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CRP debate
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paperpudding wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I understand what CRP measures and what it's purpose is - is a common blood test and one I deal with in my work place all the time.
It's purpose, as I said before , is to measure inflammation markers - so relevant in monitoring auto immune conditions like rheumatoid arthritis or in measuring infection levels in infectious disease.
It does not have any purpose or relevance in context of sugar consumption.
healthyeating.sfgate.com/foods-avoid-high-creactive-protein-levels-11372.html
"Sugar also goes by other names, such as glucose, lactose, fructose, honey, molasses, fruit juice concentrate and syrup. It has little nutritional value and also stimulates the immune response, thus elevating C-reactive protein levels."
That link does not seem a medical source to me - and you do not need to provide sources showing me what CRP is - I am very familiar with it and its uses, as I explained already.
Eating sugar has no relevance to CRP levels - and not eating sugar or any other food has no effect on CRP levels. (unless specific gluten allergy or such if it triggers flare-up of specific auto immune disease eg coeliac disease )
As posters above mentioned, losing weight can help in management of some auto immune diseases, like rheumatoid arthritis, for example - but that doesnt equate to eating sugar is relevant to CRP levels.
There is no need to measure CRP in healthy people.
Please check out the 82 medical sources at the end of the article below that covers the new hs-CRP test results feature and why it may be a good screening for most MFP members for many reasons.
lifeextension.com/magazine/2014/5/testing-for-c-reactive-protein-may-save-your-life/page-01
The CRP test is on sale for $31.50 in much of the USA currently.
lifeextension.com/Vitamins-Supplements/itemLC120766/C-Reactive-Protein-CRP-Cardiac-Blood-Test
Below lists the 5 states where you can not order your own lab tests and how to find a LabCorp nearest in the USA. It lists all the testing that can be purchased through them as well.
lifeextension.com/Vitamins-Supplements/Blood-Tests/Blood-Tests
There is absolutely no need or purpose in healthy MFP members having CRP levels tested.
It is a test measuring inflamation markers - relevant in ascertaining level of infectious disease, or inflamation levels in chronic auto immune diseases.
It is NOT a screening test, like,say, blood sugar levels,lipid studies, PSA.
And eating sugar has no relevance or bearing on it.
I'd also like to interject, at this point, that not all inflammation is BAD.
Elevated CRP is, at times, normal, say in response to exercise.
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healthline.com/health/c-reactive-protein?m=0#overview1
"What is C-reactive protein?
Highlights
A C-reactive protein (CRP) test can help doctors determine your risk for heart disease or stroke.
A Harvard study found CRP to be more effective than cholesterol at predicting coronary issues in women.
Pregnancy, arthritis, lupus, pneumonia, and cancer can cause an especially high CRP......"
To me this sounds like a screening test more like PSA, lipid panels, etc.
At less than $40 out the door it is a good base line screening for most anyone wanting to improve their health with changes of diet and exercise in my view. Yes it does not tell us WHY this marker may be elevated but it is more meaningful than a personal opinion of what is going on inside it seems.
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paperpudding wrote: »I understand what CRP measures and what it's purpose is - is a common blood test and one I deal with in my work place all the time.
It's purpose, as I said before , is to measure inflammation markers - so relevant in monitoring auto immune conditions like rheumatoid arthritis or in measuring infection levels in infectious disease.
It does not have any purpose or relevance in context of sugar consumption.
Thanks for this. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience!4 -
It's pretty alarming that shady supplement sites are new shilling low value blood tests for people to try to self-diagnose their health status. It's pretty clear that they're preying on people who don't have a clue how to vet scientific sources online, just like they have been doing with sketchy supplements for years. With tests, however, people who take the wrong conclusions from the tests can end up harming themselves.
A CRP test alone is pretty meaningless without context, there's too many causes for a high reading, and a normal reading doesn't indicate the absence of a problem. A trained MD would use it in concert with other tests and information about a patient to diagnose a condition, they wouldn't prescribe treatment based on this test alone.
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paperpudding wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I understand what CRP measures and what it's purpose is - is a common blood test and one I deal with in my work place all the time.
It's purpose, as I said before , is to measure inflammation markers - so relevant in monitoring auto immune conditions like rheumatoid arthritis or in measuring infection levels in infectious disease.
It does not have any purpose or relevance in context of sugar consumption.
healthyeating.sfgate.com/foods-avoid-high-creactive-protein-levels-11372.html
"Sugar also goes by other names, such as glucose, lactose, fructose, honey, molasses, fruit juice concentrate and syrup. It has little nutritional value and also stimulates the immune response, thus elevating C-reactive protein levels."
That link does not seem a medical source to me - and you do not need to provide sources showing me what CRP is - I am very familiar with it and its uses, as I explained already.
Eating sugar has no relevance to CRP levels - and not eating sugar or any other food has no effect on CRP levels. (unless specific gluten allergy or such if it triggers flare-up of specific auto immune disease eg coeliac disease )
As posters above mentioned, losing weight can help in management of some auto immune diseases, like rheumatoid arthritis, for example - but that doesnt equate to eating sugar is relevant to CRP levels.
There is no need to measure CRP in healthy people.
Please check out the 82 medical sources at the end of the article below that covers the new hs-CRP test results feature and why it may be a good screening for most MFP members for many reasons.
lifeextension.com/magazine/2014/5/testing-for-c-reactive-protein-may-save-your-life/page-01
The CRP test is on sale for $31.50 in much of the USA currently.
lifeextension.com/Vitamins-Supplements/itemLC120766/C-Reactive-Protein-CRP-Cardiac-Blood-Test
Below lists the 5 states where you can not order your own lab tests and how to find a LabCorp nearest in the USA. It lists all the testing that can be purchased through them as well.
lifeextension.com/Vitamins-Supplements/Blood-Tests/Blood-Tests
There is absolutely no need or purpose in healthy MFP members having CRP levels tested.
It is a test measuring inflamation markers - relevant in ascertaining level of infectious disease, or inflamation levels in chronic auto immune diseases.
It is NOT a screening test, like,say, blood sugar levels,lipid studies, PSA.
And eating sugar has no relevance or bearing on it.
Further to this point, let's say that consumption of sugar does elevate CRP levels. Is there any evidence that its effect is permanent?
Even the links provided previously have shown that it is perfectly normal to have transient increases in CRP levels from something like exercise or a temporary infection.
It would seem to me ,therefor, that the only permanent increase in inflammation due to the consumption of anything would be related to excess weight gain.
Now, if you want to argue that excess weight is a factor in reducing longevity (which the OP seems to be interested in preserving) well, I'd agree with you.
But I think this whole CRP thing is a money-making scheme.
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n=1, but I am dubious about this one. I typically eat ~100g of sugar (mostly simple/added sugar) per day while bulking, and have never seen a HS-CRP score above 0.5. I also have autoimmune issues, so from my limited anecdotal experience, it seems like being fit and physically active matter a lot more than cutting out sugar.9
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I have regular blood tests because of my auto-immune disease which include CRP, sed-rate and others and because I am on a biologic my doctor is checking for abnormal numbers. But I get perfect numbers every time, my RA is in remission. Yay me! And yay Big Pharma! Should I cut back on my sugar intake? Not gonna happen.8
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Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »I have regular blood tests because of my auto-immune disease which include CRP, sed-rate and others and because I am on a biologic my doctor is checking for abnormal numbers. But I get perfect numbers every time, my RA is in remission. Yay me! And yay Big Pharma! Should I cut back on my sugar intake? Not gonna happen.
This. As I stated upthread, my CRP used to be elevated. This was before my PSA was properly managed. In fact, it was before it was even properly diagnosed (I have a bit of an atypical case since I don't have skin lesions and only have psoriasis on my fingernails).
At the time, my GP thought that my CRP was high due to a family history of heart disease.
I'm also on a biologic, I'm fit and active and eat sugar. My CRP levels are just fine and perfectly normal.
So are all my markers which would indicate heart disease.
I really would like to see direct proof, in a double blind peer-reviewed study, that CRP is raised by consuming sugar and that's it's a meaningful metric for anything other than general inflammation.6 -
It's not always a reliable indicator even in chronic / autoimmune conditions. I have ulcerative colitis and my crp levels are nearly always normal even during an acute flare.8
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If sugar raises CRP levels, then our entire biological systems would be at odds with the primary fuel source for all cellular activity. Doesn't that seem... Improbable? The immune system would be constantly fighting every single cell in our body where carbohydrate metabolism and TCA cycle are active (which is nearly everywhere).
(throwing my expertise into the ring here with 20+ years as a biophysical chemist who has studied both carbohydrate metabolism and immunology)19 -
It's pretty alarming that shady supplement sites are new shilling low value blood tests for people to try to self-diagnose their health status. It's pretty clear that they're preying on people who don't have a clue how to vet scientific sources online, just like they have been doing with sketchy supplements for years. With tests, however, people who take the wrong conclusions from the tests can end up harming themselves.
The online lab sites I use are not "shady supplement sites" and don't offer anything but blood work. www.healthcheckusa, www.directlabs. There are others I use, but those are two. Neither sells supplements. Life Extension has a long history in the supplement industry. I don't use their lab orders because others are cheaper, but I wouldn't have an issue using them if they were the only one in existence.
I am thankful for the ability to get blood work that I can order online and have run at a local lab. We use this service all.the.time. It saves us a ton of money by doing it ourselves rather then running to the doctor to get it done. There are a few blood tests I do this way and then take the results to my doctor which she then reviews before renewing my armour. You seem to assume that people using this service have no idea what they are looking for or reading in the test results. I would submit that *most* of the people using this service are either doing so because it's cheaper to have the tests run this way and then take the results to their doctor for review OR, as is my case, have more then average knowledge of the things they are testing for and therefore do understand exactly what the test results are showing. The average joe likely doesn't even know they can get their own blood work run and if they do know it, many would be intimidated by doing so. I have friends that don't do it because they don't know how to read the results and would prefer their doctor do it. And I have friends that have more "expertise" in certain areas then the darn doctor does and I would prefer to go over my results with them if I didn't understand something.
So, no, this isn't alarming. I would not monitor several health markers that I should monitor if I had to go to a doctor to do so. When/if I ever get one that is way off, I will determine if a visit to my physician is in order. Until then, I'm my best own doctor and I'm cheaper then my regular physician as well. I hope they never do away with online blood testing orders.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »healthline.com/health/c-reactive-protein?m=0#overview1
"What is C-reactive protein?
Highlights
A C-reactive protein (CRP) test can help doctors determine your risk for heart disease or stroke.
A Harvard study found CRP to be more effective than cholesterol at predicting coronary issues in women.
Pregnancy, arthritis, lupus, pneumonia, and cancer can cause an especially high CRP......"
To me this sounds like a screening test more like PSA, lipid panels, etc.
At less than $40 out the door it is a good base line screening for most anyone wanting to improve their health with changes of diet and exercise in my view. Yes it does not tell us WHY this marker may be elevated but it is more meaningful than a personal opinion of what is going on inside it seems.
No it is not a screening test like those other tests I mentioned and it is not used for the purposes you mention
As other posters have said, it varies anyway and needs to be seen in context.
There is no point in simply getting a CRP test if you are healthy. It tells you nothing.
and a doctor will never order it a screening test nor as an isolated test without context.9 -
In fact, from the healthline link:
"According to the Mayo Clinic, the American Heart Association does not recommend the test for general screening of heart disease.....
If you are pregnant or have any other chronic infection or inflammatory disease, a CRP test is unlikely to accurately assess your risk for heart disease. Before having a CRP test, speak to your doctor about any medical conditions that may skew the test results. Since there are other blood tests that can be performed instead, you might wish to forego a CRP test altogether.
Remember that this test doesn’t provide a complete picture of your risk for cardiovascular disease. Your doctor will consider your lifestyle risk factors and family history when determining which follow-up tests are best for you. He or she may also order tests such as an EKG, echocardiogram, stress test, CT scan of the coronary arteries, or heart catheterization."9
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