight loss? I've had doctors tell me that it can help me lose weight, but I've never stayed on it long as it makes me feel sick.
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I thought that weight gain due to hypothyroidism was fairly minor.
http://www.thyroid.org/thyroid-and-weight/
How active are you outside of exercise? I see a lot of women with PCOS slash their calories and even up exercise but have trouble losing. They often are pretty much slugs outside of exercise, which means low NEAT calorie expenditure. Lyle Mcdonald has talked about studies showing people (not specifically with PCOS) whose NEAT decreases in a deficit, sometimes at a rate that matches the cut, rendering it useless.
Have you ever figured your TDEE based on a calculator and then reduced it by a small amount - - 250-300 cals? Then ate that for a month and reduced by another 100 cals, repeating the month before deciding to reduce again or keep the same calories? It could be a helpful exercise. You may find that you are naturally more active in day to day life simply by eating slightly more.
No I haven't tried that. It sounds complicated
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I thought that weight gain due to hypothyroidism was fairly minor.
http://www.thyroid.org/thyroid-and-weight/
How active are you outside of exercise? I see a lot of women with PCOS slash their calories and even up exercise but have trouble losing. They often are pretty much slugs outside of exercise, which means low NEAT calorie expenditure. Lyle Mcdonald has talked about studies showing people (not specifically with PCOS) whose NEAT decreases in a deficit, sometimes at a rate that matches the cut, rendering it useless.
Have you ever figured your TDEE based on a calculator and then reduced it by a small amount - - 250-300 cals? Then ate that for a month and reduced by another 100 cals, repeating the month before deciding to reduce again or keep the same calories? It could be a helpful exercise. You may find that you are naturally more active in day to day life simply by eating slightly more.
No I haven't tried that. It sounds complicated
Count your calories daily for a week or two, with no changes at all. get the average. For the next few weeks, set as goal whatever this average was minus 300. Say you find the average to maintain to be 2500. Aim for 2200. If nothing happens after 2-3 weeks, cut more calories. All this assumes of course a tigt logging.0 -
I see. I'll try it.0
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