Vegetarian or not?
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Hi!
For a variety of reasons, my family started to eat plant-based whole foods in January for all of the meals we eat at home. When we are with friends or extended family we still eat some meat, but it ends up being around 1 serving per week. We feel SO MUCH healtier eating less meat every day and eating more plant based foods, even my dyed-in-the-wool meat-eating Texan husband.
It was actually a really easy transition for us. I found a few cookbooks that I liked (Thug Kitchen, Appetite for Reduction) and started cooking from them.
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Right up front I am a really big fan of Dr. Gregor. Clearly he is bringing a strong point of view but there is an awful lot of data and science that supports his position. I always ate a lot of salads and veggies but at the start of the year I decided to really take it more seriously as I turned 60 in January and I'm watching my peers starting to leave the planet. In 3 months I dropped nearly 30 pounds and trained (and completed) my first 70.3 Ironman triathlon. It was a big experiment to see if a principally vegan diet could sustain me through an intense training regimen but the results were compelling. I wasn't completely vegan as I was having a daily whey protein shake and occasionally a bit of goat or parm cheese on my salad. I also travel and sometimes had business dinners at vegan-unfriendly restaurants - so I also had fish perhaps once a week. I figure I was 80% vegan/20% other. For me it still makes sense for social and other reasons to remain flexible for a small portion of my diet. Dr Gregor's is a strong advocate of eliminating everything that add health risks - all meat, alcohol etc., something that I am not willing to completely give up...yet.
Bottom line: I think Dr. Gregor presents a very solid case for the benefits of veganism but it is still about probability and risk as we all know some crazy great aunt that lived well to an old age eating mostly kidney pie. For me, it's all about quality of life of which healthy eating is a critical component, but there are other foods that contribute to quality of life like a good bottle of wine and eating crazy food every so often or BBQ at a friend's house so I'll have one rib instead of a whole plate full. I figure my body should be able to handle an occasional meal that is not on the straight and narrow but I do regularly watch Dr. Gregor's videos on the latest nutrition research and continually incorporate a lot his perspective into my thinking.
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SarahLascelles1 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
how are you vegan and low carb?
I don't understand this question.
Vegan: not eating any animal products.
Low carb: not eating carbs.
I'm not sure how they relate to each other?
I know what a vegan is. but if you are eating fruits and veggies how are you eating low carb? since fruits and veggies are low carb? are you eating tofu and fats mostly? any vegans I know eat high carb diets.4 -
Right up front I am a really big fan of Dr. Gregor. Clearly he is bringing a strong point of view but there is an awful lot of data and science that supports his position. I always ate a lot of salads and veggies but at the start of the year I decided to really take it more seriously as I turned 60 in January and I'm watching my peers starting to leave the planet. In 3 months I dropped nearly 30 pounds and trained (and completed) my first 70.3 Ironman triathlon. It was a big experiment to see if a principally vegan diet could sustain me through an intense training regimen but the results were compelling. I wasn't completely vegan as I was having a daily whey protein shake and occasionally a bit of goat or parm cheese on my salad. I also travel and sometimes had business dinners at vegan-unfriendly restaurants - so I also had fish perhaps once a week. I figure I was 80% vegan/20% other. For me it still makes sense for social and other reasons to remain flexible for a small portion of my diet. Dr Gregor's is a strong advocate of eliminating everything that add health risks - all meat, alcohol etc., something that I am not willing to completely give up...yet.
Bottom line: I think Dr. Gregor presents a very solid case for the benefits of veganism but it is still about probability and risk as we all know some crazy great aunt that lived well to an old age eating mostly kidney pie. For me, it's all about quality of life of which healthy eating is a critical component, but there are other foods that contribute to quality of life like a good bottle of wine and eating crazy food every so often or BBQ at a friend's house so I'll have one rib instead of a whole plate full. I figure my body should be able to handle an occasional meal that is not on the straight and narrow but I do regularly watch Dr. Gregor's videos on the latest nutrition research and continually incorporate a lot his perspective into my thinking.
I would be really careful with him. He not only cherry picks studies, but also contorts them in ways that are ridiculous. I'm sometimes curious about his videos because my diet is largely plant based out of preference and I'm interested in the literature behind it to know if I should focus on certain health aspects that interest me, but my advice if you are following him you are better off searching for the study itself instead of going with his interpretation.
For example, in one of his recent videos he was talking about blood sugar and triglycerides (both of which are of interest to me) and started the video by "American diets that are rich with meat and dairy cause this and that" showing snippets of that study. That study never mentioned meat and dairy, and blood sugar spikes more after a plant based starch rich meal than it does after a low carb meat rich meal. In fact every diabetic knows that it's better to mix starches with protein to blunt that spike. Then he jumps to a segment of another study, talking how fiber rich plant based foods are some of the best choices - and he highlights that, expecting us not to scroll a little further with our eyes to see that paper talk about incorporating fish and lean protein as a part of the same strategy aimed at managing blood glucose, so that's meat for you. He also deliberately ignores how markedly whey protein improves post meal spikes, so that's dairy for you. Then he compares how in one study adding chicken breast to rice did not blunt insulin (it did blunt blood sugar), but that's to be expected because protein increases insulin. Making the unfair comparison to another study where adding almond butter (has way more fat than protein) did blunt insulin some... I don't even need to go on. He's shady at best.
I really wish there was a reliable source for scientific information focused on plant based foods. I would be very interested in it. As it stands I find myself needing to examine every claim with an agenda for myself which gets tiring and not always possible because I don't have access to full study texts.5 -
Michael Greger is a militant vegan who has an agenda to push.
I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with having an agenda (none of us are truly neutral on everything). The issue is when those with agendas bend or ignore facts that don't fit their agenda.
I have a very strong bias towards veganism. I'll be upfront about it and I'm not going to lie to anyone in order to make the case for veganism. Should someone dismiss me just because I have an agenda? I think that would be a mistake -- address someone's arguments and honesty, not their motivation.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »Right up front I am a really big fan of Dr. Gregor. Clearly he is bringing a strong point of view but there is an awful lot of data and science that supports his position. I always ate a lot of salads and veggies but at the start of the year I decided to really take it more seriously as I turned 60 in January and I'm watching my peers starting to leave the planet. In 3 months I dropped nearly 30 pounds and trained (and completed) my first 70.3 Ironman triathlon. It was a big experiment to see if a principally vegan diet could sustain me through an intense training regimen but the results were compelling. I wasn't completely vegan as I was having a daily whey protein shake and occasionally a bit of goat or parm cheese on my salad. I also travel and sometimes had business dinners at vegan-unfriendly restaurants - so I also had fish perhaps once a week. I figure I was 80% vegan/20% other. For me it still makes sense for social and other reasons to remain flexible for a small portion of my diet. Dr Gregor's is a strong advocate of eliminating everything that add health risks - all meat, alcohol etc., something that I am not willing to completely give up...yet.
Bottom line: I think Dr. Gregor presents a very solid case for the benefits of veganism but it is still about probability and risk as we all know some crazy great aunt that lived well to an old age eating mostly kidney pie. For me, it's all about quality of life of which healthy eating is a critical component, but there are other foods that contribute to quality of life like a good bottle of wine and eating crazy food every so often or BBQ at a friend's house so I'll have one rib instead of a whole plate full. I figure my body should be able to handle an occasional meal that is not on the straight and narrow but I do regularly watch Dr. Gregor's videos on the latest nutrition research and continually incorporate a lot his perspective into my thinking.
I would be really careful with him. He not only cherry picks studies, but also contorts them in ways that are ridiculous. I'm sometimes curious about his videos because my diet is largely plant based out of preference and I'm interested in the literature behind it to know if I should focus on certain health aspects that interest me, but my advice if you are following him you are better off searching for the study itself instead of going with his interpretation.
For example, in one of his recent videos he was talking about blood sugar and triglycerides (both of which are of interest to me) and started the video by "American diets that are rich with meat and dairy cause this and that" showing snippets of that study. That study never mentioned meat and dairy, and blood sugar spikes more after a plant based starch rich meal than it does after a low carb meat rich meal. In fact every diabetic knows that it's better to mix starches with protein to blunt that spike. Then he jumps to a segment of another study, talking how fiber rich plant based foods are some of the best choices - and he highlights that, expecting us not to scroll a little further with our eyes to see that paper talk about incorporating fish and lean protein as a part of the same strategy aimed at managing blood glucose, so that's meat for you. He also deliberately ignores how markedly whey protein improves post meal spikes, so that's dairy for you. Then he compares how in one study adding chicken breast to rice did not blunt insulin (it did blunt blood sugar), but that's to be expected because protein increases insulin. Making the unfair comparison to another study where adding almond butter (has way more fat than protein) did blunt insulin some... I don't even need to go on. He's shady at best.
I really wish there was a reliable source for scientific information focused on plant based foods. I would be very interested in it. As it stands I find myself needing to examine every claim with an agenda for myself which gets tiring and not always possible because I don't have access to full study texts.
I have found veganhealth.org to be an excellent resource for science-based and rational evaluation of plant-based eating. The man who runs it is an RD and a vegan, but I've never noticed him to go beyond what I think the facts suggest for a given study (and I say this as someone who shares your concerns about Greger).3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Right up front I am a really big fan of Dr. Gregor. Clearly he is bringing a strong point of view but there is an awful lot of data and science that supports his position. I always ate a lot of salads and veggies but at the start of the year I decided to really take it more seriously as I turned 60 in January and I'm watching my peers starting to leave the planet. In 3 months I dropped nearly 30 pounds and trained (and completed) my first 70.3 Ironman triathlon. It was a big experiment to see if a principally vegan diet could sustain me through an intense training regimen but the results were compelling. I wasn't completely vegan as I was having a daily whey protein shake and occasionally a bit of goat or parm cheese on my salad. I also travel and sometimes had business dinners at vegan-unfriendly restaurants - so I also had fish perhaps once a week. I figure I was 80% vegan/20% other. For me it still makes sense for social and other reasons to remain flexible for a small portion of my diet. Dr Gregor's is a strong advocate of eliminating everything that add health risks - all meat, alcohol etc., something that I am not willing to completely give up...yet.
Bottom line: I think Dr. Gregor presents a very solid case for the benefits of veganism but it is still about probability and risk as we all know some crazy great aunt that lived well to an old age eating mostly kidney pie. For me, it's all about quality of life of which healthy eating is a critical component, but there are other foods that contribute to quality of life like a good bottle of wine and eating crazy food every so often or BBQ at a friend's house so I'll have one rib instead of a whole plate full. I figure my body should be able to handle an occasional meal that is not on the straight and narrow but I do regularly watch Dr. Gregor's videos on the latest nutrition research and continually incorporate a lot his perspective into my thinking.
I would be really careful with him. He not only cherry picks studies, but also contorts them in ways that are ridiculous. I'm sometimes curious about his videos because my diet is largely plant based out of preference and I'm interested in the literature behind it to know if I should focus on certain health aspects that interest me, but my advice if you are following him you are better off searching for the study itself instead of going with his interpretation.
For example, in one of his recent videos he was talking about blood sugar and triglycerides (both of which are of interest to me) and started the video by "American diets that are rich with meat and dairy cause this and that" showing snippets of that study. That study never mentioned meat and dairy, and blood sugar spikes more after a plant based starch rich meal than it does after a low carb meat rich meal. In fact every diabetic knows that it's better to mix starches with protein to blunt that spike. Then he jumps to a segment of another study, talking how fiber rich plant based foods are some of the best choices - and he highlights that, expecting us not to scroll a little further with our eyes to see that paper talk about incorporating fish and lean protein as a part of the same strategy aimed at managing blood glucose, so that's meat for you. He also deliberately ignores how markedly whey protein improves post meal spikes, so that's dairy for you. Then he compares how in one study adding chicken breast to rice did not blunt insulin (it did blunt blood sugar), but that's to be expected because protein increases insulin. Making the unfair comparison to another study where adding almond butter (has way more fat than protein) did blunt insulin some... I don't even need to go on. He's shady at best.
I really wish there was a reliable source for scientific information focused on plant based foods. I would be very interested in it. As it stands I find myself needing to examine every claim with an agenda for myself which gets tiring and not always possible because I don't have access to full study texts.
I have found veganhealth.org to be an excellent resource for science-based and rational evaluation of plant-based eating. The man who runs it is an RD and a vegan, but I've never noticed him to go beyond what I think the facts suggest for a given study (and I say this as someone who shares your concerns about Greger).
Thank you for the pointer! From what I've seen from you, I trust your recommendation. I will definitely check this out.
ETA: just took a quick look and this is EXACTLY the kind of thing I was looking for! How to get certain nutrients I'm often missing, how to do better with issues I have a family history of within my plant based preferences...etc. I loved this source and bookmarked it.1 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Right up front I am a really big fan of Dr. Gregor. Clearly he is bringing a strong point of view but there is an awful lot of data and science that supports his position. I always ate a lot of salads and veggies but at the start of the year I decided to really take it more seriously as I turned 60 in January and I'm watching my peers starting to leave the planet. In 3 months I dropped nearly 30 pounds and trained (and completed) my first 70.3 Ironman triathlon. It was a big experiment to see if a principally vegan diet could sustain me through an intense training regimen but the results were compelling. I wasn't completely vegan as I was having a daily whey protein shake and occasionally a bit of goat or parm cheese on my salad. I also travel and sometimes had business dinners at vegan-unfriendly restaurants - so I also had fish perhaps once a week. I figure I was 80% vegan/20% other. For me it still makes sense for social and other reasons to remain flexible for a small portion of my diet. Dr Gregor's is a strong advocate of eliminating everything that add health risks - all meat, alcohol etc., something that I am not willing to completely give up...yet.
Bottom line: I think Dr. Gregor presents a very solid case for the benefits of veganism but it is still about probability and risk as we all know some crazy great aunt that lived well to an old age eating mostly kidney pie. For me, it's all about quality of life of which healthy eating is a critical component, but there are other foods that contribute to quality of life like a good bottle of wine and eating crazy food every so often or BBQ at a friend's house so I'll have one rib instead of a whole plate full. I figure my body should be able to handle an occasional meal that is not on the straight and narrow but I do regularly watch Dr. Gregor's videos on the latest nutrition research and continually incorporate a lot his perspective into my thinking.
I would be really careful with him. He not only cherry picks studies, but also contorts them in ways that are ridiculous. I'm sometimes curious about his videos because my diet is largely plant based out of preference and I'm interested in the literature behind it to know if I should focus on certain health aspects that interest me, but my advice if you are following him you are better off searching for the study itself instead of going with his interpretation.
For example, in one of his recent videos he was talking about blood sugar and triglycerides (both of which are of interest to me) and started the video by "American diets that are rich with meat and dairy cause this and that" showing snippets of that study. That study never mentioned meat and dairy, and blood sugar spikes more after a plant based starch rich meal than it does after a low carb meat rich meal. In fact every diabetic knows that it's better to mix starches with protein to blunt that spike. Then he jumps to a segment of another study, talking how fiber rich plant based foods are some of the best choices - and he highlights that, expecting us not to scroll a little further with our eyes to see that paper talk about incorporating fish and lean protein as a part of the same strategy aimed at managing blood glucose, so that's meat for you. He also deliberately ignores how markedly whey protein improves post meal spikes, so that's dairy for you. Then he compares how in one study adding chicken breast to rice did not blunt insulin (it did blunt blood sugar), but that's to be expected because protein increases insulin. Making the unfair comparison to another study where adding almond butter (has way more fat than protein) did blunt insulin some... I don't even need to go on. He's shady at best.
I really wish there was a reliable source for scientific information focused on plant based foods. I would be very interested in it. As it stands I find myself needing to examine every claim with an agenda for myself which gets tiring and not always possible because I don't have access to full study texts.
I have found veganhealth.org to be an excellent resource for science-based and rational evaluation of plant-based eating. The man who runs it is an RD and a vegan, but I've never noticed him to go beyond what I think the facts suggest for a given study (and I say this as someone who shares your concerns about Greger).
Thank you for the pointer! From what I've seen from you, I trust your recommendation. I will definitely chick this out.
Aw, thanks. 1 -
jbirdgreen wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »You've been thinking about going vegetarian. Try it, and see what you think. Your opinion will be a lot more useful to you than mine.
I've posted this before and I'm sure I'll post it again.
This stuff ^ makes the yummiest tacos around.
I tried to use this stuff for sloppy joes and I hated it. I normally use the Boca or Gardein crumbles, which I like a lot better for that particular application.
Tacos though? I may have to try it that way before I give up on it.
I haven't tried them in sloppy joes but you really should try them with tacos before you give up. Sometimes we have these in pasta and it's ok but nothing special. But the texture is perfect for tacos.
I'm not just saying that because it's a yummy meal, it's also very rich in protein. It doesn't have to be hard to get enough protein as a vegetarian, but, for some people it is, so it's good to have options.1 -
I am a vegetarian and it is about balance and personal choices. A good read the China study pretty much sums it up in my.opinion. I do it for health reasons and I love animals.2
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I eat everything except for pork and seafood. I think you should make your choice based on what you want to eat. Also, "How Not To Die" - everybody dies.1
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amusedmonkey wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Right up front I am a really big fan of Dr. Gregor. Clearly he is bringing a strong point of view but there is an awful lot of data and science that supports his position. I always ate a lot of salads and veggies but at the start of the year I decided to really take it more seriously as I turned 60 in January and I'm watching my peers starting to leave the planet. In 3 months I dropped nearly 30 pounds and trained (and completed) my first 70.3 Ironman triathlon. It was a big experiment to see if a principally vegan diet could sustain me through an intense training regimen but the results were compelling. I wasn't completely vegan as I was having a daily whey protein shake and occasionally a bit of goat or parm cheese on my salad. I also travel and sometimes had business dinners at vegan-unfriendly restaurants - so I also had fish perhaps once a week. I figure I was 80% vegan/20% other. For me it still makes sense for social and other reasons to remain flexible for a small portion of my diet. Dr Gregor's is a strong advocate of eliminating everything that add health risks - all meat, alcohol etc., something that I am not willing to completely give up...yet.
Bottom line: I think Dr. Gregor presents a very solid case for the benefits of veganism but it is still about probability and risk as we all know some crazy great aunt that lived well to an old age eating mostly kidney pie. For me, it's all about quality of life of which healthy eating is a critical component, but there are other foods that contribute to quality of life like a good bottle of wine and eating crazy food every so often or BBQ at a friend's house so I'll have one rib instead of a whole plate full. I figure my body should be able to handle an occasional meal that is not on the straight and narrow but I do regularly watch Dr. Gregor's videos on the latest nutrition research and continually incorporate a lot his perspective into my thinking.
I would be really careful with him. He not only cherry picks studies, but also contorts them in ways that are ridiculous. I'm sometimes curious about his videos because my diet is largely plant based out of preference and I'm interested in the literature behind it to know if I should focus on certain health aspects that interest me, but my advice if you are following him you are better off searching for the study itself instead of going with his interpretation.
For example, in one of his recent videos he was talking about blood sugar and triglycerides (both of which are of interest to me) and started the video by "American diets that are rich with meat and dairy cause this and that" showing snippets of that study. That study never mentioned meat and dairy, and blood sugar spikes more after a plant based starch rich meal than it does after a low carb meat rich meal. In fact every diabetic knows that it's better to mix starches with protein to blunt that spike. Then he jumps to a segment of another study, talking how fiber rich plant based foods are some of the best choices - and he highlights that, expecting us not to scroll a little further with our eyes to see that paper talk about incorporating fish and lean protein as a part of the same strategy aimed at managing blood glucose, so that's meat for you. He also deliberately ignores how markedly whey protein improves post meal spikes, so that's dairy for you. Then he compares how in one study adding chicken breast to rice did not blunt insulin (it did blunt blood sugar), but that's to be expected because protein increases insulin. Making the unfair comparison to another study where adding almond butter (has way more fat than protein) did blunt insulin some... I don't even need to go on. He's shady at best.
I really wish there was a reliable source for scientific information focused on plant based foods. I would be very interested in it. As it stands I find myself needing to examine every claim with an agenda for myself which gets tiring and not always possible because I don't have access to full study texts.
I have found veganhealth.org to be an excellent resource for science-based and rational evaluation of plant-based eating. The man who runs it is an RD and a vegan, but I've never noticed him to go beyond what I think the facts suggest for a given study (and I say this as someone who shares your concerns about Greger).
Thank you for the pointer! From what I've seen from you, I trust your recommendation. I will definitely check this out.
ETA: just took a quick look and this is EXACTLY the kind of thing I was looking for! How to get certain nutrients I'm often missing, how to do better with issues I have a family history of within my plant based preferences...etc. I loved this source and bookmarked it.
I'm so glad you like it! Jack Norris, the man who runs it, often works with Virginia Messina, another vegan RD. Her blog is less academic but I like the stuff she posts as well: http://www.theveganrd.com/0 -
Leenizi129 wrote: »I am a vegetarian and it is about balance and personal choices. A good read the China study pretty much sums it up in my.opinion. I do it for health reasons and I love animals.
The China study is cherry picked data...the actual study doesn't jive with what he actually wrote and contradicts what he's written and a lot of people within the scientific community have called him on it.4 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Leenizi129 wrote: »I am a vegetarian and it is about balance and personal choices. A good read the China study pretty much sums it up in my.opinion. I do it for health reasons and I love animals.
The China study is cherry picked data...the actual study doesn't jive with what he actually wrote and contradicts what he's written and a lot of people within the scientific community have called him on it.
*nod nod*
Here's a good article in regards to the China Study -
sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-china-study-revisited/
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I've been doing a bit of reading on 'blue zones' and that, along with boredom with what I've been eating, has led me to change things up and I currently eat a mostly whole foods, plant based diet. But I don't foresee myself ever completely eliminating meat/animal products. I enjoy a locally raised, grass fed steak every Sunday for lunch, grilled/smoked at the in-laws. I also have really bumped up my fish consumption and now eat it 4-5 times a week (fish is a common thread among the blue zones and it's a nutritional powerhouse). And during cookout seasons this summer I'll even eat an occasional (-gasp-) hot dog.
Op, if you're interested in a nutrient rich diet I'd focus on upping your veggie/fruit, whole grains, beans etc. Add things to your diet-that's a great place to start.1 -
Keep in mind that @willnorton did not say he was currently low carb - but that he has been "low carb for years." Perhaps he has changed?
It depends on a person's definition of "carb." Some define carbs as bread, pasta, etc. aka processed carbs.
I, personally, lean more toward a gluten-free vegan diet: mostly plant-based with some oats, quinoa, squash, sweet potato thrown in. I also eat beans, sometimes (rarely) soy. I transitioned to vegan primarily for health/athletic reasons, but the more research I do and knowledge I gain about factory farming, make me turn away from meat even more.
There are so many excellent resources out there: The Rich Roll Podcast, many documentaries including Cowspiracy and What the Health, Dr. Garth Davis, Dr. Michael Klaper, Dr. Gregor as the OP mentioned.
Congrats on exploring this journey!0 -
DiannaOnMaui wrote: »Keep in mind that @willnorton did not say he was currently low carb - but that he has been "low carb for years." Perhaps he has changed?
It depends on a person's definition of "carb." Some define carbs as bread, pasta, etc. aka processed carbs.
"Carb" has a definition. It doesn't just mean something else if someone wants it to.
But I don't think anyone was saying willnorton couldn't be low carb, just commenting that it must be challenging. He might define low carb as under 40% or some such too (which IMO could be challenging enough with a vegan diet, but obviously it's do-able).1 -
DiannaOnMaui wrote: »It depends on a person's definition of "carb." Some define carbs as bread, pasta, etc. aka processed carbs.
I define "carb" as "a dog who won't fetch" which means I'm keto by definition.
I'll be right back, I need to go get another chocolate cookie.3 -
Healthy4lyfe419 wrote: »I recently stumbled upon the book "How Not To Die" written by Michael Gregor and it provided a whole new viewpoint on food for me. Even before I started reading, I was considering eating less meat and maybe going vegetarian. However, I was talking to my mom about it the other day and she is completely against it. She believes that it is not a meal without meat. What do you guys think? Is meat all that bad? Right now I eat about 6-8 ounces a day to get my protein ( 2 eggs in the morning, 3 oz. chicken for lunch, and 3oz. beef/chicken for dinner).
I've been vegetarian (ovo lacto) for 43 years - since I was 18. It's a way of eating that one can do, and achieve adequate nutrition, in most of the first world, or in other cultures where vegetarian eating is common. In other contexts, it's tougher.
Even in our world, it's a little more difficult than being an omnivore. It has social complexities (none insurmountable) like how to handle dinner invitations from people who aren't vegetarian (among other things). It requires one to be a bit more conscious and conscientious in order to get solid nutrition, not only protein but certain B vitamins, just as examples.
None of these things is a huge roadblock; they're just things to be aware of. I know enough about vegan eating to say that these same factors would apply, some a little more stringently, but still not even remotely insurmountable.
However, the idea that eating meat per se is dangerous or evil strikes me as very odd. Humans nearly world-wide have been eating meat for literally tens of thousands of generations. We are well adapted to it. I don't see how it can be evil for us to express our nature, any more than it's evil for a polar bear to be non-vegetarian.
Yes, one can be concerned about modern means of meat production, the treatment of farm animals in mass agriculture, and that sort of thing. One can be concerned about the quality of modern meat: Hormones, how the animals' diets affect nutritional quality, the antibiotics, etc.. One can be concerned about the efficiency or inefficiency of meat as a protein source (in the sense that we may be using more nutritional resources and agricultural inputs than necessary to get that protein).
On the basis of those, or at pure whim, or because they don't like meat, people may reasonably choose to be vegetarian.
That's what I think.
(The one thing I totally don't understand is some few meat-eaters who think hunters are inherently brutes. Somehow, it's more decent and moral to (say) under-pay immigrants to slaughter your meat in appalling working conditions, after the animals have been confined in questionably-pleasant factory-farm environments, so that you can buy it guilt-free in a tidy plastic-wrapped tray at the grocery store, or in a logo-adorned paper packet of fried-up chicken bits? Uh, OK.)3 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I'm a vegetarian because I simply don't like meat. I think your mother has the right idea that protein is important, but that protein doesn't have to come from meat.
I'm very particular about hitting my protein goals, and like other posters mentioned above, I also use Beyond Meat products. Even my meat eating husband and son like them. But most of my protein comes from beans and grains, cottage cheese, and Greek yogurt.
If you dislike meat, why eat something that's supposed to taste just like it?
It's like me disliking olives, but then eating little balls of olive flavored tofu. These things seem contradictory to me.
Viscerally, speaking as a multi-decade vegetarian, I don't get that, either. Fake meat is gross, IMO - not tasty. Not tasty in the abstract, and not even as tasty as meat.
(I'm not talking about decent food-stuff that's just made into a patty shape and called a burger or the like; I'm talking about the intentional meat-imitations - fake bacon, fake chicken, fake beef.)
However, I have to recognize that I never much liked meat, so seeking fakes makes no sense for me. Some people who give up meat for ethical or religious reasons think meat is tasty, or think they need to feed their friends or kids something meat-like for essentially social reasons, or they are used to conventional recipes that center on meat. They buy fake meat. Shrug.
Who cares? Just don't make me eat it and expect me to like it.0
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